Leolas.6273 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > And yet we get all these threads about how more stuff should be free, how people deserve more for their purchase price of vanilla GW2 over 5 years ago, how convenience items and cosmetics should be cheaper or free. > > how about not selling rng scam boxes? > > how about putting into gemstore skins people want instead of making them yearly promos? > > how about considering going back to armor set creation and put them into gemstore? > > how about reconsidering some prices, to sell for less but sell more? How about GvG? How about develop WvWvW ? How about more Spvp Modis? (These Points are asked and also said since RLS!) How about proper Balance (everyone says this condi is cancer but Anet....) They did some mistakes but ohh rng scam is the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tekey.7946 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > @Danikat.8537 said: > This is your quarterly reminder that these graphs do not show the amount of money players have spent on GW2 (or any other NCSoft game), only the _profit_ NCSoft made from them. Therefore it can be affected by any number of things, many of which we have no information on. > > This includes, but is not limited to: > * The exchange rate between US Dollars and Korean Won > * Anet's costs > * The percentage Anet is allowed to keep as profit > * Marketing budget > * Money set aside for future development > > And probably a dozen other things I've not thought of. It's really annoying to have an incomplete picture, but unless and until Anet becomes a publicly traded company and has to publish full financial details for their shareholders (read: never) all we have to go on is one of the end points of their finances. Trying to work out exactly how much they made originally from that would be like trying to work out your salary from what you have in your wallet on payday. > > (I also think it's worth remembering that every single time one of these comes out it's taken as proof that the game is struggling at best, or more likely dying and NCSoft are likely to shut it down soon unless Anet does something....usually whatever is top of that poster's personal list of desired additions/changes.) > > IMO a better indication of how GW2 is doing will be the announcement of Season 4 of the Living Story. If the game is struggling and especially if it's in financial trouble they're highly unlikely to start developing a large (and therefore expensive) series of new releases to give away free to the majority of players. ... what did I just read? It's pretty easy, take the Q3 2017 reports, compare them to the other quarters. Did PoF bring a number that is adequate for the release of a new MMORPG expansion? What do you think would they do instead of releasing Living World Season 4? It's been advertised to be a part of the expansion. If they don't release it or charge more money for it, people will leave the game even faster than you could imagine. You can't sell a product with a season pass and then fool the players by demanding more money a second time. Maybe you could think about the newly introduced RNG loot box mount sales as a part of "GW2 is struggling and especially if it's in financial trouble". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayumi Spender.1082 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 I'm confused as the charts show that GW2 is doing well but the comments are seeing something bad. I'm puzzled here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PopeUrban.2578 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > On topic, I do believe Q4 will be important to lool at. Longterm revenue is of importance and arenanet has been selling more and more items via the gemstore as well as people being reluctant to purchase PoF an release (as well as its lower price tag compared to HoT). If the revenue remains stable, spikes become less important. > > > > I hope some time in the near future someone at Arenanet opens the subject of "free to play" and instead of finding ways to annoy their loyal customers (like with the mount skins) they find ways to convince free players to buy the game. That huge un-tapped potential is there, waiting to get some attention. > Adding Gliding in Core Tyria, Mounts in Core Tyria, even the Halloween Labyrinth race that was only really doable on a Mount, are all ways to persuade the free players (or simple core game owners) to buy the expansion. > According to an old report, when the game went free to play, the active population doubled, but what happened to all those players? Finding why and then "fixing" it if possible is the way to make huge amounts of money in my opinion, without upsetting the current/loyal players with bad RNG gem store deals. WaitWaitWait You think focusing more on free to play would result in LESS gem store annoyances? Dude. Free to play exists specifically to drive expansion sales. Expansions are a FRACTION of gem store sales already and exist primarily to lock the user in to a market for new things to buy skins for. Further depressing the income from expansions by continuing the trend of offering "free" content for the base level experience only INCREASES reliance on the gem store to turn NCsoft's profit. The expansions and "free" updates are already threadbare specifically to drive users to gem store purchases by deliberately creating very limited ingame rewards in comparison. GW2 expansions aren't making money because they're not designed to make the money. They're designed to create "release events" to pull players eyeballs back