MarkoNS.3261 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 > @"Chris Cleary.8017" said: > > @Rezzet.3614 said: > > Unfortunetly nothing can be done without videos , because when support looks up data it shows as if the player engaged combat and drops siege data doesnt show where or how was the siege placed > > That's not true at all. I'll see if I can dig into this tomorrow and handle the worst offenders myself. so trolling isnt allowed, it doesnt say anywhere in the tos you cant randomly put down sieges on map, would be silly to ban trolls just because they hurt someones felings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veprovina.4876 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 > @MarkoNS.3261 said: > > @"Chris Cleary.8017" said: > > > @Rezzet.3614 said: > > > Unfortunetly nothing can be done without videos , because when support looks up data it shows as if the player engaged combat and drops siege data doesnt show where or how was the siege placed > > > > That's not true at all. I'll see if I can dig into this tomorrow and handle the worst offenders myself. > > so trolling isnt allowed, it doesnt say anywhere in the tos you cant randomly put down sieges on map, would be silly to ban trolls just because they hurt someones felings. Don't try to spin this, trolling is one thing, griefing and constantly impeding other's ability and to play and enjoy the game is another. According to the OP, the sieges were not put there randomly but intentionally over downed people, objectives and as a supply wasters. That's not random. Trolling usually stops soon because the troll gets bored and trolls someone else. If this is going on for a long time (long enough for somoene to ask for help on the forums), then it might be griefing. Besides. Anet is investigating what that was, if it's trolling or griefing. They'll know. Hopefully we do to, i'm curious how this situation will resolve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 > @MarkoNS.3261 said: > > @"Chris Cleary.8017" said: > > > @Rezzet.3614 said: > > > Unfortunetly nothing can be done without videos , because when support looks up data it shows as if the player engaged combat and drops siege data doesnt show where or how was the siege placed > > > > That's not true at all. I'll see if I can dig into this tomorrow and handle the worst offenders myself. > > so trolling isnt allowed, it doesnt say anywhere in the tos you cant randomly put down sieges on map, would be silly to ban trolls just because they hurt someones felings. Thus the investigation. The question is (and many in this thread feel they know the answer) whether this is 'griefing'. Which is a reportable and bannable offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharmin.7683 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 > @Veprovina.4876 said: > Besides. Anet is investigating what that was, if it's trolling or griefing. They'll know. > Hopefully we do to, i'm curious how this situation will resolve. Unfortunately, their policy usually prevents them from detailing any action taken or if any is taken at all. Best you can probably hope for is to no longer see this individual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veprovina.4876 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 > @kharmin.7683 said: > > @Veprovina.4876 said: > > Besides. Anet is investigating what that was, if it's trolling or griefing. They'll know. > > Hopefully we do to, i'm curious how this situation will resolve. > > Unfortunately, their policy usually prevents them from detailing any action taken or if any is taken at all. Best you can probably hope for is to no longer see this individual. Really? Aw damn. :anguished: DIdn't know that. They don't have to name call anyone, just write up if "a certain person's" actions were griefing or not. But that by itself would implicate that they did or did not take any action against the person so yeah, i guess there's no way for us to know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 > @MarkoNS.3261 said: > > @"Chris Cleary.8017" said: > > > @Rezzet.3614 said: > > > Unfortunetly nothing can be done without videos , because when support looks up data it shows as if the player engaged combat and drops siege data doesnt show where or how was the siege placed > > > > That's not true at all. I'll see if I can dig into this tomorrow and handle the worst offenders myself. > > so trolling isnt allowed, it doesnt say anywhere in the tos you cant randomly put down sieges on map, would be silly to ban trolls just because they hurt someones felings. Top of rules of conduct 1) **While playing Guild Wars 2, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the Game.