Pros and cons on DH vs FB in open world content.

[Klowdy.3126]

I was wondering the pros and cons of both elite specs in open world content, focussed on survivability with good damage, or at very least, such good damage that sustain is not needed. If a simple explanation of why one is better in open world is all you got, I'll take that as well. I'm looking for a build that helps with farming S3 maps for some viper trinkets.

[Obtena.7952]

I can say I favour Firebrand as a concept in OW, though I still stand by the idea that in most cases, I believe that Direct Damage and access to a strong ranged weapon give you better options in OW, favouring DH. I've never been super impressed by traps there but I find the Mantra's a little more engaging; the temporary buff they give you are more applicable for most fights than the one hit wonders that traps give you.

 

I still think you can make a stronger Direct Damage build on Guardian than you can a condition build. That's important for regular mobs since the strength of conditions is found on sustained fights. Even the mobs in PoF, notably harder and hardier than the vanilla Orr Trash mobs, I think that's still true. I'm not sure one is more survivable than the other; most traits for survival aren't in either of the elite specs trait lines or skills.

[stone cold.8609]

You really can't go wrong with either - they are both strong elites. They both are about equally effective at open world farming, damage, and sustain in my experience. The biggest difference between the elites I've found is how the virtues play, whether you like mantras vs traps, and whether you build for condi or power damage.

[Skyline Crash.6254]

play whichever you find more fun

[Klowdy.3126]

> @Obtena.7952 said:

> I can say I favour Firebrand as a concept in OW, though I still stand by the idea that in most cases, I believe that Direct Damage and access to a strong ranged weapon give you better options in OW, favouring DH. I've never been super impressed by traps there but I find the Mantra's a little more engaging; the temporary buff they give you are more applicable for most fights than the one hit wonders that traps give you.

>

> I still think you can make a stronger Direct Damage build on Guardian than you can a condition build. That's important for regular mobs since the strength of conditions is found on sustained fights. Even the mobs in PoF, notably harder and hardier than the vanilla Orr Trash mobs, I think that's still true. I'm not sure one is more survivable than the other; most traits for survival aren't in either of the elite specs trait lines or skills.

 

Thank you, that was pretty much what I assumed. I have always felt killing faster was the best defense in OW.

[Azoqu.8917]

FB is better in most ways over the DH. The two things that DH bring over FB are better CC and it can deal with burn immune mobs easily (why are those still a thing?).

[JDub.1530]

DH has better mobility....even if it's only WoR, and is the only way to get 1200 range (unless you like the idea of Symbol of Swiftness as a viable offensive option). I also find DH virtue play is also a bit more immediate. Tomes are very slow to use. I also wish ANet would stop resetting my mantras all the time. I hate playing "the water is lava".

 

But if your focus is LS3 maps, either will work just fine.

[Ryan.9387]

Firebrand can feel weird because the tomes are very binary. You don't do damage in f2 or f3 and don't heal in f1.

 

Dragonhunter feels a lot more straightforward because you don't lose access to your damage when using virtues.

 

That being said, condi demands firebrand so if you want viper's, your decision is pretty much already made.

[AdventZero.6049]

> @JDub.1530 said:

> I also wish ANet would stop resetting my mantras all the time. I hate playing "the water is lava".

 

If you set your underwater skills to the same as your land skills your mantras won't reset when you enter and exit water/swimming.

[otto.5684]

DH does not require you to cast or recast mantras and has better aoe. Though both are fairly strong.

[Thereon.5219]

Tome of Justice being reset on kill allows for some amazing farming and killing speed

[Yannir.4132]

I prefer DH for OW, it's just far less of a hassle. With Fb you have to constantly manage tomes and mantras, whereas DH runs on auto.

 

Sword/Torch + Longbow, Full Berserker. Honor, Zeal, DH. Mending, JI, "Retreat!", PoB, Dragon's Maw. Most foes die before you finish sword 2+3.

[JDub.1530]

> @AdventZero.6049 said:

> > @JDub.1530 said:

> > I also wish ANet would stop resetting my mantras all the time. I hate playing "the water is lava".

>

> If you set your underwater skills to the same as your land skills your mantras won't reset when you enter and exit water/swimming.