to the gem store to sell them more stuff. If they restructured the live events teams, scrapped living world, folded those content teams in to expansion teams, and scrapped all future gem store content while retaining what they already have, then they'd be making expansions with the intent of selling users a complete and compelling experience and charging full game price for them. They are not doing that. They're making exactly as much content and reward as is required to keep people from quitting the game in disgust specifically so that they continue to be exposed to the gem store. GW2 expansions sell poorly because they're not the primary revenue model, and thus, extremely lackluster in terms of the play/reward loop and content specifically to drive players to the gem store. The LS is specifically designed to drive itinerant players to log in during release windows... to get their eyes on the gem store sales that come with them. The currency exchange exists specifically to make players feel like they can "earn" gem store rewards while actually providing players the ability to pass the buck to someone else while requiring them to remain engaged so that they'll hopefully get sick of farming and buy their own gems. Free to play is not the answer if you're looking for LESS emphasis on the gem store. The gem store is already where those profits are coming from, is the exact reason why the chief complaint of both expansions is "where's the content?", is the exact reason they were willing to offer a deeper expansion than HoT for less money, and is the exact reason why they are continually testing the waters with more and more customer unfriendly pricing. First it was Black Lion Chests, then lazy fire armor reskins, then nerfing key farming, then account bound BLC skins, then "bundles" that force you to buy stuff you don't want to get the thing you do, and finally the mount tickets. This is not a sudden heel turn. Anet under NCSoft's direction has been repeatedly inching in to ever more customer unfriendly practices just to see exactly how far they could push the player base in terms of gem store exploitation. Attempting to further increase reliance on the gem store can ONLY result in an even worse experience for players that choose not to engage with its "optional" content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > @PopeUrban.2578 said: > GW2 expansions sell poorly because they're not the primary revenue model, and thus, extremely lackluster in terms of the play/reward loop and content specifically to drive players to the gem store. The LS is specifically designed to drive itinerant players to log in during release windows... to get their eyes on the gem store sales that come with them. The currency exchange exists specifically to make players feel like they can "earn" gem store rewards while actually providing players the ability to pass the buck to someone else while requiring them to remain engaged so that they'll hopefully get sick of farming and buy their own gems. > If expansions sell poorly then it means less profit from the gem store too. Glider skins are pointless for those who don't have Heart of Thorns and Mounts skins are pointless for those who don't have Path of Fire. More players paying for the expansions = more money from the gem store. What they are doing now with the gem store policy is trying to milk more money out of those who already paid for the expansions. Instead I said to focus on turning more players paying customers, therefore more players get access to the gem store items for expansion-specific items = more profit for Anet. The more players buy Path of Fire, the more visibility to the Mount Adoption deal = more profits. And if there is a larger paying playerbase, then I hope the gem store deals will also be better, since they won't have to deal with fewer players and use RNG to get more money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PopeUrban.2578 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > @PopeUrban.2578 said: > > GW2 expansions sell poorly because they're not the primary revenue model, and thus, extremely lackluster in terms of the play/reward loop and content specifically to drive players to the gem store. The LS is specifically designed to drive itinerant players to log in during release windows... to get their eyes on the gem store sales that come with them. The currency exchange exists specifically to make players feel like they can "earn" gem store rewards while actually providing players the ability to pass the buck to someone else while requiring them to remain engaged so that they'll hopefully get sick of farming and buy their own gems. > > > > If expansions sell poorly then it means less profit from the gem store too. Glider skins are pointless for those who don't have Heart of Thorns and Mounts skins are pointless for those who don't have Path of Fire. More players paying for the expansions = more money from the gem store. > What they are doing now with the gem store policy is trying to milk more money out of those who already paid for the expansions. Instead I said to focus on turning more players paying customers, therefore more players get access to the gem store items for expansion-specific items = more profit for Anet. > The more players buy Path of Fire, the more visibility to the Mount Adoption deal = more profits. And if there is a larger paying playerbase, then I hope the gem store deals will also be better, since they won't have to deal with fewer players and use RNG to get more money. > Alternate idea: Take all those people working on gem store content