Unhindered combattant and cripple

[Jinks.2057]

> @Sasajoe.1509 said:

> Mesmers are pretty easy to outrun actually unlike thieves.

>

> Whether a warrior could catch up to you depends on his build (there are not that many nike warriors nowadays) while thief be it power or condi can & will catch up to you if he decides to.

 

What class are you playing that you are having trouble vs thieves?

 

No one should be getting rekt by thieves at this stage in the game

[Sasajoe.1509]

I play every class (maining rev/engi/ranger/mesmer/warrior/necro & sometimes thief, while trying to get better on ele, my guardian is boring & is too flashy for my taste so it gathers dust atm) & mainly WvW (roaming) the thing that sparks me up is seeing the obvious discrepancies playing a thief vs playing most of other classes while roaming(solo).

 

And it pisses me off especially a lot when the thief just runs away like there is no tomorrow.... that's so fucking lame.

 

You should commit like almost every other class - either get in & win or get in & die no in-betweens (talking from a 1v1 perspective)

[Strider Pj.2193]

Lol. So it's the running away? View that as a win.

[Jeknar.6184]

> @Titan.3472 said:

> Unhindered was used for mobility but its nerf will push players to switch to bounding dodger, instead of runaway dodge it will be dodge smoke stealth & +10% damage lol ^^

 

Until you get pinned down by a immobilize that you would usually clear with your free dodge spam... God bless being able to hit Daredevils now.

[Sasajoe.1509]

> @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> Lol. So it's the running away? View that as a win.

 

 

I can't i haven't stomped him yet + they usually come back after reset & we go again ... which is my other point .. resetting...

 

 

Hmm now that I'm thinking of it - they should really give everyone a full cooldown refresh when you get out of combat, that would be great & will probably lower the number of thieves resetting combat for ages.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@Sasajoe.1509

 

You said you play most classes yet have very little knowledge playing them, or are just bad.

 

An experienced ele can kite long enough for the thief to blow iniaitive then the thief is useless.

 

An engie has very little to worry about vs a thief.

 

Warrior will just laugh at a thief in most cases

 

Mesmers are at a disadvantage vs thief but are not hopelessly doomed, chrono has enough defensive cycles to troll a thief or they can just turn around and 1 shot the thief

 

The only people who should be complaining are necros but even then, they can just condi bomb. But, you know this right since you also play thief too.

[Sasajoe.1509]

> @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> @Sasajoe.1509

>

> You said you play most classes yet have very little knowledge playing them, or are just bad.

>

> An experienced ele can kite long enough for the thief to blow iniaitive then the thief is useless.

>

> An engie has very little to worry about vs a thief.

>

> Warrior will just laugh at a thief in most cases

>

> Mesmers are at a disadvantage vs thief but are not hopelessly doomed, chrono has enough defensive cycles to troll a thief or they can just turn around and 1 shot the thief

>

> The only people who should be complaining are necros but even then, they can just condi bomb. But, you know this right since you also play thief too.

 

Here we go with the typical ignorant thief response.

 

I am not a proficient ele to talk from eles point of view but on the other classes its pretty obvious thief has the advantage when in the open.

& you as thief player know pretty damn well a thief can kite & reset the fight as long as the thief desires to.. don't play dumb + MOST (not all) of the classes don't have such incredible mobility.

Actually no other class has such insane mobility to catch up a thief (if he gets caught hes a pretty bad thief- even a half brain person can utilize that OP mobility)

 

& usually the thieves are the ones that kite & not the other way around, because of all the teleports the thieves have.

 

 

Also you don't seem to know but mirage does actually quite well vs thieves & warriors get quite squishy after the 1st 20 seconds of the fight have passed, you just can kite them out & spike them from time to time ... do I have to teach you how to play vs wars ... jesus.

 

& with all the dodge spam it's quite easy for a thief to make the opponent waste his skills, after that it's easy - that is why this nerf to energy regen was sorely needed

**_good on the devs_** realizing it finally.

[Strider Pj.2193]

Thief has mobility. Thief is relegated to (mostly) roaming. Each class has its areas that it is successful at.

