Raid difficulty and challenge motes

[zoomborg.9462]

Reading that next wing goes back to w1 difficulty really put a smile on my face. Especially after how ez w4 was.

[Voujs.6942]

Why do you guys think that **WoW** is know for its raids?

1. **They are well polished**. I have done some raids in gw2 and they are not very well polished, the movement of the boss, the hitbox of the attacks, the phases, they should be more visible (visibility dont means less difficulty, its means better experience)

2. ** they have difficulty scales and scaled loot **~~(of course)~~. Player that dont know raids (casuals, pugs, call them whatever you want) dont do them because of it. They should have access to ALL the content of the game (they are paying for it, right?) but you should do that without punishing the hardcorenolife players. its not that hard, rework your LFG and you get 2 problems at once. (its even easier in gw2 cuz we dont have the holy trinity game type, so its basically a easier raid for casual to know the mechanics and play the whole game content)

3. **Boss aren't just big lifeless mobs that drop loot, they make some funny comments or wanna kill your parents** (it doesnt add much but it fells nicer than a giant dude that attacks).

 

_(and NO, the excuse that "we dont have the staff to do it so we are not doing it" is not valid. we are the consumers, the devs make the game, we keep it alive. (that's why runescape still lives, democracy in a game isn't that bad ;) )_

[Fatalyz.7168]

> @Voujs.6942 said:

> 2. ** they have difficulty scales and scaled loot **~~(of course)~~. Player that dont know raids (casuals, pugs, call them whatever you want) dont do them because of it. They should have access to ALL the content of the game (they are paying for it, right?)

 

They should hopefully realize that with raids in this game, they are paying for Challenging group content. Access is purchased with HoT, and everyone that purchased it has equal access.

 

> @Voujs.6942 said:

> (and NO, the excuse that "we dont have the staff to do it so we are not doing it" is not valid.

 

It is when you don't want it to be a large part of your game. Some people want raids to have a much larger part in the game, others don't, Anet in particular doesn't want them to.

[Ohoni.6057]

There needs to be a way for the very many "not interested in challenging content" players of the game to access Legendary armor though.

[Fatalyz.7168]

> @Ohoni.6057 said:

> There needs to be a way for the very many "not interested in challenging content" players of the game to access Legendary armor though.

 

There is, WvW and PvP. They both have their own attainable Legendary set.

[hoeppy.4567]

> @OnizukaBR.8537 said:

> Wing 4 dificulty is arleady a borderline, if they make it any more easier it would just kill the feeling of raiding, and i bet it would affect the CM. Because is way harder to design a fight if you have to worry how to translate it from very easy to hardcore, i bet many really cool mechanics would never come to life if that was something they need to worry about.

 

You're thinking the wrong direction. I obviously don't know how ANet does their encounter design, but as far as I know you design the hardest difficulty first and remove mechanics or tune down numbers to make it easier.

 

I agree with your sentiment, though.

[MashMash.1645]

> @Voujs.6942 said:

> Why do you guys think that **WoW** is know for its raids?

> 1. **They are well polished**. I have done some raids in gw2 and they are not very well polished, the movement of the boss, the hitbox of the attacks, the phases, they should be more visible (visibility dont means less difficulty, its means better experience)

> 2. ** they have difficulty scales and scaled loot **~~(of course)~~. Player that dont know raids (casuals, pugs, call them whatever you want) dont do them because of it. They should have access to ALL the content of the game (they are paying for it, right?) but you should do that without punishing the hardcorenolife players. its not that hard, rework your LFG and you get 2 problems at once. (its even easier in gw2 cuz we dont have the holy trinity game type, so its basically a easier raid for casual to know the mechanics and play the whole game content)

> 3. **Boss aren't just big lifeless mobs that drop loot, they make some funny comments or wanna kill your parents** (it doesnt add much but it fells nicer than a giant dude that attacks).

>

> _(and NO, the excuse that "we dont have the staff to do it so we are not doing it" is not valid. we are the consumers, the devs make the game, we keep it alive. (that's why runescape still lives, democracy in a game isn't that bad ;) )_

 

You also can't do wow raids with 486 add ons. I've been watching Quin do mythic kj prog and it's hilarious how much outside game programs you need to have any chance at killing bosses at the top end.

