The Guardian Staff, how could it be improved/tuned for PvE viability?

[Lipzipper.3160]

As of today the guardian staff is a weapon that tries to be a supportive one, but fails because it may as well be trying to do it all (A jack of all trades if you'd like.) I am aware that staff has a place in WvW but this discussion is for PvE. The guardian staff offers might, vulnerability, direct healing, a 4 second light aura, CC in the form of a obstacle and at the top minimal damage.

 

If the staff were to be tuned or improved what aspect would you like to see be the focused one; The buffer, healer, the crowd controller or the dps? The first three are as mentioned supportive roles that the staff do not really do well enough to be taken.

 

Personally I'd prefer a more buffer/condi(vulnerability,weakness etc.) oriented staff. I dont see the staff working as a mainly viable healer, but I could be convinced (nature of mechanics).

[Amineo.8951]

Probably the buffer aspect, I'd change the auto-attack to be stronger and give more might to compete with Druids in all game modes, right now it's the weakest auto in the game by far and you lose so much DPS that it's never worth it to take Staff instead of another weapon like Hammer in PvE, it provides nothing at all...

[InsaneQR.7412]

Well id say they should switch the cone with a projectile that does splash dmg and heals arround the impact Zone (similar to tge current staff 2) and staff two is now a long ranged cone that increases boin duration on allies for a fixed amount of seconds and dmg/burns targets in that area.

And staff should be 1200 range.

[Lipzipper.3160]

> @InsaneQR.7412 said:

> Well id say they should switch the cone with a projectile that does splash dmg and heals arround the impact Zone (similar to tge current staff 2) and staff two is now a long ranged cone that increases boin duration on allies for a fixed amount of seconds and dmg/burns targets in that area.

> And staff should be 1200 range.

 

Interesting! a spell basicly built on expertise, nice! I have to disagree on the range though, the guardian is supposed to be in the heat of battle IMO, intervening and protecting its allies from damage. I basicly dont think the guardian should be able to support with a ranged oriented build.

[CptAurellian.9537]

Imho, both the buffer and the healer roles of staff need a serious buff to make it worthwhile. CC and those little condis won't cut it.

[Jack Skywalker.5674]

Well it would be great if Arenanet could swap staff 2 with Trident 2 and staff 5 with trident 3.

[CptAurellian.9537]

What for? To make staff a little more loot-sticky again? That way, it would still be a weapon with poor support and atrocious dps, i.e. something without a reason to exist in PvE.

[Knox.8962]

Swap staff 1-2 with Trident 1-2. That gives you a pretty solid support weapon.

[Kain Francois.4328]

You're asking them to rework staff? All in one update? Wow, someone's being ungrateful here.

 

You have to understand that they are working under extreme time constraints, and they do not have time to rework the staff in a single update. They can only change one or two skills at a time once every four months, in a process that takes over a year, just to rework the staff. Look at how hard it is for them to fix Reaper, it's been over 2 years, and they still can only change one or two skills at a time. Give them a break.

 

Besides, obviously, the reason staff is capped at 300 range and has the set numbers they do is because balance thinks it is an amazing weapon, and we are just not appreciating it enough. It's kinda like the secret axe mh build for ranger that balance deemed it an extraordinary hybrid weapon for the past 5 years. Try a bit harder, and you will see the secret build that testers have been using for the past 8 months. Staff is OP.

[Incarne.4927]

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/6962/guardian-staff-needs-a-serious-rework-suggestions#latest

[Yannir.4132]

What I think should be done to staff:

 

**Wave of Wrath**

- Increase the range to 450. _600 was too much but halving the range to 300 was too drastic a change._

- Reduce the cleave to only hit 3 enemy targets.

- But make it heal, 300 - 400 baseline, 3 friendly targets. HP scaling is debatable. _Should maybe be slightly less healing than Water Ele staff 1, because the attack speed is quicker. Although the range still puts you in harms way so dunno. Maybe a comparable number?_

- Furthermore, reduce the aftercast of this skill from 1/2 seconds to 1/4. That would make it 3/4 seconds total. It is 1 s currently.

- One point to pick about this change would be whether it heals the guardian himself or not. Maybe give the staff trait a Regen proc on AA to get mileage out of AH, and self-heal that way. But that would make 2 of your traitlines mandatory, which I don't like so... Anyone have a better idea?