 

With Zerg it's mostly pick. Reality is, if you are playing a particular mode (PvE, PvP, WvW, Raids, roaming, zeroing) there are classes that shine in each.

 

Thief having advantages in roaming is not a problem for me. It's far from broken.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

Thief has the advantage of either gank or run away, that's about it. The longer the fights last the more up hill it is for the thief. What do you define reset? Going out combat or constantly stealthing? Thievs are the 1s that kite simply because they HAVE too, they can't face tank a chicken nor do they have any sustain, well if you class their "perma evading"then sure but we don't have invuls/protection/stability or any good passives, the only dmg midigation we have are from shadow arts or the -10 reduction from dash which is now nerfed.

 

No you don't, or can't teach me anything. None of what I said means I have a problem with said classes, I just said what in most situations are if the zerglings are not complete potatoes and know how thief works. Btw I play core s/d thief.

[Sasajoe.1509]

> @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> Thief has mobility. Thief is relegated to (mostly) roaming. Each class has its areas that it is successful at.

>

> With Zerg it's mostly pick. Reality is, if you are playing a particular mode (PvE, PvP, WvW, Raids, roaming, zeroing) there are classes that shine in each.

>

> Thief having advantages in roaming is not a problem for me. It's far from broken.

 

That's true to a certain extend, but there shouldn't be a roaming king title (nor in any other aspect of the game) & in my opinion the nerf after nerf are getting the job done bringing it to balance, still there are a lot more things to be refined & with this patch I think the devs are on the right track to making teh game better.

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @Sasajoe.1509 said:

> > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > Thief has mobility. Thief is relegated to (mostly) roaming. Each class has its areas that it is successful at.

> >

> > With Zerg it's mostly pick. Reality is, if you are playing a particular mode (PvE, PvP, WvW, Raids, roaming, zeroing) there are classes that shine in each.

> >

> > Thief having advantages in roaming is not a problem for me. It's far from broken.

>

> That's true to a certain extend, but there shouldn't be a roaming king title (nor in any other aspect of the game) & in my opinion the nerf after nerf are getting the job done bringing it to balance, still there are a lot more things to be refined & with this patch I think the devs are on the right track to making teh game better.

 

So....,, the whole GWEN/GREN for Zerg should go away.. the whole DPS/tank/support roles for Raids and fractals too. And while we are at it, core of each class should be able to stalemate any other class regardless of build.....

 

WvW isn't supposed to be balanced around 1s, 2s or even groups of 5. It is supposed to be balance for large scale.

 

There are classes and builds that can destroy thief 1v1. But people have to play them. Most don't.

 

Thief is probably at one of the most balanced places they can be right now.

[Sasajoe.1509]

> @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> Thief has the advantage of either gank or run away, that's about it. The longer the fights last the more up hill it is for the thief. What do you define reset? Going out combat or constantly stealthing? Thievs are the 1s that kite simply because they HAVE too, they can't face tank a chicken nor do they have any sustain, well if you class their "perma evading"then sure but we don't have invuls/protection/stability or any good passives, the only dmg midigation we have are from shadow arts or the -10 reduction from dash which is now nerfed.

>

> No you don't, or can't teach me anything. None of what I said means I have a problem with said classes, I just said what in most situations are if the zerglings are not complete potatoes and know how thief works. Btw I play core s/d thief.

 

you are badly mistaken, the longer the fight goes the more advantage the thief has BECAUSE all other classes have cooldowns on their weapon skills while thieves DON't have cooldowns.

 

Since it seems so difficult for you to grasp the difference between kiting & resetting (by which I think you know it but try to play stupid)

 

Kiting means not going out of combat but staying at range / out of line of sight while resetting means getting out of combat, either of which involves the thief waiting out on the other player to waste his cds.

