A "don't waypoint when dead" fee?

[Shard.4791]

Dead players don't owe the other players anything. Let them stay dead if they wish. If they've acquired enough event participation to get lets say gold reward then why remove it? They already earned it.

[Tachenon.5270]

Yes, by all means, fee the non-waypointers. People with shiny armor and skill effects should pay a fee, too, for contributing to FPS loss and making it difficult for others to see the targets. Fees for everyone playing a charr or asura or male norn, because they detract from the esthetics of the game with the clipping tails and wobbly heads and male norn all looking like Brutus from old Popeye cartoons. Fee them all. Fees for those who have less than perfect builds or gear that doesn't eke out the last possible iota of damage. In fact, anybody in the game that does something with which I disagree with should pay a fee. More fees please.

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > Nothing you've said is optional. You want to tax players who choose to wait for a revive rather than running back.

>

> So waiting for a revive instead of running back is **playing** the game?

>

> > @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> > It's a terrible idea to tax players for **playing** the game in a way you don't like.

>

>

 

Yeah. And TP flipping is also how some people play the game too.

 

I trust by your comment that you also are against level 80 boost and WP unlock as well?

Yes or no.

 

I just want to make sure your definition of "playing the game" isn't a house of cards.

[Rauderi.8706]

Just to address the initial proposal and nothing else:

If you're going to insist someone pay to remove a player from an event just for being dead, then the offended player should have to pay twice the fee to port the defeated character to the nearest waypoint and fully repair that character's armor.

[daath.1725]

Just make a 1minute timer and then force WP the dead to the nearest WP and charge them double.

Or we can make them pay double the fee required to WP to the nearest WP when another player fully res them when the game register the player in participating in an event.

Problem solved.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> Yeah. And TP flipping is also how some people play the game too.

> I trust by your comment that you also are against level 80 boost and WP unlock as well?

 

TP flipping requires player action, in fact it requires a lot of player action.

Boosting and WP unlocks are irrelevant to the discussion (I'm not against them btw)

Being dead is the same as being afk

[ProverbsofHell.2307]

Nah. Nobody is at fault here and there is no problem at all.

 

1) They're dead for a legitimate reason (urgent afk or connection issue)

2) They're leeching because they're new and haven't deduced game etiquette yet

3) They're leeching and know it's looked down upon, in which case they're unreasonable and a lost cause anyway (perhaps behavior disorder IRL)

 

So nope, no problem and is fine as is.

[CharterforGw.3149]

> @daath.1725 said:

> Just make a 1minute timer and then force WP the dead to the nearest WP and charge them double.

> Or we can make them pay double the fee required to WP to the nearest WP when another player fully res them when the game register the player in participating in an event.

> Problem solved.

 

the second solution needs some elaborating. since it looks like you get a double fee for teleporting after being rezzed by someone during an event? which is a weird way to solve things.

 

Still think a fee is not the solution anyway, since the money you get from the event outweighs the cost of the WP, losing participation is a much better and smoother solution.

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> > Yeah. And TP flipping is also how some people play the game too.

> > I trust by your comment that you also are against level 80 boost and WP unlock as well?

>

> TP flipping requires player action, in fact it requires a lot of player action.

> Boosting and WP unlocks are irrelevant to the discussion (I'm not against them btw)

> Being dead is the same as being afk

 

So you are ok with people unlocking wps and leveling without playing the game to do so. But you are not ok with people laying dead actively sitting at the keyboard waiting for Rez?

 

Gotcha.

 

No dear, not irrelevant to the conversation. You sardonicaly brought up "active play" and now you don't like where it's headed.

[Aurelian Omenkind.2470]

> @Zeefa.3915 said:

> I do agree that people should learn to use nearest wp if possible at **some** events. But I think this idea of a fee or even teleport to nearest wp is horrible. Especially since you are saying this would not be limited to certain events like worldbosses, but everywhere.

>

> We don't know if the reason some might go afk/stay dead is something other than lazy... unexpected phonecall, baby crying, children fighting, dog acting up, cat demanding attention, parents calling you to do a chore... so many possible reasons people have to go temporarily afk in a hurry or being distracted. Valid reasons that should not be punished.

 

This. Please, people, remember that this is a game and not real life. Real life has a very insistent way of encroaching on our digital fun. If my kid starts barfing in the bathroom, I don’t give a rat’s patootie about some fight I’m doing in the game, I’m going to run to care for my kid. That means I’ll die and become that annoyance you so desperately want to fine somehow. So I should be punished for taking care of a REAL problem?

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

> @"Aurelian Omenkind.2470" said:

> > @Zeefa.3915 said:

> > I do agree that people should learn to use nearest wp if possible at **some** events. But I think this idea of a fee or even teleport to nearest wp is horrible. Especially since you are saying this would not be limited to certain events like worldbosses, but everywhere.