 

I could have sworn mantras were not usable underwater. Was that the case at release, or has my mind finally gone?

 

I really wish there was a way to swap UW skills without having to dunk my head under.

[Rennie.6750]

In open world, with the trait "renewed justice", firebrand will do far, far more dps than DH. Imagine DH but with the ability to perma burst. Yes, it's that much. If someone tells you otherwise I wouldn't take them too seriously, because refreshing F1 with a kill in OW is like one of the basic elements of the class. It's also possible to make a far more stable and simple FB build than a DH one if you go for radiance/virtues/FB. You can skip all the annoying + [buff] with symbol/fire/whatever stuff and get your damage passively proc off your symbols and autos. 100% of your dps comes from you hitting things, don't have to have stuff stand in symbols or have x stacks of burns or something equally annoying to micro manage, and the good news is the dps is as high if not higher than DH. Just make sure you pick 3-3-3 in the FB line and x-x-3 in virtues. With that you're doing _very _ consistent damage, and every time something dies, you get the fire tome back for extra burst damage. With this all you need is fire condition duration and you're set.

 

There's really no good reason at all to use DH over FB in open world unless you really like the theme.

[RabbitUp.8294]

> @Rennie.6750 said:

> In open world, with the trait "renewed justice", firebrand will do far, far more dps than DH. Imagine DH but with the ability to perma burst. Yes, it's that much. If someone tells you otherwise I wouldn't take them too seriously, because refreshing F1 with a kill in OW is like one of the basic elements of the class.

 

In open world, things die to your first rotation. There's no place for "dps", it's all about the burst as you move from mob to mob. DH doesn't get the value out of its F1, but their burst is tied to short cd abilties. Procession of Blades is the only exception, which I rarely use for anything other than bosses. Just F1 the veteran, sword #2, GS #4, GS#2 and everything is dead.

 

Using FB long enough, especially in PoF zones, you start noticing just how many mobs won't trigger your reset. Pretty much every event mob has that problem, and events are the only place you will be fighting high number of enemies with increased requency.

 

> There's really no good reason at all to use DH over FB in open world unless you really like the theme.

 

Better survivability, mobility and range.

[CptAurellian.9537]

In open world, I see little reason to use FB instead of DH. Power burst annihilates normal trash faster and when it comes to stuff that lives longer (champs etc.), DH damage is still very competitive. Not to mention the superior defense and mobility of DH.

[Rennie.6750]

> @RabbitUp.8294 said:

> > @Rennie.6750 said:

> > In open world, with the trait "renewed justice", firebrand will do far, far more dps than DH. Imagine DH but with the ability to perma burst. Yes, it's that much. If someone tells you otherwise I wouldn't take them too seriously, because refreshing F1 with a kill in OW is like one of the basic elements of the class.

>

> In open world, things die to your first rotation. There's no place for "dps", it's all about the burst as you move from mob to mob. DH doesn't get the value out of its F1, but their burst is tied to short cd abilties. Procession of Blades is the only exception, which I rarely use for anything other than bosses. Just F1 the veteran, sword #2, GS #4, GS#2 and everything is dead.

 

Not in PoF with 1 or 200k HP regular veteran mobs or event content, which is where it matters the most. And yes the F1 reset is quite reliable in open world.

 

[ProtoGunner.4953]

I like the FB a bit more, though the DH is also good and the traps are great for CC and the mobility is better, too. That's my biggest problem in instanced high level fractals. On the other hand, utility is better; you can dish out some good heals and support if your druid/support is dead. There are pros and cons and imho a great example of balanced elite specs with different playstyles.

[RabbitUp.8294]

> @Rennie.6750 said:

> > @RabbitUp.8294 said:

> > > @Rennie.6750 said:

> > > In open world, with the trait "renewed justice", firebrand will do far, far more dps than DH. Imagine DH but with the ability to perma burst. Yes, it's that much. If someone tells you otherwise I wouldn't take them too seriously, because refreshing F1 with a kill in OW is like one of the basic elements of the class.

> >

> > In open world, things die to your first rotation. There's no place for "dps", it's all about the burst as you move from mob to mob. DH doesn't get the value out of its F1, but their burst is tied to short cd abilties. Procession of Blades is the only exception, which I rarely use for anything other than bosses. Just F1 the veteran, sword #2, GS #4, GS#2 and everything is dead.

