Expac 3 focus on the community aspect?

[zealex.9410]

It feels like gw2 nowdays is much more of a single player than an mmo. I go to maps and never talk to anyone im doimg events and never organise or discuss with others. Im in a guild and barely have guild stuff to do. I extremely rarely make friends, real friends in this game anymore.

 

Now with wow classic comming back and looking at how that sense of community made that game huge i feel like this need to be a way bigger part of this game than it is.

 

Pof brought nothing that would help this issue no world bosses or metas that would require communication, no gms or feature that would make me socialise with ppl in my guild or look for one.

 

The are alot of communities outside of pve even that are slowly dying (pvp/wvw gvgs etc).

I understand that theres ppl that enjoy playing alone but this is an mmo and im tored of the overwhelming sense of "playing alone together"

 

I dont have high hopes that the next expac will focus at all on these aspects of the game but idk i thought id share my concerns in case anet listens.

 

It baffles me how a game with the word "guild" in the title is so antisocial thats all.

[BadSanta.6527]

In my opinion harder dungeons is the solution

[Evolute.6239]

> @BadSanta.6527 said:

> In my opinion harder dungeons is the solution

 

People complain about elitism getting 10 people together to do simple raids, and you want them to coordinate for harder group content?

 

I can imagine the forum threads already.

[BadSanta.6527]

> @Evolute.6239 said:

> > @BadSanta.6527 said:

> > In my opinion harder dungeons is the solution

>

> People complain about elitism getting 10 people together to do simple raids, and you want them to coordinate for harder group content?

>

> I can imagine the forum threads alr

Easier the raider and harder the avg dungeon (something like arha was)

[blambidy.3216]

As much as I would like to agree, I don’t think ArenaNet needs to add more things that involve more players. I mean pof should have metas yes, but to say that the reason there’s no communication in pof cause of metas is a lie. I’ve seen communication for bounties. Hps. Etc.

 

As much as I would like to back your opinion I’ve noticed it’s the timing of communication, and location. Lower maps will most likely have new people, or will be vacated if not new people. Unless there’s a meta. Same with other maps that don’t Involve expansions. As for expansions most people drive to ab during meta. And silverwastes are always have multiple people. Then your flooded with many.

 

As for communication with your guild. I’d personally ether ask everyday if somebody wants to do something. If not I would personally leave unless there are guild missions you enjoys with them. But if not drop them and find a better one.

 

Personally understanding the game. But only close to two years. The only times it’s a lot of social is ether during raiding, or fractals. Then it’s guilds. Other then that it’s not much talk unless you hit it off with someone you randomly find. But usually if you have problems like that always go for lfg for grouping. Those are usually best places.

 

I honestly don’t blame ArenaNet for the miss communication. I will say it’s the players.

[Coulter.2315]

> @BadSanta.6527 said:

> In my opinion harder dungeons is the solution

 

Totally agree, I didn't really care for dungeons in HoT but as I explorered PoF I felt a strong desire to find a tomb and group up with people to delve deeper. I am really missing the group experience connected to the world (and I'd want it to be harder), the exploration element of PoF with mounts brought me back to the wish for dungeons.

 

[zealex.9410]

> @blambidy.3216 said:

> As much as I would like to agree, I don’t think ArenaNet needs to add more things that involve more players. I mean pof should have metas yes, but to say that the reason there’s no communication in pof cause of metas is a lie. I’ve seen communication for bounties. Hps. Etc.

>

> As much as I would like to back your opinion I’ve noticed it’s the timing of communication, and location. Lower maps will most likely have new people, or will be vacated if not new people. Unless there’s a meta. Same with other maps that don’t Involve expansions. As for expansions most people drive to ab during meta. And silverwastes are always have multiple people. Then your flooded with many.

>

> As for communication with your guild. I’d personally ether ask everyday if somebody wants to do something. If not I would personally leave unless there are guild missions you enjoys with them. But if not drop them and find a better one.

>

> Personally understanding the game. But only close to two years. The only times it’s a lot of social is ether during raiding, or fractals. Then it’s guilds. Other then that it’s not much talk unless you hit it off with someone you randomly find. But usually if you have problems like that always go for lfg for grouping. Those are usually best places.