> >

> > We don't know if the reason some might go afk/stay dead is something other than lazy... unexpected phonecall, baby crying, children fighting, dog acting up, cat demanding attention, parents calling you to do a chore... so many possible reasons people have to go temporarily afk in a hurry or being distracted. Valid reasons that should not be punished.

>

> This. Please, people, remember that this is a game and not real life. Real life has a very insistent way of encroaching on our digital fun. If my kid starts barfing in the bathroom, I don’t give a rat’s patootie about some fight I’m doing in the game, I’m going to run to care for my kid. That means I’ll die and become that annoyance you so desperately want to fine somehow. So I should be punished for taking care of a REAL problem?

 

When my son was born I was playing gw1, we were doing urgoz (endgame mission) and I was the tank.

 

Was like brb baby

 

Got kicked and OMG the rage in whispers.

Came back ams started a new group, cleared it. Old group was still in party window lfg .

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> So you are ok with people unlocking wps and leveling without playing the game to do so. But you are not ok with people laying dead actively sitting at the keyboard waiting for Rez?

 

Someone who unlocks all waypoints or uses a booster to 80 and someone who is afk DURING an event are entirely different things.

Unlocking all waypoints and using a booster is an instant click, it's not "playing" the game, because it's a single click, then you go and play the game afterwards. A dead player during an event is not playing the game while dead, and while the event is in progress and other players are finishing it. And after the afk period the player in question even gets access to the same rewards as everyone who was active during the event. That's exactly what leeching in an event is.

 

Check this out, it was posted earlier in the thread, old data but still valid:

 

Note the following in that link:

> -Dead players upscale events at least for 15 minutes.

> -Moving away downscales the boss even if you have tagged it.

 

Dead players not only leech and not contribute in the event while others are finishing it, but they are actively making the event harder for those other players. Finally, dead players clutter the screen making it hard to see downed players to help them.

It's rude and inconsiderate behavior towards others.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Aurelian Omenkind.2470" said:

> This. Please, people, remember that this is a game and not real life. Real life has a very insistent way of encroaching on our digital fun. If my kid starts barfing in the bathroom, I don’t give a rat’s patootie about some fight I’m doing in the game, I’m going to run to care for my kid. That means I’ll die and become that annoyance you so desperately want to fine somehow. So I should be punished for taking care of a REAL problem?

 

This argument would make any kind of sense if a few players abused the dead state. You can't possibly expect me to believe that half the squad has RL issues at the exact moment the world boss spawns. Plus, it has been proposed already to auto-port the player away to the nearest waypoint without the need to press anything.

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> > So you are ok with people unlocking wps and leveling without playing the game to do so. But you are not ok with people laying dead actively sitting at the keyboard waiting for Rez?

>

> Someone who unlocks all waypoints or uses a booster to 80 and someone who is afk DURING an event are entirely different things.

> Unlocking all waypoints and using a booster is an instant click, it's not "playing" the game, because it's a single click, then you go and play the game afterwards. A dead player during an event is not playing the game while dead, and while the event is in progress and other players are finishing it. And after the afk period the player in question even gets access to the same rewards as everyone who was active during the event. That's exactly what leeching in an event is.

>

> Check this out, it was posted earlier in the thread, old data but still valid:

>

>

> Note the following in that link:

> > -Dead players upscale events at least for 15 minutes.

> > -Moving away downscales the boss even if you have tagged it.

>

> Dead players not only leech and not contribute in the event while others are finishing it, but they are actively making the event harder for those other players. Finally, dead players clutter the screen making it hard to see downed players to help them.

> It's rude and inconsiderate behavior towards others.

 

All I hear is "someone played the game they paid money for in a manner *I* don't like. Plz punish."

 

Besides, I see people complaining all the time about how there's no hard content. Now you have players who are being generous enough to give you harder events. Win win.

[Tachenon.5270]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> > So you are ok with people unlocking wps and leveling without playing the game to do so. But you are not ok with people laying dead actively sitting at the keyboard waiting for Rez?

>

> Someone who unlocks all waypoints or uses a booster to 80 and someone who is afk DURING an event are entirely different things.

> Unlocking all waypoints and using a booster is an instant click, it's not "playing" the game, because it's a single click, then you go and play the game afterwards. A dead player during an event is not playing the game while dead, and while the event is in progress and other players are finishing it. And after the afk period the player in question even gets access to the same rewards as everyone who was active during the event. That's exactly what leeching in an event is.

>

> Check this out, it was posted earlier in the thread, old data but still valid:

>

>

> Note the following in that link:

> > -Dead players upscale events at least for 15 minutes.