[Leolas.6273]

> @Sasajoe.1509 said:

> > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > Thief has the advantage of either gank or run away, that's about it. The longer the fights last the more up hill it is for the thief. What do you define reset? Going out combat or constantly stealthing? Thievs are the 1s that kite simply because they HAVE too, they can't face tank a chicken nor do they have any sustain, well if you class their "perma evading"then sure but we don't have invuls/protection/stability or any good passives, the only dmg midigation we have are from shadow arts or the -10 reduction from dash which is now nerfed.

> >

> > No you don't, or can't teach me anything. None of what I said means I have a problem with said classes, I just said what in most situations are if the zerglings are not complete potatoes and know how thief works. Btw I play core s/d thief.

>

> you are badly mistaken, the longer the fight goes the more advantage the thief has BECAUSE all other classes have cooldowns on their weapon skills while thieves DON't have cooldowns.

>

> Since it seems so difficult for you to grasp the difference between kiting & resetting (by which I think you know it but try to play stupid)

>

> Kiting means not going out of combat but staying at range / out of line of sight while resetting means getting out of combat, either of which involves the thief waiting out on the other player to waste his cds.

 

Thief have a global CD called Initiative, which other classes don't have.

[Sasajoe.1509]

> @Leolas.6273 said:

> > @Sasajoe.1509 said:

> > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > Thief has the advantage of either gank or run away, that's about it. The longer the fights last the more up hill it is for the thief. What do you define reset? Going out combat or constantly stealthing? Thievs are the 1s that kite simply because they HAVE too, they can't face tank a chicken nor do they have any sustain, well if you class their "perma evading"then sure but we don't have invuls/protection/stability or any good passives, the only dmg midigation we have are from shadow arts or the -10 reduction from dash which is now nerfed.

> > >

> > > No you don't, or can't teach me anything. None of what I said means I have a problem with said classes, I just said what in most situations are if the zerglings are not complete potatoes and know how thief works. Btw I play core s/d thief.

> >

> > you are badly mistaken, the longer the fight goes the more advantage the thief has BECAUSE all other classes have cooldowns on their weapon skills while thieves DON't have cooldowns.

> >

> > Since it seems so difficult for you to grasp the difference between kiting & resetting (by which I think you know it but try to play stupid)

> >

> > Kiting means not going out of combat but staying at range / out of line of sight while resetting means getting out of combat, either of which involves the thief waiting out on the other player to waste his cds.

>

> Thief have a global CD called Initiative, which other classes don't have.

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Initiative#Skills_which_restore_initiative

 

not every class has reset cooldowns button

[MUDse.7623]

> @Sasajoe.1509 said:

> > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > @Sasajoe.1509

> >

> > You said you play most classes yet have very little knowledge playing them, or are just bad.

> >

> > An experienced ele can kite long enough for the thief to blow iniaitive then the thief is useless.

> >

> > An engie has very little to worry about vs a thief.

> >

> > Warrior will just laugh at a thief in most cases

> >

> > Mesmers are at a disadvantage vs thief but are not hopelessly doomed, chrono has enough defensive cycles to troll a thief or they can just turn around and 1 shot the thief

> >

> > The only people who should be complaining are necros but even then, they can just condi bomb. But, you know this right since you also play thief too.

>

> Here we go with the typical ignorant thief response.

>

> I am not a proficient ele to talk from eles point of view but on the other classes its pretty obvious thief has the advantage when in the open.

> & you as thief player know pretty kitten well a thief can kite & reset the fight as long as the thief desires to.. don't play kitten + MOST (not all) of the classes don't have such incredible mobility.

> Actually no other class has such insane mobility to catch up a thief (if he gets caught hes a pretty bad thief- even a half brain person can utilize that OP mobility)

>

> & usually the thieves are the ones that kite & not the other way around, because of all the teleports the thieves have.

>

>

> Also you don't seem to know but mirage does actually quite well vs thieves & warriors get quite squishy after the 1st 20 seconds of the fight have passed, you just can kite them out & spike them from time to time ... do I have to teach you how to play vs wars ... jesus.

>

> & with all the dodge spam it's quite easy for a thief to make the opponent waste his skills, after that it's easy - that is why this nerf to energy regen was sorely needed

> **_good on the devs_** realizing it finally.

