Zacchary.6183 Posted November 5, 2017 Author Share Posted November 5, 2017 > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > > > > > If the OP wanted a real metric of the thread in question the pill should have been as follows. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Should dead players be punished for not wp?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Should Anet remove scaling from dead players?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is in truth what it all boils down to. Pick one. > > > > > > > ONE > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said in another comment, that's for another thread. Determining whether or not dead players should be forced to WP should be made after it becomes clear the majority wants them too. And even then it should be a consideration and not an absolute. > > > > > > > > > > ok but your questions cant prove that its clear players want that! > > > > > > > > That's not the point of this poll! Read before you comment! > > > > This poll is to see how much of the community prefers other wp and how much would rather not. This poll IS NOT about putting in a forced WP mechanism. > > > > > > I HAVE READ. It still doesnt make SENSE. your poll cant prove players prefer dead to wp because the 2nd option is a leading question and doesnt relate specifically to the first option presented. > > > > > > > The second option is a catchall. It is "No." in a nutshell. If you disagree that players should waypoint after they die, then you choose it. It is that simple. > > You are still not getting it. Your second option isnt a No they shouldn't wp. Its they shouldnt HAVE to wp which is an entirely different thing. Remove the HAVE and its a fine poll but right now its biased and has a leading question. > > Ill try and show you. I want to vote on BOTH options because I believe players should WP if they die, but also believe they should not HAVE to wp. My opinion falls under BOTH answers. Therefore they are not polar opposites of each other. (yes and no), they are asking about 2 different things (first one if people prefer players to wp, second if they think forced wp is bad) whereas they should only ask about 1 thing (pref to wp or pref to res) If you want to vote on both, do it on the other poll or make your own. I already explained multiple times why I am not doing a third option and stated that I am not making a new one. Either you think people should waypoint if they die or they should not have to. Both are preferences. Both are presented as preferences. That is the whole point of this poll: **To get preference data from the community to determine the side with the majority on this issue. Nothing else.** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosleepdemon.1368 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 Oh for crying out loud. Don't we have enough god damned them vs us crap going on in the world? Must everything be separated into us v.s. them? Honestly I am getting kind of sick of it all. This thread is no exception. Do you really think the developers would be so inept as to enforce a ridiculous solution to a non existent problem that would easily penalize honest players? When you die, you dun goofed. You are at the mercy of other players to rez you, or if you can wp quickly then that is obviously the best choice. It's a tough call and very situational, as it should be! The system is fine. The poll clearly needs a "this entire discussion is stupid" option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seera.5916 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > > > > > > If the OP wanted a real metric of the thread in question the pill should have been as follows. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Should dead players be punished for not wp?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Should Anet remove scaling from dead players?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is in truth what it all boils down to. Pick one. > > > > > > > > ONE > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said in another comment, that's for another thread. Determining whether or not dead players should be forced to WP should be made after it becomes clear the majority wants them too. And even then it should be a consideration and not an absolute. > > > > > > > > > > > > ok but your questions cant prove that its clear players want that! > > > > > > > > > > That's not the point of this poll! Read before you comment! > > > > > This poll is to see how much of the community prefers other wp and how much would rather not. This poll IS NOT about putting in a forced WP mechanism. > > > > > > > > I HAVE READ. It still doesnt make SENSE. your poll cant prove players prefer dead to wp because the 2nd option is a leading question and doesnt relate specifically to the first option presented. > > > > > > > > > > The second option is a catchall. It is "No." in a nutshell. If you disagree that players should waypoint after they die, then you choose it. It is that simple. > > > > You are still not getting it. Your second option isnt a No they shouldn't wp. Its they shouldnt HAVE to wp which is an entirely different thing. Remove the HAVE and its a fine poll but right now its biased and has a leading question. > > > > Ill try and show you. I want to vote on BOTH options because I believe players should WP if they die, but also believe they should not HAVE to wp. My opinion falls under BOTH answers. Therefore they are not polar opposites of each other. (yes and no), they are asking about 2 different things (first one if people prefer players to wp, second if they think forced wp is bad) whereas they should only ask about 1 thing (pref to wp or pref to res) > > If you want to vote on both, do it on the other poll or make your own. I already explained multiple times why I am not doing a third option and stated that I am not making a new one. Either you think people should waypoint if they die or they should not have to. Both are preferences. Both are presented as preferences. That is the whole point of this poll: **To get preference data from the community to determine the side with the majority on this issue. Nothing else.