** To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, embarrass or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players. This includes posting insulting, offensive, or abusive comments about players, repeatedly sending unwanted messages, reporting players maliciously, attacking a player based on race, sexual orientation, religion, heritage, etc. Hate speech is not tolerated. Source: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-rules-of-conduct/ Considering this person is infringing 50 other people’s right to play the game and is causing distress as clearly outlined it’s actionable. Whether you agree with it or not in principle you have agreed to follow that rule by playing GW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonSeed.3528 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 I'm glad he chimed in, hope he can also look at cases of hacking/exploiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TinkTinkPOOF.9201 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 > > @"Chris Cleary.8017" said: > > > @Rezzet.3614 said: > > > Unfortunetly nothing can be done without videos , because when support looks up data it shows as if the player engaged combat and drops siege data doesnt show where or how was the siege placed > > > > That's not true at all. I'll see if I can dig into this tomorrow and handle the worst offenders myself. > > so trolling isnt allowed, it doesnt say anywhere in the tos you cant randomly put down sieges on map, would be silly to ban trolls just because they hurt someones felings. Guess you have not read the rules. As for tossing siege on someone, or jumping on them etc, most people don't care about that, this however it not about hurt feelings, but about an impact to a competitive game play. The two are totally different. And trying to spin it as "randomly putting down siege", when it is really placed with VERY specific intent, is just laughable. With the reaction you have, I take it you are also one of these people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulzi.8273 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 > @kharmin.7683 said: > > @Veprovina.4876 said: > > Besides. Anet is investigating what that was, if it's trolling or griefing. They'll know. > > Hopefully we do to, i'm curious how this situation will resolve. > > Unfortunately, their policy usually prevents them from detailing any action taken or if any is taken at all. Best you can probably hope for is to no longer see this individual. I dunno about that. I seem to recall a video from a dev awhile back, where they took over an exploiter/hacker's account, stripped it naked, deleted all its stuff, then threw the character off a cliff. It was hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReaverKane.7598 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 > @"Chris Cleary.8017" said: > > @Rezzet.3614 said: > > Unfortunetly nothing can be done without videos , because when support looks up data it shows as if the player engaged combat and drops siege data doesnt show where or how was the siege placed > > That's not true at all. I'll see if I can dig into this tomorrow and handle the worst offenders myself. Will we see him nosedive from the top of Stonemist castle onto a pool of unbuilt siege? Cause that would make my day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rennie.6750 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 > @"Chris Cleary.8017" said: > > @Rezzet.3614 said: > > Unfortunetly nothing can be done without videos , because when support looks up data it shows as if the player engaged combat and drops siege data doesnt show where or how was the siege placed > > That's not true at all. I'll see if I can dig into this tomorrow and handle the worst offenders myself. Please do something about the players spamming tactics on cooldown for hours too. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermillion.4061 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 > @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said: > > > > @"Chris Cleary.8017" said: > > > > @Rezzet.3614 said: > > > > Unfortunetly nothing can be done without videos , because when support looks up data it shows as if the player engaged combat and drops siege data doesnt show where or how was the siege placed > > > > > > That's not true at all. I'll see if I can dig into this tomorrow and handle the worst offenders myself. > > > > so trolling isnt allowed, it doesnt say anywhere in the tos you cant randomly put down sieges on map, would be silly to ban trolls just because they hurt someones felings. > > Guess you have not read the rules. As for tossing siege on someone, or jumping on them etc, most people don't care about that, this however it not about hurt feelings, but about an impact to a competitive game play. The two are totally different. And trying to spin it as "randomly putting down siege", when it is really placed with VERY specific intent, is just laughable. With the reaction you have, I take it you are also one of these people? If jumping on someones body after killing them is bannable that is pretty sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veprovina.4876 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 > @Vermillion.4061 said: > > @TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said: > > > > > > @"Chris Cleary.8017" said: > > > > > @Rezzet.3614 said: > > > > > Unfortunetly nothing can be done without videos , because when support looks up data it shows as if the player engaged combat and drops siege data doesnt show where or how was the