Obtena.7952 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 No, he's right ... just because you made a correlation doesn't mean it's the cause of the effect. There is no way you can attribute sales trends to the LACK of something in the game. Nor can you claim that adding something to the game will change sales trends, especially in the direction that supports your argument. In fact, ANY reference to affecting sales trends is a non-sequiter to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > Ok, let me rephrase. Anet knows that the majority of their players are PvE. They also knew that a majority of the pve players will not raid - in fact, that was the voiced intention behind the mode. So when they decided to place legendary armor in raids (and then pvp and wvw) they also knew they are placing them in the parts of content most of their players do not participate in. > > > > > That design does exclude that majority of players. Not by placing some hard barriers, impossible to pass, but by intentionally ignoring the preferences of said majority. > > > > > If game devs intentionally ignoring majority of their players is not a problem, then i don't know what is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same could be said for each and every legendary in the game. Let's face it, they all practically exclude casual players, because they take way too much effort for a casual player. > > > > > > There are lots of casual players in WvW, so that's not true. If you play WvW casually, you will be able to craft legendary armor at some point. > > > > No, you wouldn't. I'm playing WvW more than "casually" since before the introduction of the new reward system and I'm still far from getting a single set. The sheer time investment there means you're not a casual if you do it. Same as for getting a legendary weapon. Like I said, yes, it is possible in theory. But it is extremely rare in practice. > > A casual wvwer can get legendary armor,just not in 22 weeks. Maybe in a year and a half, if not more That would mean, they would need to forsake doing anything else they would enjoy in the game, and spend time flipping a camps or killing guards or some other mindless (safe) PvE thing, then waiting for the Pips to clean out in the Starting Area in an Outnumbered WvW Map just to try and farm pips for a Legendary Armor. Well I have got to say, that sounds like a great plan to bleed off players from the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > Ok, let me rephrase. Anet knows that the majority of their players are PvE. They also knew that a majority of the pve players will not raid - in fact, that was the voiced intention behind the mode. So when they decided to place legendary armor in raids (and then pvp and wvw) they also knew they are placing them in the parts of content most of their players do not participate in. > > > > > > That design does exclude that majority of players. Not by placing some hard barriers, impossible to pass, but by intentionally ignoring the preferences of said majority. > > > > > > If game devs intentionally ignoring majority of their players is not a problem, then i don't know what is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Same could be said for each and every legendary in the game. Let's face it, they all practically exclude casual players, because they take way too much effort for a casual player. > > > > > > > > There are lots of casual players in WvW, so that's not true. If you play WvW casually, you will be able to craft legendary armor at some point. > > > > > > No, you wouldn't. I'm playing WvW more than "casually" since before the introduction of the new reward system and I'm still far from getting a single set. The sheer time investment there means you're not a casual if you do it. Same as for getting a legendary weapon. Like I said, yes, it is possible in theory. But it is extremely rare in practice. > > > > A casual wvwer can get legendary armor,just not in 22 weeks. Maybe in a year and a half, if not more > > That would mean, they would need to forsake doing anything else they would enjoy in the game, and spend time flipping a camps or killing guards or some other mindless (safe) PvE thing, then waiting for the Pips to clean out in the Starting Area in an Outnumbered WvW Map just to try and farm pips for a Legendary Armor. > > Well I have got to say, that sounds like a great plan to bleed off players from the game. If that was the ONLY thing that the game had to offer, you might have a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. So.. well.. Anet loses. I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoSundown.5419 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 Facts GUILD WARS 2 QUARTERLY REVENUE in MKW Q3 2012 58,449 Q4 2012 119.013 Q1 2013 36,382 Q2 2013 28,889 Q3 2013 24,481 Q4 2013 33,555 Q1 2014 25,142 Q2 2014 22,214 Q3 2014 19,686 Q4 2014 19,272 Q1 2015 20,026 Hot