 

i didnt play for much mobility in WvW as i thought running away is stupid and gives your opponent back full health and the opportunity to port away, so i have been playing since shortly after HoT with bound and with SA , yes i know many thieves called me a noob to let myself carry by SA but i didnt have to run away i could just remain in stealth, keep poking while healing up and they didnt nerf this playstyle :D

 

but i do understand your point, i used to roam on other classes long time ago. but with the power creep i felt myself pushed more towards thief cause it has allways been the case that you are going to encounter mostly groups of players while solo roaming but with the power creep a bunch of noobs hitting their head on the keyboard will kill you. and the best defense against that ingame is stealth. people stop spamming attacks, lose focus and some leave the area if you stealth 6-7s+ leaving mostly 1-2 behind you can quickly kill.

 

in a 1 on 1 scenario while roaming i dont have issues killing any class with thief still, cause firstly i mostly have the element of suprise on my side, and second its not a duell wich changes a lot. people dont know if i will disengange fully so they need burst me down quicker than in a duell were they just keep constant preassure or avoiding my burst and wait for me making a mistake. this leads to them wasting their stuff too quick and me winning mostly.

so as much as i would love to roam on an other class while solo roaming i will remain a thief unless with the changes now more people start soloroaming instead of this 6-7 man gank squads i see around all day.

[Leolas.6273]

@Sasajoe.1509

yeah and for sure u can pick all those restore ini skills eh? Man you are complaining about something u have no clue about it. Play thief and see how it is.

[Sasajoe.1509]

> @Leolas.6273 said:

> @Sasajoe.1509

> yeah and for sure u can pick all those restore ini skills eh? Man you are complaining about something u have no clue about it. Play thief and see how it is.

 

It is enough to pick one .

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Roll_for_Initiative - For example.

(which has a stunbreak & evasion, how fitting.)

 

 

 

 

> @MUDse.7623 said:

> > @Sasajoe.1509 said:

> > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > @Sasajoe.1509

> > >

> > > You said you play most classes yet have very little knowledge playing them, or are just bad.

> > >

> > > An experienced ele can kite long enough for the thief to blow iniaitive then the thief is useless.

> > >

> > > An engie has very little to worry about vs a thief.

> > >

> > > Warrior will just laugh at a thief in most cases

> > >

> > > Mesmers are at a disadvantage vs thief but are not hopelessly doomed, chrono has enough defensive cycles to troll a thief or they can just turn around and 1 shot the thief

> > >

> > > The only people who should be complaining are necros but even then, they can just condi bomb. But, you know this right since you also play thief too.

> >

> > Here we go with the typical ignorant thief response.

> >

> > I am not a proficient ele to talk from eles point of view but on the other classes its pretty obvious thief has the advantage when in the open.

> > & you as thief player know pretty kitten well a thief can kite & reset the fight as long as the thief desires to.. don't play kitten + MOST (not all) of the classes don't have such incredible mobility.

> > Actually no other class has such insane mobility to catch up a thief (if he gets caught hes a pretty bad thief- even a half brain person can utilize that OP mobility)

> >

> > & usually the thieves are the ones that kite & not the other way around, because of all the teleports the thieves have.

> >

> >

> > Also you don't seem to know but mirage does actually quite well vs thieves & warriors get quite squishy after the 1st 20 seconds of the fight have passed, you just can kite them out & spike them from time to time ... do I have to teach you how to play vs wars ... jesus.

> >

> > & with all the dodge spam it's quite easy for a thief to make the opponent waste his skills, after that it's easy - that is why this nerf to energy regen was sorely needed

> > **_good on the devs_** realizing it finally.

