What is the mother of all issues in WvW ?

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

We have reasonable but unrealistic expectations of what ANet can do and how quickly. It's expensive for them to make any changes to the game mode, and tricky ones are terribly expensive. No matter how hard they work on it, they are bound to get some stuff right *and* just enough stuff wrong that lots and lots of people will be up in arms. But they aren't able to evolve the mode as quickly as we are able to evolve to adjust to either (a) take advantage of the new rules/mechanics or (b) give up on the new rules/mechanics.

 

Plus, there are so many different points of view about what WvW is supposed to be that it's nearly impossible for them to get it right in the first place. Is the mode supposed to be about large scale battles? About lots of smaller skirmishes? About taking and holding objectives? Or about winning PPT? Is it supposed to encompass GvG or not? Is EB really better than Borderlands or does it just attract people who like the obvious battles more than the longer-term strategies? (and the first group just outnumbers the second enough to make it difficult to tell what we prefer)

 

What I'd like to see, despite my suspicions that it can't be done, is for ANet to approach WvW as an Agile project. Try releasing smaller changes more often so that the mode is constantly offering us something new. Keep on keeping on with the stuff we seem to like and give up on the stuff we seem to hate. Find some key focus groups of the different sorts of WvWarriors and check in with them frequently about what they think.

 

It's doubtful that this will end up resolving the major issues identified by the OP, but I'm not sure that there are any good solutions for those. If I'm correct, then it would be better for ANet to spend some time making sure all the smaller stuff is more fun or has better QoL. That will buy them some good will and some time to also work on the big stuff.

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

I voted other, I didn't see the option for just Scourges. They have effectively nailed the coffin lid. AoE should not be mobile.

[Trajan.4953]

Oh Please, Condis and boons are a retarded numbers play versus skill play. Smarten up.

[Cuddy.6247]

> @LegoBrave.6147 said:

> Busy night on my server the other night, till WVW crashed.. all the time.

> Yawn pirate ship.

> EBG is the most fun, till skill lag hits and you can't cast. Then running around fighting no one in BLs is more fun... than going to the dentist.

> TL;DR - FIX YOUR SERVERS. FIX THE CRASHES. BAN PIRATE SHIP.

>

> I'm almost to the point I don't care about servers, can I just log in, have 3 EBG's and fight with my guild against every other guild in the game and have a blast?

>

> How does 40 v 40 v 40 instances sound. Better than this current game mode. wvw instances. The way to go?

 

A lot of instability lately is surrounded by a supposed ddos. Dunno how accurate it is, but tracing ping routes show a lot of packet loss. If you were still having connectivity issues prior to the most recent surge (around 2 weeks and maybe ongoing), could be your internet there. :)

[Cuddy.6247]

> @Svarty.8019 said:

> I voted Other, because my issue is that **the developers are never enthusiastic about WvW**.

> There hasn't been word of any update since O'Brien [spouted his excuse](

"spouted his excuse") for the expac being utterly devoid of WvW content, "This year we also took a different approach with PvP and WvW releases. In PvE, we make fresh new content with the goal of surprising and delighting you with our work, but in competitive modes, the community owns the game modes and chooses what we work on, and we definitely shouldn’t be surprising you with where we take those game modes. Instead our goal this year was to develop more incrementally, test with the community on Live, and take feedback every step of the way."

> - Which doesn't read like, "**We're not doing anything**", until you combine, "we definitely shouldn't be surprising you", with utter silence.

>

> Whenever there is a video the developers always look reluctant to talk about WvW and mumble their way through it. I guess it's hard to go to work and give a toss at the same time, but it'd be nice to at least see them _try_ to look like they enjoy it.

>

 

To be honest if WvW didn't have reward tracks and skirmish tickets I'd never set foot in it either. PvP isn't so bad if you aren't on a streak of bad luck.

[Trajan.4953]

Burn it all down and bring back what made it great.

[Coldtart.4785]

There's two main categories of players in wvw: ones that want fights (of any scale) and those that want to get the most score. Both tend to argue with each other about which one is violating their game mode but the real issue is that these things are separate in the first place. When you win by avoiding fights, what hope is there for good fights?

[Reaper Alim.4176]

> @Coldtart.4785 said:

> There's two main categories of players in wvw: ones that want fights (of any scale) and those that want to get the most score. Both tend to argue with each other about which one is violating their game mode but the real issue is that these things are separate in the first place. When you win by avoiding fights, what hope is there for good fights?