[zealex.9410]

> @Voujs.6942 said:

> Why do you guys think that **WoW** is know for its raids?

> 1. **They are well polished**. I have done some raids in gw2 and they are not very well polished, the movement of the boss, the hitbox of the attacks, the phases, they should be more visible (visibility dont means less difficulty, its means better experience)

> 2. ** they have difficulty scales and scaled loot **~~(of course)~~. Player that dont know raids (casuals, pugs, call them whatever you want) dont do them because of it. They should have access to ALL the content of the game (they are paying for it, right?) but you should do that without punishing the hardcorenolife players. its not that hard, rework your LFG and you get 2 problems at once. (its even easier in gw2 cuz we dont have the holy trinity game type, so its basically a easier raid for casual to know the mechanics and play the whole game content)

> 3. **Boss aren't just big lifeless mobs that drop loot, they make some funny comments or wanna kill your parents** (it doesnt add much but it fells nicer than a giant dude that attacks).

>

> _(and NO, the excuse that "we dont have the staff to do it so we are not doing it" is not valid. we are the consumers, the devs make the game, we keep it alive. (that's why runescape still lives, democracy in a game isn't that bad ;) )_

 

Wow's main endgame are raids. Make sense all these things would be there.

[Ohoni.6057]

> @Fatalyz.7168 said:

> > @Ohoni.6057 said:

> > There needs to be a way for the very many "not interested in challenging content" players of the game to access Legendary armor though.

>

> There is, WvW and PvP. They both have their own attainable Legendary set.

 

Those are PvP methods, I'm talking PvE methods. There needs to be a way for the many GW2 players who only play PvEm, and who have NO interest in the sort of challenging content that the devs insist for Raids to have, to still have a path to those Legendary armor skins. There is no reason why they should be blocked out of the process, when they make up a larger number than those who enjoy raiding.

[Luna.1598]

I'm fine with raids being difficult. What I'm not fine with is the fact it takes so many people to do them. Most of the time is spent on training groups that are more interested afk training. I'm a decent player and have done what research I can, but research and trying with "Training Groups" that have no intention of doing anything other than wasting time can only take you so far.

I don't think its fair to people who have put in the time and effort to then lower the difficulty. Keep in mind that I have not completed a raid at all and most likely will not due to the number of people required and the time that I refuse to waste anymore.

[Fatalyz.7168]

> @Ohoni.6057 said:

> > @Fatalyz.7168 said:

> > > @Ohoni.6057 said:

> > > There needs to be a way for the very many "not interested in challenging content" players of the game to access Legendary armor though.

> >

> > There is, WvW and PvP. They both have their own attainable Legendary set.

>

> Those are PvP methods, I'm talking PvE methods. There needs to be a way for the many GW2 players who only play PvEm, and who have NO interest in the sort of challenging content that the devs insist for Raids to have, to still have a path to those Legendary armor skins..

 

Would have helped your case to specify that you were talking about PvE.

 

But, to answer you. No, there doesn't need to be another PvE way to obtain legendary armor. There isn't a legendary backpiece that can be earned through raids, not that it needs one. Just like the back pieces, there is a pve, wvw, and pvp method to obtain a legendary armor. Heck, the new Legendary acc, requires heavy investment in LW season 3, it wouldn't surprise me if WvW and PvP get an acc that requires heavy investment. The community (read: majority) wanted exclusive rewards, we will continue to receive exclusive rewards. That is a good thing for the game.

 

Specifically speaking of the skin, no, it should remain exclusive to it's mode. All modes should have skins that are unique to those modes.

[Badby Myself.4759]

I just want to leave this thought here.....

Raids should not be for everyone..... just as PvP is not for everyone...WvW is not for everyone...and yes...PvE is not for everyone. I like that I can raid with a group of friends or join a group from the LFG. Just as I could PvP with friends or just randomly join and the same goes for all game types. Why should raids be changed? Because wvw people want to take their wvw builds in to raids and fail? (Yes I have seen this) Because people want to take their PvE "Bear Bow" in to raids and wonder why 1) it's not dying or 2) why am I dead? (I have witnessed this was well).

