More “paths” to legendary gear...

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Stormscar.5489" said:

> > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > @"Voltekka.2375" said:

> > > > > @"Stormscar.5489" said:

> > > > > It's so sad watching these kinds of discussion from players who are not interested in playing a GAME, but farmville or some of those other games were you basically afk and are rewarded. What happened with rewards being given out for skillful play, for getting better at the game and overcoming a difficult part of the content? For years we had legendaries, the supposed endgame goal, given out to anyone who afk farmed and barely ever had to do anything but 11111 in open world. When players who were interested in playing a GAME left seeing there was no challenge, most of the remaining playerbase were players used to getting handed stuff without actually having to understand GW2 at all.

> > > > >

> > > > > So the outrage isn't surprising when just a part of the new rewards started being tied to challenging content (Raids), those people cried that the game is becoming 'elitist'. And for people who say that GW2 shouldn't have raids, I'll remind you that GW1 had plenty of endgame PvE that required more than facerolling your keyboard (Vanquishing areas to a degree, and obviously areas such as UW/DoA/FoW, with their associated meta builds and comps). Saying raids aren't challenging is a total lie, unless you're maybe comparing to the difficulty of raids in other games, on which I don't have any recent experiences I can compare with so I don't know. But compared to what PvE was for years (open world/dungeons/non-CM fractals), they totally are.

> > > > >

> > > > > And I do support rewards to WvW/PvP as well that are tied behind them. The issue with those game modes is that they reveal less about the skill than the raid legendary armor, because it is much more likely you afk pip farm or you just grind enough PvP games at a low elo (buying 150LI or doing 2-3 bosses per week is much less likely to happen, but admit it can happen).

> > > > >

> > > > > In my opinion, the game needs more exclusive rewards tied to content where you need to learn and improve rather than a measure of how much you play/grind. And for people who use the excuse they don't have time to organise for a raid or can't find enough people to raid with, these are just excuses. And I'd like to remind you this is a MMO, you should have to play and coordinate with other players to beat content. Go play a single player game if you don't like it. And for the 10 man vs 5 man thing, it is a good design choice because you can introduce a wider variety of mechanics in a single fight when you can have 10 people available to do various tasks rather than 5.

> > > > >

> > > > > I think Anet catering to a casual player base unfortunately ruined what GW2 could have been. And by casual I don't mean someone who doesn't play too much, but someone who REFUSES to want to put any thought when playing this game. A game with GW2's combat system and lack of vertical progression but coupled with WoW's pve content and release cadence would have been awesome.

> > > >

> > > > You honestly think that PvP and WvW ( player vs player systems) are EASIER than an artificial UI (raids) which is created and designed to lose? Mate, seriously? If anything, buying raid kills with money is muuuuch easier now (just look in the raid lfg at how many people sell kills). Cant see how you would pay people to let you be top pvp or wvw... Rewards. Thats the point. Dont care about your exclusive raid skin, i want decent rewards for the game mode i support.

> > >

> > > Mate, don't take the wrong way, but you're vastly underestimating the skills needed to raid. They are different than what's needed in pvp modes, but that doesn't make them any less of a skill. When a PvEer sets foot in a WvW for the first time, he'd be a total noob. It will be the same for a vet WvW players trying to raid for the first time.

> >

> > Never said raids are easy. On the contrary. It just feels like they overreward, sometimes. And other game modes underreward. That is all.

>

> I don't think they overreward, just that the other competitive modes underreward as you said. There's something wrong when the best rewards/gold are made by 11111111ing in an open world zerg.

 

It's fine actually, because gold doesn't mean much. Skins are much more important for Fashion Wars, hence exclusive skins are much more valuable.

[DeadlyBanana.3841]

Tbh my biggest beef with legendary armor is not the game mode it is tied with but the gold cost. I would much rather have leg armor require much more commitment in terms of time and especially in terms of skill rather than having you run silverwastes to farm gold for the materials needed.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Linken.6345" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > Anyone but me notice that there is always the suggestion to just buy a raid, from the raid proponents. Seems pretty clear why they want things the way they are. But I can't blame people for wanting to make money at the expense of other players, but I can blame Anet for fostering that kind of environment.

> > >

> > > Please point me **one** my post where I've told another person "go buy the raid". Spreading misinformation and rumors much?

> >

> > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > Buy an occasional boss or achievement when they lose patience, yes. Even a whole collection.

> >

> > Wasn't that hard to see you suggestion that buying a raid was a viable answer for _some players_

> >

> > Edit Added: But just so we are clear, I am cool with that, if I had 7 other people that I ran with to do raids, and I'd be selling them too, nothing wrong with wanting to make some money off what the game has, so no hard feelings towards you, personally. But, I stand by the fact that it was a bad move on Anet part to put raids in and foster that kind of environment. You are yours are just doing what gamers do, it's Anet that opted to keep things the way they are.