>

> i didnt play for much mobility in WvW as i thought running away is stupid and gives your opponent back full health and the opportunity to port away, so i have been playing since shortly after HoT with bound and with SA , yes i know many thieves called me a noob to let myself carry by SA but i didnt have to run away i could just remain in stealth, keep poking while healing up and they didnt nerf this playstyle :D

>

> but i do understand your point, i used to roam on other classes long time ago. but with the power creep i felt myself pushed more towards thief cause it has allways been the case that you are going to encounter mostly groups of players while solo roaming but with the power creep a bunch of noobs hitting their head on the keyboard will kill you. and the best defense against that ingame is stealth. people stop spamming attacks, lose focus and some leave the area if you stealth 6-7s+ leaving mostly 1-2 behind you can quickly kill.

>

> in a 1 on 1 scenario while roaming i dont have issues killing any class with thief still, cause firstly i mostly have the element of suprise on my side, and second its not a duell wich changes a lot. people dont know if i will disengange fully so they need burst me down quicker than in a duell were they just keep constant preassure or avoiding my burst and wait for me making a mistake. this leads to them wasting their stuff too quick and me winning mostly.

> so as much as i would love to roam on an other class while solo roaming i will remain a thief unless with the changes now more people start soloroaming instead of this 6-7 man gank squads i see around all day.

 

Thank you !

 

My point exactly.

 

(also btw some of those groups party together because of the thief play you described - the fast burning through cds & so on)

[Turk.5460]

This new debuff - Exhaustion - Renders two traits (Feline Grace, Endless Stamina), a boon (Vigor), and a game-defining mechanic (endurance regeneration) useless for periods of time. The only way that kind of punishment could ever be justified is if Exhaustion also made the Thief immune to those 3 conditions for it's duration. People didn't complain about this because it made Thieves potent in combat, they complained because they couldn't get the satisfaction of finishing the Thief, even though they won the battle.

 

And this isn't some use-wisely to avoid the consequence kind of change. _Every_ profession with _every_ build has access to *at least* one of these 3 conditions. Whether or not this particular trait needed a nerf is irrelevant. The way they nerfed it was ridiculous.

[MUDse.7623]

> @Turk.5460 said:

> This new debuff - Exhaustion - Renders two traits (Feline Grace, Endless Stamina), a boon (Vigor), and a game-defining mechanic (endurance regeneration) useless for periods of time. The only way that kind of punishment could ever be justified is if Exhaustion also made the Thief immune to those 3 conditions for it's duration. People didn't complain about this because it made Thieves potent in combat, they complained because they couldn't get the satisfaction of finishing the Thief, even though they won the battle.

>

> And this isn't some use-wisely to avoid the consequence kind of change. _Every_ profession with _every_ build has access to *at least* one of these 3 conditions. Whether or not this particular trait needed a nerf is irrelevant. The way they nerfed it was ridiculous.

 

i didnt try to justify the change if you understood it as such, mine was just about the superior position of thief in solo roaming.

but you are correct the change wasnt good because it force the thief to use other traits instead of nerfing it but keeping it viable - alot of good ways this could have been done have already been suggested in the thieves forums as you know.

 

[apharma.3741]

I think the change was bad because you don’t have control over whether you remove chill, cripple or immobilise when you dodge an attack. This means you can be punished for playing properly, as in actually avoiding an attack instead of back to back dodging like many thieves do. I do agree the trait was too good and needed toning down but this isn’t the way to do it and the root of the problem lies in that it clears all movement impairing conditions. Maybe if it only cleansed one per dodge prioritising immob, followed by chill and lastly cripple it might have been a better decision.

[Turk.5460]

> @Sasajoe.1509 said:

> > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > Thief has the advantage of either gank or run away, that's about it. The longer the fights last the more up hill it is for the thief. What do you define reset? Going out combat or constantly stealthing? Thievs are the 1s that kite simply because they HAVE too, they can't face tank a chicken nor do they have any sustain, well if you class their "perma evading"then sure but we don't have invuls/protection/stability or any good passives, the only dmg midigation we have are from shadow arts or the -10 reduction from dash which is now nerfed.

> >

> > No you don't, or can't teach me anything. None of what I said means I have a problem with said classes, I just said what in most situations are if the zerglings are not complete potatoes and know how thief works. Btw I play core s/d thief.

>

> you are badly mistaken, the longer the fight goes the more advantage the thief has BECAUSE all other classes have cooldowns on their weapon skills while thieves DON't have cooldowns.