 

**Orb of Light**

- Merge the 2 parts of this skill, so that the detonation part activates when it reaches it's destination.

- Should be ground-targeted.

- Projectile speed increased by 100% to account for the loss of control of the detonation.

- Cooldown of this skill is now 6 seconds.

- (It could also be a Blast Finisher but that would be a bonus, as the previous proposed changes would already make it much more functional)

_- These changes would make OoL more like Ancestral Grace on druid, a wholly great skill, yet it would still retain a separate identity, as it doesn't move you nor does it give you evade frames, hence the much shorter cd._

 

**Symbol of Swiftness**

- Make the symbols boon application front-loaded, so that the first pulse of the skill applies 10 seconds of Swiftness.

- Subsequent pulses should apply 2 - 3 seconds of Swiftness.

- The first pulse should be per person, so it's more like the first pulse you are actually in applies the 10 s, not the literal first pulse. Just like the mesmers focus 4 skill.

_- The biggest problem with this symbol is how the boon is applied, not what it actually does in general._

 

**Empower**

- UNROOT this skill already! The animation is an open invitation for necros to Sand Shade the carp out of you. With movement available you could at least move out of the sandy pit of doom without self-interrupting the cast. Dodging should obviously still interrupt it.

- PS. I don't give a carp about how iconic the animation looks. I'm sure a lot of other people don't either. If necessary, it needs to go.

 

**Line of Warding**

- Make it a Water field, especially if OoL becomes a Blast finisher.

- Even if Light fields are much more useful than before nowadays, there's already one in this weapon-set with half the cd, the number 3 skill. Having 2 is redundant.

 

 

 

 

 

[draxynnic.3719]

> @Yannir.4132 said:

> - Cooldown of this skill is now 6 seconds.

 

Alternatively, reduce the healing granted by Detonate to something that is actually balanced with a 3s cooldown, allowing staff to go back to a weapon that, while being best in close, has a decent long-range attack which, while not spammable per se, is still viable for long-range use.

 

Given the powercreep that's come from other healing sources, in fact, having the current Detonate effect on a 3s recharge might not actually be out of line, and would probably make staff a decent healing weapon without needing to add a heal to Wave of Wrath.

[Aeolus.3615]

I would not mind if staff would become a orb dome gameplay

 

-orb 1st skill for damage and explosion for lesse damage and condi cleanse or some boon or mechanic ,

-orb 2nd skill for heal and detonation for barrier+lesser heal (this could be the way that guardian could spread barrier alongside sanctuary to allies) plus a self barrier mechanic needs to be introduced to class similiar to AH but gain bits of barrier when taking damage(80-100 barrier like AH), probably based on vit and healing power since its how barriers works.

-Staff symbol on skill 3 needs to be slightly better due overperformence of other classes just a symbold plus swiftness its a idiotic skill due how the game is being played nowadays, i would sugest swfitness and "resistance ??"

-Empower skill 4th needs to unroot and boost heal slightly bit, or keep root and had a +1k armor while casting empower.. lol

-Line of warding, needs to be changed to Wall of Warding, each player stoped by wall of warding reduces CD on 0.75.

 

Sadly ANet killed staff and other aspects of the guardian to overboost them on FB so players feel forced to buy PoF >_>

 

[Arcaedus.7290]

I agree with many of the changes/ideas posted here but not just for pve. Not all weapons need to be viable in all game modes.

 

However, it just NEEDS to be the case that all weapons should at least be viable in some game mode and this is not the case for staff.

 

You need an extremely specialized build just to make staff perform decently and even then it's not an amazing weapon. The build you use it on won't suffer terribly if you replace staff with either hammer or mace/X.

[Mysticjedi.6053]

I would like staff to be full support.

1 (auto) provide regent boon on third attack

2 orb heals as it passes through provide resistance on detonation

3 symbol stability

4 pulse that converts 2 conditions

5 cc and line provides swiftness

 

[Opopanax.1803]

Really that other thread has so many good options and thoughts. There are lots of good thoughts here as well. Anet needs to do something with it...

[Opopanax.1803]

Oh, and actually I am hoping they make warriors next specialization a staff support and healing role, then I can have my heavy armor staff healing fix.

