Patch Notes - Necromancer

[ZDragon.3046]

> @Crinn.7864 said:

> > @Castitalus.6359 said:

> > > @mulzi.8273 said:

> > > Double edge sword for me. Great, they improved reaper damage, but then they double-nerfed shroud uptime (counting the nerf from the previous patch).

> >

> > Yeah, I sighed hard at that. I don't get what they want reaper to do anymore.

>

> What?

>

> Going into shroud is now a DPS increase for the first time ever. These changes are amazing.

 

Crinn i know you adore reaper i tend to often watch your videos and agree with your statements i do agree that now these changes are a step in the right direction.

Pressing f1 to go into shroud should very very empowering and make other players fear whats coming to them if you are allowed to unload on them. for the first time people might think "Watch out that necro just went into shroud"

 

I mean the cost of having less up time is sad ish... but i mean you wont need that time if you can brawl your foes into submission. that said reaper will still be weak to people who know how to kite properly i suppose but what evs XD

[Castitalus.6359]

> @Crinn.7864 said:

> > @Castitalus.6359 said:

> > > @mulzi.8273 said:

> > > Double edge sword for me. Great, they improved reaper damage, but then they double-nerfed shroud uptime (counting the nerf from the previous patch).

> >

> > Yeah, I sighed hard at that. I don't get what they want reaper to do anymore.

>

> What?

>

> Going into shroud is now a DPS increase for the first time ever. These changes are amazing.

 

Doesn't change the fact that your dps is going to plummet when shroud is on CD along with even worse survivability than before.

[Aetatis.5418]

as i mentioned in another thread, shroud is now the dmg GS has been before the patch (with grace of the land... which is gone now). and GS is slightly behind it.

 

full buffed on golem shroud: 28.5k dps

full buffed GS: 27.7k dps

 

however, i am still trying to figure out a rotation that uses more shroud, more high dmg cd's and stuff

[meeflak.9714]

****> @Aetatis.5418 said:

> as i mentioned in another thread, shroud is now the dmg GS has been before the patch (with grace of the land... which is gone now). and GS is slightly behind it.

>

> full buffed on golem shroud: 28.5k dps

> full buffed GS: 27.7k dps

>

> however, i am still trying to figure out a rotation that uses more shroud, more high dmg cd's and stuff

 

That's actually a good number considering every class dropped like 4k dps

[Crinn.7864]

> @Aetatis.5418 said:

> as i mentioned in another thread, shroud is now the dmg GS has been before the patch (with grace of the land... which is gone now). and GS is slightly behind it.

>

> full buffed on golem shroud: 28.5k dps

> full buffed GS: 27.7k dps

>

> however, i am still trying to figure out a rotation that uses more shroud, more high dmg cd's and stuff

 

Alright try this

 

Spite 1/2/2

Soul Reap 1/2/3

Reaper 2/3/3

 

Weapons are Axe and GS

 

Rotation:

Start in axe

 

1) Ghastly Claws

2) enter shroud

3) Executioner's scythe

4) Soul Spiral

5) shroud auto x3

6) exit shroud

7) Ghastly Claws

8) Weapon swap into GS

9) do standard GS things for 10 seconds

10) Weapon swap into axe

11) GOTO step 1

 

The reason we are using axe is because Ghastly Claws ensures that our LF is always topped off, and because Ghastly Claws has that native 1% extra damage per stack of vuln bonus that makes it really good against targets with 25 stacks of vuln.

 

[Sinematic.3106]

> @meeflak.9714 said:

> ****> @Aetatis.5418 said:

> > as i mentioned in another thread, shroud is now the dmg GS has been before the patch (with grace of the land... which is gone now). and GS is slightly behind it.

> >

> > full buffed on golem shroud: 28.5k dps

> > full buffed GS: 27.7k dps

> >

> > however, i am still trying to figure out a rotation that uses more shroud, more high dmg cd's and stuff

>

> That's actually a good number considering every class dropped like 4k dps

 

What kind of dps are you getting with it? :)

[Sinematic.3106]

> @Crinn.7864 said:

> > @Aetatis.5418 said:

> > as i mentioned in another thread, shroud is now the dmg GS has been before the patch (with grace of the land... which is gone now). and GS is slightly behind it.