announce Q2 2015 22,470 Q3 2015 20,699 Q4 2015 37,331 Hot release Q1 2016 30,557 Q2 2016 15,894 Q3 2016 15,315 Q4 2016 14,870 Q1 2017 14,226 Q2 2017 13,557 Q3 2017 20,145 Q4 2017 34,803 Commentary After launch, revenue fluctuated through 2013, but the overall trend is down (with a spike up in the 2013 holiday 4th quarter). Once into 2014, the downward trend continues, then plateaus into 2015 with the HoT announcement, leading to increased revenue from box sales in Q4 (NCSoft stated that store revenue was "stable" in the Q4 15 report. Then, whoa! There is a significant drop in Q2 16, leading into a more gradual decline through Q2 17. Q3 and Q4 17 show increased revenue, with PoF boxes and mount skins as likely explanations. So, what was going on around the time of the Q2 16 drop? During that period, there were complaints about raids, almost all being that a raid wing was added in March, but _other_ PvE saw only festivals, a revamped Shatterer event and in April 2016, the Hot revision. This period began to be referred to as a "content drought." There was also a lot of disaffection with HoT. There were a lot of complaints about the price point and the inclusion of the base game. There were also complaints about the nature of HoT. Legendary Armor was just a promise for most of the decline period, so most of the discussion of it was impatience for its release. Iirc, disaffection over L. Armor gained momentum only after the announcement that there would be no other Legendary Armor skins. It is certainly difficult to know who stopped spending in the store and why. However, as much as some people may have left the game because they were not going to be able to get Envoy Armor, there are other more likely causes. The hot topics at the time were the content drought and unhappiness with HoT, not Envoy Armor or lack of paths to other Legendary items. Laying the decline in revenue at the feet of the decision to limit paths to L. Items is at best a stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. In the end.. Anet still will lose.. and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrizzFreston.5290 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > Commentary > > After launch, revenue fluctuated through 2013, but the overall trend is down (with a spike up in the 2013 holiday 4th quarter). Once into 2014, the downward trend continues, then plateaus into 2015 with the HoT announcement, leading to increased revenue from box sales in Q4 (NCSoft stated that store revenue was "stable" in the Q4 15 report. Then, whoa! There is a significant drop in Q2 16, leading into a more gradual decline through Q2 17. Q3 and Q4 17 show increased revenue, with PoF boxes and mount skins as likely explanations. > > So, what was going on around the time of the Q2 16 drop? During that period, there were complaints about raids, almost all being that a raid wing was added in March, but _other_ PvE saw only festivals, a revamped Shatterer event and in April 2016, the Hot revision. This period began to be referred to as a "content drought." There was also a lot of disaffection with HoT. There were a lot of complaints about the price point and the inclusion of the base game. There were also complaints about the nature of HoT. Legendary Armor was just a promise for most of the decline period, so most of the discussion of it was impatience for its release. Iirc, disaffection over L. Armor gained momentum only after the announcement that there would be no other Legendary Armor skins. > > It is certainly difficult to know who stopped spending in the store and why. However, as much as some people may have left the game because they were not going to be able to get Envoy Armor, there are other more likely causes. The hot topics at the time were the content drought and unhappiness with HoT, not Envoy Armor or lack of paths to other Legendary items. Laying the decline in revenue at the feet of the decision to limit paths to L. Items is at best a stretch. I think, not saying that anything you said is wrong btw, that also the switch from purely gempurchase funding to expansion funding most likely made people rethink on their gem purchases, or purchase gems with the ultimate edition as they would obviously put in money in the game by buying the expansion, that will limit people's likeliness to spend in the gemstore as well. Especially considering the price of HoT at the time. At least I can imagine having to spend money on the game, does at least affect ones ability to also purchase gems. And maybe the 17Q4 numbers could possibly tell that PoF sold better than HoT, considering the price differences between the two expansions? So if everything goes well, I would predict that expansions will (hopefully) shoot their sale prices up every so often while having lower "in between expansions" sales. At least that seems to make sense to me, not that I have any economical knowledge or actual exact