TexZero.7910 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 > @IndigoSundown.5419 said: > > @TexZero.7910 said: > > > @Astralporing.1957 said: > > > You just happen to be rewarded because the reward is in the content that _you_ like. > > You just happen to be missing the entire point. > > > > People complain about the community aspects of raiding but refuse to find the community of people who are similar to them. > > Your work is what you make of it is very apt for an analogy in this regard. If i choose to work sanitation of course im gonna get dirty, so instead of working there i can find a nice office space in working IT instead with people who want to be there and my everyday QoL goes up significantly. > > > > Let's leave off the real world analogies. They are almost never applied properly. Most sanitation workers don't have the qualifications to work IT, so the only job they might get in that environment is working for the janitorial contractor, still dealing with dirt. Implying they can't be taught and again missing the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoSundown.5419 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 > @TexZero.7910 said: > > @IndigoSundown.5419 said: > > > @TexZero.7910 said: > > > > @Astralporing.1957 said: > > > > You just happen to be rewarded because the reward is in the content that _you_ like. > > > You just happen to be missing the entire point. > > > > > > People complain about the community aspects of raiding but refuse to find the community of people who are similar to them. > > > Your work is what you make of it is very apt for an analogy in this regard. If i choose to work sanitation of course im gonna get dirty, so instead of working there i can find a nice office space in working IT instead with people who want to be there and my everyday QoL goes up significantly. > > > > > > > Let's leave off the real world analogies. They are almost never applied properly. Most sanitation workers don't have the qualifications to work IT, so the only job they might get in that environment is working for the janitorial contractor, still dealing with dirt. > > Implying they can't be taught and again missing the point. Nope. No IT firm is going to hire a garbage collector and teach him how to do IT work on the job. Bad analogy is bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 > @IndigoSundown.5419 said: > > @TexZero.7910 said: > > > @IndigoSundown.5419 said: > > > > @TexZero.7910 said: > > > > > @Astralporing.1957 said: > > > > > You just happen to be rewarded because the reward is in the content that _you_ like. > > > > You just happen to be missing the entire point. > > > > > > > > People complain about the community aspects of raiding but refuse to find the community of people who are similar to them. > > > > Your work is what you make of it is very apt for an analogy in this regard. If i choose to work sanitation of course im gonna get dirty, so instead of working there i can find a nice office space in working IT instead with people who want to be there and my everyday QoL goes up significantly. > > > > > > > > > > Let's leave off the real world analogies. They are almost never applied properly. Most sanitation workers don't have the qualifications to work IT, so the only job they might get in that environment is working for the janitorial contractor, still dealing with dirt. > > > > Implying they can't be taught and again missing the point. > > Nope. No IT firm is going to hire a garbage collector and teach him how to do IT work on the job. Bad analogy is bad. Ah yes, because somehow the only place one can learn is on the job. That's exactly what all those schools must be doing wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lina.1327 Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 > @DanAlcedo.3281 said: > > @Ashantara.8731 said: > > Why would anyone "explode" over this? HoT legendaries are also only accessible to HoT owners, so there is nothing wrong with PoF legendaries to be accessible only to people who have invested money to buy this expansion. > > Kill 10(!) Raid Bosses to unlock is the problem here. > > Raiders : where do all the noobs come from? > Noobs : we want the ring > Raiders : you dont care about the game mode right? > Noob : no and why should i? > Raiders : Thx anet. > > Oh! Can we get a WvW Leg. Trinket thats need hours and hours of grind? Me as a WvW Player would LOOOOOVE even more pip farmer. As a “noob” to raiding, raiders are why I avoid raiding. I don’t want to be hated for trying. It’s a genuinely stressful experience if people have been doing it for a while, and new people can’t join in because they aren’t good enough or don’t understand it. Where do you expect us to start if we don’t get let in at all? We do want legendary stuff, but we also want to enjoy the raiding. That’s why this is so hard for me to get into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intox.6347 Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 > @"Blockhead Magee.3092" said: > Anet, implement the 'easy' button so the folks who want things without working for them can get their special little toy. Nobody wants easy button.... but how good sounds for raider... if they said .. one ring from raid... second ring from wvw (2000 rank to open) and then collection like get 200 sm, 50k players killed. Nobody wants easy way.... but they want their option how to do it with gamemode they play, and what most ppl experienced ? Pug raiders are most toxic ppl in gw2. If they make 2 lege rings hard but obtainable like aurora.... and then 1 special raid ring.. ok let them have their