> > -Moving away downscales the boss even if you have tagged it.

>

> Dead players not only leech and not contribute in the event while others are finishing it, but they are actively making the event harder for those other players. Finally, dead players clutter the screen making it hard to see downed players to help them.

> It's rude and inconsiderate behavior towards others.

 

So, in your estimation, it would more beneficial for all concerned for the devs to institute this proposed fee for non-waypointers, rather than them making it so that the dead don't contribute to scaling. So noted. Carry on.

[Omar Aschi Popp.7496]

For the record, I also hate non waypointers, but I would NEVER go so far as to demand developer time into punishing them out of what can only be the highest form of petty spite.

 

What are we a bunch of Randalls?

[sacredninja.5236]

In WvW, players are not able to res a dead player while in combat, so... as this system already exists, why not use it during events like world bosses?

Disable resurrecting (completely) defeated players, while people are in combat, this way they can only be ressed after the fight/even is over. So, the longer the fight take after they die, the will have less or no participation left, seems like a good incentive to WP.

It also means, ppl that died near the end of the fight/even, would not have lost to much participation.

[Erulogos.2591]

> @Walhalla.5473 said:

> Unless Anet changed something dead players still scale events up, so it wouldn't just be rude to sit there dead you would punish the rest of the players by making the event harder by just lying there. So. I would support OPs suggestion.

 

This is my understanding as well, and the most frequently cited reason for 'WP if dead'. If this still holds, staying a corpse in a fight borders on griefing (I say borders on because many fights do have situations where it wouldn't be, dying when the patriarch in VB is near death or something, but if a boss is above 25% health when you eat dirt just laying there making things harder for the living is rude.)

[Shard.4791]

Anet having dead people upscale events is rude. Change the mechanic don't punish players.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> > @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said:

> > > Yeah. And TP flipping is also how some people play the game too.

> > > I trust by your comment that you also are against level 80 boost and WP unlock as well?

> >

> > TP flipping requires player action, in fact it requires a lot of player action.

> > Boosting and WP unlocks are irrelevant to the discussion (I'm not against them btw)

> > Being dead is the same as being afk

>

> So you are ok with people unlocking wps and leveling without playing the game to do so. But you are not ok with people laying dead actively sitting at the keyboard waiting for Rez?

>

> Gotcha.

>

> No dear, not irrelevant to the conversation. You sardonicaly brought up "active play" and now you don't like where it's headed.

 

Using those waypoints and leveling scrolls requires player action in game, and does not scale events up. Lying afk, or dead, in an event requires no player action, and can scale events up.

 

 

That said, a new player on an instant level 80 who instant unlocks a wp into a level 80 area can scale up high level events without contributing much more than a dead character...he might even end up being that dead character.

[FrizzFreston.5290]

> @Shard.4791 said:

> Anet having dead people upscale events is rude. Change the mechanic don't punish players.

 

Yeah, thats what Im thinking too. If defeated people scale up the events upto the point that people get annoyed then it should be changed so that they don't scale up events.

 

Instead there seems to be a movement of towards punishing players for not being able to judge the situation correctly.

 

I have to bring PoF up again here, as waypointing in PoF can be several minutes away. As well as other out of reach areas, like the end of any minidungeon.

 

As that problem persists this punishment/autowaypointing solution is really not a good idea at all. No attempt has been made to address the obvious issues with this idea anyway, so I think anyone can safely say that other less invasive methods of this supposed problem are alot better.

[IvarEriksson.2498]

> @Healix.5819 said:

> For events, they could just have the inactivity timer kick in after 30 seconds of staying dead, which would disable the rewards. Alternatively they could use the 60s logout warning, which would kick them out. The core problem however is the lack of a proper contribution meter. What's the point in preventing people from staying dead when other people are AFK on the side?

 

Now that is a suggestion i like!

[RoseofGilead.8907]

I, too, get annoyed by players who won't just waypoint if they are defeated during a major event. But I think the idea of charging them a fine for not waypointing is just silly and petty. I'd rather see the scaling better tuned than see some weird extra punishment on the players.

[Ashen.2907]

The only time Ive really been annoyed with people not waypointing has been at the Arah event where they are literally lying adjacent to an uncontested WP.

[FrizzFreston.5290]

> @Ashen.2907 said:

> The only time Ive really been annoyed with people not waypointing has been at the Arah event where they are literally lying adjacent to an uncontested WP.

 

Well 100 times getting rezzed instead of waypointing.. even when right next to it.. is about 1.1-1.3 gold

 

My main having well over 2000 deaths, lets say half to a quarter of that is in a situation where id have to pay waypoint.. thats like 11-13 gold to 5.5-6.5 gold! Think of the profit!