 

Not every game type is for everyone and I like that people that play can choose to do them all or pick what they love best about it. If you are seriously interested in learning/doing raids you will find a way.... I did this a little over a year ago and I am currently working on the last legendary armor set. If all you want is to complain about it being hard...remember....there are other parts of the game you can play that are not that hard.

 

Someone stated that it should be easier so that others can get in there and do the story and map...... there is no story....no mapping .....it does not count towards map completion. Another comment i read about adding a difficulty level to it where beginners could get a 33% damage increase.... if it was that easy to get legendary insights everyone would do it that way. If it is the legendary armor you are looking for ..... WvW has a set much easier to get all you have to do is ....play WvW .

 

Again... raids should be left alone.... Not every game type is for every one.....

[Astralporing.1957]

> @Fatalyz.7168 said:

> > @Ohoni.6057 said:

> > > @Fatalyz.7168 said:

> > > > @Ohoni.6057 said:

> > > > There needs to be a way for the very many "not interested in challenging content" players of the game to access Legendary armor though.

> > >

> > > There is, WvW and PvP. They both have their own attainable Legendary set.

> >

> > Those are PvP methods, I'm talking PvE methods. There needs to be a way for the many GW2 players who only play PvEm, and who have NO interest in the sort of challenging content that the devs insist for Raids to have, to still have a path to those Legendary armor skins..

>

> No, there doesn't need to be another PvE way to obtain legendary armor. Specifically speaking of the skin, no, it should remain exclusive to it's mode. All modes should have skins that are unique to those modes.

 

What about a _different_ legendary PvE armor that's not obtained through raids/raidlike content?

Yeah, i know Anet said they are not going to make a second set. Which is the main reason why people are talking about accessibility of a raid one.

[Vayne.8563]

My argument has always been that if raids had been in the game from day one, it would be easier for me to accept this stance, but they weren't. So the game that was 100% for me is now 95% for me, but that 5% is a pretty visible percent. I'm still never going to agree with a specific reward being locked behind content that I'll probably never enjoy or do. It doesn't matter that it's the hardest content in the game. What matters is the game ran along for 3.5 years without anything nearly this difficult and then it was plopped into the game out of the blue. So people who were happy with the game for 3.5 years are going to possibly be thrown off, making it feel like its' less like their game.

 

Unfortunately the raids came out during the 9 month PvE content draught where they were the only new PvE content available. By the time the smoke cleared a lot of casual players had already been disenfranchised by the changes. Because some people also had trouble with HOT difficulty it cauased an outcry from the more casual members of the community.

 

With the return of the Living Story stuff, a lot of my complains have been answered, but I still have one complaint left. The people who are often most interested in story and lore are often not as interested in casual content to begin with. Locking those people out of any story (and don't say they're locked out because they can raid. It's asking them to play a whole different game). Those people feel that they're missing out on something that is part of their primary interest in the game. I'm one of those people, even though I have done some raids. I don't have interest in raids, I don't enjoy raids, and making me go into them to get the lore and story remains a mistake in my opinion

 

Still it is what it is. I guess I'll just have to swallow it

[Fatalyz.7168]

> @Astralporing.1957 said:

> > @Fatalyz.7168 said:

> > > @Ohoni.6057 said:

> > > > @Fatalyz.7168 said:

> > > > > @Ohoni.6057 said:

> > > > > There needs to be a way for the very many "not interested in challenging content" players of the game to access Legendary armor though.

> > > >

> > > > There is, WvW and PvP. They both have their own attainable Legendary set.

> > >

> > > Those are PvP methods, I'm talking PvE methods. There needs to be a way for the many GW2 players who only play PvEm, and who have NO interest in the sort of challenging content that the devs insist for Raids to have, to still have a path to those Legendary armor skins..

> >

> > No, there doesn't need to be another PvE way to obtain legendary armor. Specifically speaking of the skin, no, it should remain exclusive to it's mode. All modes should have skins that are unique to those modes.

>

> What about a _different_ legendary PvE armor that's not obtained through raids/raidlike content?

> Yeah, i know Anet said they are not going to make a second set. Which is the main reason why people are talking about accessibility of a raid one.

