Should there be a Medium Armor High Health class?

[Jski.6180]

> @"VocalThought.9835" said:

> > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > @"VocalThought.9835" said:

> > > > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > > All classes should have medium armor and medium health its kind of silly that the vary of hp / def is still in the game even though the reason for such effects are long gone as in the old trait point system that had hp def build into it to where some classes would get more from there hp line that where low hp and high hp classes would get a lot less.

> > >

> > > If every class had the same health and armor, than that would change the theme and balance of the classes, wouldn't it?

> >

> > How would that change the theme? A class is tankly or glass though its gear combo build more then any thing else. By letting all classes have the same hp / armor you would get away from class just simply getting free hp / armor over other classes that done there by letting them build more glassly. In an odd way the high tankly classes though the current hp / def system are more able to go glassly then the lower hp / def making them more likely to build tankly.

> >

> >

>

> These class didn't start with nor will end with GW2. All of these are traditional archetypes throughout the fantasy lore. Warrior/Fighters or Paladins always had Heavy Plate or Chainmail, Thieves or Rangers / Rouges wore medium/ Leather Armor, and Scholars/Mages wore robes/ Light Armor. One doesn't just and change a whole 100 years of story telling and mythical lore for nothing without expecting a major shift in continuity. Even in games that allow changes, its explained and put in a slightly different box.

 

Right but evasion is part of armor class high armor would also make you have less ability to make hits less impactful. As well as wepon classes do very the dmg they do plate vs leather vs cloth.

[Agrippa Oculus.3726]

> @"VocalThought.9835" said:

> > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> > > @"VocalThought.9835" said:

> > > > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > > > @"VocalThought.9835" said:

> > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > > > > All classes should have medium armor and medium health its kind of silly that the vary of hp / def is still in the game even though the reason for such effects are long gone as in the old trait point system that had hp def build into it to where some classes would get more from there hp line that where low hp and high hp classes would get a lot less.

> > > > >

> > > > > If every class had the same health and armor, than that would change the theme and balance of the classes, wouldn't it?

> > > >

> > > > How would that change the theme? A class is tankly or glass though its gear combo build more then any thing else. By letting all classes have the same hp / armor you would get away from class just simply getting free hp / armor over other classes that done there by letting them build more glassly. In an odd way the high tankly classes though the current hp / def system are more able to go glassly then the lower hp / def making them more likely to build tankly.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > These class didn't start with nor will end with GW2. All of these are traditional archetypes throughout the fantasy lore. Warrior/Fighters or Paladins always had Heavy Plate or Chainmail, Thieves or Rangers / Rouges wore medium/ Leather Armor, and Scholars/Mages wore robes/ Light Armor. One doesn't just and change a whole 100 years of story telling and mythical lore for nothing without expecting a major shift in continuity. Even in games that allow changes, its explained and put in a slightly different box.

> >

> > You both are absolutely right that it's a very old concept, indeed _thematically_ tied to the classic archetypes you described.

> > But gameplaywise there's imo some real big flaws on how ANet has implemented an arbitrary system tied to both AR _and_ HP! Sure, you'd obviously expect more Armor Rating / Defence on a full plated body armor worn by a frontline archetype (like a warrior) than a mesmer in the backline wearing nothing more than a nightgown. But Health, well, I don't see any thematical or even logical reasoning behind the system that is in place now (i.e. it's not like something far more logical like: if you wear Heavy Amor, you move slower: I'm happy that's not in the game, btw. It would hurt the game a lot!).

> > I mean take the Guardian, by new people often seen as a Paladin archetype. Yes you would expect them to have sturdy armor, but no, I would never expect them to have the lowest base health pool out there ... Or a Necromancer ... it's in the name even: death should be it's specialty, and it is the furthest away from it with the largest health pool out there!

> >

> > There's only gameplay reasons why they have **set** differences in Health Pools, which leads to lesser choice once you've chosen your class, and the stigmas that come with it in the community. So, _I'm_ a real advocate of removing those base health pool differences. (Again, combined with an extensive balance pass!).

> > Armor Rating is a different story. Yea, you could set those to one and the same AR for all classes, I don't think it would actually hurt the game that much (probably even improve it), but like mentioned above, this one is thematically **far** more tied to these classic archetypes. It's somewhat comparable to the whole idea of wielding a shield, but not getting extra defence from it. It just feels a bit weird.

>

> Think of it as training and efficiency. If you're a mage in heavy armor, not only are you not trained to Fight in that armor, you don't have the prowess need to cast your sophisticated spells. Warriors don't fight in non heavy armor because it makes no sense not to.

 

Yea, but what has that to do with Health? I agree it has a lot to do with Armor, but the base health system in GW2 is just arbitrary and only serves gameplay elements (not thematic and/or lore, etc.).

[Virdo.1540]

Imo, the healthpool doesnt say alot. In the medium armor class, ranger and engineer both are extremely tanky classes that dont need an big healthpool in order to be tankier than classes like warrior or necro.

 

What i would prefer more is to make a gap between the armor types itself, not inside them.

Like Warrior, Rev and Guard have big health, Ranger engi & thief mediocre etc.

But then make it like Heavy armor have one dodge; medium armor has 2 & light armor has one dodge and something else (like immunities from Ele and Mesmer & shroud from necro)

[Kodama.6453]

> @"Jski.6180" said:

> > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> > > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > > @"VocalThought.9835" said:

> > > > > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > > > All classes should have medium armor and medium health its kind of silly that the vary of hp / def is still in the game even though the reason for such effects are long gone as in the old trait point system that had hp def build into it to where some classes would get more from there hp line that where low hp and high hp classes would get a lot less.