>

> Since it seems so difficult for you to grasp the difference between kiting & resetting (by which I think you know it but try to play stupid)

>

> Kiting means not going out of combat but staying at range / out of line of sight while resetting means getting out of combat, either of which involves the thief waiting out on the other player to waste his cds.

 

You have no idea what you are talking about. It's almost like you lose to every Thief you encounter, then don't bother to learn how they work, then complain about what you incorrectly speculate to to be why you lost. I thought we saw the last of the pathetic "resetting" argument a year ago. This L2P argument is flawed for a multiple of reasons. Thieves generally cannot use shortbow alone to exit combat if someone is chasing them. At least not without wasting all of their initiative, all the while still being within 1200 units of their pursuer for a *long* stretch of time. A quick reset requires the use of a 50s cooldown, which also happens to be *most* Thieves *only* stunbreaker, and one of two condi clears. They also can't reset while conditions are on them, so theres another 30s cooldown if they are using SoA. On top of that, you can really easily walk in the opposite direction and be reset yourself. Resetting is not a tool that wins fights against opponents with half a brain. Are all of your cooldowns longer than 50 seconds? There, now don't you feel silly?

 

Also guess what? The Thieves that you don't understand how to beat aren't going to be affected by this change, and if so, so little that you won't even notice! The ones who *will* be affected are ones using Acrobatics, something that barely anyone complains about.

[Sasajoe.1509]

> @Leolas.6273 said:

> @Sasajoe.1509

> yeah and for sure u can pick all those restore ini skills eh? Man you are complaining about something u have no clue about it. Play thief and see how it is.

 

> @Turk.5460 said:

> > @Sasajoe.1509 said:

> > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > Thief has the advantage of either gank or run away, that's about it. The longer the fights last the more up hill it is for the thief. What do you define reset? Going out combat or constantly stealthing? Thievs are the 1s that kite simply because they HAVE too, they can't face tank a chicken nor do they have any sustain, well if you class their "perma evading"then sure but we don't have invuls/protection/stability or any good passives, the only dmg midigation we have are from shadow arts or the -10 reduction from dash which is now nerfed.

> > >

> > > No you don't, or can't teach me anything. None of what I said means I have a problem with said classes, I just said what in most situations are if the zerglings are not complete potatoes and know how thief works. Btw I play core s/d thief.

> >

> > you are badly mistaken, the longer the fight goes the more advantage the thief has BECAUSE all other classes have cooldowns on their weapon skills while thieves DON't have cooldowns.

> >

> > Since it seems so difficult for you to grasp the difference between kiting & resetting (by which I think you know it but try to play stupid)

> >

> > Kiting means not going out of combat but staying at range / out of line of sight while resetting means getting out of combat, either of which involves the thief waiting out on the other player to waste his cds.

>

> You have no idea what you are talking about. It's almost like you lose to every Thief you encounter, then don't bother to learn how they work, then complain about what you incorrectly speculate to to be why you lost. I thought we saw the last of the pathetic "resetting" argument a year ago. This L2P argument is flawed for a multiple of reasons. Thieves generally cannot use shortbow alone to exit combat if someone is chasing them. At least not without wasting all of their initiative, all the while still being within 1200 units of their pursuer for a *long* stretch of time. A quick reset requires the use of a 50s cooldown, which also happens to be *most* Thieves *only* stunbreaker, and one of two condi clears. They also can't reset while conditions are on them, so theres another 30s cooldown if they are using SoA. On top of that, you can really easily walk in the opposite direction and be reset yourself. Resetting is not a tool that wins fights against opponents with half a brain. Are all of your cooldowns longer than 50 seconds? There, now don't you feel silly?

>

> Also guess what? The Thieves that you don't understand how to beat aren't going to be affected by this change, and if so, so little that you won't even notice! The ones who *will* be affected are ones using Acrobatics, something that barely anyone complains about.