 

Having a different set available through PvE, wouldn't be a bad thing. The issue that I see, unlike what they did with WvW and PvP, is which skin do they use to allow you to turn into Legendary or do they create a whole new skin? A new skin is most likely out of the question, unless it's more inline with more standard armor sets, definitely would not be animated like the current set.

[Skolops.2604]

> @Fatalyz.7168 said:

> > @SirMoogie.9263 said:

> > > @"Crystal Reid.2481" said:

> > >

> > > We won't be adding a different difficulty tier at this time. Raids need to continue to remain the most challenging content in the game, and they aren't designed to be accessible by everyone from a skill perspective.

> >

> > The big question is why are they aren't designed to be more accessible to different skill levels given that they are telling stories that many players would like to experience (in character), my small guild included? They can still remain the most challenging content, while offering different skill levels, as you yourselves have proven with the challenge motes.

> >

> >

>

> They aren't designed to be more accessible because it would detract from being able to push out content at an acceptable rate. She even mentioned it in her reply, "... any solution would detract away from the team making more raid content." The only solution to being able to continue to release raids at the clip that they are, while providing more difficulty levels, would be to hire more people. For a game that isn't considered raid-centric, that would seem to be a poor use of resources. In the current set-up, it's a small team or two that are working on them, not a lot of resources.

>

> At the end of the day, they had/have a very specific vision for Raids in GW2. They've told us their vision, and stood by it. At some point, you have to start accepting it, otherwise you just end up bitter (not you specifically, just people in general seem to get bitter when fighting to understand or change something, and it never comes to fruition).

 

I'm not sure whether or not this is really the reasoning she gave (the "any solution" comment referred to solutions to LFG problems, not raid difficulty), but either way it seems to me that it is a fairly unsatisfying line of reasoning. There are any number of MMOs - both those with more success and greater revenue than GW2 and those with less - which release group content at a faster pace than we get in GW2 and which provide different tiers of difficulty for that content.

[Randulf.7614]

> @FrostDraco.8306 said:

> > @Randulf.7614 said:

> > As someone who hasn't raided yet, I think this is the right way forward, although the accessibility thing is very important. The more players who feel encouraged and comfortable to raid, the better the future for them. Without a steady supply of new players, they risk becoming content which no longer warrants the investment in making them. I;d hate to see that since even though I haven't raided yet, I understand the need to have them as part of the health of the game.

>

> The problem with making them any easier than they are now, is that it basically dooms them to become just that. Content devoid of investment. You barely have to invest anything as now, even when you arent being entirely serious.

>

> People keep saying they need to be made easier or have more tiers, and I am constantly poised to force them to look at dungeons. Look at how accessible dungeons are. Look at how much was invested in their creation. And look at how much they warrant the investment in making them.

>

> When you make content too easy the player-base that ACTUALLY PLAYS IT isn't nearly as invested. Do you think raiders are not invested in raids? What about the people who constantly talk about how much their needs to be separate tiers, but have never raided?! How can you say anything about investment when the people who care, and are invested are actually out there raiding? That's how you know they are invested.

>

> You know who isn't invested? The people who post threads like this every week, saying they barely raid, and don't want to put in the work, but want all the experience of those who have. Those people are not invested. Hence they do not warrant an investment in making modified, or lower tier content 'just' to make them feel welcome. It's not healthy to tailor content to players that aren't really interested in it in the first place.

>

> Have those people get some raid experience and become a part of the community. Then I, and everyone else, would be more likely to listen. But by then, their opinion would probably have changed.

 

I think you should re-read my post because I largely agree with you ;) although it may have been less clear my reply was in answer to the dev post which I forgot to quote

 

I don't think the difficulty should be adjusted or a story mode added - and that's from the perspective of someone who hasn't raided in this game (yet). It's the accessibility I have an issue with and how hard it is to get new players to cross that threshold and join. There are a lot of factors here which is why it is hard to solve, but I don't think reducing the difficulty is the right answer for the reasons you state above.

 

It's the last point you make which I was highlighting. Getting that experience to be taken seriously, when they aren't taken seriously to start with, in order to get that experience. That's just one factor of the accessibility issue

[Fatalyz.7168]

> @Skolops.2604 said:

> > @Fatalyz.7168 said:

> > > @SirMoogie.9263 said:

> > > > @"Crystal Reid.2481" said:

> > > >

> > > > We won't be adding a different difficulty tier at this time. Raids need to continue to remain the most challenging content in the game, and they aren't designed to be accessible by everyone from a skill perspective.