>

> I honestly don’t blame ArenaNet for the miss communication. I will say it’s the players.

 

This isnt specifically about metas. The game does nothing to make you go out of your way to talk to others, commit to something that is happening, look for ppl for something, share your opinion on a mater or some happening in game. Litterally none of those exists. And dont tell me they shouldt force ppl to get to socialise because thats what made this game a single player in the first place.

 

Ime doing metas is what got me to meet alot of ppl back when evebts were still new and "hard" and i was required to go out of my way and ask for advice or help.

 

Dont put the blame on the players they found that you can go throu the whole game and into endgame and never talk to anyone. Do you think they would go out of their way to do so?

 

Its only the fault of anet for ingoring core pillars of the mmos genre like social interaction and community

[zealex.9410]

> @BadSanta.6527 said:

> In my opinion harder dungeons is the solution

 

Id take it a step further and say the whole exp in pof could be summed up as "its too easy it needs to be harder"

[Healix.5819]

"Playing alone together" was the original design of events. The fact is, most people play MMOs like single player games. The goal was to naturally draw people together and lead into larger events, all without ever having to actually form a group or even coordinate. All of the original group content was balanced for 3+ average players, though world bosses were intended for 10. Then season 1 happened, which was always active because it was temporary, so everything was zerged. As a result, ArenaNet tried to split people up, which created the multi-group design and HoT followed on. This design however was guaranteed to fail, as it requires a much higher population, which simply isn't sustainable, especially as the difficulty increases. If they took Dragon's Stand for example and designed it to be more like an activity, making each lane an actual team and had you queue into it, it would have been far better off and realistically the only way to make large group events sustainable from a majority perspective.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

> @zealex.9410 said:

> > @BadSanta.6527 said:

> > In my opinion harder dungeons is the solution

>

> Id take it a step further and say the whole exp in pof could be summed up as "its too easy it needs to be harder"

 

A lot of PoF mobs are just as hard as a lot of the HOT mobs. I'd agree, though, that PoF lacks the complexity in meta chains that HOT features -- if that's what you mean by hard.

[Coulter.2315]

> @Healix.5819 said:

> "Playing alone together" was the original design of events.

 

And I found the HoT event chains really did this well, PoF I found it lacking.

 

[Zedek.8932]

Excelsior.

 

No, the game's state right now is fine in that matter.

I always cringe when you are forced in other MMORPGs, let's say Final Fantasy XIV, to be in a group and explore a dungeon.

We are heroes in that game, but when we want to kill an alligator, a spider or a bunch of bees suddenly require me a healer and a tank on my side, and bursting 26 huge fireballs on a reptile just to make it pseudo-epic and force the community aspect. No.

 

I am glad the way GW2 does it right now: My Asuran sniper can pick and win fights - depending on how and who I fight. I can't solo the big dudes as supposed, but the small ones by myself. Heck, I am a pact commander and all sort of stuff, but the first hostile creature requires me to have people around me? Keep that to dungeons and whatnot. I am glad I don't have to ask for people's help or just can join (read as: I follow the masses doing stuff) a random group. My experiences are super bad with video game communities, the few gems do not outshine the big pool of millenial gamers and I often feel like the 27-year old guy amongst a bunch of pre-schoolers. In FF14 you had the French people not talking, in LoL French and Spanish people. Suddenly, they need to go AFK, to bed, mommy calls, they lag because of 1-bar WiFi strength, they have bad mood, are meta obsessed, meter your damage, want you to listen to their awful voices through a bad mic in a voice chat channel, ... the list goes on and on.

 

I turned very grumpy towards video game communities despite being a socially skilled person in real life (due to my profession anyways), and I am happy I can be my own boss here. No one judges my choice of weapons (read the forums about Dual Pistols before the buff or now I am using *GASP* the rifle as main weapon!11!) or that I won't ever get the Griffon (and thus am a bit slower to reach certain places), no one judges my AP (980) or my mastery level (40), which is a pretty low value, but in the end, who the heck cares?!

 

Also, I can be a rifle deadeye without people start to whine immediately and would kick me as fast they could for that (check the boards just for a small glimpse of this problem). I also played enough games where I would sit around for a party finder to pick me, or repeatedly copy/paste "Priest LF group (insert dungeon)". Wasted 70% of my playtime by asking for a group as if I am sitting on a bench at the employment burreau, waiting for a job. No, nope, nein, nada, njet, I am glad that time is over and GW2 is hopefully never forcing me or others to focus more on the community for enjoying the game - or most of it.