data. Either way such massive changes logical would have more influence on the sales than some relatively minor ingame goal that probably only a smaller amount of people bother to aim for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alehin.3746 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > After launch, revenue fluctuated through 2013, but the overall trend is down (with a spike up in the 2013 holiday 4th quarter). No, go back and look at your numbers, you will see that Q1-2014 is better then Q3-2013, so, there was not an overall decline, the numbers were up and down with dips and spikes, not to mention that there was a significant increase in spending after HoT is announced.. Ergo.. Players were Excited about this game and it's first expansion. Then Post HoT, the game just drops off, Zero Spikes, just a flat, dead, decline. > So, what was going on around the time of the Q2 16 drop? This would be because HoT was released in December, 2015, so it's Pre-sales were Q4-2014, and it's launch Sales were Q1-2016. After that, well, it's common knowledge that there was direct dislike for both HoT as an expansion, and the overall introduction of Raids in general (with Legendary Armor being locked behind them just making matters worse, like putting salt on a wound at that point) > It is certainly difficult to know who stopped spending in the store and why. However, as much as some people may have left the game because they were not going to be able to get Envoy Armor, there are other more likely causes. The hot topics at the time were the content drought and unhappiness with HoT, not Envoy Armor or lack of paths to other Legendary items. Laying the decline in revenue at the feet of the decision to limit paths to L. Items is at best a stretch. Oh, it's not squarely on Legendary Armor, I mean, as I said above, there was an overall dislike for HoT in it's entirety, and the introduction of Raids in general set a sour note, so, locking the highest tier of Armor behind them was just salt on the wound at this point in the game. In the end, well, if we are going to ask who spent less, well, it's self evident that the people who didn't like HoT (on some of the other forums I am on, they have called HoT a betrayal to the core game, just to give you an idea how well it went over), so, it stands to reason that group obviously started to spend less if not outright quit. However, if the players that love and enjoy raids spent also less, then Anet really made a huge mistake by catering to the wrong group of people who didn't do anything to reciprocate their efforts to provide them content. Just saying on that one. Also, keep in mind that PoF was released in September which is the End of Q3, which means: The Q3 sales were the Psyche-Up Sales of PoF (20 for Pov vs 25 for HoT) and that the Q4-2017 sales were both the Pre and Launch Sales for PoF, where HoT was released Mid Q4-2015 so Pre-Orders affected the Q4-2015 Sales of 37, and Launch affected the Q1-2016 Sales of 30. To put that in perspective, HoT generated gross sales numbers of around 67.. and PoF did 34. We shall see what Q1-2018 brings us. With all that said, While, anyone can try to place blame, here is the facts, post HoT with the Introduction of Raids, income Fell and went into a direct continuous decline. There is no doubt that Anet did something wrong with the introduction of HoT, what that is.. feel free to debate. but, Raids are and have been a tropic of contention since their introduction, as such, all other factors considered, Raids are a huge part of the problem at this point. The Legendary armor.. just makes things worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhatha.2376 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 It's hard to say if that's the case, though. Raids were not the only disliked thing in HoT by far. Of the people who left the game or spent less, it might be because of raids. It could also be because they thought HoT open world zones were too hard. Maybe they soured on the difficult adventures. Maybe they disliked meta maps and wanted maps where events were just on timers. Maybe they disliked elite specs. Maybe they felt that the amount of content that HoT had at release was far too low for the $50 price tag (this was one of the most common initial complaints on the forums at the time). Maybe they soured when the gen 2 legendaries were put on hold. We don't have enough information to say anything with confidence. Anyone who is trying to say anything certain out of this is making some large assumptions. Funny that this discusson never really got any steam with Ad Infinitum or similar. It's really not that different.. though many people think it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. In the end, that's the nature of MMO's ... yes Anet will lose players, for MANY reasons, and they know they can't keep them all. To be certain, they know that and have modeled