About the new fractal

[Rennie.6750]

> @zealex.9410 said:

> > @Rennie.6750 said:

> > > @Turin.6921 said:

> > > What are you expecting? To finish a new T4 fractal, in one go, the first time without a single wipe and still get hard content rewards. Give it a least a few tries and a bit of time for the pugs to get the mechanics and trust me it will become a breeze. Its just about knowing the boss.

> >

> > For a fractal in the 80s range? Absolutely. It's in the solid ocean range lol. I don't expect all fractals to be identical, however I do expect consistency in the pacing of non raid-like fractals bosses, if that's what it's supposed to be. I'm not saying it's bad or anything, it just doesn't belong to the regular pool as the pacing does make it yet another raid fractal. It shouldn't be 87. It should be 101. I do not care if it's difficult or not, it just needs to be rewarded appropriately or nerfed to match other 80s fractals.

> >

> > At this point i'm 100% convinced that nobody understands that this is a rewards/ranking issue because it's the internet and nobody reads anything beyond the first sentence. Anyone parroting "but just play lower tiers" has serious reading comprehension issues. If it stays at that difficulty/pacing level it needs to be ranked higher with other fractals with chaotic boss fights. Or nerfed to be slower. Either way, I don't mind.

> >

>

> Implying solid ocean wont change and become harder. Lol poor, naive children.

 

Well Mai Trin's rework made it easier as long as you understand the mechanics and follow the rules, which is very much in line with what other fractals offered so far, so there's hope. :)

[Cerioth.7062]

Are you for real? I think comparing non-CM fractals to raid encounters is bit of a stretch. First off, none of them require communication or organization whatsoever. You dont need a specific comp, healers or any of that for any of the non-CM fractals. Secondly, there are no enrage timers. Thirdly, one player failing one mechanic does not result in entire party wipe.

 

Not to mention that CC/AOE spam is certainly not typical to raids. I wouldnt compare these new fractal mechanics to raid mechanics which are much more complex than that.

[Benjamin Arnold.3457]

> @Hydroclasm.8572 said:

> I finished the fractal on T4 today. No huge complaints about the first 90% of it. We wiped maybe half a dozen times on the last boss, one of which was due to her bugging out at 5/6% and re-entering the breakbar phase over and over. The fight was interesting, and I'm sure it'll get a little easier with more experience, but I don't think I like the majority of the difficulty on the fight coming from AoEs covering half the room all the time.

 

Can you elaborate on this bug? She's supposed to re-enter her breakbar if you fail to kill the Balthazar priestess. Im assuming the priestess died but amala didn't care?

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

> @Azoqu.8917 said:

> You do know we're approaching the point where we have 25 different fractals. Once we get there, the numbers are just a "this is a relative order of difficulty." The true scaling is T1 -> T2 -> T3 -> T4. Comparing Twilight Oasis to Shattered Observatory or Nightmare or even Jade serves no purpose. The only question that should be asked difficulty wise is "Is the T4 version harder than the T3 version?" because if the answer is yes then it is fine.

>

> Protip: T4s are supposed to be hard, if you want the rewards do the work, otherwise there are three other tiers for you.

 

Not exactly this isn't how it works completely it hasn't anything to with this fractal(or better I can't say anything about it) but the scaling should be also so that e.g 25 is less difficult then 30 and there is the problem Nightmare would be like this just 5 more difficult level higher then it is, Observatory after running all difficulty levels I would say at least 15 level higher before you get a similar difficult level.

 

You can also reverse the question is 77(or something like this) more difficult then 75?

 

And I also must protest finding group for Observatory in the LFG is still hard and even less are even able to do it .

[Hydroclasm.8572]

> @"Benjamin Arnold.3457" said:

> > @Hydroclasm.8572 said:

> > I finished the fractal on T4 today. No huge complaints about the first 90% of it. We wiped maybe half a dozen times on the last boss, one of which was due to her bugging out at 5/6% and re-entering the breakbar phase over and over. The fight was interesting, and I'm sure it'll get a little easier with more experience, but I don't think I like the majority of the difficulty on the fight coming from AoEs covering half the room all the time.