 

 

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @BadSanta.6527 said:

> > @Evolute.6239 said:

> > > @BadSanta.6527 said:

> > > In my opinion harder dungeons is the solution

> >

> > People complain about elitism getting 10 people together to do simple raids, and you want them to coordinate for harder group content?

> >

> > I can imagine the forum threads alr

> Easier the raider and harder the avg dungeon (something like arha was)

 

Sounds like fractals without CM.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @Healix.5819 said:

> "Playing alone together" was the original design of events. The fact is, most people play MMOs like single player games. The goal was to naturally draw people together and lead into larger events, all without ever having to actually form a group or even coordinate. All of the original group content was balanced for 3+ average players, though world bosses were intended for 10. Then season 1 happened, which was always active because it was temporary, so everything was zerged. As a result, ArenaNet tried to split people up, which created the multi-group design and HoT followed on. This design however was guaranteed to fail, as it requires a much higher population, which simply isn't sustainable, especially as the difficulty increases. If they took Dragon's Stand for example and designed it to be more like an activity, making each lane an actual team and had you queue into it, it would have been far better off and realistically the only way to make large group events sustainable from a majority perspective.

 

It wasn't season 1 that triggered the change but the addition of loot on champion loot bags and the Queen's Jubilee release (the first one). The early episodes of S1 did not have massive numbers of players on the same event in the open world, because much of their content was instanced. Molten Facility dungeon, Aetherblade Retreat, the candidate trials and so on. It wasn't until Queen's Jubilee and the addition of loot on champions that everything changed.

 

Since then we got huge blobs of players killing these champions as they now dropped unique loot with no effort required. It was at that time that players tried to up-scale events in order for more champions to spawn = more loot. The first season event they added, with the champion loot addition, was the Queen's Gauntlet, content for huge blobs auto-attacking bosses for loot, then we got Scarlet's Invasions and so on. Before Queen's Jubilee the game wasn't about forming huge blobs to get the loot, but rather about finding these events while exploring and then dealing with them, grouping on the fly with others, and so on. Before Queen's Jubilee I would never call Guild Wars 2 a "grind-y" game, but after it, the grind became real.

 

Then we got events that split the players, requiring more coordination, but still in huge blobs.

[Shirlias.8104]

> @zealex.9410 said:

> It feels like gw2 nowdays is much more of a single player than an mmo. I go to maps and never talk to anyone im doimg events and never organise or discuss with others. Im in a guild and barely have guild stuff to do. I extremely rarely make friends, real friends in this game anymore.

>

> Now with wow classic comming back and looking at how that sense of community made that game huge i feel like this need to be a way bigger part of this game than it is.

>

> Pof brought nothing that would help this issue no world bosses or metas that would require communication, no gms or feature that would make me socialise with ppl in my guild or look for one.

>

> The are alot of communities outside of pve even that are slowly dying (pvp/wvw gvgs etc).

> I understand that theres ppl that enjoy playing alone but this is an mmo and im tored of the overwhelming sense of "playing alone together"

>

> I dont have high hopes that the next expac will focus at all on these aspects of the game but idk i thought id share my concerns in case anet listens.

>

> It baffles me how a game with the word "guild" in the title is so antisocial thats all.

 

Well, let's split into different modalities

 

1. **SPvP**

 

* 4 tournaments per day, which require a 5 players party.

* 1 Monthly Tournament which require a 5 players party

* Ranked queue for duo, till a specific league, then soloq. Though it does not push players into premades, before with eternal queue for 5v5 ( or worst, mixed up 5v5 with solo and duo ) was unacceptable. Looking forward to see ranked queue only for soloq.

 

2. **WvW**

 

* squads needed in order to operate at best

* Specific classes and builds, consumables and tactics, uses of vocal chat.

* Many guilds are meant to play WvW

* If you are not in a squad due to rules ( maybe a not needed class ) you can still tag and support them from outside ( playing altogether ).

 

3. **PvE**

 

* Meta events altogether ( Serpent's Ire is something which pof brough, and you see how players can deal with it ).