** I get the reason you don't want to include "depends", but any solution to the problem will affect the players who think it "depends". Especially if you're trying to claim that either Yes or No are the majority. You can't say that if you exclude the players who say it depends. Because we could be the majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombyturtle.5980 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > > > > > > If the OP wanted a real metric of the thread in question the pill should have been as follows. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Should dead players be punished for not wp?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Should Anet remove scaling from dead players?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is in truth what it all boils down to. Pick one. > > > > > > > > ONE > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said in another comment, that's for another thread. Determining whether or not dead players should be forced to WP should be made after it becomes clear the majority wants them too. And even then it should be a consideration and not an absolute. > > > > > > > > > > > > ok but your questions cant prove that its clear players want that! > > > > > > > > > > That's not the point of this poll! Read before you comment! > > > > > This poll is to see how much of the community prefers other wp and how much would rather not. This poll IS NOT about putting in a forced WP mechanism. > > > > > > > > I HAVE READ. It still doesnt make SENSE. your poll cant prove players prefer dead to wp because the 2nd option is a leading question and doesnt relate specifically to the first option presented. > > > > > > > > > > The second option is a catchall. It is "No." in a nutshell. If you disagree that players should waypoint after they die, then you choose it. It is that simple. > > > > You are still not getting it. Your second option isnt a No they shouldn't wp. Its they shouldnt HAVE to wp which is an entirely different thing. Remove the HAVE and its a fine poll but right now its biased and has a leading question. > > > > Ill try and show you. I want to vote on BOTH options because I believe players should WP if they die, but also believe they should not HAVE to wp. My opinion falls under BOTH answers. Therefore they are not polar opposites of each other. (yes and no), they are asking about 2 different things (first one if people prefer players to wp, second if they think forced wp is bad) whereas they should only ask about 1 thing (pref to wp or pref to res) > > If you want to vote on both, do it on the other poll or make your own. I already explained multiple times why I am not doing a third option and stated that I am not making a new one. Either you think people should waypoint if they die or they should not have to. Both are preferences. Both are presented as preferences. That is the whole point of this poll: **To get preference data from the community to determine the side with the majority on this issue. Nothing else.** I am abuot ready to give up since you clearly wont read (im not asking for a 3rd option), listen or cant understand but i will try 1 more time. **players should wp if they die players shouldnt wp if they die** -- these are 2 questions which are opposite of each other both of these are asking about what people prefer others to do when they die. they are yes/no to if people think you should wp (this is what you want to ask) **players should have to wp if they die players should not have to wp if they die** --these are 2 questions which are opposite to each other. both are asking about what people think dead people should be FORCED to do if they die. The inclusion of the word HAVE changes it to this scenario. They are essentially yes/no to if you think people should be forced to wp. What you have done in your poll is take 1 question from the first set, and 1 from the second. You have asked 1 question about 1 secnario and another about a totally different one. you will not get accurate answers to your question from your poll because they mix 2 different ideas. You need to change your second answer if you want accurate data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zacchary.6183 Posted November 5, 2017 Author Share Posted November 5, 2017 > @Seera.5916 said: > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > @Seera.5916 said: > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > > > If the OP wanted a real metric of the thread in question the pill should have been as follows. > > > > > > > > > > "Should dead players be punished for not wp?" > > > > > > > > > > "Should Anet remove scaling from dead players?" > > > > > > > > > > This is in truth what it all boils down to. Pick one. > > > > > ONE > > > > > > > > Like I said in another comment, that's for another thread. Determining whether or not dead players should be forced to WP should be made after it becomes clear the majority wants them too. And even then it should be a consideration and not an absolute. > > > > > > You can't keep people from elaborating on their choice in the vote since you way oversimplified the voting options. Especially