Bring back underwater combat!

[Genesis.5169]

Title says it all, people didn't like it because they can't be bothered to account for a complete 3d environment, ignore them Anet make the content and they will come they will complain and moan but eventually they will learn and come to like the underwater combat, you guys jumped ship far too soon.

[lokh.2695]

Bring back underwater combat.

...or at least make all new elites not useless underwater...

[YoukiNeko.6047]

Bring back underwater content but remove underwater combat.

Underwater is great for exploration but the combat just doesn't work there.

[Sarge shot Grif.6450]

I would LOVE to see a big patch dedicated solely to fixing underwater combat, the idea and groundwork for something great really is there but it just needs the attention it deserves to make it work

[TEKnowledgy.1760]

They would need to do a whole lotta work for underwater combat to be fun again. In the starting days of gw2 think we all really enjoyed it because it was a different mechanic then most gw1 players was used to, but now meh. I'd be happy if tyria became a dried up wasteland like in mad max world/game lol (or just left alone as is but not expanded apon). There is so many classes that need to be worked on engineer really needs something better than harpoon gun its awful! Lets not even dive into the appalling revenant class while in water lol. More than half it's legends dont work in water including both legend elites. They would have to waste alotta time to make water combat worth it to everyone again. Now when we put everything on the table that they have to upkeep and tweak on and prepare for us, do you think they really have the time to rework water combat? Probably not. Just to much high expectation for other content like LS4+ including other expansions wvw/pvp balancing goes on and on I just doubt water combat is on the major priority list ya know? I just wouldn't get ya hopes to high for it to come.

I have a hard time being optimistic about the future of water combat, knowing what i know, seeing where the direction of the games content went and is going as a whole.

[Silyth.7382]

It'll have to happen when we go fight the one deep sea dragon ( I don't think we know his name yet). The one the quaggan are fleeing from.

[Duke Darkwood.4237]

Aquatic combat needs a revamp. Me, I actually /like/ it, but realize that a great many do not. Unfortunately, Arenanet's answer was to start ignoring it - the NPE actually relocated some start zone content to be less aquatic, and when was the last time you've seen new skins for spears, harpoon guns, or tridents?

 

So, ignoring it is not the answer. A revamp could be. I don't think MUCH needs to be done, but retooling more skills to perform better while underwater is at least one thing they need.

 

Interestingly, while I personally don't use it (in or out of water, aside from a few very specific places), the "action camera" mode could conceivably be used to help people who have trouble with underwater combat. (Although, really, I think a great amount of players are too lazy to account for a third dimension, and am not sure what tweaking could be done to help them.)

 

I do not want aquatic content to be removed. I do think it needs to be attended to on some level to get people a reason to try it again.

[Thelgar.7214]

There should be an Asura in the starting zone named Exxon Valdez to commemorate the ruining of Lake Jetz and its events. :( The destruction of the Asura starting zone is unforgivable.

[Fengzhou.9853]

I don't mind underwater combat if it wasn't for the fact that SOME classes do well under water and others just struggle to dish out enough damage to not die...

[Oglaf.1074]

> @Genesis.5169 said:

> Title says it all, people didn't like it because they can't be bothered to account for a complete 3d environment

 

No it is because it is garbage all around. The 3D movement has literally nothing to do with it.

 

Nice strawman though.

 

Underwater combat would need a total redesign before they could add any serious content with it.

[Therys.4368]

 

> @TEKnowledgy.1760 said:

> They would need to do a whole lotta work for underwater combat to be fun again. In the starting days of gw2 think we all really enjoyed it because it was a different mechanic then most gw1 players was used to, but now meh. I'd be happy if tyria became a dried up wasteland like in mad max world/game lol (or just left alone as is but not expanded apon). There is so many classes that need to be worked on engineer really needs something better than harpoon gun its awful! Lets not even dive into the appalling revenant class while in water lol. More than half it's legends dont work in water including both legend elites. They would have to waste alotta time to make water combat worth it to everyone again. Now when we put everything on the table that they have to upkeep and tweak on and prepare for us, do you think they really have the time to rework water combat? Probably not. Just to much high expectation for other content like LS4+ including other expansions wvw/pvp balancing goes on and on I just doubt water combat is on the major priority list ya know? I just wouldn't get ya hopes to high for it to come.

> I have a hard time being optimistic about the future of water combat, knowing what i know, seeing where the direction of the games content went and is going as a whole.

 

All of this.

My engineer had a terrible time during Scarlet's invasion when I had to fight Toxic Alliance krait that can put up projectile-reflecting bubbles underwater. Besides being a sitting duck or running, I had to equip bomb kit or tool kit, sacrificing a utility slot for an ability many classes have to just switch to a spear. Some traits even break underwater skills. Auto-stunbreak traits will trigger on underwater weapons that pull you to a target because that counts as a disable. Guardian Symbol traits are completely useless underwater too. All racial skills do not work underwater.