special skin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dethh.4620 Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 > @PopeUrban.2578 said: > Raids have raid-appropriate rewards. Legendary items are not more powerful than ascended. I'm not sure what the problem is here. This. People saying raids already have enough rewards, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. In fact, raid rewards need a bit more of a boost imo. If you agree raids are in fact the most challenging content in the game then the rewards should match that. There's nothing wrong with locking a legendary item behind a raid kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xillllix.3485 Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 They really need difficulty settings for raids with scalable rewards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoSundown.5419 Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 > @Dethh.4620 said: > > @PopeUrban.2578 said: > > Raids have raid-appropriate rewards. Legendary items are not more powerful than ascended. I'm not sure what the problem is here. > > This. People saying raids already have enough rewards, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. In fact, raid rewards need a bit more of a boost imo. If you agree raids are in fact the most challenging content in the game then the rewards should match that. There's nothing wrong with locking a legendary item behind a raid kill. What if I don't agree that raids are the most challenging content in the game? Do I then get to suggest that all the best rewards should be exclusive to ranked PvP, and nothing else matters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulf.3098 Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 > @IndigoSundown.5419 said: > What if I don't agree that raids are the most challenging content in the game? Do I then get to suggest that all the best rewards should be exclusive to ranked PvP, and nothing else matters? I believe the point was if you put the time and effort into the challenging end game content like Raids, PvP, WvW, and Fractals you should be rewarded appropriately. When PvP gets their legendary trinket in the next coming months be prepared to see this same post again with "Why should I do X to get Y?" or "Why is X locked behind Y?". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 > @Taygus.4571 said: > > @Fremtid.3528 said: > > > @Taygus.4571 said: > > > > @Fremtid.3528 said: > > > > > @Taygus.4571 said: > > > > > I don't do raids. > > > > > > > > > > I don't see the problem of offering a legendary ring. It's not like you need it for pve. And ascended trinkets are easy enough to get. > > > > > > > > > This is literally besides the point. Some people like having legendaries because it means every time they release new stats, all they have to do is change the legendary gear and don't have to mystic forge gear a thousand times until you find a build for you. Especially with hardened leather being at the high price it is now. Which is why when originally legendary armor was locked behind only raids SO MANY PEOPLE WERE PISSED. And now with the upcoming release of a set of legendary trinkets and rings etc people are like "cool, i won't have to grind whatever current currency to get trinkets, just stat swap." But anet's like "hold up a sec, lol, you raid bro?" > > > > > > > > Not only that, the creation of legendaries gives people long to semi-long term goals to keep them logging in every day. And when you lock the only one of it's slot behind raids after already giving raids the only legendary armor with effects. I'm sorry it's kitten. I already have more than enough ascended trinkets! You're right they ARE easy to get. Unfortunately, I wanted to build the legendary ring so that if i needed to tweak my build for wvw I wouldn't have to mindlessly farm living world currency for a week or more to get it. I'd rather put my hard work into an investment not throw away trash that I'm going to have to toss next stat change. Next elite spec. Next balance patch. > > > > > > > > And as I've said before, with them releasing the ring like this. It now means I have nothing to do until Christmas. Which is a problem for me and no incentive to log in. And you might be like whatever to that but I'm industrious and I've done a lot of stuff in this game that other people haven't. I'm an ach hunter. GH builder. I've built and decorated a private gh. I've built 17 legendaries. Despite my heavy PVE leanings I'm almost rank 900 in wvw. I've accomplished a lot in the three years i've been playing this game. And if I tell you *I* have nothing to do. You can bet people with a lot less drive are bored as well. > > > > > > > > > > > Guess you better find a raid guild ;) > > > > > > In most cases..its cheaper to have a separate character with the different ascended stats that you want theb it is to go through the process of legendary anyway. > > > > > > And you still would have to change sigils. > > > > > > And you sound like you spen far too many hours in this game. Have a kit kat. > > > > > > > > > I'm not bored.... And I have like no real goals lol. But I also don't treat the game like a full time job. > > > > tfw someone off topic tells you to eat chocolate, you don't even like chocolate and its not even high quality chocolate they're offering you. /coolstorybro > > I have absolutely no idea what you're on about. You suggested that he eat a kit kat. He explained that he does not like chocolate, let alone low quality chocolate, such as is used in kit kat bars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 > @Dethh.4620 