Turk.5460 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 > @Sasajoe.1509 said: > & that is exactly why Anet needs to balance the hell out of this game if they want to keep tgeir customers (happy-content). > > I feel the same way as you. > > Every day i meet such cheezy builds in wvw & most of the times i win but whe i lose i get bitter not because i lost, but because i know that guy is inferior in skill & just exploits a broken mechanic. > > > Yesterday on my engi (i only solo roam as every class) i fought a condi daredevil & a soulbeast 1v2, the soulbeast was full zerker long bow xD while the DD was dire/trailblazer shortbow... (the 2 extremes we speak about) > > The several times we fought i always managed to kille the soul beast but the dd was too slippery & tanky > > When i finally managed to almost down him after i killed the sb, he just ran for the hills like there was no tomorrow xD. > > Can you immagine how bad these guys must be & they obviously knew it & roamed in a party because of that xD hhahah such pitty. > If this scenario actually happened, which is incredibly doubtful, your average player would not be complaining. They would be happy with the outcome of an outnumbered fight. Stories like this scream "I lost, but I'll pretend like I was winning, yet for some reason still complain." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasajoe.1509 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 > @Turk.5460 said: > > @Sasajoe.1509 said: > > > & that is exactly why Anet needs to balance the hell out of this game if they want to keep tgeir customers (happy-content). > > > > I feel the same way as you. > > > > Every day i meet such cheezy builds in wvw & most of the times i win but whe i lose i get bitter not because i lost, but because i know that guy is inferior in skill & just exploits a broken mechanic. > > > > > > Yesterday on my engi (i only solo roam as every class) i fought a condi daredevil & a soulbeast 1v2, the soulbeast was full zerker long bow xD while the DD was dire/trailblazer shortbow... (the 2 extremes we speak about) > > > > The several times we fought i always managed to kille the soul beast but the dd was too slippery & tanky > > > > When i finally managed to almost down him after i killed the sb, he just ran for the hills like there was no tomorrow xD. > > > > Can you immagine how bad these guys must be & they obviously knew it & roamed in a party because of that xD hhahah such pitty. > > > > If this scenario actually happened, which is incredibly doubtful, your average player would not be complaining. They would be happy with the outcome of an outnumbered fight. > > Stories like this scream "I lost, but I'll pretend like I was winning, yet for some reason still complain." Highly doubtful lol ? so you never 1v2d before ? seems plausible. Actually to be honest neither I nor anybody else really cares what you think nor what you comment because it's quite obvious that you try to belittle everyone's comments (unsuccessfully) & probably nobody else takes you seriously either as I was looking through the forums.. so don't bother replying to my comments. Anyway this actually happened & what I am not happy about, I commented already on my previous post as its still very valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takatsu.9416 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 > @Sasajoe.1509 said: > > @takatsu.9416 said: > > What you're talking about here is a result of power creep from the expansion elite specs especially. though core also had one shot, I actually remember it being better for roaming years ago. I don't think they can just reduce damage because anets real problem is trying to blur the gaps between the three game modes PvP wvw and pve. If you nerf damage across the board pve will suffer. And they seem reluctant to just make changes for PvP and wvw. > > Then they should separate the skills as it was in GW1 (& it was much much better there also with combining different classes) > > > > > Other thing is the elite specs get more powerful or versatile. Their design for tempest or scourge to be a support spec basically backfired and somehow they are the ones with most damage. Their design for versatility for the whole game is not at all possible to balance. > > > > There are all sorts of complicated entangled problems for the whole game when you dive into the subject. It's not just a matter of simply removing one shot builds. One shot doesn't come as a separate build. It is the culmination and enabling of how a player wants to build something with all of these factors. For example use of full zerk glass gear while using all offensive traitlines and sigils and runes. If you nerf base damage then everyone will have no choice in their trait lines and gear in order to deal enough damage. The sustain end of things is also due to specific player choices. > > Well they can simply change the skills that enable that particular combo to happen, that's pretty easy while leaving the rest as it is > > > > What you're talking about is anets design and also removing of player agency. I agree that for example in demo weekend with the deadeye even without glass gear or full design I could still crit 30k shots with one hit and not too much time. That seems to be ill designed. But if someone chooses to fully invest as full glass to do a 30k one shot then that becomes player choice. > > > > Well then the game balance will stay atrociously bad in this game as it progressively looses popularity... > Who would have figured a poorly balanced game won't would not make it to the competitive scene ? xD (thus attracting more new players to play the game) > > > There is a power creep ongoing. I think the only way to deal with it really is to increase everyone's base health pool stats so it's harder to just one shot. And it also makes sense with pve bc pve content in expansions and endgame gets increasingly more difficult. > > Again i think they should just separate completely the game modes, you can't have it all in one basket (not because i say so but because its simply impossible) > > I dont really get whats all the stubbornness about not wanting to separate the skills, when that's clearly what must be done to better the game. I for one would actually stop playing wvw or PvP if it's completely separate because to me they would be different games, I would also be playing different classes essentially, and may not have the same strategies. I like wvw because i can remain "in character" or feel like "myself" and play my style . I don't prefer PvP because it is slightly different to the build I created to be versatile in all the content I like to do. I don't have such fine control over all the detailed stafs. I like to play as me not as three different specs for three different games essentially if you're suggesting changes to skills and traits and all of it. Also even when you separate the three you are likely going to have the new balance issues. You'll find new ways of building that deals some ridiculous damage or some other mechanics that seems op then you'd have to nerf that. Once you nerf that there will likely be another mole to whack on its head. Like sustain builds for example. And all of it depends on player base response. Whatever seems slightly stronger more players gravitate towards it and then it will be meta and suddenly op because there is too much of something. It can actually be a slippery slope. There will never be a happy balance. Next you're asking for a tremendous resource investment from Anet. You'd need three separate balance teams and devs to build each mode as well. That is not realistic for them. If I look at wvw right now I actually see a good variety of classes, not looking at builds or strategy, maybe not all specs like HoT, core, or whatnot but I see basically all the classes there and most of them seem pretty strong in the hands of a good player. I was like essentially one shot by a power Soulbeast once at max range and somehow fumbled and failed to up a reflect - a moments mistake, and I am completely fine with that. I know my mistake. In all situations I've been able to know my mistake. I was one shot by a mesmer before and I know my mistake, I was distracted focused on another opponent and failed to glance at my back and I would've seen them coming. Funny enough I haven't been downed by a stealth melee thief as I'm always looking out for those though deadeye got me once similar as the ranger. And that's the other issue, are all of the complaints really objective? Half or however much percentage of these complaints are the player not being aware or self analyzing on how to improve their playskill or build for a counter etc. Like I said you can't one shot a tanky build, those players have chosen to invest in that to suit their play or maybe it's a response to meta. There is a response and a counter. Objectively you may say no one shot builds and I can respect it if you have serious points , but most of the complaints seem to come from personal frustration. does it come from you being unable to deal with them? How often have you been one shotted? What did you do in response? What was the mistake and situation at the moment? It's not just about class balance. If you ask me pit a one shot build against a tanky warrior and there you have class balance. The amount of complaints is not that objective and there is no way devs can design and balance according to many players who will jump ship for whatever is strong or have varying play skill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasajoe.1509 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 > @takatsu.9416 said: > > @Sasajoe.1509 said: > > > @takatsu.9416 said: > > > What you're talking about here is a result of power creep from the