And sigh, Revenant. Two-thirds of its legends (ventari, glint, jalis, now kalla as well) are disabled underwater, and only one underwater weapon. It is a huge issue when a class does not have the skills it needs to deal with various threats. Less skills mean less flexibility.

 

I agree that a major issue is it is difficult to aim skills in 3d within the current system. After some thought, ideas that let us target in a third dimension also means adding more work per skill-cast, slowing combat down for us, and tiring us out faster if a fight is as beefy as some of the living story bosses solo. Example, if we had: Tap 1, place reticle on the same 2d plane as yourself, tap 1 again to adjust its height relative to that plane, then tap again to cast. Or hold to target in 2d, hold to adjust height, then release to cast. Something like this will let me place a skill anywhere I'd like, but this is double the work of casting on land, and it will be more tiresome, and slower and i'd be busy aiming rather than doing something important like dodging a one-hit kill move. I would be delighted already if Anet continues slowly unlocking skills underwater (like the Guardian Spirit Weapon rework) making these targeted AoEs just be a PBAoE, or an AoE on target. No clue what we can do with 'Wall' type AoE though. Those will be wonky if we try to aim those up/down (Gimbal lock). Maybe it can be a circular wall :p

 

 

I want to like aquatic combat, but its not fun when I feel my options are vastly reduced from whats available on land. I'm optimistic we'll get there.

 

 

[Majic.4801]

As incomplete as it is, I love underwater combat in GW2 and would love to see more of it.

 

But to suggest that ArenaNet ignore what most people want in favor of what fewer people want is a strategy that is, frankly, dead in the water.

 

My advice: Don't hold your breath. ;)

[Genesis.5169]

The campaign continues on!

[Teratus.2859]

I wish more skills were usable underwater.. that's probably the biggest problem with it.

 

Many builds don't work UW.. all it really needs is a big rework in that area.

 

Personally I love Gw2's underwater combat.. it's by far the best I've played in any MMO by a longshot.. and I really hate that it's been neglected so much.

Considering we have an Elder Dragon based on a water domain it's a real disappointment that UW combat has been ignored for so long.

[OriOri.8724]

> @"Duke Darkwood.4237" said:

> Aquatic combat needs a revamp. Me, I actually /like/ it, but realize that a great many do not. Unfortunately, Arenanet's answer was to start ignoring it - the NPE actually relocated some start zone content to be less aquatic, and when was the last time you've seen new skins for spears, harpoon guns, or tridents?

>

> So, ignoring it is not the answer. A revamp could be. I don't think MUCH needs to be done, but retooling more skills to perform better while underwater is at least one thing they need.

>

> Interestingly, while I personally don't use it (in or out of water, aside from a few very specific places), the "action camera" mode could conceivably be used to help people who have trouble with underwater combat. (Although, really, I think a great amount of players are too lazy to account for a third dimension, and am not sure what tweaking could be done to help them.)

>

> I do not want aquatic content to be removed. I do think it needs to be attended to on some level to get people a reason to try it again.

 

If Anet is going to revamp UW combat, then they actually do need to put in a lot of work to it. The bare minimum that should be considered acceptable is to put the work in so that ALL skills work UW, no exceptions. Its fine if a skill has to function differently UW than it does on land, as long as it works. Along with that, we would need massive rebalancing to UW skills across the board, simply due to the insane number of new skills being added to it (not to mention that some skills that currently work UW are different from their regular versions for no readily apparent reason). Then, even though this isn't technically part of the bare minimum no UW revamp should ship without this, all traits should be updated to work correctly UW. As others pointed out in this thread, some of them don't work in UW combat for various reasons.

 

And that is just the bare minimum, yet it would represent more work than a year's worth of balance patches in terms of how many skills would need to be updated.

 

Then you have stuff that isn't technically the minimum amount of work required, but should be done anyway if Anet is going to put this many resources towards UW combat. This would be a lot of things, not limited to:

 

* Balance downed state in UW. Why can we bandage UW but not on the surface? Why are there places in Orr maps (and I'm sure in a few other maps), where the water is at such a depth that its too deep to stand and fight, but also too shallow for you to dive down, so creatures can attack you and you can't do anything about it except try to outswim them? Why do rangers get such a ridiculous downed state in UW?

* Remove stats from aquabreathers and simply make them a purely cosmetic item. Have your character keep the stats and rune effects from his helmet while UW.

* Moving into UW should be a FULL build swap, not just skills. Its kind of pointless to automatically swap your skills out if your traits aren't touched........

 

Personally, any UW feature update that didn't include at least all of the above would be a waste of time on Anet's part, because it wouldn't make me like UW any more than I do now. But more stuff could be done as well, such as updating how you move in UW, updating mob aggro and leash radius to reflect that there is no terrain for them to have to walk around/over (leading to some ridiculous situations in Orr maps where UW mobs may follow you across half the map before you exit their leash range. This doesn't happen on land where there are structures in their way (since they can't jump), or walking up/down hills/around objects uses up huge parts of their leash).

 

This is the type of work that I would expect to see put into UW combat if it got overhauled. And even then there's no guarantee that I or many others would enjoy it.

