Auto Attack Does Too Much Damage For All Classes. It Makes the Game Less Dynamic.

[Cobrakon.3108]

Auto attack should be know where near 2/3 of max damage and yet it seems most classes seem to float around this ratio, maybe sometimes even more. This tells me that they balanced things by marginalizing big hit abilities compressing the difference between auto attack and special attack damage (burst, etc.)

 

This makes gameplay both in pvp and pve less dynamic. If u want to play cold and calculated in pvp it often doesn't reward u for such play. Its more likely that u need to ensure auto attack spam to some degree. This makes counter play less common and instead promotes counter builds. IT essentially limits your options. your 1-5 in the earlier days of guild wars 2 was better and providing u options, ways to punish and offer u real time strategies.

 

Now the only really important strat is monitoring boons and conditions like some card game and Anet has discarded much of its positional dynamic game play.

 

That's part of my take on it anyways.

[zealex.9410]

Every aa is too strong idd but its nowhere stong enough that just aa is the optimal way to kill stuff (in pve at least and for most cases (as there are some cases where due to bad design thats the case).

 

Autos are a filler mechanic and needs to have a respectable number of ddmg to keep up the pace when abilities are off cb.

 

That also aplies in other areas than pve. A thief that only uses dagger aa or a war tha just spamms aa will find himself at a disadvantage fast enough.

 

I do agree that early gameplay was more tactical but i believe that was the case because there wasnt so much consistent boon and condi aplication as well as passive defensives that save your ass for you.

[Ohoni.6057]

I could agree, except that 2-5 moves have cooldowns and/or other costs that mean that you can't use them reliably without either a. following a pre-scripted rotation, which is just super boring, or b. ending up with nothing useful to do while you wait to have access to your attacks again. In some very specific cases this might be ok, like a Deadeye that does way more damage than they currently do, but for the most part it would become very boring.

 

Given the current layout, I tend to like the current system, wherein auto attacks tend to do a lot of the bread and butter damage, while the other four attacks are more tactical, used to maneuver, counter, or spike damage as needed.

[Jacuzzi.1643]

That's just the nature of the beast with GW2 created to be a more casual MMO experience. If you mess up your rotation, your dps isn't butchered and you can still recover by using auto attacks to stall until your next big skill. In other tab target MMO's you'd likely have to start the rotation from the beginning.

[Irreverent.3594]

Sure nerf auto, but then remove cd from everything.

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

> @Irreverent.3594 said:

> Sure nerf auto, but then remove cd from everything.

 

Give every class Initiative and remove cooldowns. Same for Revenant too.

Or Revenant can keep its gauge but don't make it always reset back to 50 when not in combat and keep it always at 100.

[Cynz.9437]

> @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > @Irreverent.3594 said:

> > Sure nerf auto, but then remove cd from everything.

>

> Give every class Initiative and remove cooldowns. Same for Revenant too.

> Or Revenant can keep its gauge but don't make it always reset back to 50 when not in combat and keep it always at 100.

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Only people that never played thief would ask for this. Ini = CD, it takes time to get it back and it is shared across 2 weaponsets.

Also, some spells are designed around timed window. Would they have no CD and could be cast twice back to back, we would have really huge issues with some classes.

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

> @Cynz.9437 said:

> > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > > @Irreverent.3594 said:

> > > Sure nerf auto, but then remove cd from everything.

> >

> > Give every class Initiative and remove cooldowns. Same for Revenant too.

> > Or Revenant can keep its gauge but don't make it always reset back to 50 when not in combat and keep it always at 100.

>

> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Only people that never played thief would ask for this. Ini = CD, it takes time to get it back and it is shared across 2 weaponsets.

> Also, some spells are designed around timed window. Would they have no CD and could be cast twice back to back, we would have really huge issues with some classes.

 

It's only cooldown in the sense of not mashing every button like a madman, but still can pull off 2 or 3 of the same move (sometimes 4 or 5) without having to worry about waiting 10+ seconds on cooldown on that one skill.

Can even add it to the elite skill (I would reaaaaaaaaaally like this for thief...)

[Cynz.9437]

> @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > @Cynz.9437 said:

> > > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > > > @Irreverent.3594 said:

> > > > Sure nerf auto, but then remove cd from everything.

> > >

> > > Give every class Initiative and remove cooldowns. Same for Revenant too.

> > > Or Revenant can keep its gauge but don't make it always reset back to 50 when not in combat and keep it always at 100.

> >

> > HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Only people that never played thief would ask for this. Ini = CD, it takes time to get it back and it is shared across 2 weaponsets.

> > Also, some spells are designed around timed window. Would they have no CD and could be cast twice back to back, we would have really huge issues with some classes.

>

> It's only cooldown in the sense of not mashing every button like a madman, but still can pull off 2 or 3 of the same move (sometimes 4 or 5) without having to worry about waiting 10+ seconds on cooldown on that one skill.

