Did PoF succeed or not?

[Harper.4173]

So I've been wondering recently about how the new expansion performed. It's been quite some time since its release and still I can't quite tell if it was a flop, a success or somewhere in between.

With HoT - I knew in the first week post launch that it was going to flop - and it did. HoT did poorly from a financial point of view - but what about PoF?

 

When the expansion plans for the future leaked ( a while back) I remember seeing something along the lines of "We'll have an expansion 3 only if expansion 2 does well" - so this is something that's been on my mind.

 

So - how well was PoF received? I really can't tell.

For me personally - PoF was a mixed bag - somewhat fun but ultimately *too little* for an expansion that was supposed to be " all about content". I did most of the things in about a month and haven't really gone back since.

 

So what was the situation like for you guys? Did PoF meet your expectations? Do you think it hit the mark it needed to in order to insure another expansion?

[Evolute.6239]

The actual expansion story and content was great. It was a pleasurable week or two.

 

After that it's been bad.

 

Things POF did well:

 

- Story. Miles ahed of HOT

- Maps. Arguable, but they're probably better designed. I love TD now, but I detested it until I learned it.

- Dynamic events. Flat out more of them.

 

Things HOT did well:

 

- Everything else.

[Nick Lentz.6982]

I'm in the same boat. Too much was meh to enjoy it. I'm basically trying to find motivation to grab the cheevos.

The story was garbage and could of been epic had they used one of the two other godlyish beings ( if you know, you know)

The agro range needs a serious look at.

Minis that I will never use.

It was a very short trip Down Guild Wars 1 memory lane, for me.

And the Mac Daddy of facepalms, repeatable fucking hearts...

 

But that Griffon and Firebrand

(Main guardian) were great.

 

 

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

The mounts are great The expansion wasn’t really my cup of tea. It felt unfocused. Returning to escort events and plugging holes in pipes was boring and I missed having meta events in the maps. If they had Silverwastes like meta event chains I think I would had found this expansion much more interesting.

[Lunateric.3708]

I enjoyed the story, the pacing and the maps a ton but it was pretty lacking on rewards overall, it was a HUGE missed opportunity to not have at least a couple mount skins as in-game rewards. I don't see Serpent's Ire or Maw being as repeatable and worthwhile as HoT metas either.

[battledrone.8315]

i havent seen any numbers from anet, but im guessing it was a dud

it was only a little step up from hot IMO, the hearts were okay , but they wont do much good where they are now

i certainly wont finish it, not worth the hassle

[minion.1987]

looked boring didn't buy it.

[Abelisk.4527]

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/guild-wars-2-path-of-fire

 

Rating wise: Yes

 

Sales wise: TBD

[Drew.1865]

The mounts are wonderful. The POF zones and everything about them were boring to me. I like to feel rewarded for effort and other than unlocking the mounts there wasn’t anything in the zones I wanted to do more than once. Like the last ESO expansion POF seemed more like a patch.

[Swimsasa Stoon.8936]

Well if we compare HoT with PoF just in rolled out content you can see that there are some things that they cut back on.

HoT brought us the Revenant and the Scribe + lots of meta events though I kind of dislike how Dragon's Stand was done, except for that final boss-fight. The lanes to get to the boss just take soooo much time but I loved the other maps a lot!

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @Abelisk.4527 said:

> http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/guild-wars-2-path-of-fire

>

> Rating wise: Yes

>

> Sales wise: TBD

 

This site shows 61 user reviews for PoF and 492 for HoT. 77% (47/61) of the PoF reviews are positive, while 61% (305/492) for HoT are positive. Higher percentage of positive reviews for PoF, much more reviews for HoT. I'd be tempted to say this is purely an artifact of HoT being 2+ years old versus PoF being 2 months old. However, looking at the revenue numbers for the HoT launch quarter versus the PoF laucnh quarter, we see a similar story regarding overall numbers.

 

In Q4/2015, NCSft stated that gem sales were stable, leading to the assumption that revenue in excess of the average amount of gem sales yielded ~280K HoT boxes sold. That's not accurate of course because it's based on the basic package, which does not account for either the deluxe/ultimate package prices or sales by 3rd party vendors. However, if you make a similar assumption about gem sales and perform the same calculation for PoF, the basic package guesstimate sales number would yield closer to 150K boxes. I doubt anyone would be surprised that an aging game holds on to less and less of its player base as time goes on.