>

> Can you elaborate on this bug? She's supposed to re-enter her breakbar if you fail to kill the Balthazar priestess. Im assuming the priestess died but amala didn't care?

 

Yeah I'm pretty sure that we killed the Balth priestess, although I think the timer ended up being pretty close. When we dropped back down off the ledge after killing the Balth priestess Amala was at 6% and when we had damaged her a bit back down to 5% she did the breakbar phase again, dropped the wall to the (empty except for friendly npcs for the end scene) Balthazar ledge, and I think she healed back to 6%. She seemed like she would keep doing this indefinitely, although we /gg ed after the second or third breakbar.

[zealex.9410]

> @Rennie.6750 said:

> > @zealex.9410 said:

> > > @Rennie.6750 said:

> > > > @Turin.6921 said:

> > > > What are you expecting? To finish a new T4 fractal, in one go, the first time without a single wipe and still get hard content rewards. Give it a least a few tries and a bit of time for the pugs to get the mechanics and trust me it will become a breeze. Its just about knowing the boss.

> > >

> > > For a fractal in the 80s range? Absolutely. It's in the solid ocean range lol. I don't expect all fractals to be identical, however I do expect consistency in the pacing of non raid-like fractals bosses, if that's what it's supposed to be. I'm not saying it's bad or anything, it just doesn't belong to the regular pool as the pacing does make it yet another raid fractal. It shouldn't be 87. It should be 101. I do not care if it's difficult or not, it just needs to be rewarded appropriately or nerfed to match other 80s fractals.

> > >

> > > At this point i'm 100% convinced that nobody understands that this is a rewards/ranking issue because it's the internet and nobody reads anything beyond the first sentence. Anyone parroting "but just play lower tiers" has serious reading comprehension issues. If it stays at that difficulty/pacing level it needs to be ranked higher with other fractals with chaotic boss fights. Or nerfed to be slower. Either way, I don't mind.

> > >

> >

> > Implying solid ocean wont change and become harder. Lol poor, naive children.

>

> Well Mai Trin's rework made it easier as long as you understand the mechanics and follow the rules, which is very much in line with what other fractals offered so far, so there's hope. :)

 

I personally hope it becomes just harder. It baffles me how this massive monster just stands there and ocaisionally hits you with its wet noodles.

[zealex.9410]

> @Hydroclasm.8572 said:

> I finished the fractal on T4 today. No huge complaints about the first 90% of it. We wiped maybe half a dozen times on the last boss, one of which was due to her bugging out at 5/6% and re-entering the breakbar phase over and over. The fight was interesting, and I'm sure it'll get a little easier with more experience, but I don't think I like the majority of the difficulty on the fight coming from AoEs covering half the room all the time.

 

Ok and what would you have instead of aoes?

[Hydroclasm.8572]

> @zealex.9410 said:

> > @Hydroclasm.8572 said:

> > I finished the fractal on T4 today. No huge complaints about the first 90% of it. We wiped maybe half a dozen times on the last boss, one of which was due to her bugging out at 5/6% and re-entering the breakbar phase over and over. The fight was interesting, and I'm sure it'll get a little easier with more experience, but I don't think I like the majority of the difficulty on the fight coming from AoEs covering half the room all the time.

>

> Ok and what would you have instead of aoes?

 

To clarify my previous post, I'm okay with bosses having a few AoEs. I'm also okay with a 'survival' phase that has a lot of AoEs with minimal other objectives/distractions (like pre-patch Mai Trin or the Molten Weapons facility). What I disliked was the many AoEs going on, quite frequently, while I'm trying to damage a boss.

 

For alternatives? I like most of the other fractals. Heavy hitting strikes (as long they have an appropriate telegraph), kiting bosses through parts of the arena to damage them or make them vulnerable, etc.

 

I'm just spitballing, but for Amala maybe some of the AoE could be toned down and the boss buffed to compensate.

-In the Lyssa phase, maybe she could get some Mesmer abilities. Shatter the clones sometimes to gain distortion or deal damage, put feedback bubbles around players at range, use the focus pull.