* HP with a group ( because it seems that even with pof some players are not able to kill a veteran :lol: )

* Fractals ( You can add those with whom you feel at ease playing, and maybe do more content altogether. If you are in a guild it is even better, because the affinity is going to be way higher )

* Raids ( read the part above )

* Currently many players complain about elitism and are not able to complete content as GW2 Fractals or Raids, which are not impossible.

 

I know that **the tools the game provvides** could not be the best we have seen in a mmo, but still the blame should be put on players, which still follow rewards in a game which gives you everything since the beginning ( content made for exotic geared characters ).

 

**Raids** can also be completed with exotic gear.

**Fractals** are something apart due to AR ), and still most players farm instead of having fun or sharing the game.

NB: This is not a fault, because not everybody wants company while they play, and this is probably the reason some of them play gw2 to begin with.

 

That said, i do share your toughts about the game, but i don't think it should be on ANET to push players towards that direction.

It is clear that the players are those who put rewards before the community.

[Torolan.5816]

> @Healix.5819 said:

> "Playing alone together" was the original design of events. The fact is, most people play MMOs like single player games. The goal was to naturally draw people together and lead into larger events, all without ever having to actually form a group or even coordinate. All of the original group content was balanced for 3+ average players, though world bosses were intended for 10. Then season 1 happened, which was always active because it was temporary, so everything was zerged. As a result, ArenaNet tried to split people up, which created the multi-group design and HoT followed on. This design however was guaranteed to fail, as it requires a much higher population, which simply isn't sustainable, especially as the difficulty increases. If they took Dragon's Stand for example and designed it to be more like an activity, making each lane an actual team and had you queue into it, it would have been far better off and realistically the only way to make large group events sustainable from a majority perspective.

 

And I loved GW2 for that first simple approach. I think if Anet had churned out open world content that wasn´t temporary, with really gripping stories, new opponents, guild powered wvw keeps, new races and new classes, it would be in a much better place than it is right now. But the prospect of fighting 6! rather uninterested force of nature dragons is just a kramp in the skritt, and the methodical destruction and twisting of GW1 lore did not help either.

[Kiza.5630]

I find the PoF maps an improvement over HoT as far as "playing together" is concerned. I organize a lot of stuff in the game while I'm online, strictly via lfg or map chat. With HoT maps it was always getting the pre events done and then doing random stuff all over the map if time was left (mostly in case of TD). Maybe HPs people wanted. But it was usually just a train of people following me around plowing through mordrem. Only variation was the path I chose.

 

I find PoF maps are more diverse. If I pick a map we can do one of the larger events, if it has them, do group events that are rarely done (lasso hydra!) or I ask what bounties people want to do. It's much more interaction with the squad than HoT used to be, because you can actively choose what to do rather than following the event chains. I see more talk in the squad chat that is not only me babbling and there are usually the ones who follow us around the whole evening.

 

You can also chose the size of the group you want, except for Serpents' Ire maybe. I can fill it to 10-15 and then remove it from lfg or I can let it open until 50 are in. I like that choice a lot, too.

 

So depending on how you organize things, the new maps have more interaction with other people for me. The whole game is back to the beginning. It depends a lot more on players themselves again than having the game direct the groups.

[Healix.5819]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> It wasn't season 1 that triggered the change but the addition of loot on champion loot bags and the Queen's Jubilee release (the first one). The early episodes of S1 did not have massive numbers of players on the same event in the open world, because much of their content was instanced. Molten Facility dungeon, Aetherblade Retreat, the candidate trials and so on. It wasn't until Queen's Jubilee and the addition of loot on champions that everything changed.

 

The concept of seasons and episodes didn't exist back then; it was all simply the living world. "Season 1" began with the Karka invasion, though technically Halloween was first, since festivals were originally a part of the living world.

 

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> Then we got events that split the players, requiring more coordination, but still in huge blobs.

 

That mindset is also the big problem. People think it's all zerg content and that full maps with commanders are required, when it's actually balanced for a single group per objective and people only need to spread out. Bringing more people is GW2's version of an easy mode however.

[Zin Dau.1749]

Modern MMOs will never have the same tight communities as older generations for these major reasons.