siege placed > > > > > > > > That's not true at all. I'll see if I can dig into this tomorrow and handle the worst offenders myself. > > > > > > so trolling isnt allowed, it doesnt say anywhere in the tos you cant randomly put down sieges on map, would be silly to ban trolls just because they hurt someones felings. > > > > Guess you have not read the rules. As for tossing siege on someone, or jumping on them etc, most people don't care about that, this however it not about hurt feelings, but about an impact to a competitive game play. The two are totally different. And trying to spin it as "randomly putting down siege", when it is really placed with VERY specific intent, is just laughable. With the reaction you have, I take it you are also one of these people? > > If jumping on someones body after killing them is bannable that is pretty sad. It's not. However dropping siege on them with the purpose of preventing resurrections thus harassing both that player and the entire group associated with that player or players, is. Especially if the siege drops are constant, systematic and so not stop when asked by other players. No one cares if you teabag someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juidodin.5829 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 > @"Chris Cleary.8017" said: > > @Rezzet.3614 said: > > Unfortunetly nothing can be done without videos , because when support looks up data it shows as if the player engaged combat and drops siege data doesnt show where or how was the siege placed > > That's not true at all. I'll see if I can dig into this tomorrow and handle the worst offenders myself. why don't you do the same with cheater and hackers? but no... don't give a shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk.5460 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 > @kharmin.7683 said: > > @Veprovina.4876 said: > > Besides. Anet is investigating what that was, if it's trolling or griefing. They'll know. > > Hopefully we do to, i'm curious how this situation will resolve. > > Unfortunately, their policy usually prevents them from detailing any action taken or if any is taken at all. Best you can probably hope for is to no longer see this individual. I don't think you are correct. Here is an example that contradicts your statement. https://kotaku.com/hackers-mmo-character-publicly-stripped-killed-banne-1702670398 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miko.4158 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 bit of an odd one, I've stayed dead and used map chat to relay back what the enemy zerg is doing. Quite rightly someone put siege on me to make it more difficult for me to see. no issue with it. blocking stuff in the keeps, repairs/ sups I think of differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 > @Miko.4158 said: > bit of an odd one, I've stayed dead and used map chat to relay back what the enemy zerg is doing. Quite rightly someone put siege on me to make it more difficult for me to see. no issue with it. blocking stuff in the keeps, repairs/ sups I think of differently. Agreed. I think the issue is people building 10 catas at the supply depot, dropping multiple ballistas at a wall when the commander is trying to drop cats in the same place preventing people from building the cats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genesis.5169 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 Mark my words, anet if you intervene here you never stop intervening in wvw fights do not cave like you did in Spvp you will permanently destroy wvw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 > @Turk.5460 said: > > @kharmin.7683 said: > > > @Veprovina.4876 said: > > > Besides. Anet is investigating what that was, if it's trolling or griefing. They'll know. > > > Hopefully we do to, i'm curious how this situation will resolve. > > > > Unfortunately, their policy usually prevents them from detailing any action taken or if any is taken at all. Best you can probably hope for is to no longer see this individual. > > I don't think you are correct. Here is an example that contradicts your statement. > > https://kotaku.com/hackers-mmo-character-publicly-stripped-killed-banne-1702670398 That's an exception. It's happened only a few times since GW2 launched, when the banhammer was dropped on someone who had already gone out of their way to publicly admit violating the ToS. In general, ANet doesn't comment on specific cases unless the account owner is disputing the facts in public and ANet wants to set the public record straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArenaNet Staff Chris Cleary.8017 Posted December 1, 2017 ArenaNet Staff Share Posted December 1, 2017 I dug into this a bit, and it looks like there's only a few players with what I would consider "pattern trolling" and one that stood out among them all that was on Baruch Bay. I've handed out a few actions, but I'm not entirely sure I would classify this as a serious issue from an individual player trolling perspective. I would ask that WvW players to continue to report players they believe are behaving maliciously and push comes to