expansion elite specs especially. though core also had one shot, I actually remember it being better for roaming years ago. I don't think they can just reduce damage because anets real problem is trying to blur the gaps between the three game modes PvP wvw and pve. If you nerf damage across the board pve will suffer. And they seem reluctant to just make changes for PvP and wvw. > > > > Then they should separate the skills as it was in GW1 (& it was much much better there also with combining different classes) > > > > > > > > Other thing is the elite specs get more powerful or versatile. Their design for tempest or scourge to be a support spec basically backfired and somehow they are the ones with most damage. Their design for versatility for the whole game is not at all possible to balance. > > > > > > There are all sorts of complicated entangled problems for the whole game when you dive into the subject. It's not just a matter of simply removing one shot builds. One shot doesn't come as a separate build. It is the culmination and enabling of how a player wants to build something with all of these factors. For example use of full zerk glass gear while using all offensive traitlines and sigils and runes. If you nerf base damage then everyone will have no choice in their trait lines and gear in order to deal enough damage. The sustain end of things is also due to specific player choices. > > > > Well they can simply change the skills that enable that particular combo to happen, that's pretty easy while leaving the rest as it is > > > > > > What you're talking about is anets design and also removing of player agency. I agree that for example in demo weekend with the deadeye even without glass gear or full design I could still crit 30k shots with one hit and not too much time. That seems to be ill designed. But if someone chooses to fully invest as full glass to do a 30k one shot then that becomes player choice. > > > > > > > Well then the game balance will stay atrociously bad in this game as it progressively looses popularity... > > Who would have figured a poorly balanced game won't would not make it to the competitive scene ? xD (thus attracting more new players to play the game) > > > > > There is a power creep ongoing. I think the only way to deal with it really is to increase everyone's base health pool stats so it's harder to just one shot. And it also makes sense with pve bc pve content in expansions and endgame gets increasingly more difficult. > > > > Again i think they should just separate completely the game modes, you can't have it all in one basket (not because i say so but because its simply impossible) > > > > I dont really get whats all the stubbornness about not wanting to separate the skills, when that's clearly what must be done to better the game. > > I for one would actually stop playing wvw or PvP if it's completely separate because to me they would be different games, I would also be playing different classes essentially, and may not have the same strategies. I like wvw because i can remain "in character" or feel like "myself" and play my style . I don't prefer PvP because it is slightly different to the build I created to be versatile in all the content I like to do. I don't have such fine control over all the detailed stafs. I like to play as me not as three different specs for three different games essentially if you're suggesting changes to skills and traits and all of it. Also even when you separate the three you are likely going to have the new balance issues. You'll find new ways of building that deals some ridiculous damage or some other mechanics that seems op then you'd have to nerf that. Once you nerf that there will likely be another mole to whack on its head. Like sustain builds for example. And all of it depends on player base response. Whatever seems slightly stronger more players gravitate towards it and then it will be meta and suddenly op because there is too much of something. It can actually be a slippery slope. There will never be a happy balance. > > Next you're asking for a tremendous resource investment from Anet. You'd need three separate balance teams and devs to build each mode as well. That is not realistic for them. > > If I look at wvw right now I actually see a good variety of classes, not looking at builds or strategy, maybe not all specs like HoT, core, or whatnot but I see basically all the classes there and most of them seem pretty strong in the hands of a good player. I was like essentially one shot by a power Soulbeast once at max range and somehow fumbled and failed to up a reflect - a moments mistake, and I am completely fine with that. I know my mistake. In all situations I've been able to know my mistake. I was one shot by a mesmer before and I know my mistake, I was distracted focused on another opponent and failed to glance at my back and I would've seen them coming. Funny enough I haven't been downed by a stealth melee thief as I'm always looking out for those though deadeye got me once similar as the ranger. > > And that's the other issue, are all of the complaints really objective? Half or however much percentage of these complaints are the player not being aware or self analyzing on how to improve their playskill or build for a counter etc. Like I said you can't one shot a tanky build, those players have chosen to invest in that to suit their play or maybe it's a response to meta. There is a response and a counter. > > Objectively you may say no one shot builds and I can respect it if you have serious points , but most of the complaints seem to come from personal frustration. does it come from you being unable to deal with them? How often have you been one shotted? What did you do in response? What was the mistake and situation at the moment? It's not just about class balance. If you ask me pit a one shot build against a tanky warrior and there you have class balance. The amount of complaints is not that objective and there is no way devs can design and balance according to many players who will jump ship for whatever is strong or have varying play skill Oh I do know what you mean BUT one shot builds should not have been introduced in the 1st place, because they promote brain dead play: ''here just learn this rotation by heart & you will be able to down 1 guy who doesn't pay attention''. Dealing with those kind of build is fairly easy I just use dodge, blocks or reflects BUT the point is this doesn't change the fact that those kind of build don't promote thinking process like the one a player would have in a longer fight to try & outsmart the other guy, those one shot builds are essentially a 1-trick pony & that's all. Well in GW1 we had skills that were separated per game mode (mind you there we had thee factions expansion which was not the same but similar to the current wvw)& with all those separated skill it was perfectly fine, because the devs had the freedom to fine tune most of them according to game mode. (skills weren't THAT different as you try to exaggerate but instead were buffed for specific use in certain game mode - and not all of the skills were separate per game mode- some were the same in pve & pvp combat while the some which were good in pve were toned down in pvp because they were too good there) ***directly pasted from guild wars 1 wiki: **_As balance is a concern in PvP, the PvP effect causes many skills to be weaker in competitive play than in PvE._** (source: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Player_versus_Player) -this is how it should have been in gw2 also. *that means your pve experince will not be ruined because the skill there is strong BUT in pvp it would be balanced so everyone has fun* Someone suggested, maybe in another thread don't remember already, in order to cope with the one shot builds, to increase player defenses, but that is not a solution. That is basically trying to make player characters - raid bosses. Why they (the devs) chose to shoot themselves in the leg with GW2 skills not separate per game mode is beyond my comprehension because it seem highly illogical especially after the GW1 series. * oh and when one thing gets tuned & a new thing comes up as being exploited/abused they should tune that also - that is simple balance maintenance which every game that tries to be competitive strives to achieve, it isn't something alien. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk.5460 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 > @Sasajoe.1509 said: > > @Turk.5460 said: > > > @Sasajoe.1509 said: > > > > > & that is exactly why Anet needs to balance the hell out of this game if they want to keep tgeir customers (happy-content). > > > > > > I feel the same way as you. > > > > > > Every day i meet such cheezy builds in wvw & most of the times i win but whe i lose i get bitter not because i lost, but because i know that guy is inferior in skill & just exploits a broken mechanic. > > > > > > > > > Yesterday on my engi (i only solo roam as every class) i fought a condi daredevil & a soulbeast 1v2, the soulbeast was full zerker long bow xD while the DD was dire/trailblazer shortbow... (the 2 extremes we speak about) > > > > > > The several times we fought i always managed to kille the soul beast but the dd was too slippery & tanky > > > > > > When i finally managed to almost down him after i killed the sb, he just ran for the hills like there was no tomorrow xD. > > > > > > Can you immagine how bad these guys must be & they obviously knew it & roamed in a party because of that xD hhahah such pitty. > > > > > > > If this scenario actually happened, which is incredibly doubtful, your average player would not be complaining. They would be happy with the outcome of an outnumbered fight. > > > > Stories like this scream "I lost, but I'll pretend like I was winning, yet for some reason still complain." > > Highly doubtful lol ? so you never 1v2d before ? seems plausible. > > Actually to be honest neither I nor anybody else really cares what you think nor what you comment because it's quite obvious that you try to belittle everyone's comments (unsuccessfully) & probably nobody else takes you seriously either as I was looking through the forums.. so don't bother replying to my comments. > > Anyway this actually happened & what I am not happy about, I commented already on my previous post as its still very valid. You misunderstand, as usual. I highly doubt that *you* can win a 1v2, let alone make someone run away. Your post history is riddled with unjust complaining, and it's mostly about Thieves. Whining about skills and mechanics that you clearly do not understand is not a sign of a particular skilled individual. Apparently you think *all* Thieves are "cheese," even though plenty of people are able to easily kill them. Why aren't you one of those people who doesn't have a problem with Thieves? Could it possibly be because you are not nearly as skilled as you *think* you are? Hmmm. Though some of those posts aren't there anymore for some reason, and prior to today you seem to have taken a break from posting after so fervently whining about insignificant things. Is it possible that you personally removed some of your posts and changed your avatar to default for a few days due to the forum users not wanting to read such garbage? I guess we'll never know... Oh, and I 1v2 all the time! It's great fun and exhilarating . But when I win a 1v2 and one of them runs off, I don't complain that they ran, because I won an outnumbered fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerby.1069 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 You can use double dodge to negate the mesmer burst, there's enough advanced notice given in a 1vs1 situation. Once you do that you can kill them if they continue to commit (any high damage 360degree aoe will work, ur screwed if you dont have this tho). Cause they usually port into you and run right past you while stealthed....so all their clones and they themselves run into you. Cleave the clones and the area around you to counter. ALot of the time tho they will just run away and try again.....and alot of the time they succeed since they can just stalk you and hit you when you are bogged down. You are pretty screwed when you don't have 2 dodges available though, then you need to rely on invulnerabilities or mbe blocks. I don't think they are that big of a deal tho. Very powerful in gank squads tho no doubt, but everything is powerful in gank squads....its not a good way to dictate what does and doesnt' need balancing. Stealth abuse is the issue everyone probably has with the abilities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerby.1069 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 > @"Nocturnal Lunacy.8563" said: > > @EvilSardine.9635 said: > > Why is there not much talk about this? Instant kill abilities with no counter-play should not exist in a game. There should be skillful counter-play to everything. > > > > Right now, a mesmer can instant down you from stealth and there's absolutely nothing that can be done about it. You don't see it coming as there is no animation or sound warning. We ran a test and my buddy can hit my warrior with 1400 toughness for 24k damage instantly with no animation from stealth. Auto endure pain doesn't even kick in on time. Any other class with less health dies instantly. Where's the fun in this? Honestly, it's only fun for the mesmer and is that good for the game? I gave it a shot on my mesmer and I can teleport onto 3 people and instantly down them all from stealth. > > > > Most huge damage abilities in the game have obvious telegraphs. You can dodge deadeye's big damage because you see and hear an obvious projectile. You can see a killshot from a warrior coming because it's obvious. There's counter play to all of these. > > > > Is this getting nerfed or what? I don't mind being outplayed in duels and small fights but being instantly downed out of nowhere feels like you're cheated. > > People that run these types of builds are usually too scared to fight you head on and the only enjoyment they get is to be toxic to other players cuz they feel so toxic themselves. After all, if you lack any real skill then use whatever overpowered and unbalanced options available. LIke the vault spamming thieves, the constant invulnerable warrior with heal sig, the condi spamming necro etc. Spoken like someone who gets killed by them all the time....lol Attacking the person behind the character just cause you die to it all the time....that's depressing. Don't do that. If they have fun playing it, let them. If you have fun complaining about it, you do that. But to sit here trashing them for doing it their way and glorifying urself for doing it ur way.....that's just sad. I don't see mesmers on the forums making postings about how their enemies have no honourrrrrrrrrrrr and are ruining the game, calling their enemies toxic cause they don't use builds made of glass. They have more class than you and ur supposed way to play as far as I see it atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasajoe.1509 Posted November 14, 2017 Share Posted November 14, 2017 > @Turk.5460 said: > > @Sasajoe.1509 said: > > > @Turk.5460 said: > > > > @Sasajoe.1509 said: > > > > > > > & that is exactly why Anet needs to balance the hell out of this game if they want to keep tgeir customers (happy-content). > > > > > > > > I feel the same way as you. > > > > > > > > Every day i meet such cheezy builds in wvw & most of the times i win but whe i lose i get bitter not because i lost, but because i know that guy is inferior in skill & just exploits a broken mechanic. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yesterday on my engi (i only solo roam as every class) i fought a condi daredevil & a soulbeast 1v2, the soulbeast was full zerker long bow xD while the DD was dire/trailblazer shortbow... (the 2 extremes we speak about) > > > > > > > > The several times we fought i always managed to kille the soul beast but the dd was too slippery & tanky > > > > > > > > When i finally managed to almost down him after i killed the sb, he just ran for the hills like there was no tomorrow xD. > > > > > > > > Can you immagine how bad these guys must be & they obviously knew it & roamed in a party because of that xD hhahah such pitty. > > > > > > > > > > If this scenario actually happened, which is incredibly doubtful, your average player would not be complaining. They would be happy with the outcome of an outnumbered fight. > > > > > > Stories like this scream "I lost, but I'll pretend like I was winning, yet for some reason still complain." > > > > Highly doubtful lol ? so you never 1v2d before ? seems plausible. > > > > Actually to be honest neither I nor anybody else really cares what you think nor what you comment because it's quite obvious that you try to belittle everyone's comments (unsuccessfully) & probably nobody else takes you seriously either as I was looking through the forums.. so don't bother replying to my comments. > > > > Anyway this actually happened & what I am not happy about, I commented already on my previous post as its still very valid. > > You misunderstand, as usual. I highly doubt that *you* can win a 1v2, let alone make someone run away. Your post history is riddled with unjust complaining, and it's mostly about Thieves. Whining about skills and mechanics that you clearly do not understand is not a sign of a particular skilled individual. Apparently you think *all* Thieves are "cheese," even though plenty of people are able to easily kill them. Why aren't you one of those people who doesn't have a problem with Thieves? Could it possibly be because you are not nearly as skilled as you *think* you are? Hmmm. Though some of those posts aren't there anymore for some reason, and prior to today you seem to have taken a break from posting after so fervently whining about insignificant things. Is it possible that you personally removed some of your posts and changed your avatar to default for a few days due to the forum users not wanting to read such garbage? I guess we'll never know... > > Oh, and I 1v2 all the time! It's great fun and exhilarating . But when I win a 1v2 and one of them runs off, I don't complain that they ran, because I won an outnumbered fight. I will not comment on the thief because It would be more successful reasoning with a stump, at least the stump is for sure not biased toward thieves. ( btw don't start with the thief being the most skill intensive class because especially in wvw roaming its the easiest most forgiving one - that is why you see so many of them around - because it's essentially an easy mode) & yes although winning a 1v2 was satisfying this doesn't change the fact that poor balance exists, while i had to be on top of my skills the other guys were just casually using cheap no-brain builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDse.7623 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 > @Sasajoe.1509 said: > I will not comment on the thief because It would be more successful reasoning with a stump, at least the stump is for sure not biased toward thieves. > > ( btw don't start with the thief being the most skill intensive class because especially in wvw roaming its the easiest most forgiving one - that is why you see so many of them around - because it's essentially an easy mode) > > & yes although winning a 1v2 was satisfying this doesn't change the fact that poor balance exists, while i had to be on top of my skills the other guys were just casually using cheap no-brain