 

Truth is, absolutely zero. But can people really handle that truth? Don't look so promising to me. Anyways WvW these days is mostly a yawn a thon fest. Take away the ascended and legendary PvE rewards and watch WvW population completely collapse faster than $20 boobie seller. Same goes for PvP modes as well.

[joneirikb.7506]

I'm tempted to say "Players" as well, but I think that too is a (large) symptom of the problem.

 

Put very simple: Players are willing to overlook many small faults and problems, as long as they have fun and enjoys the gameplay. So it is when players stops having fun with the gameplay that they start noticing and getting annoyed at the many problems with WvW.

 

If the game was just simply fun, no matter if you died or won, got ganked or narrowly escaped or dominated etc. People likely wouldn't care as much about all the other things. If people just had fun going out there, they wouldn't care about "we're under in points, we've lost this week." etc.

 

Granted that is probably the single hardest thing to get right. And what is fun is subjective to each person.

 

Unfortunately I have no idea what I'd do to improve this, and if I did, it would likely be a solution that would only solve it for me personally.

[Rennie.6750]

Roamers. I'm tired of selfish roamers expecting a 100 vs 100 vs 100 map to be tailored for them only. Of course people are going to band together to achieve things in a large scale event. That's what humans do.

[Flarre.4850]

All of them perhaps

[Ulion.5476]

If you remove smale scale play wvw would turn into Eotm. Eotm is not a place were any serious wvwer goes. Wvw is a steady ramp up of players to accomplish large goals. You may log on during primetime and see players defending a t3 keep. That keep could have been taken by a small group of players. More player logon and started to build it up the defenses of that keep. Then the primetime zergs logs on.

 

The pve objective are suppose to be places that attract fights. While the pvp and class balance aspects determine how enjoyable players/professions are having during those fights. If their are to many class imbalances then the fights stop being fun. Still the biggest issue for me is coverage. Some timezones end up having to many one-sided fights. You can only do so much when you a 1v1 turns into a 1v4 anytime you engage someone or your zerg gets crushed by a map blob because your server is the easiest one to target during that timezone.

[cpchow.7416]

The core issue is anet do not open bg. Open it and we can solve all the problem in WvW.

[Aeolus.3615]

Other, cause the core concept is what is at fault here, when u have something that does not work properly and if u had the misleading class/skill design, it creates all other problems listed above.

 

All other changes/implentation might be a bit misleading cause IF u guys noticed they never fixed what players were complaining nor what they were suposed to fix, sometimes they were the origin other issues as well.

 

 

**Advice:

Population discrepancy should not be a issue on AvA/RvR games, mechanics should be in place to create content arround that or to control excession of some behavior that might kill the game mode.**

 

[lgutsl.3257]

Server Lag/Skill Lag etc. Not sure how or if Anet could fix this but I couldn't even imagine how good WvW would be if 3 SMC map blobs could fight smoothly.

[Elementalist Owner.7802]

I voted other because "World Links ruined wvw" isn't an option. They should have (and still should) simply deleted some servers and allowed the players on those servers to have one free xfer.

[Freydinand.1073]

Arena net is blind and loosing people at own game. FOR me wvw is core of the game and only end game for playing this years!!!

[PassionWhisky.3457]

> @Cuddy.6247

 

u saying Power is the Problem ?! The Problem is more the Balance between Player on Servers (My Server EU Elona is Fighting right now vs 5 Servers) and the balance between the classes, Condi OP and the new Classes OP to, to much boon remove.. The issue are on all corners. Dont forget the Bugs on the Maps.

[Reaper Alim.4176]

> @Freydinand.1073 said:

> Arena net is blind and loosing people at own game. FOR me wvw is core of the game and only end game for playing this years!!!

 

I highly doubt ANet is blind. It's just that ANet considers the total loss of WvWers and PvPers. A acceptable sacrifice if it dies due to ANet making PvEers lives more joyful. (Hence the power creep in Elite specs. And the perversion of condition damaging in WvW.) Just look on the Reddit and the Guild War 2 Discussion forums. They are loving it, and feel like ANet's shit doesn't stink one bit.