 

1. Lack of server-wide chat. Players are divided by zones, so you can only talk to a fraction of the population. Zone chat is almost quiet.

 

2. Fast action twitch combat means you don't have time for other activities except to focus on the fight. You barely have time to breath when bombarded by too much action, let alone have time for idle chat.

 

3. Focus on events, not camping. Camping is staying in one place and killing the same mobs over and over. That may seem repetitive and single-minded, but it actually facilitates tight bonds with your group and lets you chill. You can go on auto-mode and ease up on the fights, so you can type without risk of dying. You can camp with the same group for hours, chat a lot, and get to know each other better. Unfortunately we can't experience this any more in these theme park MMOs, always blindly chasing quest after menial quest.

 

 

[blambidy.3216]

> @zealex.9410 said:

> > @blambidy.3216 said:

> > As much as I would like to agree, I don’t think ArenaNet needs to add more things that involve more players. I mean pof should have metas yes, but to say that the reason there’s no communication in pof cause of metas is a lie. I’ve seen communication for bounties. Hps. Etc.

> >

> > As much as I would like to back your opinion I’ve noticed it’s the timing of communication, and location. Lower maps will most likely have new people, or will be vacated if not new people. Unless there’s a meta. Same with other maps that don’t Involve expansions. As for expansions most people drive to ab during meta. And silverwastes are always have multiple people. Then your flooded with many.

> >

> > As for communication with your guild. I’d personally ether ask everyday if somebody wants to do something. If not I would personally leave unless there are guild missions you enjoys with them. But if not drop them and find a better one.

> >

> > Personally understanding the game. But only close to two years. The only times it’s a lot of social is ether during raiding, or fractals. Then it’s guilds. Other then that it’s not much talk unless you hit it off with someone you randomly find. But usually if you have problems like that always go for lfg for grouping. Those are usually best places.

> >

> > I honestly don’t blame ArenaNet for the miss communication. I will say it’s the players.

>

> This isnt specifically about metas. The game does nothing to make you go out of your way to talk to others, commit to something that is happening, look for ppl for something, share your opinion on a mater or some happening in game. Litterally none of those exists. And dont tell me they shouldt force ppl to get to socialise because thats what made this game a single player in the first place.

>

> Ime doing metas is what got me to meet alot of ppl back when evebts were still new and "hard" and i was required to go out of my way and ask for advice or help.

>

> Dont put the blame on the players they found that you can go throu the whole game and into endgame and never talk to anyone. Do you think they would go out of their way to do so?

>

> Its only the fault of anet for ingoring core pillars of the mmos genre like social interaction and community

 

There aren’t things that make players want to communicate? Half of hot hps need more than one player to take down the boss. Auric basin meta if you don’t communicate you fail. Specially if no players. Fractals when your in t1 as first starting we communicate. Raids you communicate all the time. I’m sorry but each thing ArenaNet created in gw2 there’s always a reason to communicate. As much as I would say to add things. Mostly it’s people not ArenaNet.

 

Dungeons you don’t communicate? Story you don’t? How about finding loot boxes for achievements? As much as ArenaNet already gave a lot. There’s really not much else they can give. There’s already enough places. Your just in the wrong spot and time.

 

[Ardid.7203]

The content is there. It could be more, more meta for PoF, more Silverwastes style maps for everyone, but even without that, the content to do things with other people is there. IMO Shirlias got the nail in the correct place: the tools for socialization are the ones lacking. Not "technically", but in the motivational side.

 

There is no atractive in talking to other people. You can do it, sometimes you have to. But it is not something you want to. The game doesn't motivate you that way.

There is no personalization on the tools. Your toons look awesome, you have great equipment and fun toys... but your profile, your presence as a player is sooo boring.

Guild tools are even worse: they are hard to use, expensive and discouraging. And they are not adding more or polishing the ones that already exist. They just want guilds to wilt and die.

 

Also, there is no content SPECIFICALLY made for boosting socialization. As some other players posted in a thread about immersion, there aren't taverns or places were to RP or even were to boast your fashion wars prowess, were to simply talk and feel welcome (maybe even rewarded) for doing so.

 

So I concur with the OP: GW2 desperately needs to focus more on the community aspect, as a central area to work, not as a lateral subproduct.