builds. i also feel like thief being the easiest class for wvw roaming mainly cause you can choose to fight and never die without knowing that you take the risk to do so. i think that you want to be able to fight multiple 'less skilled' players and i can understand that, as a thief you can mostly unless they understand downstate mechanics. the diffrence in 'skill' between average commong WvW player and a top tier roamer is huge tho. depending on the balance being more towards sustain or damage will determine what this will cause. with balance more towards damage like right now you wont be able to tank 5 noobs mostly and you can just spike one-two down and disengange if your good and if they are like REALLY bad you might even be able to kill all of em. with balance towards sustain you will have roamers solo killing 10+ people if they dont understand downstate mechanic (and i feel like too many dont) and little groups of good roamer will do..well. as the really good players are a minority more people will be happy wih a balance towards damage i think as its easier to kill a good opponent when outnumbering him like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper Alim.4176 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 > @MUDse.7623 said: > > @Sasajoe.1509 said: > > I will not comment on the thief because It would be more successful reasoning with a stump, at least the stump is for sure not biased toward thieves. > > > > ( btw don't start with the thief being the most skill intensive class because especially in wvw roaming its the easiest most forgiving one - that is why you see so many of them around - because it's essentially an easy mode) > > > > & yes although winning a 1v2 was satisfying this doesn't change the fact that poor balance exists, while i had to be on top of my skills the other guys were just casually using cheap no-brain builds. > > i also feel like thief being the easiest class for wvw roaming mainly cause you can choose to fight and never die without knowing that you take the risk to do so. > > i think that you want to be able to fight multiple 'less skilled' players and i can understand that, as a thief you can mostly unless they understand downstate mechanics. the diffrence in 'skill' between average commong WvW player and a top tier roamer is huge tho. depending on the balance being more towards sustain or damage will determine what this will cause. with balance more towards damage like right now you wont be able to tank 5 noobs mostly and you can just spike one-two down and disengange if your good and if they are like REALLY bad you might even be able to kill all of em. with balance towards sustain you will have roamers solo killing 10+ people if they dont understand downstate mechanic (and i feel like too many dont) and little groups of good roamer will do..well. as the really good players are a minority more people will be happy wih a balance towards damage i think as its easier to kill a good opponent when outnumbering him like this. Yeah because god forbid players in GW2 are allowed to show off their skills. Like these guys in this game's version of RvR...... But then that would go completely against GW2's edict of being inclusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDse.7623 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 > @"Reaper Alim.4176" said: > > @MUDse.7623 said: > > > @Sasajoe.1509 said: > > > I will not comment on the thief because It would be more successful reasoning with a stump, at least the stump is for sure not biased toward thieves. > > > > > > ( btw don't start with the thief being the most skill intensive class because especially in wvw roaming its the easiest most forgiving one - that is why you see so many of them around - because it's essentially an easy mode) > > > > > > & yes although winning a 1v2 was satisfying this doesn't change the fact that poor balance exists, while i had to be on top of my skills the other guys were just casually using cheap no-brain builds. > > > > i also feel like thief being the easiest class for wvw roaming mainly cause you can choose to fight and never die without knowing that you take the risk to do so. > > > > i think that you want to be able to fight multiple 'less skilled' players and i can understand that, as a thief you can mostly unless they understand downstate mechanics. the diffrence in 'skill' between average commong WvW player and a top tier roamer is huge tho. depending on the balance being more towards sustain or damage will determine what this will cause. with balance more towards damage like right now you wont be able to tank 5 noobs mostly and you can just spike one-two down and disengange if your good and if they are like REALLY bad you might even be able to kill all of em. with balance towards sustain you will have roamers solo killing 10+ people if they dont understand downstate mechanic (and i feel like too many dont) and little groups of good roamer will do..well. as the really good players are a minority more people will be happy wih a balance towards damage i think as its easier to kill a good opponent when outnumbering him like this. > > Yeah because god forbid players in GW2 are allowed to show off their skills. Like these guys in this game's version of RvR...... But then that would go completely against GW2's edict of being inclusive. you did see that the guy in the video is emperor and has therefor higher stats than his opponents thats what i can tell from that video. apart from that i didnt play eso long enough to know how much 'skill' that is. i dont have an issue personally about skill being valued in a fight, i often did rage myself when i did roam on other classes then my thief and wasnt able to pick my fights and then get killed by a bunch of people that would have no chance in a 1 on 1 or even 1 vs 2. but try to see this from the persective of an average casual WvW player. would you like to get killed like all day even when you outnumber your opponent by alot ? i think we would lose even more people with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper Alim.4176 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 > @MUDse.7623 said: > > @"Reaper Alim.4176" said: > > > @MUDse.7623 said: > > > > @Sasajoe.1509 said: > > > > I will not comment on the thief because It would be more successful reasoning with a stump, at least the stump is for sure not biased toward thieves. > > > > > > > > ( btw don't start with the thief being the most skill intensive class because especially in wvw roaming its the easiest most forgiving one - that is why you see so many of them around - because it's essentially an easy mode) > > > > > > > > & yes although winning a 1v2 was satisfying this doesn't change the fact that poor balance exists, while i had to be on top of my skills the other guys were just casually using cheap no-brain builds. > > > > > > i also feel like thief being the easiest class for wvw roaming mainly cause you can choose to fight and never die without knowing that you take the risk to do so. > > > > > > i think that you want to be able to fight multiple 'less skilled' players and i can understand that, as a thief you can mostly unless they understand downstate mechanics. the diffrence in 'skill' between average commong WvW player and a top tier roamer is huge tho. depending on the balance being more towards sustain or damage will determine what this will cause. with balance more towards damage like right now you wont be able to tank 5 noobs mostly and you can just spike one-two down and disengange if your good and if they are like REALLY bad you might even be able to kill all of em. with balance towards sustain you will have roamers solo killing 10+ people if they dont understand downstate mechanic (and i feel like too many dont) and little groups of good roamer will do..well. as the really good players are a minority more people will be happy wih a balance towards damage i think as its easier to kill a good opponent when outnumbering him like this. > > > > Yeah because god forbid players in GW2 are allowed to show off their skills. Like these guys in this game's version of RvR...... But then that would go completely against GW2's edict of being inclusive. > > you did see that the guy in the video is emperor and has therefor higher stats than his opponents thats what i can tell from that video. apart from that i didnt play eso long enough to know how much 'skill' that is. > i dont have an issue personally about skill being valued in a fight, i often did rage myself when i did roam on other classes then my thief and wasnt able to pick my fights and then get killed by a bunch of people that would have no chance in a 1 on 1 or even 1 vs 2. but try to see this from the persective of an average casual WvW player. would you like to get killed like all day even when you outnumber your opponent by alot ? i think we would lose even more people with that. I don't think GW2 started losing all of it's WvW guilds and pillars to server communities. Till ANet turned WvW into a super casual, stack x server and win game mode. Up until that point when I was in DB. We alone had many many many fight guilds who zerg bust. Then mid year one of HoT as ANet started to continuously nerf small man and solo groups more and more. Loads of WvWers from DB alone started leaving because their was not many fights happening. Then the K-Train META happen and at that point DB's guilds for the most part left GW2 in mass. Now that skill has been replaced with very uninteresting stack "x server" to win and spam down your opponents that have lesser numbers. WvW is at this state. I honestly noticed at least 10x more population in WvW. Back when players was actually able to skillfully take down huge zergs. Now that's no longer possible players simply moved