given the bias in the poll options. > > > > > > If you really wanted an even remotely poll here's what it should have been: > > > > > > "Should players waypoint if they die during events or wait for a rez?" > > > > > > With answer choices being: > > > - Yes > > > - Depends (elaborate in comment) > > > - No > > > > > > Then from there if you were going to make a more detailed poll later, you've got more details for what options to put in, especially if depends wins. > > > > > > You might not have _meant_ for there to be a bias in the poll, but the word choice and the lack of a middle ground in an area that's CLEARLY shown that there's a middle ground means that the poll will be biased towards your personal opinion. > > > > Biased? Really? Because if I put Depends in there and it becomes the majority (which it most likely will be), then that means that each case has to be handled individually making fixing the core issue impossible. This goes against what I am trying to accomplish. So I stay by what I said. > > Because it _is_ something that has to be handled individually. Because each mega event is unique with regards to distance from non-contested waypoint and speed at which it dies. > > Should players really be sent to a waypoint if they die during the last 5% of Shatterer due to a stupid mistake and Shatterer deciding at that time that he needs to spawn the portals and therefore not die in 30 seconds? > > Should the player who is new to HoT areas who managed to actually stick with the zerg waypoint after dying and risk not being able to find the main boss area again or reach it before the end of the event? > > Should players who die right at the beginning of Tequatl waypoint? Shadow Behemoth? > > Like I said, you might not have meant for there to be bias, but it's there. "Players should waypoint" and "Players should not have to waypoint" were the options. The first option doesn't voice it as an absolute. Your second options voices it as an absolute. People tend to not like absolutes, in general - biasing the votes. Better wording would be: "Players should waypoint" and "Players can ask and wait for a rez". > > And the dead not waypointing is actually not the core issue. It's a problem that stems from a couple other problems: > > 1. Fully dead not getting lowest priority if there are multiple interactables in range. > 2. Fully dead keep events upscaled > > If the above 2 problems got addressed, would this even really be an issue? The second one is not an absolute because it implies that a person has the choice whether or not to waypoint regardless if everyone tells them to. If I took out the "have" (and "to" for grammar purposes), it would read "Players should NOT waypoint during and event." and go against players who > @Seera.5916 said: > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > > > > > > > If the OP wanted a real metric of the thread in question the pill should have been as follows. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Should dead players be punished for not wp?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Should Anet remove scaling from dead players?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is in truth what it all boils down to. Pick one. > > > > > > > > > ONE > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said in another comment, that's for another thread. Determining whether or not dead players should be forced to WP should be made after it becomes clear the majority wants them too. And even then it should be a consideration and not an absolute. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ok but your questions cant prove that its clear players want that! > > > > > > > > > > > > That's not the point of this poll! Read before you comment! > > > > > > This poll is to see how much of the community prefers other wp and how much would rather not. This poll IS NOT about putting in a forced WP mechanism. > > > > > > > > > > I HAVE READ. It still doesnt make SENSE. your poll cant prove players prefer dead to wp because the 2nd option is a leading question and doesnt relate specifically to the first option presented. > > > > > > > > > > > > > The second option is a catchall. It is "No." in a nutshell. If you disagree that players should waypoint after they die, then you choose it. It is that simple. > > > > > > You are still not getting it. Your second option isnt a No they shouldn't wp. Its they shouldnt HAVE to wp which is an entirely different thing. Remove the HAVE and its a fine poll but right now its biased and has a leading question. > > > > > > Ill try and show you. I want to vote on BOTH options because I believe players should WP if they die, but also believe they should not HAVE to wp. My opinion falls under BOTH answers. Therefore they are not polar opposites of each other. (yes and no), they are asking about 2 different things (first one if people prefer players to wp, second if they think forced wp is bad) whereas they should only ask about 1 thing (pref to wp or pref to res) > > > > If you want to vote on both, do it on the other poll or make your own. I already explained multiple times why I am not doing a third option and stated that I am not making a new one. Either you think people should waypoint if they die or they should not have to. Both are preferences. Both are presented as preferences. That is the whole point of this poll: **To get preference data from the community to determine the side with the majority on this issue. Nothing else.