> Can even add it to the elite skill (I would reaaaaaaaaaally like this for thief...)

 

Thief spells are balanced around ini hence why most of them on itself are not so great and usually better used in combo (see d/p) or are very situational. They also include opportunity costs that no other class (outside of rev maybe) has. Meaning, if i chose to spam HS i won't be able to stealth. If say necro chose to cast staff 5 he still can cast staff 2,3,4.

Some spells from other classes are extremely strong and it would lead to huge imbalance if they could use them few times back to back.

 

No CD on elite skill? For real? Glad you and OP are not on balancing team.

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

> @Cynz.9437 said:

> > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > > @Cynz.9437 said:

> > > > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > > > > @Irreverent.3594 said:

> > > > > Sure nerf auto, but then remove cd from everything.

> > > >

> > > > Give every class Initiative and remove cooldowns. Same for Revenant too.

> > > > Or Revenant can keep its gauge but don't make it always reset back to 50 when not in combat and keep it always at 100.

> > >

> > > HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Only people that never played thief would ask for this. Ini = CD, it takes time to get it back and it is shared across 2 weaponsets.

> > > Also, some spells are designed around timed window. Would they have no CD and could be cast twice back to back, we would have really huge issues with some classes.

> >

> > It's only cooldown in the sense of not mashing every button like a madman, but still can pull off 2 or 3 of the same move (sometimes 4 or 5) without having to worry about waiting 10+ seconds on cooldown on that one skill.

> > Can even add it to the elite skill (I would reaaaaaaaaaally like this for thief...)

>

> Thief spells are balanced around ini hence why most of them on itself are not so great and usually better used in combo (see d/p) or are very situational.

> Some spells from other classes are extremely strong and it would lead to huge imbalance if they could use them few times back to back.

>

> You actually want to add CD on thief spells on top of ini? For real now?

 

Where did I say I WANT a cooldown? I said remove it.

Let me use Dagger Storm with Initiative so I don't have to keep waiting on 90 seconds to use it again (or was it 60... forgot, but it takes too long).

[Cynz.9437]

> @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > @Cynz.9437 said:

> > > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > > > @Cynz.9437 said:

> > > > > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > > > > > @Irreverent.3594 said:

> > > > > > Sure nerf auto, but then remove cd from everything.

> > > > >

> > > > > Give every class Initiative and remove cooldowns. Same for Revenant too.

> > > > > Or Revenant can keep its gauge but don't make it always reset back to 50 when not in combat and keep it always at 100.

> > > >

> > > > HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Only people that never played thief would ask for this. Ini = CD, it takes time to get it back and it is shared across 2 weaponsets.

> > > > Also, some spells are designed around timed window. Would they have no CD and could be cast twice back to back, we would have really huge issues with some classes.

> > >

> > > It's only cooldown in the sense of not mashing every button like a madman, but still can pull off 2 or 3 of the same move (sometimes 4 or 5) without having to worry about waiting 10+ seconds on cooldown on that one skill.

> > > Can even add it to the elite skill (I would reaaaaaaaaaally like this for thief...)

> >

> > Thief spells are balanced around ini hence why most of them on itself are not so great and usually better used in combo (see d/p) or are very situational.

> > Some spells from other classes are extremely strong and it would lead to huge imbalance if they could use them few times back to back.

> >

> > You actually want to add CD on thief spells on top of ini? For real now?

>

> Where did I say I WANT a cooldown? I said remove it.

> Let me use Dagger Storm with Initiative so I don't have to keep waiting on 90 seconds to use it again (or was it 60... forgot, but it takes too long).

 

Yeah, let's allow mes to use moa every 15 sec. That would be great idea, no? Have you even thought why those spells have such long CDs? Think about how long it takes to gain full ini and how long it takes to for moa to come back. There are reasons for those CDs. Those spells are too strong to be on short CDs.

[Umut.5471]

They have to redesign the whole game to make that happen. Game mechanics revolve around it.

[FaboBabo.3581]

Are you guys defending auto attacks which deal 6-8k damage?

 

Because auto attacks for 6-8k damage is nuts.

[Cynz.9437]

> @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> Are you guys defending auto attacks which deal 6-8k damage?

>

> Because auto attacks for 6-8k damage is nuts.

 

Show me AA dealing 6-8K dmg.

[Daffan.8924]

no AA with low cd on everything makes this blade and soul where ping literally means everything.

[Ardid.7203]

Engie carefully hides his hammer, while pointing at pistol, rifle and sword.

[Lilyanna.9361]

> @Cynz.9437 said:

> > @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> > Are you guys defending auto attacks which deal 6-8k damage?

> >

> > Because auto attacks for 6-8k damage is nuts.

>

> Show me AA dealing 6-8K dmg.

 

Me too, in what land is the auto attacks 8k?

 

Ele> Nope

Teef> Backstab is not an auto attack

Mesmer> nope

Rev> nope

War> nope

Necro> Hell no

Guard> Lol

Ranger> Pfft

Engie> Yeah, no.