> >

> > full buffed on golem shroud: 28.5k dps

> > full buffed GS: 27.7k dps

> >

> > however, i am still trying to figure out a rotation that uses more shroud, more high dmg cd's and stuff

>

> Alright try this

>

> Spite 1/2/2

> Soul Reap 1/2/3

> Reaper 2/3/3

>

> Weapons are Axe and GS

>

> Rotation:

> Start in axe

>

> 1) Ghastly Claws

> 2) enter shroud

> 3) Executioner's scythe

> 4) Soul Spiral

> 5) shroud auto x3

> 6) exit shroud

> 7) Ghastly Claws

> 8) Weapon swap into GS

> 9) do standard GS things for 10 seconds

> 10) Weapon swap into axe

> 11) GOTO step 1

>

> The reason we are using axe is because Ghastly Claws ensures that our LF is always topped off, and because Ghastly Claws has that native 1% extra damage per stack of vuln bonus that makes it really good against targets with 25 stacks of vuln.

>

 

What kind of dps are you getting?

[Aetatis.5418]

> @Crinn.7864 said:

> > @Aetatis.5418 said:

> > as i mentioned in another thread, shroud is now the dmg GS has been before the patch (with grace of the land... which is gone now). and GS is slightly behind it.

> >

> > full buffed on golem shroud: 28.5k dps

> > full buffed GS: 27.7k dps

> >

> > however, i am still trying to figure out a rotation that uses more shroud, more high dmg cd's and stuff

>

> Alright try this

>

> Spite 1/2/2

> Soul Reap 1/2/3

> Reaper 2/3/3

>

> Weapons are Axe and GS

>

> Rotation:

> Start in axe

>

> 1) Ghastly Claws

> 2) enter shroud

> 3) Executioner's scythe

> 4) Soul Spiral

> 5) shroud auto x3

> 6) exit shroud

> 7) Ghastly Claws

> 8) Weapon swap into GS

> 9) do standard GS things for 10 seconds

> 10) Weapon swap into axe

> 11) GOTO step 1

>

> The reason we are using axe is because Ghastly Claws ensures that our LF is always topped off, and because Ghastly Claws has that native 1% extra damage per stack of vuln bonus that makes it really good against targets with 25 stacks of vuln.

>

 

already using that rotation. but i cant pull more than what i said in the previous post.

i also tried using warhorn 5 just before entering shroud (which is a 1/4s cast) to top off the LF above 50% at all times (just to be sure). no difference in dps.

also using executioners scythe does not add anything to dps

 

still working on perfect rotations ofc. but it looks not as good as i thought when i read "+25% dmg.... +40%dmg"

 

 

edit: missing +5power infusions aswell

 

edit2: using old almost only GS with blood magic... negates the personald dmg los by giving out 500-ish extra dps to a group with vampiric presence.

so 28k-ish dps, no matter how you use your skills/traits exactly, is what the power reaper is stuck with - full buffs, golem (until proven wrong)

[Anchoku.8142]

This update seems about preparing Necromancer for less shroud time - maybe toward getting rid of it, eventually, so it is more of a tool like Sand shroud.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @Anchoku.8142 said:

> This update seems about preparing Necromancer for less shroud time - maybe toward getting rid of it, eventually, so it is more of a tool like Sand shroud.

 

The shroud disappearing in 3 second might make using shroud skills a bit tight ...

[bearshaman.3421]

I don't understand something. If people weren't using shroud before because it a was dps loss over using GS, then why are they upset that now it's actually a dps increase, even if your time in shroud is lower?

[Aetatis.5418]

the dps increase is not as big as it seems. its 27k dps with camping gs and 28k b weaving shroud into the rotation. but ye. its not a dps loss anymore - not solely defensive anymore. the burst is quite fine

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

> @bearshaman.3421 said:

> I don't understand something. If people weren't using shroud before because it a was dps loss over using GS, then why are they upset that now it's actually a dps increase, even if your time in shroud is lower?

 

While it's a buff for raid play (and not enough of one, but I'll take it) or similar organized group settings, it is absolute murder on the solo players where you need Shroud uptime to stack Might and PvP/WvW where Reaper was already having survival issues.

[Obtena.7952]

Once everyone realizes you have to BE in Reaper Shroud (now with an increased life force consumption rate as well) to get these great DPS buffs, the shine will wear off REALLY fast. I have to double check but I don't even think this is a DPS increase overall in reaper. With a 3% consumption, you get shroud for 33 seconds ... with 5% you get 20 seconds. That's 40% LESS time in shroud ... yet the DPS changes to reaper attacks aren't 40% increases ... am I missing something? That's a overall DPS decrease

 

It will be a first in a long time ... but I believe for this instance, Anet doesn't understand what they are doing.