> > >

> > > The big question is why are they aren't designed to be more accessible to different skill levels given that they are telling stories that many players would like to experience (in character), my small guild included? They can still remain the most challenging content, while offering different skill levels, as you yourselves have proven with the challenge motes.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > They aren't designed to be more accessible because it would detract from being able to push out content at an acceptable rate. She even mentioned it in her reply, "... any solution would detract away from the team making more raid content." The only solution to being able to continue to release raids at the clip that they are, while providing more difficulty levels, would be to hire more people. For a game that isn't considered raid-centric, that would seem to be a poor use of resources. In the current set-up, it's a small team or two that are working on them, not a lot of resources.

> >

> > At the end of the day, they had/have a very specific vision for Raids in GW2. They've told us their vision, and stood by it. At some point, you have to start accepting it, otherwise you just end up bitter (not you specifically, just people in general seem to get bitter when fighting to understand or change something, and it never comes to fruition).

>

> I'm not sure whether or not this is really the reasoning she gave (the "any solution" comment referred to solutions to LFG problems, not raid difficulty), but either way it seems to me that it is a fairly unsatisfying line of reasoning. There are any number of MMOs - both those with more success and greater revenue than GW2 and those with less - which release group content at a faster pace than we get in GW2 and which provide different tiers of difficulty for that content.

 

Those other games, if talking about Raids, are raids the prominent end game in those games? If yes, then it makes sense that they would put more effort into their raids.

Do those other games provide niche content that not everyone enjoys? If yes, then you understand the position of raids in this game.

 

Being able to release faster or not, I can't speak to as I don't develop for Anet. I do know that their engine is a modified version of the original GW engine from 2007. I do know that they have said that there is a lot of "spaghetti code". I also know every developer has their own release cycle. At one point this game had a release cycle of two weeks. That felt too hectic, while between HoT and LW3 was too long. The current pace since the start of LW3, of every 2-3 months, is a pretty good pace. For a game that caters to a casual crowd, obviously not so much to a more hardcore crowd.

[Sarat Roy.1935]

> @Zefiris.8297 said:

> > @"Sarat Roy.1935" said:

> > the bar for raids is EXTREMELY low as it is

>

> The bar for raids in WoW or FFXIV is this:

> DO a few quests (or just buy em), gear out the character, click button, open interface, click other button. That's it.

>

> The bar for raids in GW2 is this:

> Level crafting to maximum, farm specific gear by doing specific meta events over and over, don't be deaf (to use discord/teamspeak), be the right class, have work at the right time to be online when training runs are around, and then finally manage to get a spot.

>

> The bar is not "extremely low", it's probably the highest bar in any current MMO.

> Seriously:The bar to raiding in GW2 is probably a bit higher as it was in classic WoW and about the same as it was in the Burning Crusade, attunements and heroics included.

>

> That's not inherently bad or anything, it's just how it is.

>

> (And yes, I can compare. I've played both FFXIV and WoW quite a bit, one for my job, the other with some friends. In their current forms, both have a much lower barrier of entry for raids. In FFXIV, for example, I could come on at any time, hit the duty finder for a tougher raid, and get into a run quickly, no need for vent, no need to worry about my class, it just worked. This also led to the average player being better at the game, as a side effect)

 

Wow had a lower bar for raids than gw2?? I mean no, it didn't. I don't know about FFXIV but I do know that getting ascended gear in gw2 is not a big grind compared to getting the best stat gear in other MMOs. On top of that, anet have said ascended gear will ALWAYS BE the highest stat gear in the game (i.e after you get one set for one armour type you dont even need to get another set.. even if you chose to take a 5 years break from the game), AND swapping the stats only requires a small fee. I got my alt account its first full clear with sub 100 hours of gameplay (That includes grinding mastery upto leyline, and autoloot in regular tyria). I have screenshots if you want to DM me and I can show you. Right now its 135 hours of play with about 80Li.