and "free" updates. Fold them in to one big team tasked with making one cohesive product. Sell the product for full price with confidence because its worth the money and capable of keeping your player base consistently engaged long enough to sell them another expansion. Let the free players see that they're getting great value for the single purchase price of expansions without being nickel and dimed or forced to farm so that someone else can be nickel and dimed. Explain to shareholders that when you actually focus on making a higher quality product that serves the customer's needs it results in positive buzz and free press that reduces your required marketing budget. Explain to them that exploiting your customers by deliberately selling them disappointment is only effective in the short term and results in high player churn that in turn makes it very difficult to acquire new customers because of negative word of mouth. Or hey just build them a time machine and let them talk to Anets founders about why they left their jobs to create GW1 in the first place, and remind them how successful it was using exactly that business model before they started exploring microtransactions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Despond.2174 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 GW2 has to be doing well. It's in the top 3 most populated MMOs and I basically pay a sub with the gem support I give and every second person I see/know is always buying gems with cash @ the store. I mean I'd ideally prefer a sub system for GW2, it would probably end up being cheaper for me lol. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > It's in the top 3 most populated MMOs How do you know this? We don't know how many active players play GW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battledrone.8315 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > Random banner with "Buy PoF" is good if people know what it is. I doubt anyone gonna do research about every popup that is probably blocked by the ad block in the first place. > 4 raid wings and 3 fractals in 2 years. 1 dungeon in 5 years. All this endgame. ...and all the end game, that was there from the beginning..and all the fractals..marionette/LW..DT/SW..all of HoT..and some of PoF too much special content..too little bread&butter content..AKA hearts they are starting to change that, but what good is a casual heart, if its gated behind hard content? the casual will prolly ragequit before reaching it, and the hardcores will do it blindfolded anyway they always had trouble with the pacing, right from the huge miniboss at the end of the tutorial no ad is better (or worse) , than word of mouth, that is why the expansions are struggling people can play the best parts for free..why would they pay for something of lesser quality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > @battledrone.8315 said: > people can play the best parts for free..why would they pay for something of lesser quality? > Or they get bored with the parts they have access to and leave the game in disgust. There are two sides to this coin, you say core tyria is the best parts, I say it's the worst parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griever.8150 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > @battledrone.8315 said: > this doesnt look good at all, roughly on par with older games, and outperformed grossly by B&S > i have tried AION , that game is nowhere near the quality of GW2 > im quite baffled by this..what did Anet spend all those money on? Correct me if im wrong but im fairly sure both Aion and B&S are NCsoft's full properties while they only publish GW2, so they only recieve a certain percentage of its income (probably around 20%). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustTrogdor.7892 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > @Griever.8150 said: > > @battledrone.8315 said: > > this doesnt look good at all, roughly on par with older games, and outperformed grossly by B&S > > i have tried AION , that game is nowhere near the quality of GW2 > > im quite baffled by this..what did Anet spend all those money on? > > Correct me if im wrong but im fairly sure both Aion and B&S are NCsoft's full properties while they only publish GW2, so they only recieve a certain percentage of its income (probably around 20%). Anet is a wholly owned subsidiary of NCsoft. All profits go to NCsoft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inculpatus cedo.9234 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > @Griever.8150 said: > > @battledrone.8315 said: > > this doesnt look good at all, roughly on par with older games, and outperformed grossly by B&S > > i have tried AION , that game is nowhere near the quality of GW2 > > im quite baffled by this..what did Anet spend all those money on? > > Correct me if im wrong but im fairly sure both Aion and B&S are NCsoft's full properties while they only publish GW2, so they only recieve a certain percentage of its income (probably around 20%). ArenaNet is a wholly-owned subsidiary of NCSoft (West, I believe), so I'm guessing that can receive any percentage of its income they desire, whether that be 5%, 20%, 50% or whatever.