their business around that inevitable fact. You can continue to say your flawed ideas ... only makes them more obvious they make no sense. You have no idea the impact that adding more paths to legendary gear will have on the game. You continue to claim it hurts the game ... the truth is that you don't know. It's again very clear you haven't got any sense for the fact this is a business with finite resources to implement ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh Its more like "Having that sexy ass summer body is within your reach, you just dont want to do what is necessary" and even then learning the raids takes less effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" > > Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh His comparison is disingenuous to begin with. These guys continue to paint the picture that they are excluded from leg gear. The fact is that they choose to not participate in the activities that allow them to get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" > > Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh > > Its more like "Having that sexy kitten summer body is within your reach, you just dont want to do what is necessary" and even then learning the raids takes less effort. It's all the same really.. Being Rich, being Sexy.. being a World Star Athlete, all within reach for you.. you just don't want to do what is necessary.. it's all the same level of hyperbole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoSundown.5419 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > After launch, revenue fluctuated through 2013, but the overall trend is down (with a spike up in the 2013 holiday 4th quarter). > > No, go back and look at your numbers, you will see that Q1-2014 is better then Q3-2013, so, there was not an overall decline, the numbers were up and down with dips and spikes, not to mention that there was a significant increase in spending after HoT is announced.. Ergo.. Players were Excited about this game and it's first expansion. While Q1 2014 does show more revenue than Q3 2013, it also represents a drop of 8413 MKW from Q4 2013. Sure, there have been fluctuations, as I said. However, looking at the revenue numbers from Q1 13 (likely the first quarter without heavy game sales) and Q3 15 (the last pre-HoT quarter), revenue fell from 36,382 MKW to 20,699 MKW. The only significant spike there is Q4 13 (likely holiday revenue). That's the overall trend, and it was indeed down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > > > > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" > > > > Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh > > > > Its more like "Having that sexy kitten summer body is within your reach, you just dont want to do what is necessary" and even then learning the raids takes less effort. > > It's all the same really.. Being Rich, being Sexy.. being a World Star Athlete, all within reach for you.. you just don't want to do what is necessary.. it's all the same level of hyperbole. But none reaches this lvl of strawmanning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Also the poor sales shown in the Qs had hardly anything to do withthe first legendary armor being in raids or raids themselves. Truth be told Anet started off the expac by leaving a stigma in the minds of players that didnt raid during the content drough. That had as an effect unecessary hate to be directed to the one functional team thanks to the incompetence or poor planning of other teams/company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > After launch, revenue fluctuated through 2013, but the overall trend is down (with a spike up in the 2013 holiday 4th quarter). > > > > No, go back and look at your numbers, you will see that Q1-2014 is better then Q3-2013, so, there was not an overall decline, the numbers were up and down with dips and spikes, not to mention that there was a significant increase in spending after HoT is announced.. Ergo.. Players were Excited about this game and it's first expansion. > > While Q1 2014 does show more revenue than Q3 2013, it also represents a drop of 8413 MKW from Q4 2013. Sure, there have been fluctuations, as I said. However, looking at the revenue numbers from Q1 13 (likely the first quarter without heavy game sales) and Q3 15 (the last pre-HoT quarter), revenue fell from 36,382 MKW to 20,699 MKW. The only significant spike there is Q4 13 (likely holiday revenue). That's the overall trend, and it was indeed down. Well for starters you are dismissing spikes, rises and dips, which is just a ploy on try and warp the numbers to match your theory, or put another way, you are trying to force the numbers to mean what you want them to mean as opposed to taking them as the facts they are. The Fact is, that the numbers were moving up and down, with no direct trend. There were spikes and dips, prior to HoT sales. After HoT, there was no spikes at