** > I get the reason you don't want to include "depends", but any solution to the problem will affect the players who think it "depends". Especially if you're trying to claim that either Yes or No are the majority. You can't say that if you exclude the players who say it depends. Because we could be the majority. But the thing is, if "depends" is the majority and everything has to be solved on an individual basis then nothing is going to change because the community is already doing that. If I gave the depends option, it turns the poll into a popularity poll and it accomplishes nothing. For problems like these, compromise has to be made or else the issue remains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben K.6238 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 I suppose I might be confusing "should not" with "do not". No-one's obliged to res other players, and those players aren't obliged to waypoint. I certainly don't pay waypoint fees if my presence or absence isn't going to decide the outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zacchary.6183 Posted November 5, 2017 Author Share Posted November 5, 2017 > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > > > > > > > If the OP wanted a real metric of the thread in question the pill should have been as follows. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Should dead players be punished for not wp?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Should Anet remove scaling from dead players?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is in truth what it all boils down to. Pick one. > > > > > > > > > ONE > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said in another comment, that's for another thread. Determining whether or not dead players should be forced to WP should be made after it becomes clear the majority wants them too. And even then it should be a consideration and not an absolute. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ok but your questions cant prove that its clear players want that! > > > > > > > > > > > > That's not the point of this poll! Read before you comment! > > > > > > This poll is to see how much of the community prefers other wp and how much would rather not. This poll IS NOT about putting in a forced WP mechanism. > > > > > > > > > > I HAVE READ. It still doesnt make SENSE. your poll cant prove players prefer dead to wp because the 2nd option is a leading question and doesnt relate specifically to the first option presented. > > > > > > > > > > > > > The second option is a catchall. It is "No." in a nutshell. If you disagree that players should waypoint after they die, then you choose it. It is that simple. > > > > > > You are still not getting it. Your second option isnt a No they shouldn't wp. Its they shouldnt HAVE to wp which is an entirely different thing. Remove the HAVE and its a fine poll but right now its biased and has a leading question. > > > > > > Ill try and show you. I want to vote on BOTH options because I believe players should WP if they die, but also believe they should not HAVE to wp. My opinion falls under BOTH answers. Therefore they are not polar opposites of each other. (yes and no), they are asking about 2 different things (first one if people prefer players to wp, second if they think forced wp is bad) whereas they should only ask about 1 thing (pref to wp or pref to res) > > > > If you want to vote on both, do it on the other poll or make your own. I already explained multiple times why I am not doing a third option and stated that I am not making a new one. Either you think people should waypoint if they die or they should not have to. Both are preferences. Both are presented as preferences. That is the whole point of this poll: **To get preference data from the community to determine the side with the majority on this issue. Nothing else.** > > I am abuot ready to give up since you clearly wont read (im not asking for a 3rd option), listen or cant understand but i will try 1 more time. > > > **players should wp if they die > players shouldnt wp if they die** -- these are 2 questions which are opposite of each other both of these are asking about what people prefer others to do when they die. they are yes/no to if people think you should wp (this is what you want to ask) > > > **players should have to wp if they die > players should not have to wp if they die** --these are 2 questions which are opposite to each other. both are asking about what people think dead people should be FORCED to do if they die. The inclusion of the word HAVE changes it to this scenario. They are essentially yes/no to if you think people should be forced to wp. > > What you have done in your poll is take 1 question from the first set, and 1 from the second. > You have asked 1 question about 1 secnario and another about a totally different one. > > you will not get accurate answers to your question from your poll because they mix 2 different ideas. You need to change your second answer if you want accurate data. Okay, now you are twisting everything up. How about you put "I believe" in front of both of them and read them that way? Because that is exactly what the context of the options are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seera.5916 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > @Seera.5916 said: > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > @Seera.5916 said: > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > > > > If the OP wanted a real metric of the thread in question the pill should have been as follows. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Should dead players be punished for not wp?" > > > > > > > > > > > > "Should Anet remove scaling from dead players?" > > > > > > > > > > > > This is in truth what it all boils down to. Pick one. > > > > > > ONE > > > > > > > > > > Like I said in another comment, that's for another thread. Determining whether or not dead players should be forced to WP should be made after it becomes clear the majority wants them too. And even then it should be a consideration and not an absolute. > > > > > > > > You can't keep people from elaborating on their choice in the vote since you way oversimplified the voting options. Especially given the bias in the poll options. > > > > > > > > If you really wanted an even remotely poll here's what it should have been: > > > > > > > > "Should players waypoint if they die during events or wait for a rez?" > > > > > > > > With answer choices being: > > > > - Yes > > > > - Depends (elaborate in comment) > > > > - No > > > > > > > > Then from there if you were going to make a more detailed poll later, you've got more details for what options to put in, especially if depends wins. > > > > > > > > You might not have _meant_ for there to be a bias in the poll, but the word choice and the lack of a middle ground in an area that's CLEARLY shown that there's a middle ground means that the poll will be biased towards your personal opinion. > > > > > > Biased? Really? Because if I put Depends in there and it becomes the majority (which it most likely will be), then that means that each case has to be handled individually making fixing the core issue impossible. This goes against what I am trying to accomplish. So I stay by what I said. > > > > Because it _is_ something that has to be handled individually. Because each mega event is unique with regards to distance from non-contested waypoint and speed at which it dies. > > > > Should players really be sent to a waypoint if they die during the last 5% of Shatterer due to a stupid mistake and Shatterer deciding at that time that he needs to spawn the portals and therefore not die in 30 seconds? > > > > Should the player who is new to HoT areas who managed to actually stick with the zerg waypoint after dying and risk not being able to find the main boss area again or reach it before the end of the event? > > > > Should players who die right at the beginning of Tequatl waypoint? Shadow Behemoth? > > > > Like I said, you might not have meant for there to be bias, but it's there. "Players should waypoint" and "Players should not have to waypoint" were the options. The first option doesn't voice it as an absolute. Your second options voices it as an absolute. People tend to not like absolutes, in general - biasing the votes. Better wording would be: "Players should waypoint" and "Players can ask and wait for a rez". > > > > And the dead not waypointing is actually not the core issue. It's a problem that stems from a couple other problems: > > > > 1. Fully dead not getting lowest priority if there are multiple interactables in range. > > 2. Fully dead keep events upscaled > > > > If the above 2 problems got addressed, would this even really be an issue? > > The second one is not an absolute because it implies that a person has the choice whether or not to waypoint regardless if everyone tells them to. If I took out the "have" (and "to" for grammar purposes), it would read "Players should NOT waypoint during and event." and go against players who > @Seera.5916 said: > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > > > > > > > > If the OP wanted a real metric of the thread in question the pill should have been as follows. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Should dead players be punished for not wp?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Should Anet remove scaling from dead players?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is in truth what it all boils down to. Pick one. > > > > > > > > > > ONE > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said in another comment, that's for another thread. Determining whether or not dead players should be forced to WP should be made after it becomes clear the majority wants them too. And even then it should be a consideration and not an absolute. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ok but your questions cant prove that its clear players want that! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's not the point of this poll! Read before you comment! > > > > > > > This poll is to see how much of the community prefers other wp and how much would rather not. This poll IS NOT about putting in a forced WP mechanism. > > > > > > > > > > > > I HAVE READ. It still doesnt make SENSE. your poll cant prove players prefer dead to wp because the 2nd option is a leading question and doesnt relate specifically to the first option presented. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The second option is a catchall. It is "No." in a nutshell. If you disagree that players should waypoint after they die, then you choose it. It is that simple. > > > > > > > > You are still not getting it. Your second option isnt a No they shouldn't wp. Its they shouldnt HAVE to wp which is an entirely different thing. Remove the HAVE and its a fine poll but right now its biased and has a leading question. > > > > > > > > Ill try and show you. I want to vote on BOTH options because I believe players should WP if they die, but also believe they should not HAVE to wp. My opinion falls under BOTH answers. Therefore they are not polar opposites of each other. (yes and no), they are asking about 2 different things (first one if people prefer players to wp, second if they think forced wp is bad) whereas they should only ask about 1 thing (pref to wp or pref to res) > > > > > > If you want to vote on both, do it on the other poll or make your own. I already explained multiple times why I am not doing a third option and stated that I am not making a new one. Either you think people should waypoint if they die or they should not have to. Both are preferences. Both are presented as preferences. That is the whole point of this poll: **To get preference data from the community to determine the side with the majority on this issue. Nothing else.