Veprovina.4876 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 > @"Astyrah.4015" said: > > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > With a fully ascended lvl 80 character and a player that knows what to expect in there and has mastered all the paths - sure. > > not just that, you also have to build specifically for a dungeon run you're doing, so that means playing around with your traits/build a bit and carrying and swapping around multiple armour sets depending on what you're facing. > > and also i think some explorable paths are basically impossible to do solo even if you use portals or rewinder (atleast as intended/without exploits) like the laser room in CoE where you need to interact with 5 consoles at the same time > > this is not something a completely new player can do or even manage Exactly! And i didn't even think of the multiple people mechanics, like, yeah those alone would prevent progress in some paths. So people saying the dungeons can be done in 6 minutes... Yeah, not really... :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungo Zen.9364 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 > @"artcreator.4859" said: > It's just too easy, been playing with new people and they wanted to quit due to the first leveling maps, its just a steam roll, walk up, press 1 on key board, move on, It's a great game, but man the level of quality from the new stuff and the old is massive, almost 2 different games. love the game though and looking forward to next xpac, hopefully it can fix this so the game can have a better future. Combat in this game is only part of this game. There is a wealth of stories and world development that the game drives you towards right from the start of your character. This world immersion might not be for everyone but, if you aren't paying attention to the stories being told then you might be missing out on one of the most enjoyable parts of the game. For a lot of newer players I have met or brought into the game the combat was irrelevant to why they kept playing, but rather the connection to the stories, characters and locations was the drive to keep logging in. I can appreciate this might not be the world for everyone to explore, it would be a shame if a game was too easy to play to enjoy the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asum.4960 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 > @"Oxstar.7643" said: > That is why I enjoyed taking on champions by myself and stuff like that. There are plenty of things in the leveling maps that is actually hard if there isn't already people there. My experience is actually the opposite. The average OW player scales up content more with their presence than they contribute, effectively just making me get hit harder and have to do more total damage (or stopping constantly and taking extra hits to ress). That's part of my critique of the game coddling it's players way too much, especially the outdated core experience - as it just completely removes the incentive for players to improve to overcome hurdles, which has progressed to a point where having other players around in the OW is actually a tangible detriment (at least for the proficient player). > @"kharmin.7683" said: > Not every game is for everyone. It simply cannot happen. There are many games I've tried and found the early experience to be more difficult than I would like to the point where it started to become more of a chore than entertainment. I didn't go to those forums and complain about the difficulty and/or ask for changes to it to suit my preference; rather, I left and found other games that more ably fit my gaming entertainment needs. > > Clearly, not every new player is turned away by the early parts of GW2 -- I see new players all of the time in higher than 1-15 zones. The thing is GW2 used to be a lot harder at launch and through it's prime. Running around self-buffed with 25 Might, Fury (and some cases Quickness) was utterly unthinkable at launch. Healing was more limited, damage much lower. Powerful open world options like the Diviner Stat set or Firework Runes didn't exist. Elite Specs weren't a thing. Many skills had longer cooldowns, less or or no cleave at all and so on. One little example, Ranger's Maul went from a 6 second Cooldown, single Target 300 base Damage ability, with a 1.1 Power coefficient and a Minor Bleed at 150 range at launch; to a 700 base Damage Ability, with a 1.75 Power coefficient, with extra Vulnerability, 5 Target nuke at 220 range at a 4 second Cooldown - for which, if that wasn't enough, an instant CD reset was added to Hilt Bash, which, together with the increase to Might, Fury and Vulnerability access, basically increased it's damage potential by sheer tenfold, leading to the little engaging oneshot gameplay we have today. OW, at GW2's peak, was actually a lot more difficult and engaging. The content, both numerically and design wise just has not at all kept up with the massive increase in efficacy and variation of player tools, let alone the increase of skill at the game for those who bothered to learn it's mechanics, old and new alike. The majority of mobs being literally oneshot by players wasn't a conscious design decision, nor what attracted many of us to the game initially (besides coming from GW1). It's not that the game wasn't designed for us, much of it's content just became outdated and obsolete over time, that being the new player/learning experience is now largely responsible for the harmfully massive skill gaps and Anet's struggle