shove, you can PM me on the forums or report to exploits@arena.net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 > @Genesis.5169 said: > Mark my words, anet if you intervene here you never stop intervening in wvw fights do not cave like you did in Spvp you will permanently destroy wvw. How would intervening in this instance destroy WvW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genesis.5169 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > @Genesis.5169 said: > > Mark my words, anet if you intervene here you never stop intervening in wvw fights do not cave like you did in Spvp you will permanently destroy wvw. > > How would intervening in this instance destroy WvW? Because anytime anything goes wrong some one is going to come to the forums and cry to anet about how they intervened here and won't intervene in there fights, inducing rage and tears about special treatment. I've seen this happen to many times in mmos, its not Anet job to police anything other then people scamming or hacking thats it, griefing, trolling, being kicked out of raids hurt feelings is not for the company to regulate you cannot fix player attitudes, all they can do is make the game and hope people play in ways friendly to other players. And if they are not playing in ways friendly to other players, its up to the community of gw2 to solve it period, not the devs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 The most important take-away for me from ANet's response today: > @"Chris Cleary.8017" said: > I would ask that WvW players to continue to report players (to exploits@arena.net) they believe are behaving maliciously i.e. /report or report via email first, before using the forums or reddit > and push comes to shove, you can PM me on the forums Thanks for offering that, too. **** > @"Chris Cleary.8017" said: > I dug into this a bit, and it looks like there's only a few players with what I would consider "pattern trolling" and one that stood out among them all that was on Baruch Bay. I've handed out a few actions, Thank you. > @"Chris Cleary.8017" said: > but I'm not entirely sure I would classify this as a serious issue from an individual player trolling perspective. Could you elaborate? Do you mean it's not as widespread as people seem to believe? or perhaps you mean that the individuals committing "pattern trolling" aren't at it for all that long? It's clear that many in this thread (and in /map & /team) think it happens often; is that just a case of confirmation bias? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 > @Genesis.5169 said: > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > > @Genesis.5169 said: > > > Mark my words, anet if you intervene here you never stop intervening in wvw fights do not cave like you did in Spvp you will permanently destroy wvw. > > > > How would intervening in this instance destroy WvW? > > Because anytime anything goes wrong some one is going to come to the forums and cry to anet about how they intervened here and won't intervene in there fights, inducing rage and tears about special treatment. I've seen this happen to many times in mmos, its not Anet job to police anything other then people scamming or hacking thats it, griefing, trolling, being kicked out of raids hurt feelings is not for the company to regulate you cannot fix player attitudes, all they can do is make the game and hope people play in ways friendly to other players. > > And if they are not playing in ways friendly to other players, its up to the community of gw2 to solve it period, not the devs. I guess the main issue here is building countless siege in keeps in places where it is useless, dropping multiple blueprints on the commanders siege, and dropping friendly siege on friendly forces. Many would qualify that as griefing. Trash talking, trolling in map chat, dropping siege prints on opponents is not what I have seen them say. IF that is their intent, I would agree with you. There are player fixes for that. I guess 'griefing' can be considered subjective, as someone pulling tactics so they can't be used when 'needed' might be one persons definition of fun, and another may define it as griefing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArenaNet Staff Chris Cleary.8017 Posted December 1, 2017 ArenaNet Staff Share Posted December 1, 2017 > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > Could you elaborate? Do you mean it's not as widespread as people seem to believe? or perhaps you mean that the individuals committing "pattern trolling" aren't at it for all that long? It's clear that many in this thread (and in /map & /team) think it happens often; is that just a case of confirmation bias? > What I'm seeing is that while there maybe individual instances of players "trolling" or what players may perceive as "trolling" there were only a few players actively and continually being malicious. A single instance of someone tossing down a few crummy sieges isn't something that is entirely malicious, continually doing so as your main objective is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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