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > @maddoctor.2738 said: > > @Cyninja.2954 said: > > On topic, I do believe Q4 will be important to lool at. Longterm revenue is of importance and arenanet has been selling more and more items via the gemstore as well as people being reluctant to purchase PoF an release (as well as its lower price tag compared to HoT). If the revenue remains stable, spikes become less important. > > > > I hope some time in the near future someone at Arenanet opens the subject of "free to play" and instead of finding ways to annoy their loyal customers (like with the mount skins) they find ways to convince free players to buy the game. That huge un-tapped potential is there, waiting to get some attention. > Adding Gliding in Core Tyria, Mounts in Core Tyria, even the Halloween Labyrinth race that was only really doable on a Mount, are all ways to persuade the free players (or simple core game owners) to buy the expansion. > According to an old report, when the game went free to play, the active population doubled, but what happened to all those players? Finding why and then "fixing" it if possible is the way to make huge amounts of money in my opinion, without upsetting the current/loyal players with bad RNG gem store deals. So basically by giving F2P players everything they would get in the expansion in the core game, they would want to purchase the expansion? How would that work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erasculio.2914 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > @Cyninja.2954 said: > And yet we get all these threads about how more stuff should be free, how people deserve more for their purchase price of vanilla GW2 over 5 years ago, how convenience items and cosmetics should be cheaper or free. > Suddenly an earnigs report comes out and every one is concerned the game might die. Hilarious. Honestly, if I had to choose between GW2 dying or having the game filled with sleazy loot boxes, I would pick "GW2 dying". > @DanteZero.9736 said: > Seeing this chart makes me concerned for the future of ArenaNet as a company and Guild Wars 2. > I'm worried NCSoft might pull a City of Heroes/Villains on Anet. Very unlikely. Keep in mind that "dying", for a MMORPG, is very relative, but we have few examples of one being completely shut down. Take a look at Wildstar, for example - it has long been known to be a massive failure, it's also owned by NCSoft, and yet it's still there. Its results are so poor that it isn't even shown individually in the earning reports, but NCSoft has not closed it. However, and here we have multiple examples, often a MMORPG isn't shut down, but its development team is massively downscaled. See Wildstar (which has very little new content being produced), The Old Republic (that suffered a big downscale soon after release but still has a lot of content being produced), and so on. Is this a kind of "death"? MMORPGs simply aren't what they used to be back when WoW was at its peak, and everyone was looking for a property to turn into one. Which big MMORPG has been released since 2016? Which one is a really big success right now? Other than WoW and Final Fantasy XIV, the others aren't doing that well. Black Desert Online, Wildstar, The Elder Scrolls Online, Neverwinter, ArcheAge, The Secret World, Blade & Soul, TERA, The Old Republic, Rift, Aion... Are those really healthy, filled with players? Or are they just making do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feroxeu.7416 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > @Nejul.8415 said: > This can't be right. Gw2 is the best mmo out there. guild wars 2 is not the best mmo out there. Personally, I prefer 2 others over guildwars 2 atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Healix.5819 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > @shadowpass.4236 said: > So basically by giving F2P players everything they would get in the expansion in the core game, they would want to purchase the expansion? How would that work It's not about giving free players expansion content, it's about adding content that they can also access but requires expansion content to complete, such as the mentioned Halloween race. Rather than locking the living world behind the expansion for example, they could be giving everyone a taste, but still requiring the expansion to actually make progress. Imagine playing in Bloodstone Fen without masteries for example. It's much easier to ignore something when you don't actually need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erasculio.2914 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017  The graphic above is interesting, as it shows a clear downward trend since the release of HoT. Now, it's hard to say how much of that is simply because the game is old and how much ArenaNet could actually have avoided, but the next couple quarters will be crucial in showing us what trend will PoF cause. The graphic came from a Reddit post, by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReaverKane.7598 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 You can't really look ta those graphics and conclude anything... 