said: > > @PopeUrban.2578 said: > > Raids have raid-appropriate rewards. Legendary items are not more powerful than ascended. I'm not sure what the problem is here. > > This. People saying raids already have enough rewards, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. In fact, raid rewards need a bit more of a boost imo. If you agree raids are in fact the most challenging content in the game then the rewards should match that. There's nothing wrong with locking a legendary item behind a raid kill. Raids are not, in fact, the most challenging content in the game though. Multiple raiders, in this thread alone, have claimed that raids are not difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Haired Savage.5430 Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 > @Vulf.3098 said: > > @Torolan.5816 said: > > Of course raids can have valuable items. Give them 10 gold per run, an exklusive skin and a title, I don´t mind. > > People will still come to the forums to whine, cry and moan about that. There is no winning here. > Every time there is a Legendary added to a specific game mode people complain because they do not want to do the content. It is really sad to be honest. > If we can't cry here where can we? Tom Hanks already told us that baseball isn't the place to do that either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torolan.5816 Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 > @Dethh.4620 said: > > @PopeUrban.2578 said: > > Raids have raid-appropriate rewards. Legendary items are not more powerful than ascended. I'm not sure what the problem is here. > > This. People saying raids already have enough rewards, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. In fact, raid rewards need a bit more of a boost imo. If you agree raids are in fact the most challenging content in the game then the rewards should match that. There's nothing wrong with locking a legendary item behind a raid kill. I tell you how I personally went through the legendary armor affair years ago: I always found raiding boring and inappropriate for a game like GW2, so I was really happy I had not to deal with it here. It were not the toxic people or the hard content, but basically I think that the pure concept of raids sucks. It radically stands out against all the other game modes as you can do all other game modes in the time you want and with the effort you want and are still rewarded, big or small depending on your effort. And no, I was not interested in easy mode raids, I wanted no raids at all. The someone at Anet thought it was a good idea to toss that principle overboard. So far so good, you can still ignore it if there are only skins, pets or gold in for the raiders. The bottom line for me personally was the debatte wheter the legendary armor is needed, qol or whatever(please spare me to argue about that again) and how that made me feel like a second class citizen in the game I loved and exclusively played up until them. Call me a special snowflake or whatever you want, but I am pretty sure that many people felt like me so the other snowflakes and me were a gust of really cold wind blowing into the face of Anet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bish.8627 Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 We had a poll on here recently. Ended up like 5% of players who voted actually raid. This is why exclusives locked away behind raids is unacceptable. They didn't learn when fractals came out. This game used to be about doing what you want at your own pace and still having access to all gear. Now we have sets locked behind expansions, infusions locked on ascended gear that takes too much money or too much time to make. Now legendary armour and rings that will be locked behind raids. Even if they did introduce this to WvW or open PVE it would be locked behind such a massive gate it would be pointless (rank 1500 wvw anyone?) Not to mention I have never had any intention to raid or fractal as the community is so elitist and toxic. Not all, there are some lovely players there, but the majority. Dungeons were bad enough, but at least a few were kind enough to teach you how do speed run, instead of assuming everyone magically knows how and if they don't have the same learned knowledge as them, they are noobs. ALL game modes should get access to new tiers and stats at the same time. Estimate time taken to get access in one mode, and balance accordingly!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoSundown.5419 Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 > @Vulf.3098 said: > > @IndigoSundown.5419 said: > > What if I don't agree that raids are the most challenging content in the game? Do I then get to suggest that all the best rewards should be exclusive to ranked PvP, and nothing else matters? > > I believe the point was if you put the time and effort into the challenging end game content like Raids, PvP, WvW, and Fractals you should be rewarded appropriately. Either you believe incorrectly, or the poster I quoted expressed himself incorrectly. His post was about raid rewards not being good enough. He posted, "If you agree raids are in fact the most challenging content in the game then the rewards should match that." So, no. I don't agree that raids are the most challenging content in the game. Ergo, the current rewards are fine. > When PvP gets their legendary trinket in the next coming months be prepared to see this same post again with "Why should I do X to get Y?" or "Why is X locked behind Y?". People are going to piss and moan about everything that isn't exactly the way they prefer it to be? Sounds