 

Well resetting is very real no matter how much try to deny it .. it is as if you never played wvw & only a half brain person can claim that thief doesn' have advantage the more the fight carries on, when he obviously has a much better/forgiving cooldown mechanic.

 

Not only this nerf was justified but more changes are required to bring that class to balance.

[Turk.5460]

> @Sasajoe.1509 said:

> > @Leolas.6273 said:

> > @Sasajoe.1509

> > yeah and for sure u can pick all those restore ini skills eh? Man you are complaining about something u have no clue about it. Play thief and see how it is.

>

> > @Turk.5460 said:

> > > @Sasajoe.1509 said:

> > > > @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > > > Thief has the advantage of either gank or run away, that's about it. The longer the fights last the more up hill it is for the thief. What do you define reset? Going out combat or constantly stealthing? Thievs are the 1s that kite simply because they HAVE too, they can't face tank a chicken nor do they have any sustain, well if you class their "perma evading"then sure but we don't have invuls/protection/stability or any good passives, the only dmg midigation we have are from shadow arts or the -10 reduction from dash which is now nerfed.

> > > >

> > > > No you don't, or can't teach me anything. None of what I said means I have a problem with said classes, I just said what in most situations are if the zerglings are not complete potatoes and know how thief works. Btw I play core s/d thief.

> > >

> > > you are badly mistaken, the longer the fight goes the more advantage the thief has BECAUSE all other classes have cooldowns on their weapon skills while thieves DON't have cooldowns.

> > >

> > > Since it seems so difficult for you to grasp the difference between kiting & resetting (by which I think you know it but try to play stupid)

> > >

> > > Kiting means not going out of combat but staying at range / out of line of sight while resetting means getting out of combat, either of which involves the thief waiting out on the other player to waste his cds.

> >

> > You have no idea what you are talking about. It's almost like you lose to every Thief you encounter, then don't bother to learn how they work, then complain about what you incorrectly speculate to to be why you lost. I thought we saw the last of the pathetic "resetting" argument a year ago. This L2P argument is flawed for a multiple of reasons. Thieves generally cannot use shortbow alone to exit combat if someone is chasing them. At least not without wasting all of their initiative, all the while still being within 1200 units of their pursuer for a *long* stretch of time. A quick reset requires the use of a 50s cooldown, which also happens to be *most* Thieves *only* stunbreaker, and one of two condi clears. They also can't reset while conditions are on them, so theres another 30s cooldown if they are using SoA. On top of that, you can really easily walk in the opposite direction and be reset yourself. Resetting is not a tool that wins fights against opponents with half a brain. Are all of your cooldowns longer than 50 seconds? There, now don't you feel silly?

> >

> > Also guess what? The Thieves that you don't understand how to beat aren't going to be affected by this change, and if so, so little that you won't even notice! The ones who *will* be affected are ones using Acrobatics, something that barely anyone complains about.

>

> Well resetting is very real no matter how much try to deny it .. it is as if you never played wvw & only a half brain person can claim that thief doesn' have advantage the more the fight carries on, when he obviously has a much better/forgiving cooldown mechanic.

>

> Not only this nerf was justified but more changes are required to bring that class to balance.

 

Hello! Please only quote my text if you have an actual response to my argument. You seem to have accidentally copied portions of my post instead of formulating your own response.

 

I am curious as to what changes you thing Thief needs. Please visit the Thief forums and post your opinion there with what you think needs to be improved.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

No one is denying theif resets but you're saying as if thief is the only culprit to do it.

[babazhook.6805]

While not supporting the changes to UC as implemented , I have no issues with the suggestion the skill as it was gave a bit too much. In theory I suppose a Daredevil spec such as an s/x user traited acro and don't stop can still get to next to full benefit off the UC which MIGHT lead to more play with those specs over the meta of d/p or for that matter go acro with don.t stop and use Bounding.

 

It hardly the end of the road for the thief.

 

That said 4 seconds no regen is too onerous a penalty. A Chill/cripple immob that compromises an entire traitline is just ill thought out and Chill cripple and immobs are far more prevalent and easy to apply than are the reveals which hit the SA line.