-Melandru, make the earth elemental more interesting/dangerous, perhaps with a longer fixation for kiting it around.

-Dwayna, give her some defensive abilities (protection, regen, blocks) with periodic hard-hitting retaliation.

-Grenth, give her more necro minions and a death shroud mechanic that depletes when the minions die. Or make the minions explode on death, and have the shroud deplete when they die close enough to her.

-Balthazar, give her a fire aura and/or make the ground hot like in the volcano fractal. Alternatively, give her some kind of adrenaline-like mechanic that increases when she's hit and decreases over time. The adrenaline could be used to power a super attack or just make her hit harder with more adrenaline.

 

Again, I don't know how practical any of those would be to implement. My point is that out of all the ways to make a boss difficult, constant carpet-bomb AoEs is low on my personal list of what I enjoy.

[Zunki.3916]

What you must consider is the following:

There is a wide variety of fractals out there. From Trash only with little to no bosses, up to boss only, some have raidlike mechanics as observatory, there are even t4 where you almost fall asleep, and now there is now ONE with extreme visual clutter and insane aoe, where you have to filer out the non-dangerous aoe from the deadly one.

 

This is okay, this is variety. Not everyone has the same taste. I like how Anet did this and there can be more, but there also will be other stuff. Don't think you HAVE TO do every daily every day if you don't like them. I personally only do the ones I like. And that's okay. Always remember: The one frac you hate the most is probably the one another guy loves the most ;)

[Hydroclasm.8572]

> @Zunki.3916 said:

> What you must consider is the following:

> There is a wide variety of fractals out there. From Trash only with little to no bosses, up to boss only, some have raidlike mechanics as observatory, there are even t4 where you almost fall asleep, and now there is now ONE with extreme visual clutter and insane aoe, where you have to filer out the non-dangerous aoe from the deadly one.

>

> This is okay, this is variety. Not everyone has the same taste. I like how Anet did this and there can be more, but there also will be other stuff. Don't think you HAVE TO do every daily every day if you don't like them. I personally only do the ones I like. And that's okay. Always remember: The one frac you hate the most is probably the one another guy loves the most ;)

 

Sure, that's fair - I'm just describing what I thought of the fractal and why. If Anet wants to tone down any of the AoE I'd be stoked, if they don't that's their call too.

[Zunki.3916]

> @"Benjamin Arnold.3457" said:

> > @Hydroclasm.8572 said:

> > I finished the fractal on T4 today. No huge complaints about the first 90% of it. We wiped maybe half a dozen times on the last boss, one of which was due to her bugging out at 5/6% and re-entering the breakbar phase over and over. The fight was interesting, and I'm sure it'll get a little easier with more experience, but I don't think I like the majority of the difficulty on the fight coming from AoEs covering half the room all the time.

>

> Can you elaborate on this bug? She's supposed to re-enter her breakbar if you fail to kill the Balthazar priestess. Im assuming the priestess died but amala didn't care?

 

Had this bug too. She started to reenter the breakbar phase and I actually think she started to summon different priests. This was also at around 6%, but I don't know if she healed up to 6% each time. It felt like it, but I didn't know it's a bug, I was actually thinking the fight just wants to get even more ridiculous and fun by having a breakbar phase every 2% below 10% and repeating all the priests again. I was so shocked when this happened and felt like "you bastards!" *g*

[Carcharoth Lucian.1378]

> @Hydroclasm.8572 said:

> > @"Benjamin Arnold.3457" said:

> > > @Hydroclasm.8572 said:

> > > I finished the fractal on T4 today. No huge complaints about the first 90% of it. We wiped maybe half a dozen times on the last boss, one of which was due to her bugging out at 5/6% and re-entering the breakbar phase over and over. The fight was interesting, and I'm sure it'll get a little easier with more experience, but I don't think I like the majority of the difficulty on the fight coming from AoEs covering half the room all the time.

> >

> > Can you elaborate on this bug? She's supposed to re-enter her breakbar if you fail to kill the Balthazar priestess. Im assuming the priestess died but amala didn't care?