> >

> > TLDR: _I Don't blame the Player.. I am blaming the Game_

>

> Well to be fair people sold dungeon paths way before raids were even thought up to be implemented in this game.

> So not like you can blame raids for fostering that kind of enviroment bud.

 

I swear I must have missed that golden era, as when I started I never saw groups for dungeons or even players selling paths, not that I would have bought one mind you, I play games to **PLAY games**, paying someone else to play a game for me defeats the whole concept of playing a game, as far as my feelings on the matter go. I am sure others feel differently.

 

But I blame Anet for this situation, while Raids are not the solitary culprit, they have by some magic of being **Raids**, took all the worst parts of Dungeons and Fractals, and exponentially made them worse.

 

With that said, the only real thing to understand here, is that Anet could change this situation.. and has chosen not to.

 

And that is all that matters.

 

[Tails.9372]

> @"Stormscar.5489" said:

> There's something wrong when the best rewards/gold are made by 11111111ing in an open world zerg.

OW PvE has it by far the worst in regards to the quality of mode specific rewards, they don't even have an overarching reward system unlike other game modes. "11111111ing in an open world zerg" is only good for getting gold but that's about it.

[Celsith.2753]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

 

> But it alienates players across game modes. Encouraging them to mix and socialize together isn't a bad thing.

Ask any pver who has had to grind wvw if they agree with you.

 

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

>

> > But it alienates players across game modes. Encouraging them to mix and socialize together isn't a bad thing.

> Ask any pver who has had to grind wvw if they agree with you.

>

 

I'm one, I had to, I agree with myself. Therefore positive experiences in pvers exist.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> >

> > > But it alienates players across game modes. Encouraging them to mix and socialize together isn't a bad thing.

> > Ask any pver who has had to grind wvw if they agree with you.

> >

>

> I'm one, I had to, I agree with myself. Therefore positive experiences in pvers exist.

 

That doesn't mean others in the same situation would share the experience. It also doesn't mean the people you were encouraged to mix and socialize with (the veteran WvWers, in this case) would share your feeling. If you haven't noticed, the PvErs that are in only to obtain some rewards are generally not all too well received by both PvP communities.

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > >

> > > > But it alienates players across game modes. Encouraging them to mix and socialize together isn't a bad thing.

> > > Ask any pver who has had to grind wvw if they agree with you.

> > >

> >

> > I'm one, I had to, I agree with myself. Therefore positive experiences in pvers exist.

>

> That doesn't mean others in the same situation would share the experience. It also doesn't mean the people you were encouraged to mix and socialize with (the veteran WvWers, in this case) would share your feeling. If you haven't noticed, the PvErs that are in only to obtain some rewards are generally not all too well received by both PvP communities.

 

Of course. The point is, not everyone leaves and overall it's better for the community.

[BeLZedaR.4790]

There should be a path for PvPers to create a legendary every 6 months just like any casual ow pver can. Add Gift of Mists Mastery or something to allow pure PvP legendary creation. Same for WvW.

[Tails.9372]

> @"BeLZedaR.4790" said:

> There should be a path for casual ow pvers to create a legendary every 6 months just like any sPvPler & WvWler can. Add Gift of X Mastery or something to allow pure OW PvE legendary creation.

fixed

[BeLZedaR.4790]

> @"Tails.9372" said:

> > @"BeLZedaR.4790" said:

> > There should be a path for casual ow pvers to create a legendary every 6 months just like any sPvPler & WvWler can. Add Gift of X Mastery or something to allow pure OW PvE legendary creation.

> fixed

 

Say what? There is legit no way you can make any legendary being spvp or wvw only since ypu need map completion and pve only currencies do you even play the game?

You clearly haven’t set a foot in either of pvp or wvw if you really think this LUL while I have played pve quite a lot and I’ve met a friend who made 3k gold a month doing silverwastes ow.

There are plenty of ways to get legendaries doing open world exlusively not even doing raids pr fracs or any apart from 1 week in wvw for gift of battle.

[Tails.9372]

> @"BeLZedaR.4790" said:

> Say what?

You can't acquire a single piece of legendary armor by solely playing OW PvE. On the other hand WvW for example can simply upgrade either their tier 2 or tier 3 ascended armor to legendary, no other game mode required.

 

[BeLZedaR.4790]

> @"Tails.9372" said:

> > @"BeLZedaR.4790" said:

> > Say what?