> > > >

> > > > If every class had the same health and armor, than that would change the theme and balance of the classes, wouldn't it?

> > >

> > > How would that change the theme? A class is tankly or glass though its gear combo build more then any thing else. By letting all classes have the same hp / armor you would get away from class just simply getting free hp / armor over other classes that done there by letting them build more glassly. In an odd way the high tankly classes though the current hp / def system are more able to go glassly then the lower hp / def making them more likely to build tankly.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Changing Armor, would definitely change the theme of a class imo. It also stems back to GW1, where it played a significant role in gameplay (and thematically as well).

> >

> > But again, those base health pool differences in GW2 has been a really strange and arbitrary decision from ANet and imo, I can't see any real thematic and/or lore reasons why there are differences between classes like that. (Except for maybe one class: the Daredevil). It only somewhat affects the gameplay, and imo is far less of a factor now, than it it used to be back in 2012.

> > A good time to level those health pools to one and the same base pool! Obviously, combined with a well extensive balance patch which most of us have been waiting for, for a long time now.

>

> No... the theme of the class comes from its wepon effects and its F1-5 if armor played that big of an roll then it would of too been changed with the trait line update.

>

> And that thing thing the armor / hp system is an hold over from an much older system where you got most of your power hp armor etc.. from your build not your gear. This was balanced for what the class would use (some classes would have a hard time getting hp from the trait lines and good dmg but they had high base hp / def to start with.) Now we lost all of the theme base for trait lines in way of hp / def but we still have this out dated hp / def armor class system.

 

This is kinda ignoring the skill sets the different classes have access to, tho.

 

Thief, for example, has a low health pool because they have alot of active defenses in their skills. Evades, stealth, tons of mobility, etc.

Necromancer is on the other side of the spectrum, they have very little active defense. Low mobility, no blocks, no evades, no stealth. Having a large health pool and healing are the only thing they have here.

 

You can apply the same logic to other classes. Guardian has many blocks and protective boons.

Elementalist has alot of mobility and literally always access to additional healing regardless of the build thanks to water magic.

 

They even applied the logic to an elite spec with scrapper. Scrapper adds quite alot of defense to the engineer, with the rework it got a bit counterbalanced by giving scrapper a vitality malus in the minor traits. So if you get through their defense, then they are a bit easier to burst down.

[Jski.6180]

> @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> > > > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > > > @"VocalThought.9835" said:

> > > > > > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > > > > > All classes should have medium armor and medium health its kind of silly that the vary of hp / def is still in the game even though the reason for such effects are long gone as in the old trait point system that had hp def build into it to where some classes would get more from there hp line that where low hp and high hp classes would get a lot less.

> > > > >

> > > > > If every class had the same health and armor, than that would change the theme and balance of the classes, wouldn't it?

> > > >

> > > > How would that change the theme? A class is tankly or glass though its gear combo build more then any thing else. By letting all classes have the same hp / armor you would get away from class just simply getting free hp / armor over other classes that done there by letting them build more glassly. In an odd way the high tankly classes though the current hp / def system are more able to go glassly then the lower hp / def making them more likely to build tankly.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Changing Armor, would definitely change the theme of a class imo. It also stems back to GW1, where it played a significant role in gameplay (and thematically as well).

> > >

> > > But again, those base health pool differences in GW2 has been a really strange and arbitrary decision from ANet and imo, I can't see any real thematic and/or lore reasons why there are differences between classes like that. (Except for maybe one class: the Daredevil). It only somewhat affects the gameplay, and imo is far less of a factor now, than it it used to be back in 2012.

> > > A good time to level those health pools to one and the same base pool! Obviously, combined with a well extensive balance patch which most of us have been waiting for, for a long time now.

> >

> > No... the theme of the class comes from its wepon effects and its F1-5 if armor played that big of an roll then it would of too been changed with the trait line update.

> >

> > And that thing thing the armor / hp system is an hold over from an much older system where you got most of your power hp armor etc.. from your build not your gear. This was balanced for what the class would use (some classes would have a hard time getting hp from the trait lines and good dmg but they had high base hp / def to start with.) Now we lost all of the theme base for trait lines in way of hp / def but we still have this out dated hp / def armor class system.

>

> This is kinda ignoring the skill sets the different classes have access to, tho.

>

> Thief, for example, has a low health pool because they have alot of active defenses in their skills. Evades, stealth, tons of mobility, etc.

> Necromancer is on the other side of the spectrum, they have very little active defense. Low mobility, no blocks, no evades, no stealth. Having a large health pool and healing are the only thing they have here.

>

> You can apply the same logic to other classes. Guardian has many blocks and protective boons.

> Elementalist has alot of mobility and literally always access to additional healing regardless of the build thanks to water magic.

>

> They even applied the logic to an elite spec with scrapper. Scrapper adds quite alot of defense to the engineer, with the rework it got a bit counterbalanced by giving scrapper a vitality malus in the minor traits. So if you get through their defense, then they are a bit easier to burst down.

 

Why dose a high armor high hp class like war get a take 0 effect? Why dose a high armor class get blocks like gurd? Why dose a mid hp class high armor class rev get dmg taken becomes healing?

 

That the point classes have build in def with skills and passive effect that has NOTHING to do with there armor and hp so the only thing the hp / armor difference dose is unbalanced the classes all the more and makes things way over complex to balance.