>

> Yeah I'm pretty sure that we killed the Balth priestess, although I think the timer ended up being pretty close. When we dropped back down off the ledge after killing the Balth priestess Amala was at 6% and when we had damaged her a bit back down to 5% she did the breakbar phase again, dropped the wall to the (empty except for friendly npcs for the end scene) Balthazar ledge, and I think she healed back to 6%. She seemed like she would keep doing this indefinitely, although we /gg ed after the second or third breakbar.

 

We experienced the same bug yesterday. I think we killed the Balthazar priestess just at the end of the timer (0s), then Amala returned at 6% and like @Hydroclasm.8572 said the Balthazar priestess never reappeared after the cc (5%). So we /gg to restart all the boss fight :(

[Benjamin Arnold.3457]

> @"Carcharoth Lucian.1378" said:

> > @Hydroclasm.8572 said:

> > > @"Benjamin Arnold.3457" said:

> > > > @Hydroclasm.8572 said:

> > > > I finished the fractal on T4 today. No huge complaints about the first 90% of it. We wiped maybe half a dozen times on the last boss, one of which was due to her bugging out at 5/6% and re-entering the breakbar phase over and over. The fight was interesting, and I'm sure it'll get a little easier with more experience, but I don't think I like the majority of the difficulty on the fight coming from AoEs covering half the room all the time.

> > >

> > > Can you elaborate on this bug? She's supposed to re-enter her breakbar if you fail to kill the Balthazar priestess. Im assuming the priestess died but amala didn't care?

> >

> > Yeah I'm pretty sure that we killed the Balth priestess, although I think the timer ended up being pretty close. When we dropped back down off the ledge after killing the Balth priestess Amala was at 6% and when we had damaged her a bit back down to 5% she did the breakbar phase again, dropped the wall to the (empty except for friendly npcs for the end scene) Balthazar ledge, and I think she healed back to 6%. She seemed like she would keep doing this indefinitely, although we /gg ed after the second or third breakbar.

>

> We experienced the same bug yesterday. I think we killed the Balthazar priestess just at the end of the timer (0s), then Amala returned at 6% and like @Hydroclasm.8572 said the Balthazar priestess never reappeared after the cc (5%). So we /gg to restart all the boss fight :(

 

OK Thanks guys! I'll try to get a fix in for the wintersday patch.

[Payne.1250]

Fractals are getting longer and longer ... harder and harder ... drifting away further from their initial goal

This is another daily T4 that im going to ignore, but if people are enjoying those kind of fractals, im happy for them, this is just not my case

 

However, if i remember correctly, we got the promise 3 months ago that the next fractal were supposed to be more fun or less "raid-style" .... a forgotten promise

 

[zealex.9410]

But this compliments the combat system gw2 has and besides half the aoes hit like a wet noodle and cc you there are very few and specific aoes that are build to fuck you up.

[zealex.9410]

> @Payne.1250 said:

> Fractals are getting longer and longer ... harder and harder ... drifting away further from their initial goal

> This is another daily T4 that im going to ignore, but if people are enjoying those kind of fractals, im happy for them, this is just not my case

>

> However, if i remember correctly, we got the promise 3 months ago that the next fractal were supposed to be more fun or less "raid-style" .... a forgotten promise

>

 

The initial goal was? Other than them being relatively short?

[CptAurellian.9537]

The new fractal did not feel substantially longer than, say, Cliffside. Finding all the downed villagers took us some time, but that's done once and never again. I'm certain that, with some practice, this fractal will be a very normal one with regard to its length.

[Alga.6498]

I loved the new fractal, Twilight Oasis.

Really interesting concept as you are a traitor from the Sunspears, got us a nice flashback/backstory of what happened to the Sunspears along with the Pristess Amala, which I really enjoyed they gave her a nice mini-story with her being their commander and specially a Dervish, using the Gods stances.

 

Love the design! Feels similar to the Urban Battleground, which I also enjoyed alot but such sad endings and events. :cry:

[Jahroots.6791]

> @Rennie.6750 said:

 

> Overall, I didn't have fun at all, the visual clutter combined with the mental health pool of the boss were very frustrating and I don't want to play the game more today.