about right. However, the pissing and moaning is not restricted just to people who want alternate paths to the latest virtual whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flog.3485 Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 > @Bish.8627 said: > We had a poll on here recently. Ended up like 5% of players who voted actually raid. > > This is why exclusives locked away behind raids is unacceptable. They didn't learn when fractals came out. > > This game used to be about doing what you want at your own pace and still having access to all gear. Now we have sets locked behind expansions, infusions locked on ascended gear that takes too much money or too much time to make. Now legendary armour and rings that will be locked behind raids. Even if they did introduce this to WvW or open PVE it would be locked behind such a massive gate it would be pointless (rank 1500 wvw anyone?) > > Not to mention I have never had any intention to raid or fractal as the community is so elitist and toxic. Not all, there are some lovely players there, but the majority. Dungeons were bad enough, but at least a few were kind enough to teach you how do speed run, instead of assuming everyone magically knows how and if they don't have the same learned knowledge as them, they are noobs. > > ALL game modes should get access to new tiers and stats at the same time. Estimate time taken to get access in one mode, and balance accordingly!! I think you are kinda mistaken here. They never said all gear (skins) would be accesible whatever game mode we played. They only stated that the same tier of gear would be accessible to anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taygus.4571 Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 > @Ashen.2907 said: > > @Taygus.4571 said: > > > @Fremtid.3528 said: > > > > @Taygus.4571 said: > > > > > @Fremtid.3528 said: > > > > > > @Taygus.4571 said: > > > > > > I don't do raids. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't see the problem of offering a legendary ring. It's not like you need it for pve. And ascended trinkets are easy enough to get. > > > > > > > > > > > This is literally besides the point. Some people like having legendaries because it means every time they release new stats, all they have to do is change the legendary gear and don't have to mystic forge gear a thousand times until you find a build for you. Especially with hardened leather being at the high price it is now. Which is why when originally legendary armor was locked behind only raids SO MANY PEOPLE WERE PISSED. And now with the upcoming release of a set of legendary trinkets and rings etc people are like "cool, i won't have to grind whatever current currency to get trinkets, just stat swap." But anet's like "hold up a sec, lol, you raid bro?" > > > > > > > > > > Not only that, the creation of legendaries gives people long to semi-long term goals to keep them logging in every day. And when you lock the only one of it's slot behind raids after already giving raids the only legendary armor with effects. I'm sorry it's kitten. I already have more than enough ascended trinkets! You're right they ARE easy to get. Unfortunately, I wanted to build the legendary ring so that if i needed to tweak my build for wvw I wouldn't have to mindlessly farm living world currency for a week or more to get it. I'd rather put my hard work into an investment not throw away trash that I'm going to have to toss next stat change. Next elite spec. Next balance patch. > > > > > > > > > > And as I've said before, with them releasing the ring like this. It now means I have nothing to do until Christmas. Which is a problem for me and no incentive to log in. And you might be like whatever to that but I'm industrious and I've done a lot of stuff in this game that other people haven't. I'm an ach hunter. GH builder. I've built and decorated a private gh. I've built 17 legendaries. Despite my heavy PVE leanings I'm almost rank 900 in wvw. I've accomplished a lot in the three years i've been playing this game. And if I tell you *I* have nothing to do. You can bet people with a lot less drive are bored as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guess you better find a raid guild ;) > > > > > > > > In most cases..its cheaper to have a separate character with the different ascended stats that you want theb it is to go through the process of legendary anyway. > > > > > > > > And you still would have to change sigils. > > > > > > > > And you sound like you spen far too many hours in this game. Have a kit kat. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not bored.... And I have like no real goals lol. But I also don't treat the game like a full time job. > > > > > > tfw someone off topic tells you to eat chocolate, you don't even like chocolate and its not even high quality chocolate they're offering you. /coolstorybro > > > > I have absolutely no idea what you're on about. > > You suggested that he eat a kit kat. He explained that he does not like chocolate, let alone low quality chocolate, such as is used in kit kat bars. Then he doesn't get the rewards offered by kit kat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexZero.7910 Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 > @Bish.8627 said: > We had a poll on here recently. Ended up like 5% of players who voted actually raid. Yes, because the forums is the perfect representative sample size and every player whose ever touched this game voted in it right ? Kinda wish the forums would disable polls anyway, most of them are flawed and skewed beyond belief and are