 

By setting the bars low in raids I should elaborate. When bosses have half their enrage timer left, that means you can do HALF AS MUCH DAMAGE AND STILL SUCCEED IN THE RAID. If that doesn't say something about the "meta" that all the casuals cry about then I don't know what does. If all the Necro mains want to play necro and clear, go ahead, it would actually work. In reality they wont because they are bad. If you cant put 100 hours in to clearing end game content, stop feeling entitled to content that is labelled end game content.

[Sarat Roy.1935]

> @Crevox.5806 said:

>

I believe that this stems from the fact that there really is no way to judge a persons preparedness for raids.

>

> I agree with you that this is (at least partially) where it stems from. A lot of the content in this game is very easy and people have no benchmark for themselves or others to determine how good they are. I've seen it myself in the hundreds of fractals I've run: player quality is ALL OVER the place. Not only is there no way for any individual to determine ahead of time if you know what you're doing, but a lot of players themselves don't even know if they're performing well, because the game gives so little feedback on that fact for you to form an understanding. Refining my gameplay and build/etc has gotten much easier thanks to having a DPS meter, but due to the nature of this game, I highly doubt the majority of players take that effort. I just started doing T4 fractals last night and the player quality so far has not improved from doing T1-T3 pugs; the bosses just take longer. I would say 99% of the players I've partied with would not be ready for a raid just by looking at their DPS, let alone their ability to handle their mechanics. That's totally fine, raids aren't for everyone and not everyone has to perform at that level, but when these players want to actually do raids, they hold back the groups because they aren't prepared (and I'm not saying that is their fault either).

>

> And look, I don't mean to sound egotistical; I just know where I stand, and took the effort to figure that out as well. There are players like me out there that want to get into raids and are confident in doing so. However, there is no avenue for us to take to get going. Everyone says to just do the "training runs"; which, like you said, is basically an audition. And yeah, sure, maybe that's the way to go, but that's currently 1000 players trying to fit through a door with 3 people leading them through it, PER BOSS. It's a long line of waiting and most people probably aren't ready for it. I've seen the discords come back and say the training groups failed the VG runs, and while I've never done VG (so this may be presumptuous), I find it difficult to believe that he did not die. Even if I finally get into the mythical unicorn "VG training run", what's next? Another 1000 hours of searching for the next boss "training run?" And so on? I just came back to the game, I haven't done any of the bosses, and sure seems like there's quite a few.

>

> So yeah, while I understand the community's concern, this still leads to a situation where you have these fancy tight knit groups doing all the fun and difficult content, and anyone else is struggling to get into this fancy "elite" groups to do the content, while they sometimes decide to take a couple players to "train" them. I am looking for a better way to get going and hoping ArenaNet does something to facilitate this.

 

This is actually an interesting post. A lot of good guilds (mine included) will trial you regardless of Li if you can hit 85%+ of qTs class benchmark on the golem with realistic buffs and have a basic understanding of raid mechanics (which you can learn from guides/videos/even bad practice runs). The 3 guild leaders frequently host LFGs looking for suitable players, but most players that want to raid simply want to get carried, do not look at guides, do not learn their best skill rotations, and just feel entitled to get carried. Some people literally get offended when I ask them to read a boss guide. The casual communities views in the amount of efforts they need to put into raids are disgusting. They simply want carried. If they put the effort in, they would find a guild, which is exactly what I did when starting raiding.

 

So to answer your question, to get into a 'elite' group, you actually need to BE ELITE. And you get that way by practising as I mentioned above, and being very good at your class. Li means nothing if you have the ability to read/learn your rotation. The problem is people feel entitled to maximum reward with no work required.

[Scaretactic.8765]

> @Zefiris.8297 said:

> > @"Sarat Roy.1935" said:

> > the bar for raids is EXTREMELY low as it is

>

> The bar for raids in WoW or FFXIV is this:

> DO a few quests (or just buy em), gear out the character, click button, open interface, click other button. That's it.

>

> The bar for raids in GW2 is this:

> Level crafting to maximum, farm specific gear by doing specific meta events over and over, don't be deaf (to use discord/teamspeak), be the right class, have work at the right time to be online when training runs are around, and then finally manage to get a spot.

>

> The bar is not "extremely low", it's probably the highest bar in any current MMO.