90% of those figures report to Asian markets. Look at their performance review in written text, **EU and NA sales INCREASED 13% based on Guild Wars 2 performance**, that's the part that concerns us. And 15 million Euro sales in a quarter isn't that shabby, sure compared to other IPs that sell well in Asia it's not as great, but GW2 is still the main IP NCSoft has in Europe and Asia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inoki.6048 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > @DanteZero.9736 said: > Seeing this chart makes me concerned for the future of ArenaNet as a company and Guild Wars 2. > I'm worried NCSoft might pull a City of Heroes/Villains on Anet. I never liked the idea of ANet being owned by NCSoft having experienced most of their games. A terrible company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilyanna.9361 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > And yet we get all these threads about how more stuff should be free, how people deserve more for their purchase price of vanilla GW2 over 5 years ago, how convenience items and cosmetics should be cheaper or free. > > how about not selling rng scam boxes? > > how about putting into gemstore skins people want instead of making them yearly promos? > > how about considering going back to armor set creation and put them into gemstore? > > how about reconsidering some prices, to sell for less but sell more? How about realizing art is not free How about realizing you need to pay artists to do this How about realizing if you actually want to support them you will share five dollars. Owait. You want and think so-called retexturing is not hard work, and therefore which to bend everything in your favor. Oh my bad, carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > @Lilyanna.9361 said: > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > And yet we get all these threads about how more stuff should be free, how people deserve more for their purchase price of vanilla GW2 over 5 years ago, how convenience items and cosmetics should be cheaper or free. > > > > how about not selling rng scam boxes? > > > > how about putting into gemstore skins people want instead of making them yearly promos? > > > > how about considering going back to armor set creation and put them into gemstore? > > > > how about reconsidering some prices, to sell for less but sell more? > > How about realizing art is not free > How about realizing you need to pay artists to do this > How about realizing if you actually want to support them you will share five dollars. > Owait. > You want and think so-called retexturing is not hard work, and therefore which to bend everything in your favor. > > Oh my bad, carry on. But people want to pay for mounts, amors etc. They don't want rng loot boxes. I think you are capable of seeing the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilyanna.9361 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > @Lilyanna.9361 said: > > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > > And yet we get all these threads about how more stuff should be free, how people deserve more for their purchase price of vanilla GW2 over 5 years ago, how convenience items and cosmetics should be cheaper or free. > > > > > > how about not selling rng scam boxes? > > > > > > how about putting into gemstore skins people want instead of making them yearly promos? > > > > > > how about considering going back to armor set creation and put them into gemstore? > > > > > > how about reconsidering some prices, to sell for less but sell more? > > > > How about realizing art is not free > > How about realizing you need to pay artists to do this > > How about realizing if you actually want to support them you will share five dollars. > > Owait. > > You want and think so-called retexturing is not hard work, and therefore which to bend everything in your favor. > > > > Oh my bad, carry on. > > But people want to pay for mounts, amors etc. They don't want rng loot boxes. I think you are capable of seeing the difference. These are the same people that are notorious and have a hard time with buying an expansion, let along putting down money with or without the expansions. Even with the money made currently, they can make changes that can very much bring people back. These people are not willing to support the game, which therefore they are becoming the detriment. Why do you think games rely on subs, or the communities are much calmer there? As soon as you pull away from b2p or sub to play, you get people not inclined on supporting the game and instead leech. Guild Wars was better off being b2p. Hands down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRandomGuy.7246 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > @Lilyanna.9361 said: > > @Kheldorn.5123 said: > > > And yet we get all these threads about how more stuff should be free, how people deserve more for their purchase price of vanilla GW2 over 5 years ago, how convenience items and cosmetics should be cheaper or free. > > > > how about not selling rng scam boxes? > > > > how about putting into gemstore skins people want instead of making them yearly promos? > > > > how about considering going back to armor set creation and put them into gemstore? > > > > how about reconsidering some prices, to sell for less but sell more? > > How about realizing art is not free > How about realizing you need to pay artists to do this > How about realizing if you actually want to support them you will share five dollars. > Owait. > You want and think so-called retexturing is not hard work, and therefore which to bend everything in your favor. > > Oh my bad, carry on. Quote the part where he says that skins should be free :3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFourthLegacy.9485 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 > @Lilyanna.9361 said: > How about realizing art is not free > How about realizing you need to pay artists to do this > How about realizing if you actually want to support them you will share five dollars. > Owait. > You want and think so-called retexturing is not hard work, and therefore which to bend everything in your favor. > > Oh my bad, carry on. That is not the point. No one is demanding free stuff. I will gladly pay for things with real money, but only if they are worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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