** > > > > I get the reason you don't want to include "depends", but any solution to the problem will affect the players who think it "depends". Especially if you're trying to claim that either Yes or No are the majority. You can't say that if you exclude the players who say it depends. Because we could be the majority. > > But the thing is, if "depends" is the majority and everything has to be solved on an individual basis then nothing is going to change because the community is already doing that. If I gave the depends option, it turns the poll into a popularity poll and it accomplishes nothing. > > For problems like these, compromise has to be made or else the issue remains. When the phrase "have to" is put next to a verb it's an absolute. There's no choice. I have to go to work if I want to keep my job. I have to pay my electric bill if I want to keep the lights on. I have to eat if I want to stay alive. There are things that have no good answer. Like the ability to kick players. No matter how ANet decides to do it, there will always be problems with it. How it is now, anyone can kick for any reason. Making it easier for players to take over a party. If you remove the ability to kick all together then jerks and other such players can't be removed and can get away with bad behavior if they wait long enough. If you put it to leader only, then how does one decide leadership if the current leader leaves the party suddenly and groups are left at the mercy of leaders who may not be very nice (they may be those aforementioned jerks and other such players). Anything that has to do with controlling player behavior isn't going to have a good solution. In this instance there is a solution that doesn't involve compromise. Fix the dead keeping events upscaled. Create a priority system that puts rezzing fully dead behind other intractable things in range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombyturtle.5980 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > > > @zombyturtle.5980 said: > > > > > > > > > @Zacchary.6183 said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > > > > > > > > If the OP wanted a real metric of the thread in question the pill should have been as follows. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Should dead players be punished for not wp?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Should Anet remove scaling from dead players?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is in truth what it all boils down to. Pick one. > > > > > > > > > > ONE > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like I said in another comment, that's for another thread. Determining whether or not dead players should be forced to WP should be made after it becomes clear the majority wants them too. And even then it should be a consideration and not an absolute. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ok but your questions cant prove that its clear players want that! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's not the point of this poll! Read before you comment! > > > > > > > This poll is to see how much of the community prefers other wp and how much would rather not. This poll IS NOT about putting in a forced WP mechanism. > > > > > > > > > > > > I HAVE READ. It still doesnt make SENSE. your poll cant prove players prefer dead to wp because the 2nd option is a leading question and doesnt relate specifically to the first option presented. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The second option is a catchall. It is "No." in a nutshell. If you disagree that players should waypoint after they die, then you choose it. It is that simple. > > > > > > > > You are still not getting it. Your second option isnt a No they shouldn't wp. Its they shouldnt HAVE to wp which is an entirely different thing. Remove the HAVE and its a fine poll but right now its biased and has a leading question. > > > > > > > > Ill try and show you. I want to vote on BOTH options because I believe players should WP if they die, but also believe they should not HAVE to wp. My opinion falls under BOTH answers. Therefore they are not polar opposites of each other. (yes and no), they are asking about 2 different things (first one if people prefer players to wp, second if they think forced wp is bad) whereas they should only ask about 1 thing (pref to wp or pref to res) > > > > > > If you want to vote on both, do it on the other poll or make your own. I already explained multiple times why I am not doing a third option and stated that I am not making a new one. Either you think people should waypoint if they die or they should not have to. Both are preferences. Both are presented as preferences. That is the whole point of this poll: **To get preference data from the community to determine the side with the majority on this issue. Nothing else.