misused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulf.3098 Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 > @IndigoSundown.5419 said: > Either you believe incorrectly, or the poster I quoted expressed himself incorrectly. His post was about raid rewards not being good enough. He posted, "If you agree raids are in fact the most challenging content in the game then the rewards should match that." So, no. I don't agree that raids are the most challenging content in the game. Ergo, the current rewards are fine. What would even be better rewards at this point? It's not like they will add another tier of gear that gives better stats. I think the current rewards for all the end game content gamemodes is extremely fair. > People are going to kitten and moan about everything that isn't exactly the way they prefer it to be? Sounds about right. However, the pissing and moaning is not restricted just to people who want alternate paths to the latest virtual whatever. Which is why I dread coming to the forums because I feel like all I see is the same 5-8 people complaining about everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZerotheFang.5890 Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 its 1 ring big whoop i not outraged because i can have multiple ascended ones for way cheaper then running around raid wings to get it plus the things not even complete soo i no care anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adenin.5973 Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 > @Crossaber.8934 said: > So more and more good stuff locked behind Raid, looks like the game is no longer the original GW2. Yeah, who the hell at Anet thinks it's a fantastic idea to lock the few items that would keep people interested in this grindfest of a game (a fun though) behind elitist content that only 1 out of 10 players even plays? This is not WoW, where raids are introduced in a completely other way to players, where raids are far more accessible through various degrees of difficulty, with easy and clear indicators of how difficult a raid is and if your gear is ready for it, where dungeons lead you right into it. When I play WoW, I do a fair bit of quests on the new maps but most of the times I spend in dungeons and after that in raids. In GW2 I don't want to even step inside of a raid. The entire concept does not fit in my experience. Whether it's the ridiculous elitists that lead some of the raid groups or it's the lack of any sort of "holy trinity" or because most classes are not welcome in raids or need builds most people hate to play, maybe because I simply don't want to waste my time to do "training runs" and spend hours on Discord or TS to accomplish anything in a game that I play to relax, I don't know. For me, GW2 was simply not build around raiding and I find it more and more annoying how the "raiding aspect" of PvE dominates every class balance Patch and increasingly many of the rewards I would want to see added into open world content. You can't just throw unique rewards and lore into raids and expect the community as a whole to be happy about it when the majority of people weren't happy with the raids to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDan.4759 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 > @"DanAlcedo.3281" said: > Hi guys. > > Just looked at the new leg. Ring collection. > I dont care much but i thought the forum would explode because of this..... > > http://img.picshare.at/1511934203_why.jpg Do you use a tablet as monitor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipso.8653 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 I keep seeing this term 'locked behind raids' what does that even mean? is your account not able to enter the raid instance? or do you just not want to do them? cause if its the latter, then its not locked behind anything -you're just choosing not to do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldirtbeard.9834 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 I can't afford to craft a legendary, so no reason for outrage. If you can afford to craft legendaries then you can afford to buy a Raid spot right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laila Lightness.8742 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 > @"DanAlcedo.3281" said: > > > > > > @Alehin.3746 said: > > > Every game mode have some legendary stuff, and raids have nothing but legendary armor +ring now, while OWPvE have weapons + aurora, sPvP have armor+wing, WvW have armor + wing. Idk, raids getting the ring seems pretty acceptable to me. > > Note: Nobody cares about the skins. Stat swap is whats important. > > Options. > Backpack : PvE / WvW / PvP > Armor : PvE(Raid) / WvW / PvP > Weapons : Open for everyone (Just Money) > Trinket: Open for everyone (Just Money + some Achievments everyone can do) > Ring : Raid > > How it should be: > Backpack : PvE / WvW / PvP > Armor : PvE(Raid) / WvW / PvP > Weapons : Open for everyone (Just Money) > Trinket (a): Open for everyone (Just Money + some Achievments everyone can do) Lw3 > Trinket (b):Open for everyone (Just Money + some Achievments everyone can do) Lw4 > Ring (a) : Raid locked only Raider can get it > Ring (b) : WvW Locked only WvW Player can get it > Amulett: PvP Locked only Pvp Player can get it > > Only Fair this way. If you want the FULL set you have to player ALL gamemodes. > > > > I think majority want raid part away add new stuff as loot ore something I like raids but if rewards was in open world so woulds be rather pointless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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