 

[musu.9205]

> @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> > @bearshaman.3421 said:

> > I don't understand something. If people weren't using shroud before because it a was dps loss over using GS, then why are they upset that now it's actually a dps increase, even if your time in shroud is lower?

>

> While it's a buff for raid play (and not enough of one, but I'll take it) or similar organized group settings, it is absolute murder on the solo players where you need Shroud uptime to stack Might and PvP/WvW where Reaper was already having survival issues.

 

let's be honest , reaper is already great for solo pve .

after buff power reaper might see more play in pvp but they will not be meta , tho still it's in right direction . yeah it's still having survival issues but it's much much more active gameplaywise . if they do more adjusts in the future , reaper rs would be like old lich form .you can pick one : being a punch bag or an actual burst power spec , if reaper still lacks defense , ask anet to add active defense . passive hp is less useful anyway .

reaper won't be used much in wvw anymore .but that's more to do with scourge being too good with all necro tools but better .

 

 

 

 

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

One thing I do want to bring up is the new Signets of Suffering trait. The new recharge mechanic is interesting, to say the least.

 

Plague Signet/Signet of the Locust are our shortest cooldown signets. When traited, these see their cooldowns advance by 2.2 seconds every second in Shroud. Signet of Vampirism advances by 2.4 seconds, Spite by 3.4 seconds, and Undeath by 8.2 seconds. The last actually helps itself out, too, as it increases your base Shroud time now, regardless of it was used recently or not (33% on core Necro, 20% on Reaper).

[Renita.7824]

> @Crinn.7864 said:

> > @Aetatis.5418 said:

> > as i mentioned in another thread, shroud is now the dmg GS has been before the patch (with grace of the land... which is gone now). and GS is slightly behind it.

> >

> > full buffed on golem shroud: 28.5k dps

> > full buffed GS: 27.7k dps

> >

> > however, i am still trying to figure out a rotation that uses more shroud, more high dmg cd's and stuff

>

> Alright try this

>

> Spite 1/2/2

> Soul Reap 1/2/3

> Reaper 2/3/3

>

> Weapons are Axe and GS

>

> Rotation:

> Start in axe

>

> 1) Ghastly Claws

> 2) enter shroud

> 3) Executioner's scythe

> 4) Soul Spiral

> 5) shroud auto x3

> 6) exit shroud

> 7) Ghastly Claws

> 8) Weapon swap into GS

> 9) do standard GS things for 10 seconds

> 10) Weapon swap into axe

> 11) GOTO step 1

>

> The reason we are using axe is because Ghastly Claws ensures that our LF is always topped off, and because Ghastly Claws has that native 1% extra damage per stack of vuln bonus that makes it really good against targets with 25 stacks of vuln.

>

 

Which utilities are you using please?

[kKagari.6804]

I'm liking the direction the patch is heading. Not so much the changes to the skills themselves, we're about break even there. But changes like Unholy Martyr's change is finally adding some cohesiveness between blood and curses (PvP wise). Which is good. One day we'll be as flexible as guardians are now. One day.

[kKagari.6804]

> @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> One thing I do want to bring up is the new Signets of Suffering trait. The new recharge mechanic is interesting, to say the least.

>

> Plague Signet/Signet of the Locust are our shortest cooldown signets. When traited, these see their cooldowns advance by 2.2 seconds every second in Shroud. Signet of Vampirism advances by 2.4 seconds, Spite by 3.4 seconds, and Undeath by 8.2 seconds. The last actually helps itself out, too, as it increases your base Shroud time now, regardless of it was used recently or not (33% on core Necro, 20% on Reaper).

 

I know right, for once a revive skill might be useful in pvp! Btw, are the passives still improved? :)

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @kKagari.6804 said:

> > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> > One thing I do want to bring up is the new Signets of Suffering trait. The new recharge mechanic is interesting, to say the least.

> >

> > Plague Signet/Signet of the Locust are our shortest cooldown signets. When traited, these see their cooldowns advance by 2.2 seconds every second in Shroud. Signet of Vampirism advances by 2.4 seconds, Spite by 3.4 seconds, and Undeath by 8.2 seconds. The last actually helps itself out, too, as it increases your base Shroud time now, regardless of it was used recently or not (33% on core Necro, 20% on Reaper).