 

Yep, I feel ya on this. Pretty much everything past the Swamp fractal update has felt like a frantic mess, each one worse than the last. I don't even look forward to fractal updates anymore. I mean, I _can_ handle most fractals, but I don't particularly enjoy them. I miss the satisfaction of a good, clean run that dungeons gave.

 

Clearly there's people who have the skills, reflexes and awareness to have fun in this kind of content but unfortunately I'm not one of 'em. P

 

 

 

 

[Benjamin Arnold.3457]

Wonderful feedback! It's good to hear people's different experiences. I'm gonna paste something I wrote on reddit to give some context behind Amalas design:

 

"Amala was special in that the aesthetic we wanted for her was to be a crazy powerful dervish with godlike powers, and we wanted her to feel fast, not sluggish. For this reason we spent a lot of time making sure her attacks all felt epic. Her mechanics themselves are very simple, but her skillset is not. She's got the most skills built for any boss in all of gw2 by a long shot, and that's specifically because of the aesthetic we wanted for her. Future bosses will have different aesthetics, and so will play different and will have different skills (read, fewer)

 

Some of the orange effects can get lost when player skills are overlapping, especially with the lighting, so we will make it more of a focus that telegraphs are readable on boss platforms.

 

Tldr; This isn't AoE spam for the sake of AoE spam, this is an attempt at creating the most powerful looking dervish of all time."

 

Basically, no every fractal is not going to go in this direction. We built Amala this way for this specific reason. In my opinion, though she is crazy the first few times you fight her, Amala isn't too difficult to learn, though of course that is subjective.

 

People are mentioning length, keep in mind we built in purposeful trash skips to reward things such as stealth or using the SAS, that I am confident will bring people's average playtime down to our goal as they get used to the fractal.

[FitzChevalerie.1035]

It's challenging right now because of its novelty and people don't know how to fight it, but it's nowhere near raid material. Hardest phase imo is grenth. not that I die to it, but my parties always seem to get downed there and it's almost impossible to res in middle of it.

 

Look if you think t4 oasis is too hard, go do t3 or t2. don't try to nerf t4 because you can't do it.

I swear everytime something isnt just a auto attack fest some people complain because they need an easy mode.

 

LF intro mission easy mode.

[zealex.9410]

> @FitzChevalerie.1035 said:

> It's challenging right now because of its novelty and people don't know how to fight it, but it's nowhere near raid material. Hardest phase imo is grenth. not that I die to it, but my parties always seem to get downed there and it's almost impossible to res in middle of it.

>

> Look if you think t4 oasis is too hard, go do t3 or t2. don't try to nerf t4 because you can't do it.

> I swear everytime something isnt just a auto attack fest some people complain because they need an easy mode.

>

> LF intro mission easy mode.

 

And the worst thing is grenth isnt even the hardest phase. You can litterally colapse on her after her spin to win and skip every other attack she has.

[zealex.9410]

> @"Benjamin Arnold.3457" said:

> Wonderful feedback! It's good to hear people's different experiences. I'm gonna paste something I wrote on reddit to give some context behind Amalas design:

>

> "Amala was special in that the aesthetic we wanted for her was to be a crazy powerful dervish with godlike powers, and we wanted her to feel fast, not sluggish. For this reason we spent a lot of time making sure her attacks all felt epic. Her mechanics themselves are very simple, but her skillset is not. She's got the most skills built for any boss in all of gw2 by a long shot, and that's specifically because of the aesthetic we wanted for her. Future bosses will have different aesthetics, and so will play different and will have different skills (read, fewer)

>

> Some of the orange effects can get lost when player skills are overlapping, especially with the lighting, so we will make it more of a focus that telegraphs are readable on boss platforms.

>

> Tldr; This isn't AoE spam for the sake of AoE spam, this is an attempt at creating the most powerful looking dervish of all time."

>

> Basically, no every fractal is not going to go in this direction. We built Amala this way for this specific reason. In my opinion, though she is crazy the first few times you fight her, Amala isn't too difficult to learn, though of course that is subjective.

>

> People are mentioning length, keep in mind we built in purposeful trash skips to reward things such as stealth or using the SAS, that I am confident will bring people's average playtime down to our goal as they get used to the fractal.