with creating and maintaining widely appealing content avenues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moony.5780 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 > @"Asum.4960" said: > > @"Oxstar.7643" said: > > That is why I enjoyed taking on champions by myself and stuff like that. There are plenty of things in the leveling maps that is actually hard if there isn't already people there. > > My experience is actually the opposite. The average OW player scales up content more with their presence than they contribute, effectively just making me get hit harder and have to do more total damage (or stopping constantly and taking extra hits to ress). > That's part of my critique of the game coddling it's players way too much, especially the outdated core experience - as it just completely removes the incentive for players to improve to overcome hurdles, which has progressed to a point where having other players around in the OW is actually a tangible detriment (at least for the proficient player). > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > Not every game is for everyone. It simply cannot happen. There are many games I've tried and found the early experience to be more difficult than I would like to the point where it started to become more of a chore than entertainment. I didn't go to those forums and complain about the difficulty and/or ask for changes to it to suit my preference; rather, I left and found other games that more ably fit my gaming entertainment needs. > > > > Clearly, not every new player is turned away by the early parts of GW2 -- I see new players all of the time in higher than 1-15 zones. > > The thing is GW2 used to be a lot harder at launch and through it's prime. > Running around self-buffed with 25 Might, Fury (and some cases Quickness) was utterly unthinkable at launch. Healing was more limited, damage much lower. Powerful open world options like the Diviner Stat set or Firework Runes didn't exist. Elite Specs weren't a thing. Many skills had longer cooldowns, less or or no cleave at all and so on. > > One little example, Ranger's Maul went from a 6 second Cooldown, single Target 300 base Damage ability, with a 1.1 Power coefficient and a Minor Bleed at 150 range at launch; to a 700 base Damage Ability, with a 1.75 Power coefficient, with extra Vulnerability, 5 Target nuke at 220 range at a 4 second Cooldown - for which, if that wasn't enough, an instant CD reset was added to Hilt Bash, which, together with the increase to Might, Fury and Vulnerability access, basically increased it's damage potential by sheer tenfold, leading to the little engaging oneshot gameplay we have today. > > OW, at GW2's peak, was actually a lot more difficult and engaging. The content, both numerically and design wise just has not at all kept up with the massive increase in efficacy and variation of player tools, let alone the increase of skill at the game for those who bothered to learn it's mechanics, old and new alike. > > The majority of mobs being literally oneshot by players wasn't a conscious design decision, nor what attracted many of us to the game initially (besides coming from GW1). > It's not that the game wasn't designed for us, much of it's content just became outdated and obsolete over time, that being the new player/learning experience is now largely responsible for the harmfully massive skill gaps and Anet's struggle with creating and maintaining widely appealing content avenues. i wish i could give u 100 Thumbs Up. I dont know why some people think its normal to 1 shot stuff.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxstar.7643 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 It isn't. If you are 1-shotting anything then you are either way overleveled for that area or have incredibly good gear. None of these applies to new players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moony.5780 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 > @"Oxstar.7643" said: > It isn't. If you are 1-shotting anything then you are either way overleveled for that area or have incredibly good gear. None of these applies to new players. I have a lvl 29 char with lvl 25 gear (full). And i kill everything in 2 or 3 autoattacks only. Its something to buy for 25 silver in the trading post... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxstar.7643 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 That sounds to me like you're still in the starting zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moony.5780 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 im at the lvl 25-35 area above lions arch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moony.5780 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 So..just tested different monster...they r down in 1 (3 hits) - 2 (6 hits) autoattack chains... Well to be fair thats not 1 shoting x) (yet, because im not lvl 80 and not geared).....but its still super hard for me to play with my friend and not kill everything first :/ i guess i just keep bad gear for now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 If it's not enough of a challenge, you can always try zones leveled higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moony.5780 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 But its too hard for my friend :< i wish there was a way we both can play where he wants and i dont get bored or i dont steal his kills...but i guess since its impossible to make my lvl lower, i can just wear bad