** > > > > I am abuot ready to give up since you clearly wont read (im not asking for a 3rd option), listen or cant understand but i will try 1 more time. > > > > > > **players should wp if they die > > players shouldnt wp if they die** -- these are 2 questions which are opposite of each other both of these are asking about what people prefer others to do when they die. they are yes/no to if people think you should wp (this is what you want to ask) > > > > > > **players should have to wp if they die > > players should not have to wp if they die** --these are 2 questions which are opposite to each other. both are asking about what people think dead people should be FORCED to do if they die. The inclusion of the word HAVE changes it to this scenario. They are essentially yes/no to if you think people should be forced to wp. > > > > What you have done in your poll is take 1 question from the first set, and 1 from the second. > > You have asked 1 question about 1 secnario and another about a totally different one. > > > > you will not get accurate answers to your question from your poll because they mix 2 different ideas. You need to change your second answer if you want accurate data. > > Okay, now you are twisting everything up. How about you put "I believe" in front of both of them and read them that way? Because that is exactly what the context of the options are. I havnt twisted anything. I have written exactly the 2 answers you have in your poll. If you HAVE to do something you are forced. You must do it. There is no option. Your poll doesnt imply there is a choice in the second answer. If you dont understand the meaning of the word have then idk what I can say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosleepdemon.1368 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 This thread is such a trainwreck. Sometimes one should wp, other times they should wait for a rez. It depends on the situation. Mmm but no: We must have two sides shouting at each other in the name of "collecting data". Sounds like someone just wants to have their ego validated. Can't you guys take this somewhere more appropriate for deliberately polarising complex problems? Like, twitter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omar Aschi Popp.7496 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 > @nosleepdemon.1368 said: > Oh for crying out loud. Don't we have enough god damned them vs us crap going on in the world? Must everything be separated into us v.s. them? Honestly I am getting kind of sick of it all. This thread is no exception. Do you really think the developers would be so inept as to enforce a ridiculous solution to a non existent problem that would easily penalize honest players? When you die, you dun goofed. You are at the mercy of other players to rez you, or if you can wp quickly then that is obviously the best choice. It's a tough call and very situational, as it should be! The system is fine. The poll clearly needs a "this entire discussion is stupid" option. Underrated comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HnRkLnXqZ.1870 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 Why have you created a 2nd thread? The first one had many good points in it. And we have seen what happens if people start opening multiple posts of the same topic, they get locked/deleted. I appreciate your motivation to solve the entire conflict with a simple yes or no question. But the first topic alredy proved, that it is not a simple yes or no question. The original post was a huge collection of different opinions and gave us insight in different points of view. The final result should be: "It seems to be a big problem. We should find a solution for it." Which already happens. I have seen different attempts of people solving the problem. Some were noisy, some were patient. Solving the problem will take time. And once the next expansion is out and we get flooded with returners/newbies again, it will appear again. Will you make another poll again? EDIT: I just saw someone made a 2nd poll, yet a 3rd thread. Dear moderators, do what you have to do ^^. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksander Suburb.4287 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 My best situation was someone asking me for a rez while I fought. And this someone lies 5 seconds away of the wvw-spawn. Finally we rezzed him with 2 peoples after 2 minutes fight. He could port and run back 20 times -.- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 > @HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said: > The final result should be: "It seems to be a big problem. We should find a solution for it." Those who don't want anything to change probably don't think it's a "problem". I guess the best poll question (with an easy yes/no answer) is: Dead people not waypointing are a problem or not? (on specific cases and not always)" but since there are already 2 polls and 3 threads on the subject maybe a bit later :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayakaru.6583 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 Youre wrong in one of your bullets, Its usually MUCH faster to run back than rez someone who’s fully dead. Whats worse is, that if someone’s fully dead, rezzing them means there are two people removed from the fight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dashiva.6149 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 I voted that players "should not", but the correct answer is "play however you want". Players who don't WP doesn't technically break any rules. This whole topic feels more like people who want to force other people to play a certain way that fits their preferences. Having dead player unintentionally scale up certain content could be a problem, that is true, but truth be told it has been a _long_ time since I felt I had an event fail because of dead players specifically. How big of a problem is it _really_? Edit: On the flip side, isn't it another, but related problem that players can quickly WP and keep throwing their bodies until they succeed since death has so low impact in this game? Food for thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilgamesh VII.8690 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 During an event I go with rez the downed but not the dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Lentz.6982 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 Alright, these are getting old. 1. Its not my fault you did not understand the mechanics of an event (learn from mistakes) 2. Its not my job to babysit someone who shouldn't be face-first soloing. 