> You can't acquire a single piece of legendary armor by solely playing OW PvE. On the other hand WvW for example can simply upgrade either their tier 2 or tier 3 ascended armor to legendary, no other game mode required.

>

 

Im talking legendary weapona can’t give less of a shit on legendary armor rly, and your game here of changing my own words is laughable at best.

[Tails.9372]

> @"BeLZedaR.4790" said:

> Im talking legendary weapona can’t give less of a kitten on legendary armor rly, and your game here of changing my own words is laughable at best.

Except there aren't any pure OW legendary weapons either and next time try not to be as vague as possible if you don't want to be misinterpreted.

[Sarrs.4831]

> @"Celsith.2753" said:

> Ask any pver who has had to grind wvw if they agree with you.

 

I'm mostly a WvWer and I enjoyed my foray into PvP to get Ascension.

[Celsith.2753]

> @"Sarrs.4831" said:

> > @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > Ask any pver who has had to grind wvw if they agree with you.

>

> I'm mostly a WvWer and I enjoyed my foray into PvE to get Ascension.

 

I also enjoy most of my PvE excursion breaks from WvW but that isn't what I referred too.

[zealex.9410]

> @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

>

> > But it alienates players across game modes. Encouraging them to mix and socialize together isn't a bad thing.

> Ask any pver who has had to grind wvw if they agree with you.

>

 

Im not sure if this is about the legendary armor or not but in wvw u dont need to socialise. In raids u do.

[Edelweiss.4261]

I think locking a skin behind a particular game mode is fine. Locking a feature that isn't particular to a game mode behind that mode, however, is kind of shitty. I'd also be more than alright with allowing paths to legendary weapons for PvP, WvW, and raids, without the need to participate in open-world content. Someone else having an item has no effect on my enjoyment of that item.

[Klipso.8653]

We have 3 modes and 3 paths, stop with this bullshit

[Tman.6349]

> @"Sarrs.4831" said:

> > @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > Ask any pver who has had to grind wvw if they agree with you.

>

> I'm mostly a WvWer and I enjoyed my foray into PvE to get Ascension.

 

Don't you mean, you're a PvEer, but you found pvp to be enjoyable as well?

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Klipso.8653" said:

> We have 3 modes and 3 paths, stop with this kitten

Raids are a niche content, they are not a representative of all PvE. Raid path being the only PvE path has as much sense as SPvP path being only through Stronghold battles. Or WvW one by duels in obsidian sanctum.

(abstract examples, but you get the picture, i hope)

 

 

[Feanor.2358]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Klipso.8653" said:

> > We have 3 modes and 3 paths, stop with this kitten

> Raids are a niche content, they are not a representative of all PvE. Raid path being the only PvE path has as much sense as SPvP path being only through Stronghold battles. Or WvW one by duels in obsidian sanctum.

> (abstract examples, but you get the picture, i hope)

>

>

 

Ya, because getting 6-7k tickets in WvW is totally casual...

[Astralporing.1957]

It's not casual if you think of the time invested, but it still requires only core, basic WvW gameplay. All WvW players will get to that point eventually, no matter how they play. Raids are not a core, basic PvE gameplay. They _are_ a niche sidecontent meant for only a minority of PvE players.

[Edelweiss.4261]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Klipso.8653" said:

> > We have 3 modes and 3 paths, stop with this kitten

> Raids are a niche content, they are not a representative of all PvE. Raid path being the only PvE path has as much sense as SPvP path being only through Stronghold battles. Or WvW one by duels in obsidian sanctum.

> (abstract examples, but you get the picture, i hope)

>

>

Definitely! The mental gymnastics that are required to put raids and open world as one path but sPvP and WvW as two separate paths are astounding. I fail to see how anyone could hold that viewpoint while being even internally consistent. Raiding and open world play by entirely different ethos and both draw players that the other doesn't. If only PvP or WvW had a path to legendary armor, the other would likely have a decent number of players that felt snubbed. Try to have at least the tiniest fraction of empathy.

 

Besides that, how does someone else having an item hurt anyone? Being a high rank in PvP or WvW should be prestigious without the need for keeping content out of the hands of other players. You want your cosmetics? Fine, I don't want them. Cosmetics are a way of advertising your status, I guess. You want to hold both a useful feature as well as an entire class of armor hostage for pride? That seems a bit conceited. This works in reverse for legendary weapons as well. Gating them behind exploration or crafting is unfair to PvP/WvW players and raiders. Heck, I personally don't even mind if you get the cosmetics.

[Umut.5471]

I'm still waiting to see an alternative way to get legendary armors from open world PvE.

I can't complete my legendary set without legendary armor so I can't find any point to play nowadays.

I already have all the good stuff except a legendary armor set, please give us a point to play Arenanet.