gear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asum.4960 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 > @"Oxstar.7643" said: > It isn't. If you are 1-shotting anything then you are either way overleveled for that area or have incredibly good gear. None of these applies to new players. For one, the design intention of the game with for example the downscaling feature was so content would, although easier, never be entirely invalidated in engagement, and secondly, >90% of mobs in core being literally one-shotable or to be killed by holding down Auto Attack without any challenge is indicative of the issue that many, including the OP have witnessed, where even if level, gear and experience appropriate, core especially still hasn't kept up with powercreep and design, becoming way too easy - if not for some to enjoy, at the very least for all to learn how to actually play, build and gear an effective character. Which the early to mid game is supposed to teach in an RPG. Suggesting for players to actively sabotage themselves (as I've seen plenty in these forums) by taking off gear/traits (which is as unfun as it is counter-intuitive and -productive) or seeking out zones which the game's design literally tells them in numbers they aren't supposed to go to yet, just to have a normal experience of actually fighting mobs, learning how to play, reading their skills and traits and combining them in a sensible way is quite backwards. That's an issue that ripples all the way back to how perceptively hard Expansions, all the way to even Raids are, and how much Anet struggles with content delivery that's suited to both players who got by for hundreds if not thousands of hours of content with literally just holding down Auto Attack or pressing buttons randomly off cooldown (doing ~5k dps), and people capable of 60k+ damage per second bursts. Without a proper teaching experience to close that massive gap, this game has become impossible to develop broadly engaging content for. That's ultimately not good for anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 > @"moony.5780" said: > But its too hard for my friend :< i wish there was a way we both can play where he wants and i dont get bored or i dont steal his kills...but i guess since its impossible to make my lvl lower, i can just wear bad gear This doesn't seem like a GW2 issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blude.6812 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 > @"moony.5780" said: > But its too hard for my friend :< i wish there was a way we both can play where he wants and i dont get bored or i dont steal his kills...but i guess since its impossible to make my lvl lower, i can just wear bad gear Can't be hard according to the OP, must be the friend and the time honored 'l-t-p' comment is called for. (P.S. that's sarcasm btw). The OPs statement is not correct (imho) and is an simple over exaggeration on their part for some reason I can't appreciate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moony.5780 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > @"moony.5780" said: > > But its too hard for my friend :< i wish there was a way we both can play where he wants and i dont get bored or i dont steal his kills...but i guess since its impossible to make my lvl lower, i can just wear bad gear > > This doesn't seem like a GW2 issue. What is it then :) ? At Launch it was a selling point that vetrans can play with new player and both have fun. So now im playing this game for 9 years and my friend started 1 month ago....and im struggeling not to steal the kills from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 > @"moony.5780" said: > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > @"moony.5780" said: > > > But its too hard for my friend :< i wish there was a way we both can play where he wants and i dont get bored or i dont steal his kills...but i guess since its impossible to make my lvl lower, i can just wear bad gear > > > > This doesn't seem like a GW2 issue. > > What is it then :) ? > At Launch it was a selling point that vetrans can play with new player and both have fun. So now im playing this game for 9 years and my friend started 1 month ago....and im struggeling not to steal the kills from him. You have 9 years experience. Your friend has 1 month. I fail to see how this is a GW2 problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moony.5780 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > @"moony.5780" said: > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > @"moony.5780" said: > > > > But its too hard for my friend :< i wish there was a way we both can play where he wants and i dont get bored or i dont steal his kills...but i guess since its impossible to make my lvl lower, i can just wear bad gear > > > > > > This doesn't seem like a GW2 issue. > > > > What is it then :) ? > > At Launch it was a selling point that vetrans can play with new player and both have fun. So now im playing this game for 9 years and my friend started 1 month ago....and im struggeling not to steal the kills from him. > > You have 9 years experience. Your friend has 1 month. I fail to see how this is a GW2 problem. ok.....then i gona accept the very sad fact that experienced player and new player cant play together and both have fun :( I really thought downscaling excists that higher lvl player can play with lower lvl player together..... Well..if downscaling was adjustable then it could solve many problems and all player can be playing happily hand in hand.