3. I'm not wasting my time on someone who is lazy 4. There are no events that are 40 seconds or more away, so waypoint. 5. If you teleport to a friend, its not my duty to revive you because " I'm too far away" and you chose not to collect the nearest waypoint. 6. You can stay defeated, I don't care. Still won't revive you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo G.4501 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 I'm confused why people are so adamant about discussing the options (or lack thereof) of the poll. Sure, fine, if you don't agree with the OP's options you can make a post and move on but if it's that much of an issue to you, then WHY did you vote in the poll at all!? It's the OP's choice how to conduct his poll and it can't be changed. Trying to change is mind about it while ignoring his points only returns animosity and no one wants to bother with that. But ultimately, polls are useless anyway, specifically online polls, so stop getting your panties in a bunch and move along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsaneQR.7412 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 Its just more efficient. When people are downed feel free to rezz them. If people die they should WP. Keep as many alive people in the fight and all people participating scale the event. WP are very often placed near the event and with mounts and gliding you can get arround very fast. It costs less effort and less risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notebene.3190 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 I would only pick option 1 if there were some game mechanics added that ensured anyone who "released and returned to the fight", whether to an actual WP or designated 'recovery point' for the event, were given their full participation reward, and aren't in some other way 'left behind' trying to catch back up with their group or raid to continue to new content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cragga the Eighty Third.60 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 > @"Leo G.4501" said: > I'm confused why people are so adamant about discussing the options (or lack thereof) of the poll. Because the options are BAD. They are not clear opposite choices that are mutually exclusive. Choice 1: People should WP Choice 2: People should not HAVE to WP. So here I am. I believe people SHOULD waypoint in reasonable circumstances, but people should not HAVE to waypoint. Which option do I choose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo G.4501 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 > @"Cragga the Eighty Third.6015" said: > > @"Leo G.4501" said: > > I'm confused why people are so adamant about discussing the options (or lack thereof) of the poll. > > Because the options are BAD. They are not clear opposite choices that are mutually exclusive. > > Choice 1: People should WP > Choice 2: People should not HAVE to WP. > > So here I am. I believe people SHOULD waypoint in reasonable circumstances, but people should not HAVE to waypoint. Which option do I choose? > But how many times have you tried to convince the OP that his options are bad, ignoring all other goals of the questioning? Obviously the goal of the poll is to polarize the choice. If you don't agree with it, you're free to state so and move along. Adamantly pursuing a line of reasoning contrary to the discussion's purpose is boarderline derailing. That's all I'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 The problem with this thread is that you can't get any meaningful/reliable data by setting a poll on this forum. The sample of people that use boards (let alone get into this subforum or decide to cast a vote) is way too small to show what the "community" as a whole thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil.7369 Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 Imo the devs should make it clear (if it is already like this) that when you WP and the boss dies that you then get a reward and you can still loot the chest. A lot of players (me2) do not waypoint in fear of losing their reward or losing the chest or the WP being locked from the event. If WPing does not cost you your reward/chest/participation etc. then the devs should make this known. We have Loading Screens... use them. Write it down, add it to the Hints and FAQ sections, spread the word around! "Tip: use Waypoints when dead during Events. You will still receive your event rewards and chest and will not affect the scaling of the event". If this were to not help the situation, then they should just fix this broken system that creates disputes inside the community. Almost all World Bosses have various "phases", like the Claw of Jormag changing position and crashing down. If the zerg reaches this "phase" then all dead players will instantly be revived. Boss mechanics... this game has one of the best mechanics, time to put them to use. Or they could create "checkpoints" during meta events where all dead players can WP to, instead of WPing to the "3 minutes further location" or to the "Blocked thanks to nearby Event" location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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