all, just a dead ended decline. In fact, if you want to look at Trends, (which you have been trying to dismiss) you see that Post HoT there were _NO Holiday Sales_, just a gradual flat decline. Prior to HoT, Q1 always higher then Q4, Hence the "Spikes" that we talk about, with Q1-2016 being an expected exception due to Expansion Pre-sales with all the extra offerings, so if people planned to do a holiday gift, they would have Pre-ordered anyway.. But Q1-2017, sets the grim stage, is the Holiday Sales, and it is the same flat lined dead decline. Anyone in a business can tell you that is not a good sign. Now, numbers don't lie, and these numbers show clear as day that something happened after HoT, that really hurt the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > > > > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > > > > > > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" > > > > > > Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh > > > > > > Its more like "Having that sexy kitten summer body is within your reach, you just dont want to do what is necessary" and even then learning the raids takes less effort. > > > > It's all the same really.. Being Rich, being Sexy.. being a World Star Athlete, all within reach for you.. you just don't want to do what is necessary.. it's all the same level of hyperbole. > > But none reaches this lvl of strawmanning. Maybe you think that way simply because you are not willing to do what is needed to make the money? if you were, you would not think that way... you also would not be wasting away your life getting gud at games. Or maybe you're simply not gud enough.. Look at Ninja making around 100K a month playing games, and yah.. he's not doing PvE scripted raids thinking that is where the challenge is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > @"Alehin.3746" said: > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > Irrelevant what else is out there.. if I wanted the Armor that is what I would need to do.. so either I do without.. which is a great way to bleed off players, or I am forced to do content I may hate.. another great way to bleed players. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So.. well.. Anet loses. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess no one cares about that as long as you get your loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's not that no one cares, it's that it's not possible for Anet to sit there and try and claw back players on the fringe of leaving the game anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That was why they made raids to start with.. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If getting Leg gear is the ONLY thing you have to play for and you don't like the ways you play to get it ... you SHOULD leave the game. If Leg Gear is the only thing you are playing for, then the game doesn't have much to offer you in the first place anyways. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aww pumpkin.. it's not about getting the gear.. it's about being able to get the gear. Keeping it within my reach. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and... well.. it seems many have taken your advice about jumping ship. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the end.. Anet still will lose.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and I'll say it again.. You don't care, as long as your get your shinies, if you cared, you would feel that keeping your precious loot special was not worth hurting the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > IT IS withing your reach tho. You just don't wanna do what is necessary and that's not the game's fault. > > > > > > > > > > That is like saying "Being a Billionaire is within your reach, you just don't want to do what is necessary" > > > > > > > > Compairing getting decent at a video game to making billions.... sigh > > > > > > > > Its more like "Having that sexy kitten summer body is within your reach, you just dont want to do what is necessary" and even then learning the raids takes less effort. > > > > > > It's all the same really.. Being Rich, being Sexy.. being a World Star Athlete, all within reach for you.. you just don't want to do what is necessary.. it's all the same level of hyperbole. > > > > But none reaches this lvl of strawmanning. > > Maybe you think that way simply because you are not willing to do what is needed to make the money? if you were, you would not think that way... you also would not be wasting away your life getting gud at games. > > Or maybe you're simply not gud enough.. Look at Ninja making around 100K a month playing games, and yah.. he's not doing PvE scripted raids thinking that is where the challenge is. Im sorry that my fun is not your fun. But can you please not devalue my fun because "you just dont want to do whats necessary" to get a shiny that hardly impacts your gameplay? And in order