[BlueIce.6951]

> Interestingly, while I personally don't use it (in or out of water, aside from a few very specific places), the "action camera" mode could conceivably be used to help people who have trouble with underwater combat. (Although, really, I think a great amount of players are too lazy to account for a third dimension, and am not sure what tweaking could be done to help them.)

>

 

I am one of the people who found underwater combat to be extremely difficult and avoided it at all costs. I did take into account the third dimension but I found myself always missing the mark for where I wanted to be and finding placing myself in relation to npc's and items hard to figure out. I had the same difficulty with Tangled Depths and avoid that map except for specific goals.

 

Gliding is what made me realize why I was having a hard time underwater and with Tangled Depths. I have no point of reference for distances underwater and trying to orient around what I can see does not translate correctly in my brain as it does on land or in the air.

 

I think what would help people like me is more of an angled grid map or maybe a secondary map ui that can be toggled to show depth and/or display the environment more like the land maps with visible gradations in landscape (seascape).

 

Once I realized that, I started orienting on different objects that I could place size/shape in relation to my character. I still have difficulty when switching between playable races and it takes a lot of time/effort to adjust my spatial awareness appropriately.

 

I now actively champion water content with my friends and really hope that ANET adds in a lot more water content/combat. I would love to see a change to water maps to help me orient, and I still do have a very difficult time in certain water areas (mostly the greater depth areas and inside caves/ships), but I no longer avoid the water.

 

I am also hoping for more water based pets for my ranger.... I really want one of those cosmic shark thingies and a kraken.

 

[Cyrin.1035]

Yesssss. Please. There is nothing I want more than this in GW 2. But housing comes close ;)

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

> @"lokh.2695" said:

> Bring back underwater combat.

> ...or at least make all new elites not useless underwater...

 

Don't know about you, but I find Firebrand and Necro (as a whole) really decent for underwater. Those tomes seem to do the same damage on land in the water (and underwater in general seems so underpowered and undertweaked) and Necros with all the conditions really do wonders in my opinion. Scourge just made it much better.

 

> @"YoukiNeko.6047" said:

> Bring back underwater content but remove underwater combat.

> Underwater is great for exploration but the combat just doesn't work there.

 

Problem is they can't seem to pick one or the other.

The underwater area I like the most is Lion's Arch for obvious reasons. I hate areas like Orr and PoF underwater though. Can't think of other underwater areas I hate as much as.... okay any underwater areas with Kraits that has BOTH push and pull choices so they can decide to pull me to them but then push me when they want.

Even worse when I'm not in the mood to fight and I just want to get to a destination which I can't get to by land at all so I'm forced trying to run away... to get pulled back about 20 feet... then I try to run more but more Kraits aggro and they start a pulling frenzy.

 

> @"Sarge shot Grif.6450" said:

> I would LOVE to see a big patch dedicated solely to fixing underwater combat, the idea and groundwork for something great really is there but it just needs the attention it deserves to make it work

 

Only after land combat... it's much better than underwater, but they still got a lot of fixing to do for on land combat before they try and tackle underwater and somehow make it WORSE than it is now.

 

> @"Fengzhou.9853" said:

> I don't mind underwater combat if it wasn't for the fact that SOME classes do well under water and others just struggle to dish out enough damage to not die...

 

Quick question as I barely brushed Warrior as a class, can it do anything than .00001% damage underwater? I'm just wondering as I did get to play one of my friend's Warriors once underwater and it seems like he has to either take a few years to kill something OR maybe get downed in a battle and then kill it during a "rally" back to life.

 

 

[Quarktastic.1027]

> @"YoukiNeko.6047" said:

> Bring back underwater content but remove underwater combat.

> Underwater is great for exploration but the combat just doesn't work there.

 

Bring back underwater content AND combat. I want to throw sharks at people again.

[zombyturtle.5980]

i really struggle with depth percepion underwater. its not that im lazy or cant be bothered, i just cannot judge distances on 3d planes that are open space.

 

for underwater combat to be enjoyable for me thi would need to be fixed with either much much better map design, or a counter on each targetable enemy/object that shows how far away it is and if its above or below me.

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

It would be nice that a selling feature (from their original commercials even) could be looked back on. I just don't think it will be feasible for ANET, when given people's complaints with the balance on land (regardless if said player's are right or not).

[Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921]

If they would do a skill overhaul for underwater there is far too little skills usable while underwater. Second is weapons, there are weapons like daggers or scepters for casters, that would still be usable in underwater combat that just aren't.

[Lunarlife.5128]

I think Anet needs to fix a bit more of the current balance issues than add something else that adds another level of complexity to the balance.

Also WoW's version of underwater failed hard (Even though I thought it was wonderful, beautiful, etc, that doesn't mean a majority hated it)

[Rauderi.8706]

> @"lokh.2695" said:

> Bring back underwater combat.

> ...or at least make ~~all new elites~~ half of all of our skills and *most of Revenant* not useless underwater...

 

 

[Lambros Augustus.6594]

Yah bring it back and keep it super simple.