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 Fun is very subjective. I have over 7 years in GW2 and enjoy playing with my friends with much less experience. /shrug Downscaling does allow for what you state, but it only accounts for mechanics and not player experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moony.5780 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 > @"kharmin.7683" said: > Fun is very subjective. I have over 7 years in GW2 and enjoy playing with my friends with much less experience. /shrug > > Downscaling does allow for what you state, but it only accounts for mechanics and not player experience. but im killing everything in 3 autoattacks @__@ thats not even skills, knowledge or experience....it take a lot of practice and effort to actually hit everything only 1 time and not more, if there is a wave of 5 monster running to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 > @"moony.5780" said: > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > @"moony.5780" said: > > > But its too hard for my friend :< i wish there was a way we both can play where he wants and i dont get bored or i dont steal his kills...but i guess since its impossible to make my lvl lower, i can just wear bad gear > > > > This doesn't seem like a GW2 issue. > > What is it then :) ? > At Launch it was a selling point that vetrans can play with new player and both have fun. So now im playing this game for 9 years and my friend started 1 month ago....and im struggeling not to steal the kills from him. What exactly is your friend doing so wrong that you are stealing all the kills? Low level gear isn't doing much of a difference. Maybe you should inform your friend on how to use their skills better, or have your friend use a ranged weapon, if you are using a ranged weapon and kill all the mobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moony.5780 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > @"moony.5780" said: > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > @"moony.5780" said: > > > > But its too hard for my friend :< i wish there was a way we both can play where he wants and i dont get bored or i dont steal his kills...but i guess since its impossible to make my lvl lower, i can just wear bad gear > > > > > > This doesn't seem like a GW2 issue. > > > > What is it then :) ? > > At Launch it was a selling point that vetrans can play with new player and both have fun. So now im playing this game for 9 years and my friend started 1 month ago....and im struggeling not to steal the kills from him. > > What exactly is your friend doing so wrong that you are stealing all the kills? Low level gear isn't doing much of a difference. Maybe you should inform your friend on how to use their skills better, or have your friend use a ranged weapon, if you are using a ranged weapon and kill all the mobs. I think hes doing nothing wrong. He just plays the game for 1 month only like 1h per day max. I want him to learn the game experience everything in his pace. If i see monster, i just attack them. If hes not seeing them because he runs somewhere else i follow him...then he see them and kill them. But during that time i should not attack any of the monster, because they r already at 70% HP because i attacked them once. (and each of my autoattacks do 20-30% dmg) To be honest...the greatest fun we had at the grawl champ in the charr starter area...i got down like 4 times and he felt like a hero rezzing me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxstar.7643 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 > @"Asum.4960" said: > > @"Oxstar.7643" said: > > It isn't. If you are 1-shotting anything then you are either way overleveled for that area or have incredibly good gear. None of these applies to new players. > >90% of mobs in core being literally one-shotable or to be killed by holding down Auto Attack Again. This isn't happening. I have 9 80's. I have played since closed beta. And I play in both core and expansion zones. Trust me - everyone going around in meh gear and 1-shotting all the mobs with auto attack is not what's going on. Could you argue the game is too easy if you don't go out of your way to seek the difficult stuff? Depends on your level of skill. GW2 isn't made to be a hard game. Not as its default setting anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy.6850 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 As someone who played mmorpg before (DAoC, WoW, some FF14), I most say I find GW2 open world content very exciting. Im about two weeks in and my experience is that GW2 is actually engaging and challening in a way some other mmorpg have evolved away from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarcShriek.5829 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 It surprises me that when so many people complain about the game being too difficult that Anet is losing people because it's too easy. There's no way to win this debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moony.5780 Posted February 25, 2021 Share Posted February 25, 2021 > @"DarcShriek.5829" said: > It surprises me that when so many people complain about the game being too difficult that Anet is losing people because it's too easy. There's no way to win this debate. only if everyone could choose their dificulty....so like get like -3 lvl downscaled with a bit higher rewards or normal gameplay..or even +2 lvl higher with less rewards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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