 

The only ones who are being more or less purged are WvWers and PvPers. If yall really want Spellbreaker nerfed. Then yall are going to have to solo a raid boss with it. If yall can do, yall will see ANet completely nerf spellbreaker within a week's time. Just like Ghost Thief.

[STIHL.2489]

They are trying to make PvE builds work in a PvP Environment.

[Hansen.3264]

To much dps/ close to instant 1 shot kills

Cheese builds allowed in wvw

make some cap on pwer/dps condi in wvw and seperate it from pve

[takatsu.9416]

I'd like to see more server or tier and match up distinctions and identity ... Right now you have no idea about chemistry and the kind of experience you'd get etc. More selfishly speaking if I want to have more of a roaming and small skirmish experience , smaller servers or lower tier match ups don't really have such an identity or offer such things. What exactly are the characteristics of the tiers and different styles of servers and so on. It's all kind of hit and miss and chaotic out there. Especially if you start talking about the lock on high pop servers and people looking for proper fights, fight guilds and so on. All of that to me right now is a mess and we need a much better system or process.

 

I disagree with class balance issues and find it a constantly fluctuating situation, with new specs and occasional balance patches, new meta gear stats and more. It definitely continues to evolve. We see how quickly things fall into meta to dominate and how it falls out too.

 

In all the fights I've been in I can clearly see it's a game of skill. Even if I can pull off an instant down burst, it does not work on a majority of experienced, thoughtful, decent players and builds. You won't be able to get away with it. If I do get burst down I also know exactly why and how I should respond or react next time. Being alert of surroundings and seeing that player come in and pop stealth and then giving the right amount of time before throwing on my block or evades or getting far away. Or just barely mistiming my evade got me a heavy hit. Or even the cast time on a skill was slightly later. Sometimes you get some 1vX situations suddenly and learning when to disengage and run helped me. Sometimes I down one of them and I need to learn to not rush that finish when things are too tight. As a skilled player or a player who has the open mind to learn, you notice these things and you improve. Of course also understanding a part of it is up to luck too.

 

I don't think class balance is a huge issue. Yes there are some things to iron out but it's not what I would blame. I've seen almost every class on the field and there are some excellent players of every class who won't go down easy without a good fight. I have experienced that it is still a game of skill. Even the spellbreaker that I had some complaints against is something I can deal with now after practice and careful observation. Scourge is not much of a problem for me. I am not confident in dealing with well built daredevils yet but with practice and learning how they work I've had some success

[Dukotje.4382]

The inapropriate way arenanet balanced conditions in WvW to correspond to PvE conditions, they are too strong, the "damage over time" is significantly higher then the spike dps you are able to drop.

 

deadeyes that crit you for 23k (i do run full zerker, shouldn't be a 1 shot still) and spellbrokers owning every fight. Scourges that can corrupt boons every fucking milisecond, applying more retarded condi's... and trailblazer stats.

 

limit condi application/corruption to a way how the new stab works, 0.75 second per boon to be able to corrupt/rip other then all boons in 0.01 second because you are touched in ways you didnt think possible

[Zephyr.8015]

I voted Other, and I feel as though WvW doesn't receive as much love from Anet as it should. There's a large portion of community in WvW, and we finally got rewards for things with the legendary armor and backpiece stuff. I feel that skirmish tickets need to be upped because farming like 7k skirmish tickets for legendary armor feels very daunting. As I am on Blackgate and the most hated server in existence, the one thing that we see from our perspective is that other servers don't have the community or organization that we have, which I will fully admit is not an easy task to tackle. But Blackgate as a server invests in its WvW community. Our WvW guilds work with each other and we communicate as a server. Roaming aka Havoc or small scale has a place in WvW and its great to have because you can have a large force occupying enemy forces and use a small force of like 10 to not proc swords and take things sneakily. I would love to see some balance for WvW as a whole, and I know for Anet that isn't something I'd expect to see, but I'd ideally like to see a balance team for every game type. I would also really like to see a 3rd map for WvW, 1 server gets Alpine, 1 gets desert, and 1 gets the 3rd map, and then Anet could even rotate said maps to make it even.

[Grim West.3194]

ANET dropped the ball with server balance as soon as the game was launched. And only made it worse over time with their server favoritism and cheesy transfer policies.

 

Class balance is a moving target that is regularly addressed. Server balance apparently is too hard for the DEVs, since they have never once tried to fix that most obvious problem in WvW.