[IDKismyname.4520]

yeah I wish staves were more viable all-around, not just in wvw, as well. Just make the staff 1 be a full melee with attractive attack animation (instead of making it look like the guardian is trying to stab air with a toothpick) and better raw damage, either allow staff 4 skill to be channeled while moving or completely scrap for a more offensive skill, and just make staff 2 to be an AoE skillshot, making it easier to mind your own business after using it and finally, make staff 3 grant to maybe remove 1 condition (but only one pulse, two with the trait) instead of granting swiftness.

 

This makes up the lack of reliability in properly executing staff skills in the middle of mob/boss fights and still be useful in wvw zerg.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @Opopanax.1803 said:

> Oh, and actually I am hoping they make warriors next specialization a staff support and healing role, then I can have my heavy armor staff healing fix.

 

wil be heavy conditioned based with lots of aoes xD, CONDI trap warrior with stealth INC

 

 

[Opopanax.1803]

> @Aeolus.3615 said:

> > @Opopanax.1803 said:

> > Oh, and actually I am hoping they make warriors next specialization a staff support and healing role, then I can have my heavy armor staff healing fix.

>

> wil be heavy conditioned based with lots of aoes xD, CONDI trap warrior with stealth INC

>

>

 

Lol!

[Arcaedus.7290]

In light of some of the new totally bomb-lookin staff skins and considering that a rework is due for staff (because right now it's poor in all 3 game modes), I wouldn't be all that opposed to one or two of our staff skills getting some "melee-looking" animations 8)

 

Here are some skill rework examples:

 

* Staff 1: Same character model animation as before (a forward stab with your staff), but the cone part of the skill is removed and instead you cast a single-target, piercing, 900 to 1200 range "paragon spear." Less focus on the aoe here, and more focus on the range. It could maintain its current damage for synergy with Permeating Wrath of course.

* Staff 2: What others have suggested would be best; ground-targeted aoe, launch your orb. It flies to location, and automatically detonates, healing + regen to allies and blinds foes. Significantly increase projectile speed though.

* Staff 3: Maintain as is. This is a good skill (synergizes well with condi/permeating wrath, and does mediocre power damage).

* Staff 4: What others have suggested would be best; make it a mobile skill, or treat it like Whirling Wrath (GS 2): mobile but decreased movement speed while casting. Forcing allies to stand still to receive benefits while guardian is casting this skill is bad design. "Rebound!" for tempest was completely redesigned under this same philosophy, so why not a weapon skill?

* Staff 5: Change this skill's animation and function significantly: Animation could be a horizontal swipe/swing, sending out a damaging wave of light. When it reaches your target location, the light wave explodes, inflicting damage and leaving behind a ward. Cast time, cool down and ward duration would remain as is.

[Obtena.7952]

Considering all the better options we have for weapons in PVE, it's going to be a hard sell to make Staff even remotely interesting performance-wise in a PVE setting. I would frankly, not even waste the time to consider doing anything with staff in terms of PVE. I do think there is some room to have one of the more capable 2H weapons reviewed though.

[draxynnic.3719]

> @Obtena.7952 said:

> Considering all the better options we have for weapons in PVE, it's going to be a hard sell to make Staff even remotely interesting performance-wise in a PVE setting. I would frankly, not even waste the time to consider doing anything with staff in terms of PVE. I do think there is some room to have one of the more capable 2H weapons reviewed though.

 

Strongly disagree, on the basis that while guardian has a lot of weapons, it currently basically only has one ranged weapon on core. Reworking staff so it can actually be a reasonably viable ranged weapon literally doubles the standoff options available to core guardian, and by extension, any future elite specialisation that doesn't bring more standoff capability.

[RabbitUp.8294]

> @Obtena.7952 said:

> Considering all the better options we have for weapons in PVE, it's going to be a hard sell to make Staff even remotely interesting performance-wise in a PVE setting. I would frankly, not even waste the time to consider doing anything with staff in terms of PVE. I do think there is some room to have one of the more capable 2H weapons reviewed though.

 

Except that staff can be a healing/support weapon. And on top of that, staff is our only 1200 range core weapon.

 

Two great qualities that automatically set it apart, and enhancing would make it appealing and interesting in a pve setting. Yours is quite the short-sighted statement, and stick in the outdated logic that pve is only about direct damage.

[Shirlias.8104]

1200 range and single target instead of AOE on AA.

I could agree to this.