 

That all said, it's impossible to know whether the lower revenue and apparent smaller number of virtual box sales represents a smaller or larger rate of adoption (the numbers of total active players who bought the box), largely because we have no idea of the number of active players. Lower revenue for PoF (so far) may also be the result of HoT releasing in the first month of its release quarter, whereas PoF released available slightly more than a week before the end of its release quarter. I guess we'll see just how much revenue gets reported for Q4/17. That may help provide a better picture.

 

We also don't know how many players returned (I've seen quite a number of forum posts by people who said they did), nor how many new players (or F2P) bought the box. then, there's the likelihood that at least some of those who posted their intention _not_ to buy HoT in the mega thread about whether HoT was worth its price or not followed through. If enough people left, the PoF sales may represent a much higher percentage of active players than HoT enjoyed. Would that mean it was a success, even though the overall numbers are lower.

 

Finally, I suspect that most players are going to base their conclusions on whether PoF scratched their particular itch for playable content. I've already enjoyed PoF more than I did/do HoT. However, I recognize the lack of meta cycles and shiny gewgaws to pursue are going to be an issue for some.

[maddoctor.2738]

I think it's too early to know. Given the players still available to play, blaming the core game, Heart of Thorns did well for its time but after the initial quarters revenue drop.

I'll wait to see Q4/2017 to judge Path of Fire success and then Q1/2018 to judge if it has lasting power.

[Harper.4173]

The problem I find with PoF is that it's not great at long term engagement.

The story was decent, better than HoT, really poor for me because they really ruined some GW1 lore aspects - but for a new player that wasn't as deep into GW1 I can see this story as miles before the HoT one.

 

The problem is it has no staying power - once you're done with most of the things (and you will be in about a month) what keeps you coming back?

I also found it largely unrewarding. There are no good gold farms that I've found. There are no relevant currencies that actually give something worth the effort. I simply do't find myself going back to it because there's nothing really drawing me back.

 

As many have pointed out the mounts were a stellar system - and I agree - it was a masterpiece.

The zones also feel and look amazing - but they're empty. There's nothing to do - nothing to strive for. As Indigo puts it above - where are the shinies? We play GW2 mostly for cosmetic loot -and on that front they failed to deliver.

[Orimidu.9604]

The story needed a few more chapters. I get the urgency for beating Balthazar, but it felt like the story missed an opportunity to guide us through some Elonian lore. We've been out of contact with the country for years, and there's a hidden Dwarven tomb with possible access to the Deldrimor Front!

 

It would be fantastic if we had side stories that aligned with the Order we chose back in Personal Story. I can see "The Commander" leading the charge on Balthazar, but also finding time to lend a hand to the Priory's projects concerning Deldrimor, or the Order of Whispers' quarrels with the Order of Shadows, or the Vigil's efforts to work with, teach, and defend Elonians from the Forged.

[AliamRationem.5172]

I know GW2 is a casual game, but ANet's idea of "casual" appears to be simply running around in open world with no goals to work toward. Once again they produce a beautiful game with a really fun combat system...and yet manage to provide few reasons to play it.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

PoF was great on the initial play through, all of the content was good. But it provided no end-game content that was similar to something like a lucrative AB meta or extra raid wing. This is why players clear Crystal Desert and never go back.

 

The mounts were an excellent addition to the game, making everything easier to back play from older content. This actually encouraged me to go back to HoT maps. I know many players have felt the same and I think that's an important aspect to point out.

 

The new specializations were for the most part, designed well in my opinion and added plenty of flavor to the game. On the other hand, these new specializations came with balance problems concerning spvp and wvw. I'm sure they'll figure out in the long run.

 

I don't know from a financial standpoint, but I can say that from a player's standpoint, PoF was worlds better than HoT in terms of sheer fun & enjoyment while playing through the content. I just wish they had added some kind of lucrative end-game content to enjoy with PoF.

 

One other thing: **The only thing that raged me about PoF was adding "Grieving" stats and then not allowing us to obtain recipes for exotic inscrips/insigs. That is something that needs to fixed soon.**

 

[Tachenon.5270]

It succeeded in enticing me to buy it right away instead of waiting around 9 months or so and buying it on sale at half price like I did with HoT, so, there's that. My least favorite part of PoF: the story and the story missions. As with HoT (and LS3), I feel no desire whatsoever to play through the story again on an alt. Once was almost too much. But I've been having mass quantities of fun running amok with the occasional champ train and unlocking the elite professions and going for some of the less annoying and not overly 'make-work' achievements. I even encouraged a friend to come back and get it (he got HoT along with PoF) but after playing only a short time and having the same mission bug out twice and then falling off that busted up pyramid in Crystal Oasis and going splat (no glider yet) he rage quit and so far as I know hasn't been back.