 

You are complaining about crits broham. Base damage of AA on most classes is between 800-1k being the highest.

[Arzurag.7506]

> @Lilyanna.9361 said:

> > @Cynz.9437 said:

> > > @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> > > Are you guys defending auto attacks which deal 6-8k damage?

> > >

> > > Because auto attacks for 6-8k damage is nuts.

> >

> > Show me AA dealing 6-8K dmg.

>

> Me too, in what land is the auto attacks 8k?

>

> Ele> Nope

> Teef> Backstab is not an auto attack

> Mesmer> nope

> Rev> nope

> War> nope

> Necro> Hell no

> Guard> Lol

> Ranger> Pfft

> Engie> Yeah, no.

>

> You are complaining about crits broham. Base damage of AA on most classes is between 800-1k being the highest.

 

Well, if you crit, some classes can dish out 8k AA-crit.

[OriOri.8724]

> @Cynz.9437 said:

> > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > > @Cynz.9437 said:

> > > > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > > > > @Irreverent.3594 said:

> > > > > Sure nerf auto, but then remove cd from everything.

> > > >

> > > > Give every class Initiative and remove cooldowns. Same for Revenant too.

> > > > Or Revenant can keep its gauge but don't make it always reset back to 50 when not in combat and keep it always at 100.

> > >

> > > HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Only people that never played thief would ask for this. Ini = CD, it takes time to get it back and it is shared across 2 weaponsets.

> > > Also, some spells are designed around timed window. Would they have no CD and could be cast twice back to back, we would have really huge issues with some classes.

> >

> > It's only cooldown in the sense of not mashing every button like a madman, but still can pull off 2 or 3 of the same move (sometimes 4 or 5) without having to worry about waiting 10+ seconds on cooldown on that one skill.

> > Can even add it to the elite skill (I would reaaaaaaaaaally like this for thief...)

>

> Thief spells are balanced around ini hence why most of them on itself are not so great and usually better used in combo (see d/p) or are very situational. They also include opportunity costs that no other class (outside of rev maybe) has. Meaning, if i chose to spam HS i won't be able to stealth. If say necro chose to cast staff 5 he still can cast staff 2,3,4.

> Some spells from other classes are extremely strong and it would lead to huge imbalance if they could use them few times back to back.

>

> No CD on elite skill? For real? Glad you and OP are not on balancing team.

 

Honestly its never going to be possible to balance thief weapon skills as long as they remain without any CD whatsoever. As much as you and other thief mains may hate the sound of this, lowering the INI costs on the weapon skills but then giving some of them _short_ CDs to avoid spam would allow for way more balance in your weapon skills, allowing a lot of them to be potentially buffed. Lowered INI costs would also help alleviate other problems that the class faces, like having to share the ini pool between both weapon sets

[Biff.5312]

 

> It's only cooldown in the sense of not mashing every button like a madman, but still can pull off 2 or 3 of the same move (sometimes 4 or 5) without having to worry about waiting 10+ seconds on cooldown on that one skill.

 

Which basically turns that one skill into your auto-attack and discourages the use of other skills.

 

 

[Rennie.6750]

If damage wasn't mostly coming from autos then there would be no rotations at all as it would be spamming the highest dmg spells on cooldown. Not that I'm firmly opposed to either, it's just a different flavour of gameplay but it's not any harder.

[leftharted.7102]

im super casual and by No means a min/maxer; but id say ive watched A TON of GW2 YouTube footage, pvp, pve etc over the last, what, 5 years?

 

and Never have I Ever seen an auto attack doing more than maybe 2k, and this is usually on the third wind up of 2h melee hits, or slow-as-molasses deadeye auto with tons of Vuln already applied; and therefore not super consistent... 95% of the time auto attacks I've seen are in the ballpark of 700-1100....

 

if you can show a AA is doing 6k-8k consistently without babysitting other mechanics; or spreading large amounts of Cheese, then ill bite. But, I doubt it...

 

game is fine as-is; if you want button bloat with meaningless auto-attacks go play SWTOR. just my 2c.

 

 

[Endless Soul.5178]

> @leftharted.7102 said:

> im super casual and by No means a min/maxer; but id say ive watched A TON of GW2 YouTube footage, pvp, pve etc over the last, what, 5 years?

>

> and Never have I Ever seen an auto attack doing more than maybe 2k, and this is usually on the third wind up of 2h melee hits, or slow-as-molasses deadeye auto with tons of Vuln already applied; and therefore not super consistent... 95% of the time auto attacks I've seen are in the ballpark of 700-1100....

>

> if you can show a AA is doing 6k-8k consistently without babysitting other mechanics; or spreading large amounts of Cheese, then ill bite. But, I doubt it...

>

> game is fine as-is; if you want button bloat with meaningless auto-attacks go play SWTOR. just my 2c.

>

>

 

Agreed. I have the distinct feeling that OP is looking for problems where there aren't any.