[Reminder] Firebrand is broken

[Arheundel.6451]

You nerfed scourges...**but you didn't touch firebrand** even though I made a thread before you could apply a senseless nerf to a spec that on his own can't bite...instead you go nerf this build and leave firebreand support untouched! **JUST WHYYYY????**

 

You first nerf druid and tempest support beecause it was deemded too much...then you introduce firebrand ...god, a firebrand makes his team virtually unkillable, just take a look at your AT class representation how can you be so blind?

[kKagari.6804]

They really aren't. Thief and Mesmers can hard counter the bunker builds pretty easily.

[Amityel.5324]

firebrand is strong vs condis but weak vs power spikes since no toughness, also it deals no dmg its pure support role

[Sismis.5390]

Look its clear what the comrade mentioned up there thief and mesmer can counter it.BUT lets not forget thx to very few skilled of them 90% of the games it will not happen.Players aren't that good lately have seen in matches.Thanks to that MM cant prevent class stacking still probelm!!And other 1000 issues we going to have and have.So we will have matches where we just get steamrolled in this Aoe Spamm festival.People will continue to experience awful match-ups and games what will lead to frustration and drive more people away. Currently its happening and will continue another problem why it will create more complains on forum and strange suggestion while we cant have proper match up.Cause its right now just a steamroll on the 1 way down for one side.

[kKagari.6804]

> @Sismis.5390 said:

> Look its clear what the comrade mentioned up there thief and mesmer can counter it.BUT lets not forget thx to very few skilled of them 90% of the games it will not happen.Players aren't that good lately have seen in matches.Thanks to that MM cant prevent class stacking still probelm!!And other 1000 issues we going to have and have.So we will have matches where we just get steamrolled in this Aoe Spamm festival.People will continue to experience awful match-ups and games what will lead to frustration and drive more people away. Currently its happening and will continue another problem why it will create more complains on forum and strange suggestion while we cant have proper match up.Cause its right now just a steamroll on the 1 way down for one side.

 

Game shouldn't be balanced based on lowest common denominator skill levels. Thief has the tools to easily counter firebrands, it is simply a L2P issue if certain thieves can't do it.

[Sismis.5390]

Yes but we have an problem here that you cannot get that 10-5% good players in matches to sort things out with some match up teams.Match making is just not working simple as that.We can discuss L2p issues all days in the future.Have seen it in game what is going on and it so bad that trowing words around or some players get in rage does not help at all.We literary reached some point where below average skill players are higher in number then the average or above.How you intend to balance that?From playing i get feeling i get put in a team vs team filled with more good players where 1-2 of us has to carry 3 bad players to win.While my team does everything to trow the win for enemy.

[R E F L H E X.8413]

Warriors should be able to easily pressure down a firebrand not taking too long no matter which tomes he has or is on. Firebrands can also go down easily once they get target called. People commonly say damage is too high support has to be strong or its completely useless.

 

Plus aside from being on a completely setup team the firebrand in random matches will be put in situations where he has to getsomeone off a point which he cannot do. Bunkering a point 1v1s that you dont own makes no sense to do and you will end up in that situation with not much else to do. Celestial is too weak on firebrand to force someone off a point, and its weaker in healing so theres no sense in running a celestial one atm, unless hes some kind of quickness spammer that gets heals when he buffs then the toughness comes into play since its more self bunkerish instead of support for team however still requires a team to be effective for self heals.

[Kuya.6495]

Maybe it could use a shave somewhere but running bunker fb in solo queue is pretty much a coin toss. If your team seeks you out for support, then you can potentially carry that match, but if they ignore you, then there isn't much you can do to win that match unless you get lucky enough to have 2 people fight you on a point you own and they're not a combination of a thf + another competent dps class.

[kKagari.6804]

I duo'ed with an extremely good thief last season who carried the thief in the way thieves carried, this took some pressure off the team fights in the late game but as a bunker FB I ensured all the opening team fights were won by my team by a landslide. Tanked most of the pre-nerf scourge pressure easily. Spellbreakers could take me in 1v1 eventually but in a teamfight they had no chance. It was extremely cruisey.