> Seriously:The bar to raiding in GW2 is probably a bit higher as it was in classic WoW and about the same as it was in the Burning Crusade, attunements and heroics included.

>

> That's not inherently bad or anything, it's just how it is.

>

> (And yes, I can compare. I've played both FFXIV and WoW quite a bit, one for my job, the other with some friends. In their current forms, both have a much lower barrier of entry for raids. In FFXIV, for example, I could come on at any time, hit the duty finder for a tougher raid, and get into a run quickly, no need for vent, no need to worry about my class, it just worked. This also led to the average player being better at the game, as a side effect)

 

How can you say that the bar for raiding is high when you can very comfortably raid with gear worth 100g bought on the trading post, which is less than 10€ of gems converted to gold. You MUST be a troll or incredibly misinformed. Do you realize by how many minutes AN AVERAGE PUG GROUP beats the enrage timer with not even meta builds and most of the time cheap or no food and utility ??? The absolute only character you have to do some kind of grind for that you can't buy your way through with 10 bucks is chrono because of runes of leadership and even for that we have alternatives. Reading this nonsense... just ouch.

[FrizzFreston.5290]

I'm just gonna hope for a storymode from any other non raid devs.

Which is on the list of story things that should be in the game but aren't. Like Living Season 1, Raid story as LS, historical side stories (Bonus mission pack like), Library for all your books, Order missions/quests, Pact missions/quests and other such sidestory fluff.

 

In the mean time I'll just try to join the Raidgroups. It's not like I don't mind the challenge, just don't have a regular timeslot open for it.

[GrandPaladinTyrux.5918]

> @"Crystal Reid.2481" said:

> New forum, so I'll jump in with a new post on this.

>

> We won't be adding a different difficulty tier at this time. Raids need to continue to remain the most challenging content in the game, and they aren't designed to be accessible by everyone from a skill perspective. Could they be more accessible from a "finding 9 other players to play with" side? Sure. That isn't always an easy problem to solve, and any solution would detract away from the team making more raid content. We'd love to get more content out to you guys faster really.

>

> I see a lot of comments about W4 difficulty, so I'll add some notes on that as well. Balance came in later than expected since we had far more bosses and content to test than usual. Are we totally happy with how balance turned out? Yes and no. The Mursaat Overseer base difficulty is too easy, but we were very happy with the CM difficulty. For the next release we'd like to get difficulty tuned more back in line with Spirit Vale. However, some of that original difficulty and magic is hard to re-capture. You never forget your first raid boss kill.

 

Spirit Vale was definitely pretty nice difficulty wise, glad that having a 'free loot' boss in W4 as some call it wasn't intentional. Looking forward to the next raid, keep up the good work guys \[T]/

[meeflak.9714]

Just wanted to say, although I stand by most of what I said in this thread. I may have got alittle too worked up, If so I'm sorry <3 I love the vision arenanet had for raids, and drifting too far away from that could really ruin what they've created, imo at least.i know alot disagree with the current stance, and my own, but it's what alot of us were looking for in gw2 and it would be sad to see such a drastic change that distracts from the vision anet has moving forward

[Blaeys.3102]

> @meeflak.9714 said:

> Just wanted to say, although I stand by most of what I said in this thread. I may have got alittle too worked up, If so I'm sorry <3 I love the vision arenanet had for raids, and drifting too far away from that could really ruin what they've created, imo at least.i know alot disagree with the current stance, and my own, but it's what alot of us were looking for in gw2 and it would be sad to see such a drastic change that distracts from the vision anet has moving forward

 

Even though we probably represent polar opinions on this topic, I will second the sentiment - and respect you posting this a whole lot. Maintaining a civil discussion is of utmost importance. For what it's worth, I haven't seen you say anything out of sorts (most have been pretty good about that). This discussion can get pretty heated. It's good to see people capable of having an actual conversation despite that.

 

For someone like me, that left WoW after leading hardcore progression raid groups for 6+ years, I looked at GW2 as a place to escape that mindset - a game where I could group up with 30+ friends and just enjoy the story, the fights and the general feel of the game. I guess I see this kind of raid model as antithetical to what GW2 was for me when it launched and in its first few years - backtracking to the very thing I was trying to get away from. And I definitely know that I, like you, can get a little excitable about the topic.