>

> I know right, for once a revive skill might be useful in pvp! Btw, are the passives still improved? :)

 

Yes

[Anchoku.8142]

> @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> One thing I do want to bring up is the new Signets of Suffering trait. The new recharge mechanic is interesting, to say the least.

>

> Plague Signet/Signet of the Locust are our shortest cooldown signets. When traited, these see their cooldowns advance by 2.2 seconds every second in Shroud. Signet of Vampirism advances by 2.4 seconds, Spite by 3.4 seconds, and Undeath by 8.2 seconds. The last actually helps itself out, too, as it increases your base Shroud time now, regardless of it was used recently or not (33% on core Necro, 20% on Reaper).

 

I am confused. The patch notes say 4% (of normal cool down) for each second in Shroud. Each second in Shroud adds 1/25 X ICD to normal ICD so you get 1.4+1=2.4 but that is only when in shroud. 35 sec / 2.4 = 14.6 sec accelerated CD, which only happens when camping shroud.

 

This is an odd buff-nerf encouraging players to build LF, pop signets, then camp shroud.

[Ravel.5701]

After the patch the shroud is almost not there. Not going to lie I used it to keep alive longer not really for extra dps. I counted them as normal reaper attacks not some super special wow attacks. Thing is necro even tho' it has a higher hp rate than say ele and thief, it has severe issues in the keep alive department with no shroud. And I main an ele. Today I learned that reapers can die in all kinds of not too awesome ways. I can't make a dent into anything if I fall out of shroud after 2 seconds, more fire power or not. I feel terribly nerfed and it makes me sad. :cry:

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

> @Anchoku.8142 said:

> > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> > One thing I do want to bring up is the new Signets of Suffering trait. The new recharge mechanic is interesting, to say the least.

> >

> > Plague Signet/Signet of the Locust are our shortest cooldown signets. When traited, these see their cooldowns advance by 2.2 seconds every second in Shroud. Signet of Vampirism advances by 2.4 seconds, Spite by 3.4 seconds, and Undeath by 8.2 seconds. The last actually helps itself out, too, as it increases your base Shroud time now, regardless of it was used recently or not (33% on core Necro, 20% on Reaper).

>

> I am confused. The patch notes say 4% (of normal cool down) for each second in Shroud. Each second in Shroud adds 1/25 X ICD to normal ICD so you get 1.4+1=2.4 but that is only when in shroud. 35 sec / 2.4 = 14.6 sec accelerated CD, which only happens when camping shroud.

 

Correct. However, if you've spent 5 seconds in Shroud, you've already hit the original cooldown reduction of the trait. If you get any longer, you pull ahead.

 

Even with the increased drain on Reaper's Shroud, 5 seconds is not hard to pull off every 24 in order to break even on the shortest cooldown skills. If you maintain 5 seconds of Shroud every 24 seconds, you manage something like a 70% cooldown reduction on Undeath.

[Anchoku.8142]

Yes, SoU will be a clear winner, or would if the cast time was shorter.

 

This Signet change definitely needs some trials. It should change how I typically use them.

[kKagari.6804]

> @Sigmoid.7082 said:

> > @kKagari.6804 said:

> > > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> > > One thing I do want to bring up is the new Signets of Suffering trait. The new recharge mechanic is interesting, to say the least.

> > >

> > > Plague Signet/Signet of the Locust are our shortest cooldown signets. When traited, these see their cooldowns advance by 2.2 seconds every second in Shroud. Signet of Vampirism advances by 2.4 seconds, Spite by 3.4 seconds, and Undeath by 8.2 seconds. The last actually helps itself out, too, as it increases your base Shroud time now, regardless of it was used recently or not (33% on core Necro, 20% on Reaper).

> >

> > I know right, for once a revive skill might be useful in pvp! Btw, are the passives still improved? :)

>

> Yes

 

Mwahaha, this is delicious. This means:

 

With full life force on reaper, standing still, you can get 24 seconds mileage in shroud with SoU. That also means you reduce SoU's recharge by 96%, meaning it will only take 7.2 seconds to recharge outside of shroud, meaning the total recharge is 31.2 seconds.

 

In death shroud you can recharge SoU completely in 25 seconds while in shroud! Fun!

 

EDIT: MY bad, thought SoU was 180s CD. BUT YOU GET THE POINT.