 

Until I bumped into Chaith. Lol.

[Shocky.7356]

It´s not op.

[Sismis.5390]

Like i said before we have other problem to deal with and that is below average skilled players!What consist more then 80% of them!!!Cause that and match making cannot work and you will see this and that class coming out on each different match to be OP!And you see its already here on forums people spaming OP this and that and so on.How can i enjoy a even balanced match where there is NONE.The game is just a steamroll from either my team or enemy....

[reukies.6418]

> @kKagari.6804 said:

> They really aren't. Thief and Mesmers can hard counter the bunker builds pretty easily.

 

Anything with range could easily counter scourge. That didn't make it balanced. You're basically saying, if there are no thieves or mesmers in you team and they have FB, gg.

[Mikeskies.1536]

I'm not sure that Firebrand is OP. All you have to do is strip Aegis/use an unblockable and they die pretty quickly.

[Darknicrofia.2604]

core radiance guard can kill FB

power herald can kill FB

all non-condi thief specs can kill FB

power mes can kill FB.

[Chaith.8256]

Firebrand not OK. It makes tempest support look completely sub-par. Shave Firebrand until it's on the same level as Tempest, then this magical thing called diversity will appear. Firebrand does everything Tempest can (besides Auras) and then some, with Aegis, Resistance, increased condition clear, increased healing taken from all sources buff (their personal healing etc.) and by far the biggest contributor to team success, stability for all in high volume. Firebrand personal survivability is not worse than tempest... I'd argue it's slightly better and doesn't rely on Invuln to decap itself.

 

If you've played any high tier ranked or AT's, monthly's, the perspective I'm coming from is pretty reinforced.

[Samnang.1879]

fb is easier to kill than rangers lol...

[Falan.1839]

The bunkerishness is not too extreme, since it can be bursted down (still probably the best bunker in the game right now) but the amount of support it can offer is clearly overtuned. It is also what raises Scourge from quite op to absolutely gamebreaking.

[ArthurDent.9538]

> @Darknicrofia.2604 said:

> core radiance guard can kill FB

> power herald can kill FB

> all non-condi thief specs can kill FB

> power mes can kill FB.

 

This may be true but the problem is none of them can survive in a teamfight long enough to really pressure the FB before a scourge accidentally kills them with AOE and you will almost never find a firebrand running around alone. Also I don't see power mes having enough sustained damage to bring down a competently played firebrand which will have enough stun-breaks/stability to avoid the one shot combos everytime.

[Sismis.5390]

> @Chaith.8256 said:

> Firebrand not OK. It makes tempest support look completely sub-par. Shave Firebrand until it's on the same level as Tempest, then this magical thing called diversity will appear. Firebrand does everything Tempest can (besides Auras) and then some, with Aegis, Resistance, increased condition clear, increased healing taken from all sources buff (their personal healing etc.) and by far the biggest contributor to team success, stability for all in high volume. Firebrand personal survivability is not worse than tempest... I'd argue it's slightly better and doesn't rely on Invuln to decap itself.

>

> If you've played any high tier ranked or AT's, monthly's, the perspective I'm coming from is pretty reinforced.

 

Yes but we have here a clash of worlds!The average - below average gamers with the 10% averages and above average skilled.That is the problem here we have the mass of below average skilled screaming what consists of 80% right of pvp.The current unranked and ranked is so horrible experience what creates these threads and complains.Starting to sound like a parrot here nobody pays attention when somebody writes something.Like somebody pulling few words out of context and replying their opinion on forums here.The Balance is going to be real miracle to get the game to favor the 80% of masses what goes into pvp instead the 20% rest what hopes for better.

[otto.5684]

> @Darknicrofia.2604 said:

> core radiance guard can kill FB

> power herald can kill FB

> all non-condi thief specs can kill FB

> power mes can kill FB.