 

This just makes me wish there was a cm for her. Meh.

[Bugabuga.9721]

> @"Benjamin Arnold.3457" said:

 

> Basically, no every fractal is not going to go in this direction. We built Amala this way for this specific reason. In my opinion, though she is crazy the first few times you fight her, Amala isn't too difficult to learn, though of course that is subjective.

>

> People are mentioning length, keep in mind we built in purposeful trash skips to reward things such as stealth or using the SAS, that I am confident will bring people's average playtime down to our goal as they get used to the fractal.

 

But we _are_ getting in this direction. Everything is getting longer. Fractal daily used to be 30 minutes for everything. Now we're back to case of "everyone but established groups ignore this particular combo of dailies cause it takes hour plus". I'd be okay if the whole tier was re-configured when this is daily. "Daily T4 is either Oasis + short fractal, or this combo of 3 normal fractals"

 

And this definitely feels like it's supposed to be a raid but _even longer_ and with bonus trash-mobs but minus the enrage timer. And minus any special raid-level rewards. Why add "skippable" trash mobs? So group would have to bring a daredevil and he/she will get to use shadow refuge? Required composition should also be part of the raid. Was that the logic behind this? Why not just make the final bosses as the actual fractal. And if there is some story-telling reason for prologue, make a story mode that includes additional stages.

 

Final boss doesn't feel "epic". It feels confusing, frustrating and spammy due to all the aoes and aggroes and telegraphs galore. Plus the new "avengers" are even bigger kick in the behind. You have to kill all of them, you can't rally off of them. Why? Regular avengers weren't pain enough?

 

The whole thing is just frustrating and makes me want to skip fractals when "new and improved" are on the daily list.

[Lipzipper.3160]

> @"Benjamin Arnold.3457" said:

> Wonderful feedback! It's good to hear people's different experiences. I'm gonna paste something I wrote on reddit to give some context behind Amalas design:

>

> "Amala was special in that the aesthetic we wanted for her was to be a crazy powerful dervish with godlike powers, and we wanted her to feel fast, not sluggish. For this reason we spent a lot of time making sure her attacks all felt epic. Her mechanics themselves are very simple, but her skillset is not. She's got the most skills built for any boss in all of gw2 by a long shot, and that's specifically because of the aesthetic we wanted for her. Future bosses will have different aesthetics, and so will play different and will have different skills (read, fewer)

>

> Some of the orange effects can get lost when player skills are overlapping, especially with the lighting, so we will make it more of a focus that telegraphs are readable on boss platforms.

>

> Tldr; This isn't AoE spam for the sake of AoE spam, this is an attempt at creating the most powerful looking dervish of all time."

>

> Basically, no every fractal is not going to go in this direction. We built Amala this way for this specific reason. In my opinion, though she is crazy the first few times you fight her, Amala isn't too difficult to learn, though of course that is subjective.

>

> People are mentioning length, keep in mind we built in purposeful trash skips to reward things such as stealth or using the SAS, that I am confident will bring people's average playtime down to our goal as they get used to the fractal.

 

I ventured into this fractal today, I did not get a kill. I LOVE this boss, this is the best 5 man content this game has ever had imo. It wasnt too short and felt engaging. The only reason we did not get the kill is because my team seemed a little oblivious on CCing.. But anyhow. I felt a little sad when i read that it is designed to be stealth skipped. This will obviously be the meta after while, and not skipping will not be a reasonable option to suggest anymore (I hope it wont come to this, I'd rather have no mobs than being able to skip them, whats the point if ur not gonna fight them, which is the fun part). I REALLY love this fractal, because it feels like what I consider in the genre as a "dungeon/instance" whatever (5man group). (Not too short, has engaging story, and has a SOLID and persistent encounter) I have yet to see the loot-table, but i suspect it is the usual fractal stuff.

 

Please make as much TERIFFIC content as this as possible, it truly adds something for people like me, who find most things outside raids not challenging enough (but dont have the time to raid with a schedule). Good Job! I salute you, and wish you and the whole team well.