on as did ANet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlette.9684 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 I can’t remember the last time I saw any of said one shot builds on T1. What tier do you guys play? Sounds like a population issue that enables dueling specs to flourish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDse.7623 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 > @"Reaper Alim.4176" said: > > @MUDse.7623 said: > > > @"Reaper Alim.4176" said: > > > > @MUDse.7623 said: > > > > > @Sasajoe.1509 said: > > > > > I will not comment on the thief because It would be more successful reasoning with a stump, at least the stump is for sure not biased toward thieves. > > > > > > > > > > ( btw don't start with the thief being the most skill intensive class because especially in wvw roaming its the easiest most forgiving one - that is why you see so many of them around - because it's essentially an easy mode) > > > > > > > > > > & yes although winning a 1v2 was satisfying this doesn't change the fact that poor balance exists, while i had to be on top of my skills the other guys were just casually using cheap no-brain builds. > > > > > > > > i also feel like thief being the easiest class for wvw roaming mainly cause you can choose to fight and never die without knowing that you take the risk to do so. > > > > > > > > i think that you want to be able to fight multiple 'less skilled' players and i can understand that, as a thief you can mostly unless they understand downstate mechanics. the diffrence in 'skill' between average commong WvW player and a top tier roamer is huge tho. depending on the balance being more towards sustain or damage will determine what this will cause. with balance more towards damage like right now you wont be able to tank 5 noobs mostly and you can just spike one-two down and disengange if your good and if they are like REALLY bad you might even be able to kill all of em. with balance towards sustain you will have roamers solo killing 10+ people if they dont understand downstate mechanic (and i feel like too many dont) and little groups of good roamer will do..well. as the really good players are a minority more people will be happy wih a balance towards damage i think as its easier to kill a good opponent when outnumbering him like this. > > > > > > Yeah because god forbid players in GW2 are allowed to show off their skills. Like these guys in this game's version of RvR...... But then that would go completely against GW2's edict of being inclusive. > > > > you did see that the guy in the video is emperor and has therefor higher stats than his opponents thats what i can tell from that video. apart from that i didnt play eso long enough to know how much 'skill' that is. > > i dont have an issue personally about skill being valued in a fight, i often did rage myself when i did roam on other classes then my thief and wasnt able to pick my fights and then get killed by a bunch of people that would have no chance in a 1 on 1 or even 1 vs 2. but try to see this from the persective of an average casual WvW player. would you like to get killed like all day even when you outnumber your opponent by alot ? i think we would lose even more people with that. > > I don't think GW2 started losing all of it's WvW guilds and pillars to server communities. Till ANet turned WvW into a super casual, stack x server and win game mode. Up until that point when I was in DB. We alone had many many many fight guilds who zerg bust. > > Then mid year one of HoT as ANet started to continuously nerf small man and solo groups more and more. Loads of WvWers from DB alone started leaving because their was not many fights happening. Then the K-Train META happen and at that point DB's guilds for the most part left GW2 in mass. > > Now that skill has been replaced with very uninteresting stack "x server" to win and spam down your opponents that have lesser numbers. WvW is at this state. I honestly noticed at least 10x more population in WvW. Back when players was actually able to skillfully take down huge zergs. Now that's no longer possible players simply moved on as did ANet. do you think those guilds and players will come back if they reintroduce zergbusting? at the beginning of GW2 i remember alot of people that did want to strateic siege and controll supply routes and so on, that would have loved desert map, most of them did not return when desert map was released. but the players still in gw2 at that time mostly disliked desert map and alot still do. so i dont think catering to gone players is better as you dont gurantee their return but might piss off people that still play. now the question is of the people still playing how much do they want skill to be valued in fights. most above average players will want their skill to be more valued probably cause that would make em more successful, while rather casual players i dont know but i cant imagine they want to have 0 chance :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper Alim.4176 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 > @MUDse.7623 said: > > @"Reaper Alim.4176" said: > > > @MUDse.7623 said: > > > > @"Reaper Alim.4176" said: > > > > > @MUDse.7623 said: > > > > > > @Sasajoe.1509 said: > > > > > > I will not comment on the thief because It would be more successful reasoning with a stump, at least the stump is for sure not biased toward thieves. > > > > > > > > > > > > ( btw don't start with the thief being the most skill intensive class because especially in wvw roaming its the easiest most forgiving one - that is why you see so many of them around - because it's essentially an easy mode) > > > > > > > > > > > > & yes although winning a 1v2 was satisfying this doesn't change the fact that poor balance exists, while i had to be on top of my skills the other guys were just casually using cheap no-brain builds. > > > > > > > > > > i also feel like thief being the easiest class for wvw roaming mainly cause you can choose to fight and never die without knowing that you take the risk to do so. > > > > > > > > > > i think that you want to be able to fight multiple 'less skilled' players and i can understand that, as a thief you can mostly unless they understand downstate mechanics. the diffrence in 'skill' between average commong WvW player and a top tier roamer is huge tho. depending on the balance being more towards sustain or damage will determine what this will cause. with balance more towards damage like right now you wont be able to tank 5 noobs mostly and you can just spike one-two down and disengange if your good and if they are like REALLY bad you might even be able to kill all of em. with balance towards sustain you will have roamers solo killing 10+ people if they dont understand downstate mechanic (and i feel like too many dont) and little groups of good roamer will do..well. as the really good players are a minority more people will be happy wih a balance towards damage i think as its easier to kill a good opponent when outnumbering him like this. > > > > > > > > Yeah because god forbid players in GW2 are allowed to show off their skills. Like these guys in this game's version of RvR...... But then that would go completely against GW2's edict of being inclusive. > > > > > > you did see that the guy in the video is emperor and has therefor higher stats than his opponents thats what i can tell from that video. apart from that i didnt play eso long enough to know how much 'skill' that is. > > > i dont have an issue personally about skill being valued in a fight, i often did rage myself when i did roam on other classes then my thief and wasnt able to pick my fights and then get killed by a bunch of people that would have no chance in a 1 on 1 or even 1 vs 2. but try to see this from the persective of an average casual WvW player. would you like to get killed like all day even when you outnumber your opponent by alot ? i think we would lose even more people with that. > > > > I don't think GW2 started losing all of it's WvW guilds and pillars to server communities. Till ANet turned WvW into a super casual, stack x server and win game mode. Up until that point when I was in DB. We alone had many many many fight guilds who zerg bust. > > > > Then mid year one of HoT as ANet started to continuously nerf small man and solo groups more and more. Loads of WvWers from DB alone started leaving because their was not many fights happening. Then the K-Train META happen and at that point DB's guilds for the most part left GW2 in mass. > > > > Now that skill has been replaced with very uninteresting stack "x server" to win and spam down your opponents that have lesser numbers. WvW is at this state. I honestly noticed at least 10x more population in WvW. Back when players was actually able to skillfully take down huge zergs. Now that's no longer possible players simply moved on as did ANet. > > do you think those guilds and players will come back if they reintroduce zergbusting? at the beginning of GW2 i remember alot of people that did want to strateic siege and controll supply routes and so on, that would have loved desert map, most of them did not return when desert map was released. but the players still in gw2 at that time mostly disliked desert map and alot still do. so i dont think catering to gone players is better as you dont gurantee their return but might kitten off people that still play. now the question is of the people still playing how much do they want skill to be valued in fights. most above average players will want their skill to be more valued probably cause that would make em more successful, while rather casual players i dont know but i cant imagine they want to have 0 chance :D > *Tips cap* Your assessment is completely correct. Since ANet's decisions have forced dedicated WvW players and guilds to leave. And all that left are PvE players who are happy with K-Train farmland. ANet has pretty much shoehorned itself to having to only cater to the revolving door casuals. Nothing wrong with that at all. I do not think ANet would be able to get a decent percent, of the fight oriented players back to playing GW2. Because other MMOs simply provide this far better than ANet does. So why other than friends, would Joe Doe come back to a inferior game. This is one of the biggest reasons why WvW in GW2 will not see development. This is why ANet is okay with farming WvW players. By purposely setting up unbalance links. Thus the downward spiral will continue till WvW completely dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 > @"Reaper Alim.4176" said: > > @MUDse.7623 said: > > > @"Reaper Alim.4176" said: > > > > @MUDse.7623 said: > > > > > @"Reaper Alim.4176" said: > > > > > > @MUDse.7623 said: > > > > > > > @Sasajoe.1509 said: > > > > > > > I will not comment on the thief because It would be more successful reasoning with a stump, at least the stump is for sure not biased toward thieves. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ( btw don't start with the thief being the most skill intensive class because especially in wvw roaming its the easiest most forgiving one - that is why you see so many of them around - because it's essentially an easy mode) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > & yes although winning a 1v2 was satisfying this doesn't change the fact that poor balance exists, while i had to be on top of my skills the other guys were just casually using cheap no-brain builds. > > > > > > > > > > > > i also feel like thief being the easiest class for wvw roaming mainly cause you can choose to fight and never die without knowing that you take the risk to do so. > > > > > > > > > > > > i think that you want to be able to fight multiple 'less skilled' players and i can understand that, as a thief you can mostly unless they understand downstate mechanics. the diffrence in 'skill' between average commong WvW player and a top tier roamer is huge tho. depending on the balance being more towards sustain or damage will determine what this will cause. with balance more towards damage like right now you wont be able to tank 5 noobs mostly and you can just spike one-two down and disengange if your good and if they are like REALLY bad you might even be able to kill all of em. with balance towards sustain you will have roamers solo killing 10+ people if they dont understand downstate mechanic (and i feel like too many dont) and little groups of good roamer will do..well. as the really good players are a minority more people will be happy wih a balance towards damage i think as its easier to kill a good opponent when outnumbering him like this. > > > > > > > > > > Yeah because god forbid players in GW2 are allowed to show off their skills. Like these guys in this game's version of RvR...... But then that would go completely against GW2's edict of being inclusive. > > > > > > > > you did see that the guy in the video is emperor and has therefor higher stats than his opponents thats what i can tell from that video. apart from that i didnt play eso long enough to know how much 'skill' that is. > > > > i dont have an issue personally about skill being valued in a fight, i often did rage myself when i did roam on other classes then my thief and wasnt able to pick my fights and then get killed by a bunch of people that would have no chance in a 1 on 1 or even 1 vs 2. but try to see this from the persective of an average casual WvW player. would you like to get killed like all day even when you outnumber your opponent by alot ? i think we would lose even more people with that. > > > > > > I don't think GW2 started losing all of it's WvW guilds and pillars to server communities. Till ANet turned WvW into a super casual, stack x server and win game mode. Up until that point when I was in DB. We alone had many many many fight guilds who zerg bust. > > > > > > Then mid year one of HoT as ANet started to continuously nerf small man and solo groups more and more. Loads of WvWers from DB alone started leaving because their was not many fights happening. Then the K-Train META happen and at that point DB's guilds for the most part left GW2 in mass. > > > > > > Now that skill has been replaced with very uninteresting stack "x server" to win and spam down your opponents that have lesser numbers. WvW is at this state. I honestly noticed at least 10x more population in WvW. Back when players was actually able to skillfully take down huge zergs. Now that's no longer possible players simply moved on as did ANet. > > > > do you think those guilds and players will come back if they reintroduce zergbusting? at the beginning of GW2 i remember alot of people that did want to strateic siege and controll supply routes and so on, that would have loved desert map, most of them did not return when desert map was released. but the players still in gw2 at that time mostly disliked desert map and alot still do. so i dont think catering to gone players is better as you dont gurantee their return but might kitten off people that still play. now the question is of the people still playing how much do they want skill to be valued in fights. most above average players will want their skill to be more valued probably cause that would make em more successful, while rather casual players i dont know but i cant imagine they want to have 0 chance :D > > > > *Tips cap* > > Your assessment is completely correct. Since ANet's decisions have forced dedicated WvW players and guilds to leave. And all that left are PvE players who are happy with K-Train farmland. ANet has pretty much shoehorned itself to having to only cater to the revolving door casuals. Nothing wrong with that at all. > > I do not think ANet would be able to get a decent percent, of the fight oriented players back to playing GW2. Because other MMOs simply provide this far better than ANet does. So why other than friends, would Joe Doe come back to a inferior game. > > This is one of the biggest reasons why WvW in GW2 will not see development. This is why ANet is okay with farming WvW players. By purposely setting up unbalance links. Thus the downward spiral will continue till WvW completely dies. Not just that, many got tired with the meta, many left because of the stab changes, if they came back now and rolled up in their guards they would see the same thing except instead of their stab stripped by CC it’s corrupted/removed by something they have no clue about. I’ve seen many players come back saying the combat feels so good, actively dodging stuff and timing skills....then they face the cheese of meta and do 1 of 2 things, leave or run the cheese of their class. OK cheese might be a bit harsh but they have to run what they might not like or feel particularly skilful using because they see it as too strong too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Disgrace.4275 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 Go throw your self at a mesmer, get spiked down a few times and you will soon learn when to dodge and/or, try it your self too. The hardest part is fighting mesmers who known how to juggle their defensive skills for a time period to try again (not full burst but even 2 mind wracks and stun can still do 10k dmg) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulzi.8273 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 > @MUDse.7623 said: > > @"Reaper Alim.4176" said: > > > @MUDse.7623 said: > > > > @"Reaper Alim.4176" said: > > > > > @MUDse.7623 said: > > > > > > @Sasajoe.1509 said: > > > > > > I will not comment on the thief because It would be more successful reasoning with a stump, at least the stump is for sure not biased toward thieves. > > > > > > > > > > > > ( btw don't start with the thief being the most skill intensive class because especially in wvw roaming its the easiest most forgiving one - that is why you see so many of them around - because it's essentially an easy mode) > > > > > > > > > > > > & yes although winning a 1v2 was satisfying this doesn't change the fact that poor balance exists, while i had to be on top of my skills the other guys were just casually using cheap no-brain builds. > > > > > > > > > > i also feel like thief being the easiest class for wvw roaming mainly cause you can choose to fight and never die without knowing that you take the risk to do so. > > > > > > > > > > i think that you want to be able to fight multiple 'less skilled' players and i can understand that, as a thief you can mostly unless they understand downstate mechanics. the diffrence in 'skill' between average commong WvW player and a top tier roamer is huge tho. depending on the balance being more towards sustain or damage will determine what this will cause. with balance more towards damage like right now you wont be able to tank 5 noobs mostly and you can just spike one-two down and disengange if your good and if they are like REALLY bad you might even be able to kill all of em. with balance towards sustain you will have roamers solo killing 10+ people if they dont understand downstate mechanic (and i feel like too many dont) and little groups of good roamer will do..well. as the really good players are a minority more people will be happy wih a balance towards damage i think as its easier to kill a good opponent when outnumbering him like this. > > > > > > > > Yeah because god forbid players in GW2 are allowed to show off their skills. Like these guys in this game's version of RvR...... But then that would go completely against GW2's edict of being inclusive. > > > > > > you did see that the guy in the video is emperor and has