 

Power warrior, power guardian and power Holo smith can kill FB as well.

 

I play core guardian mostly, and TBH I have not had that many issues against FB. Just cleave the point and push them out. They are susceptible to power spikes.

[Darknicrofia.2604]

FB is just a deeply flawed spec, it vomits out resistance/cleanses/healing/aegis to make up for the fact that it has awkward mechanics, no mobility and dies to any sort of power damage.

 

I'm all for tuning down the vomiting part, being able to invalidate 20+ condis in team fights every few seconds is broken as hell, but it needs QoL buffs (like tome swapping still having cast times) to make up for it.

[Bossun.2046]

Let me enjoy it s lil but longer pls. Love making my team immune to death ;-;

[Kuya.6495]

> @Chaith.8256 said:

> Firebrand not OK. It makes tempest support look completely sub-par. Shave Firebrand until it's on the same level as Tempest, then this magical thing called diversity will appear. Firebrand does everything Tempest can (besides Auras) and then some, with Aegis, Resistance, increased condition clear, increased healing taken from all sources buff (their personal healing etc.) and by far the biggest contributor to team success, stability for all in high volume. Firebrand personal survivability is not worse than tempest... I'd argue it's slightly better and doesn't rely on Invuln to decap itself.

>

> If you've played any high tier ranked or AT's, monthly's, the perspective I'm coming from is pretty reinforced.

 

what should be nerfed that puts fb on the same level as tempest but that maintains its own separate support niche?

 

I think fb's strength is condi cleanse but i don't think tempest has anything that makes it anti phys burst dps aside from having more projectile hate than fb.

[Darknicrofia.2604]

> @Kuya.6495 said:

> > @Chaith.8256 said:

> > Firebrand not OK. It makes tempest support look completely sub-par. Shave Firebrand until it's on the same level as Tempest, then this magical thing called diversity will appear. Firebrand does everything Tempest can (besides Auras) and then some, with Aegis, Resistance, increased condition clear, increased healing taken from all sources buff (their personal healing etc.) and by far the biggest contributor to team success, stability for all in high volume. Firebrand personal survivability is not worse than tempest... I'd argue it's slightly better and doesn't rely on Invuln to decap itself.

> >

> > If you've played any high tier ranked or AT's, monthly's, the perspective I'm coming from is pretty reinforced.

>

> what should be nerfed that puts fb on the same level as tempest but that maintains its own separate support niche?

>

> I think fb's strength is condi cleanse but i don't think tempest has anything that makes it anti phys burst dps aside from having more projectile hate than fb.

 

shocking aura is amazing at anti melee

[ArthurDent.9538]

> @Kuya.6495 said:

> > @Chaith.8256 said:

> > Firebrand not OK. It makes tempest support look completely sub-par. Shave Firebrand until it's on the same level as Tempest, then this magical thing called diversity will appear. Firebrand does everything Tempest can (besides Auras) and then some, with Aegis, Resistance, increased condition clear, increased healing taken from all sources buff (their personal healing etc.) and by far the biggest contributor to team success, stability for all in high volume. Firebrand personal survivability is not worse than tempest... I'd argue it's slightly better and doesn't rely on Invuln to decap itself.

> >

> > If you've played any high tier ranked or AT's, monthly's, the perspective I'm coming from is pretty reinforced.

>

> what should be nerfed that puts fb on the same level as tempest but that maintains its own separate support niche?

>

> I think fb's strength is condi cleanse but i don't think tempest has anything that makes it anti phys burst dps aside from having more projectile hate than fb.

 

Tempest doesn't have anyway to provide stability, resistance, quickness, or aegis to the team which are all extremely strong boons which firebrand can share large amounts of all of them. Toning down firebrand healing and cleansing across the board while still giving it a relative monopoly on those boons would put it better inline with tempest which focuses on mostly pure healing and cleansing.