to complete, get rewarded, and have fun in the raids of gw2 i need 1/10th of ninja's ability to play fortnite well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > > > > After launch, revenue fluctuated through 2013, but the overall trend is down (with a spike up in the 2013 holiday 4th quarter). > > > > > > No, go back and look at your numbers, you will see that Q1-2014 is better then Q3-2013, so, there was not an overall decline, the numbers were up and down with dips and spikes, not to mention that there was a significant increase in spending after HoT is announced.. Ergo.. Players were Excited about this game and it's first expansion. > > > > While Q1 2014 does show more revenue than Q3 2013, it also represents a drop of 8413 MKW from Q4 2013. Sure, there have been fluctuations, as I said. However, looking at the revenue numbers from Q1 13 (likely the first quarter without heavy game sales) and Q3 15 (the last pre-HoT quarter), revenue fell from 36,382 MKW to 20,699 MKW. The only significant spike there is Q4 13 (likely holiday revenue). That's the overall trend, and it was indeed down. > > Well for starters you are dismissing spikes, rises and dips, which is just a ploy on try and warp the numbers to match your theory, or put another way, you are trying to force the numbers to mean what you want them to mean as opposed to taking them as the facts they are. > > The Fact is, that the numbers were moving up and down, with no direct trend. There were spikes and dips, prior to HoT sales. > > After HoT, there was no spikes at all, just a dead ended decline. > > In fact, if you want to look at Trends, (which you have been trying to dismiss) you see that Post HoT there were _NO Holiday Sales_, just a gradual flat decline. Prior to HoT, Q1 always higher then Q4, Hence the "Spikes" that we talk about, with Q1-2016 being an expected exception due to Expansion Pre-sales with all the extra offerings, so if people planned to do a holiday gift, they would have Pre-ordered anyway.. > > But Q1-2017, sets the grim stage, is the Holiday Sales, and it is the same flat lined dead decline. > > Anyone in a business can tell you that is not a good sign. > > Now, numbers don't lie, and these numbers show clear as day that something happened after HoT, that really hurt the game. > Yeah i wonder what :thinking: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assic.2746 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > Facts > > GUILD WARS 2 QUARTERLY REVENUE in MKW > > Q3 2012 58,449 > Q4 2012 119.013 > Q1 2013 36,382 > Q2 2013 28,889 > Q3 2013 24,481 > Q4 2013 33,555 > Q1 2014 25,142 > Q2 2014 22,214 > Q3 2014 19,686 > Q4 2014 19,272 > Q1 2015 20,026 Hot announce > Q2 2015 22,470 > Q3 2015 20,699 > Q4 2015 37,331 Hot release > Q1 2016 30,557 > Q2 2016 15,894 > Q3 2016 15,315 > Q4 2016 14,870 > Q1 2017 14,226 > Q2 2017 13,557 > Q3 2017 20,145 > Q4 2017 34,803 > > Commentary > > After launch, revenue fluctuated through 2013, but the overall trend is down (with a spike up in the 2013 holiday 4th quarter). Once into 2014, the downward trend continues, then plateaus into 2015 with the HoT announcement, leading to increased revenue from box sales in Q4 (NCSoft stated that store revenue was "stable" in the Q4 15 report. Then, whoa! There is a significant drop in Q2 16, leading into a more gradual decline through Q2 17. Q3 and Q4 17 show increased revenue, with PoF boxes and mount skins as likely explanations. > > So, what was going on around the time of the Q2 16 drop? During that period, there were complaints about raids, almost all being that a raid wing was added in March, but _other_ PvE saw only festivals, a revamped Shatterer event and in April 2016, the Hot revision. This period began to be referred to as a "content drought." There was also a lot of disaffection with HoT. There were a lot of complaints about the price point and the inclusion of the base game. There were also complaints about the nature of HoT. Legendary Armor was just a promise for most of the decline period, so most of the discussion of it was impatience for its release. Iirc, disaffection over L. Armor gained momentum only after the announcement that there would be no other Legendary Armor skins. > > It is certainly difficult to know who stopped spending in the store and why. However, as much as some people may have left the game because they were not going to be able to get Envoy Armor, there are other more likely causes. The hot topics at the time were the content drought and unhappiness with HoT, not Envoy Armor or lack of paths to other Legendary items. Laying the decline in revenue at the feet of the decision to limit paths to L. Items is at best a stretch. We exactly know what caused that drop in earnings. **We had over a 6 months content drought.** Keep blaming raids for everything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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