therefor higher stats than his opponents thats what i can tell from that video. apart from that i didnt play eso long enough to know how much 'skill' that is. > > > i dont have an issue personally about skill being valued in a fight, i often did rage myself when i did roam on other classes then my thief and wasnt able to pick my fights and then get killed by a bunch of people that would have no chance in a 1 on 1 or even 1 vs 2. but try to see this from the persective of an average casual WvW player. would you like to get killed like all day even when you outnumber your opponent by alot ? i think we would lose even more people with that. > > > > I don't think GW2 started losing all of it's WvW guilds and pillars to server communities. Till ANet turned WvW into a super casual, stack x server and win game mode. Up until that point when I was in DB. We alone had many many many fight guilds who zerg bust. > > > > Then mid year one of HoT as ANet started to continuously nerf small man and solo groups more and more. Loads of WvWers from DB alone started leaving because their was not many fights happening. Then the K-Train META happen and at that point DB's guilds for the most part left GW2 in mass. > > > > Now that skill has been replaced with very uninteresting stack "x server" to win and spam down your opponents that have lesser numbers. WvW is at this state. I honestly noticed at least 10x more population in WvW. Back when players was actually able to skillfully take down huge zergs. Now that's no longer possible players simply moved on as did ANet. > > do you think those guilds and players will come back if they reintroduce zergbusting? at the beginning of GW2 i remember alot of people that did want to strateic siege and controll supply routes and so on, that would have loved desert map, most of them did not return when desert map was released. but the players still in gw2 at that time mostly disliked desert map and alot still do. so i dont think catering to gone players is better as you dont gurantee their return but might kitten off people that still play. now the question is of the people still playing how much do they want skill to be valued in fights. most above average players will want their skill to be more valued probably cause that would make em more successful, while rather casual players i dont know but i cant imagine they want to have 0 chance :D > I see this comment alot lately. And while some design choices could contribute to some folks leaving the game, I think the overall pug mentality and skill level has changed to where a zergbusting guild with 10 people could no longer could jump into the middle of 50 people and kill them all. This made the zergbusters rage and quit more than anything Anet has done. Sure, the zergbusters come on here and rage that anet killed their fun instead of looking in the mirror and realizing regular non guild folks had closed the skill gap. This is why you saw alot of guilds playing in EoTm before the pip patch: easier to kill a zerg there when the zerg is inexperienced and full of up levels. Most Pugs nowadays are all in voice chat, so these guild 'busters' no longer have that advantage. And most of the folks still playing have lots of wvw experience now, so fighting outnumbered isnt the cake walk it use to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk.5460 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 > @mulzi.8273 said: > > @MUDse.7623 said: > > > @"Reaper Alim.4176" said: > > > > @MUDse.7623 said: > > > > > @"Reaper Alim.4176" said: > > > > > > @MUDse.7623 said: > > > > > > > @Sasajoe.1509 said: > > > > > > > I will not comment on the thief because It would be more successful reasoning with a stump, at least the stump is for sure not biased toward thieves. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ( btw don't start with the thief being the most skill intensive class because especially in wvw roaming its the easiest most forgiving one - that is why you see so many of them around - because it's essentially an easy mode) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > & yes although winning a 1v2 was satisfying this doesn't change the fact that poor balance exists, while i had to be on top of my skills the other guys were just casually using cheap no-brain builds. > > > > > > > > > > > > i also feel like thief being the easiest class for wvw roaming mainly cause you can choose to fight and never die without knowing that you take the risk to do so. > > > > > > > > > > > > i think that you want to be able to fight multiple 'less skilled' players and i can understand that, as a thief you can mostly unless they understand downstate mechanics. the diffrence in 'skill' between average commong WvW player and a top tier roamer is huge tho. depending on the balance being more towards sustain or damage will determine what this will cause. with balance more towards damage like right now you wont be able to tank 5 noobs mostly and you can just spike one-two down and disengange if your good and if they are like REALLY bad you might even be able to kill all of em. with balance towards sustain you will have roamers solo killing 10+ people if they dont understand downstate mechanic (and i feel like too many dont) and little groups of good roamer will do..well. as the really good players are a minority more people will be happy wih a balance towards damage i think as its easier to kill a good opponent when outnumbering him like this. > > > > > > > > > > Yeah because god forbid players in GW2 are allowed to show off their skills. Like these guys in this game's version of RvR...... But then that would go completely against GW2's edict of being inclusive. > > > > > > > > you did see that the guy in the video is emperor and has therefor higher stats than his opponents thats what i can tell from that video. apart from that i didnt play eso long enough to know how much 'skill' that is. > > > > i dont have an issue personally about skill being valued in a fight, i often did rage myself when i did roam on other classes then my thief and wasnt able to pick my fights and then get killed by a bunch of people that would have no chance in a 1 on 1 or even 1 vs 2. but try to see this from the persective of an average casual WvW player. would you like to get killed like all day even when you outnumber your opponent by alot ? i think we would lose even more people with that. > > > > > > I don't think GW2 started losing all of it's WvW guilds and pillars to server communities. Till ANet turned WvW into a super casual, stack x server and win game mode. Up until that point when I was in DB. We alone had many many many fight guilds who zerg bust. > > > > > > Then mid year one of HoT as ANet started to continuously nerf small man and solo groups more and more. Loads of WvWers from DB alone started leaving because their was not many fights happening. Then the K-Train META happen and at that point DB's guilds for the most part left GW2 in mass. > > > > > > Now that skill has been replaced with very uninteresting stack "x server" to win and spam down your opponents that have lesser numbers. WvW is at this state. I honestly noticed at least 10x more population in WvW. Back when players was actually able to skillfully take down huge zergs. Now that's no longer possible players simply moved on as did ANet. > > > > do you think those guilds and players will come back if they reintroduce zergbusting? at the beginning of GW2 i remember alot of people that did want to strateic siege and controll supply routes and so on, that would have loved desert map, most of them did not return when desert map was released. but the players still in gw2 at that time mostly disliked desert map and alot still do. so i dont think catering to gone players is better as you dont gurantee their return but might kitten off people that still play. now the question is of the people still playing how much do they want skill to be valued in fights. most above average players will want their skill to be more valued probably cause that would make em more successful, while rather casual players i dont know but i cant imagine they want to have 0 chance :D > > > > I see this comment alot lately. And while some design choices could contribute to some folks leaving the game, I think the overall pug mentality and skill level has changed to where a zergbusting guild with 10 people could no longer could jump into the middle of 50 people and kill them all. This made the zergbusters rage and quit more than anything Anet has done. Sure, the zergbusters come on here and rage that anet killed their fun instead of looking in the mirror and realizing regular non guild folks had closed the skill gap. This is why you saw alot of guilds playing in EoTm before the pip patch: easier to kill a zerg there when the zerg is inexperienced and full of up levels. > > Most Pugs nowadays are all in voice chat, so these guild 'busters' no longer have that advantage. And most of the folks still playing have lots of wvw experience now, so fighting outnumbered isnt the cake walk it use to be. Very true. The zergbusting guilds once had more experience and skill, which allowed them to do just that. But that is no longer the case with the majority of the PUG pool now. Those types of people will almost always blame anything else (ANET, Balance, Professions, Mechanics, etc) before admitting that they are not better than their opponent. Their mentality will always be "I've got more skill" when they win, and "OMG LAG BALANCE UNFAIR CLASS" when they lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 > @"Reaper Alim.4176" said: > I don't think GW2 started losing all of it's WvW guilds and pillars to server communities. Till ANet turned WvW into a super casual, stack x server and win game mode. This game has always been "stack x server and ktrain to win". Short memory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 > @mulzi.8273 said: > > @MUDse.7623 said: > > > @"Reaper Alim.4176" said: > > > > @MUDse.7623 said: > > > > > @"Reaper Alim.4176" said: > > > > > > @MUDse.7623 said: > > > > > > > @Sasajoe.1509 said: > > > > > > > I will not comment on the thief because It would be more successful reasoning with a stump, at least the stump is for sure not biased toward thieves. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ( btw don't start with the thief being the most skill intensive class because especially in wvw roaming its the easiest most forgiving one - that is why you see so many of them around - because it's essentially an easy mode) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > & yes although winning a 1v2 was satisfying this doesn't change the fact that poor balance exists, while i had to be on top of my skills the other guys were just casually using cheap no-brain builds. > > > > > > > > > > > > i also feel like thief being the easiest class for wvw roaming mainly cause you can choose to fight and never die without knowing that you take the risk to do so. > > > > > > > > > > > > i think that you want to be able to fight multiple 'less skilled' players and i can understand that, as a thief you can mostly unless they understand downstate mechanics. the diffrence in 'skill' between average commong WvW player and a top tier roamer is huge tho. depending on the balance being more towards sustain or damage will determine what this will cause. with balance more towards damage like right now you wont be able to tank 5 noobs mostly and you can just spike one-two down and disengange if your good and if they are like REALLY bad you might even be able to kill all of em. with balance towards sustain you will have roamers solo killing 10+ people if they dont understand downstate mechanic (and i feel like too many dont) and little groups of good roamer will do..well. as the really good players are a minority more people will be happy wih a balance towards damage i think as its easier to kill a good opponent when outnumbering him like this. > > > > > > > > > > Yeah because god forbid players in GW2 are allowed to show off their skills. Like these guys in this game's version of RvR...... But then that would go completely against GW2's edict of being inclusive. > > > > > > > > you did see that the guy in the video is emperor and has therefor higher stats than his opponents thats what i can tell from that video. apart from that i didnt play eso long enough to know how much 'skill' that is. > > > > i dont have an issue personally about skill being valued in a fight, i often did rage myself when i did roam on other classes then my thief and wasnt able to pick my fights and then get killed by a bunch of people that would have no chance in a 1 on 1 or even 1 vs 2. but try to see this from the persective of an average casual WvW player. would you like to get killed like all day even when you outnumber your opponent by alot ? i think we would lose even more people with that. > > > > > > I don't think GW2 started losing all of it's WvW guilds and pillars to server communities. Till ANet turned WvW into a super casual, stack x server and win game mode. Up until that point when I was in DB. We alone had many many many fight guilds who zerg bust. > > > > > > Then mid year one of HoT as ANet started to continuously nerf small man and solo groups more and more. Loads of WvWers from DB alone started leaving because their was not many fights happening. Then the K-Train META happen and at that point DB's guilds for the most part left GW2 in mass. > > > > > > Now that skill has been replaced with very uninteresting stack "x server" to win and spam down your opponents that have lesser numbers. WvW is at this state. I honestly noticed at least 10x more population in WvW. Back when players was actually able to skillfully take down huge zergs. Now that's no longer possible players simply moved on as did ANet. > > > > do you think those guilds and players will come back if they reintroduce zergbusting? at the beginning of GW2 i remember alot of people that did want to strateic siege and controll supply routes and so on, that would have loved desert map, most of them did not return when desert map was released. but the players still in gw2 at that time mostly disliked desert map and alot still do. so i dont think catering to gone players is better as you dont gurantee their return but might kitten off people that still play. now the question is of the people still playing how much do they want skill to be valued in fights. most above average players will want their skill to be more valued probably cause that would make em more successful, while rather casual players i dont know but i cant imagine they want to have 0 chance :D > > > > I see this comment alot lately. And while some design choices could contribute to some folks leaving the game, I think the overall pug mentality and skill level has changed to where a zergbusting guild with 10 people could no longer could jump into the middle of 50 people and kill them all. This made the zergbusters rage and quit more than anything Anet has done. Sure, the zergbusters come on here and rage that anet killed their fun instead of looking in the mirror and realizing regular non guild folks had closed the skill gap. This is why you saw alot of guilds playing in EoTm before the pip patch: easier to kill a zerg there when the zerg is inexperienced and full of up levels. > > Most Pugs nowadays are all in voice chat, so these guild 'busters' no longer have that advantage. And most of the folks still playing have lots of wvw experience now, so fighting outnumbered isnt the cake walk it use to be. Oh no, no no no, not even remotely like that. When I pick at the back of a Zerg on my power mesmer I will see them use every single survivability skills back to back until either they die or they run into a tower or the Zerg comes back. When I have been caught by a Zerg I’ve seen scourges place necro marks on me **while there isn’t another enemy player on the border let alone nearby**. I have had pug zerglings stomp my downstate clone not once but twice before leaving and going back to the Zerg while 10 other enemies literally run past me self rezzing doing **nothing to stop me ressing!!** Make no mistake the zerglings are clueless not just about the game but what to do and are being carried by press any button and you win because of numbers classes like scourge and firebrand. The one that annoys me the most is pops armour of earth then goes mistform immediately...**JUST USE MISTFORM NEXT TIME!!** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svarty.8019 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 Mesmers can insta-down people because Arenanet; * don't prioritise balance highly enough, * don't test enough and, * despite statements to the contrary in the [media](http://www.mmorpg.com/guild-wars-2/interviews/arenanet-discusses-the-balance-in-tyria-1000012242 "media") and on the [forum](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/14934/some-constructive-feedback-about-unhindered-combatant-change/p1 "forum"), encourage players to build for giant spike damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben K.6238 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 > @Chaba.5410 said: > > @"Reaper Alim.4176" said: > > I don't think GW2 started losing all of it's WvW guilds and pillars to server communities. Till ANet turned WvW into a super casual, stack x server and win game mode. > > This game has always been "stack x server and ktrain to win". Short memory? Was going to say. Right from day 1, the most powerful servers were the ones that could fill maps with organised guilds 24/7. After about a month, the first mega-alliance imploded as they realised the system was unsustainable and unrewarding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 Its a plague of the GW2 player base to complain about things that they are fully in control of. Seeming to have a problem with 1 shot mesmers from stealth? ANET has provided answers rather you choose them or not is your choice. If you chose not to protect yourself from their build, then you choose to die to it. Its not that the options don't exist, its that players refuse to adapt. A build that gives up almost everything to perform a 1 shot combo from stealth. What if: -They get hit first by lets say a scourage, no condi clear? oh look they're dead. -They get ambushed by a thief who is also full glass? oh look they're dead. -They mess up their own combo and don't get the full 100-0? oh look they're dead. -Get counter-cc'd by a trait? oh look they're dead. -Defending player reacts fast enough after being dazed to mitigate damage? oh look they're dead. They give into so many cons to be able to perform a 1-shot; all you have to do is swap a trait or two or react fast enough and they fall apart. If you believe that your build is optimal and there should be no need for you to change and that anything that could possibly counter you is OP, well then you will continue to die. #Realize that you're only optimal in a meta; Out of a meta, you're just another build to be countered. *Too anyone crying about balance, this is probably the best balance ever seen in a game. You just have to open your eyes wide enough to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K THEN.5162 Posted November 17, 2017 Share Posted November 17, 2017 > @IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII.4836 said: Can confirm, was killed by a dredge mob after cancelling my mirror blade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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