>

> Not in PoF with 1 or 200k HP regular veteran mobs or event content, which is where it matters the most. And yes the F1 reset is quite reliable in open world.

>

 

That won't help you then, unless you also have an endless stream of low-health mobs to reset your F1, which you won't. It then becomes a matter of sustained dps, and both specs are roughly equal.

 

Having used FB extensively in PoF, no, it's not at all reliable in events.

[Klowdy.3126]

> @ProtoGunner.4953 said:

> I like the FB a bit more, though the DH is also good and the traps are great for CC and the mobility is better, too. That's my biggest problem in instanced high level fractals. On the other hand, utility is better; you can dish out some good heals and support if your druid/support is dead. There are pros and cons and imho a great example of balanced elite specs with different playstyles.

 

Yeah, I've been torn between the two because they are both fun, and both seem equally strong in OW content, in their own ways.

[Shonesto.2510]

I've tried both, with crappy rare gear mind you, and if you go full damage like most guides suggest, you die in 3 hits (I'm sitting at around 11.5k HP with full berserker rares and a couple of exotics). You REALLY need to be on your toes when playing, especially DH as you need to get in close for setting traps and GS #3. I don't find the spec to be very mindless at all for OW content.

 

I'm not sure if more defensive skills are needed, or if I need a different set of gear for OW that has toughness or vitality as minors.

[Ragnarox.9601]

> @Shonesto.2510 said:

> I've tried both, with crappy rare gear mind you, and if you go full damage like most guides suggest, you die in 3 hits (I'm sitting at around 11.5k HP with full berserker rares and a couple of exotics). You REALLY need to be on your toes when playing, especially DH as you need to get in close for setting traps and GS #3. I don't find the spec to be very mindless at all for OW content.

>

> I'm not sure if more defensive skills are needed, or if I need a different set of gear for OW that has toughness or vitality as minors.

 

Celestial for FB works wonders, in berserker gear you can die to 1 hit. Dont follow guides and min max your equipment.

[Shonesto.2510]

> @Ragnarox.9601 said:

> Celestial for FB works wonders, in berserker gear you can die to 1 hit. Dont follow guides and min max your equipment.

I agree, but in higher level content you are picked for pure damage. I feel like for both DH and FB you need two sets of gear, one for OW and soloing (more defensive) and the other pure damage for mid-high fractals and raiding. As I said, I have crap gear, so getting two sets of gear is a daunting task.

 

I definitely don't think the raid/fractal Guardian builds translate well to solo OW content, unlike the clone Mirage build did until it was nerfed to the ground yesterday :anguished:

 

But I'm still a relative noob to Guardian, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[CptAurellian.9537]

When you kill most stuff so fast it can't hit back, your own health doesn't matter. Yes, there are some mobs that are a pain when you approach them in berserker gear, but I'm not sure more defensive stuff (hence taking a lot longer) will help a lot.

[Shampanix.3928]

**Dragonhunter for OW/Frac** - full marauder gear with traveller runes, weapons: GS/LB, trait lines: zeal/radiance/DH.

 

**Firebrand for OW/Frac/WVW** - full dire gear axe+torch/scepter/shield use Balthazar runes + burning sigils to near max burn duration, trait lines: radiance/virtues/FB (for group content use quickfire + trait 8 pages on tome, for OW use selfish traits like axe improvement and passive virtue still work after stowing a tome, and don't use 8 pages trait as it's a waste in open world, stuff dies too quickly)

 

Both work nicely, both pretty tanky, both dish out decent damage and can be multipurpose. Especially FB option is very tanky and easy to play while burning stuff quickly + tome reset. No way close to benchmark dps, but still a lot of fun to play builds. Only problem I have with FB is lack of appealing long range weapon - I just don't like scepter....

 

And this far I'm 55% on DH vs 45% on FB for anything I play. This means both are great, and I love guard overall.

 

PS: I don't play pvp and raids atm.

 

PPS: Perhaps DH wins for me with longbow being a nice option for PoF events, especially for blinding effects in bounties when I prefer to stay at range to ease my eyes. + I love sunrise my dragonhunter uses...