 

So while PoF may not be a turn the pigeons loose and sell the farm success with everyone, in my estimation it's far from being a total fail.

[Malediktus.9250]

The expansion was a disaster if you ask me.

It is basically Living Story 4 in one release + mounts as a new gemstore opportunity.

 

The new elite specs are basically pay to win in pvp and wvw, not even close to being sidegrades. Even worse than HoT specs.

[Adenin.5973]

PoF added:

 

Great story (for an mmo)

Beautiful maps and environments

Amazing mounts

 

But sadly no reason to play the game after you have some achievements and map completion. There are no good rewards in PoF and no big and structured meta events to make grinding for them fun.

 

Also:

1. Masteries are right now just a complete joke and are in no way the "progression system" they wanted to introduce.

2. Repeatable heart quests should have serious consequences for whatever person at Anet came up with them.

3. The gemstore completely destroys the entire reward structure of the game, since MountGate more than ever. There seems to be no hope that this will change in the lifespan of this game. It also hurts the game and its universe if the most flashy and best looking stuff can just be bought via the UI, without any lore or whatever behind it.

4. The elite specs are mediocre at best and many of them don't offer a truly fresh perspective or new ways to play a class. It's now getting obvious (for me) that the elite specializations can not make up for the lack of newly added classes.

5. No new race and no hope that we will get one.

 

Right now the game feels in my opinion simply not rewarding. I have as a "veteran" player no real goal in the game. There's nothing to do for me other than grind gold, so that maybe in the future I can buy something from the gemstore. I could of course also just stay one hour longer at work and just buy whatever I want instantly, which then leaves me again with nothing to do.

[Witch of Doom.5739]

> @Adenin.5973 said:

 

> 2. Repeatable heart quests should have serious consequences for whatever person at Anet came up with them.

 

This. Did someone think, "Let's figure out how we can really frustrate players the most?" If they have to be repeatable for rewards, at least leave the vendor part available. Doing the same mundane chores over and over to access a vendor is the epitome of boredom-inducement.

[serialkicker.5274]

I enjoyed story a lot, mounts are amazing, they made me return to older maps and I enjoy those a lot more now, elite specs are ok so far (only tried two of them).

As for the little less good, I think I'll agree with the rest here, that new maps are not enough interesting to go back to.

I'd say it was well worth the price.

[Lina.1327]

The story was amazing. I finished it within a week or two. But, the new masteries are terrible. Yes, mounts are useful, but to only use masteries on mounts, and not get something else to spend masteries on? Kinda pissed.

[Adenin.5973]

> @"Witch of Doom.5739" said:

> > @Adenin.5973 said:

>

> > 2. Repeatable heart quests should have serious consequences for whatever person at Anet came up with them.

>

> This. Did someone think, "Let's figure out how we can really frustrate players the most?" If they have to be repeatable for rewards, at least leave the vendor part available. Doing the same mundane chores over and over to access a vendor is the epitome of boredom-inducement.

 

I am in general not a big fan of the entire GW2 heart-system that was supposed to be the replacement for standard quests. I would rather get my lvl gear from an NPC that I helped find his missing daughter in a cave or whatever than running around and killing and pressing 'F' on everything in that area. Just to get a meaningless karma reward and having a bad feeling when I need to spend that karma on useless gear of the unlocked vendor.

 

If hearts are bad, repeatable hearts, that are in the new zones now not only the replacement for standard quests but also for metas and certain events in general, are the worst idea ever. They make your daily quests (in WoW for example) look like an epic journey. That's how bad they are imo.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

> @Adenin.5973 said:

 

>2. Repeatable heart quests should have serious consequences for whatever person at Anet came up with them.

 

You can thank the people on the old forum for this idea. There were a few threads pushing the notion that repeatable hearts would be great addition to the game.

 

/Looksatmysignature

 

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I can see why the area should look deserted, being a desert and all but, and this might just be a “me” problem, but the first thing I want to know in a new expansion is, why am I here and what am I supposed to do. I ride out into the desert on my shiny new mount and see scattered single events and isolated mobs. I don’t see events that lead me across the map to a boss that’s interesting to fight and gives good loot. It’s like I’m back in Queensdale where I can plug pipelines and lead NPC’s from one spot to another. That sort of thing is fine in core maps but expansion map events should include events about reaching and overcoming some map boss, like the Harathi Hinterlands have separate, single events and they also have a series of events in part of the map that end in a meta Boss. This gives something for all types of players.

[Magnus Godrik.5841]

Mounts are a complete success. Map rewards can always be fixed.