Can we have a Dervish playable class?

[Archdevil.1748]

Dear Anet, thanks for the new content. The new episode is epic and the new map is great. My jaw dropped when I fought a Dervish. I have a Dervish in GW1 made it a few months ago. Can we please have it as a playable class? I am ready to RIP all my other alts. PLEASE?!

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

If they give Ritualist too, please.

I haven't played GW1, but I want Ritualists.

[mercury ranique.2170]

Something that was needed a lot in the run towards the launch of the game, was managing expectations about classes. Still many people where very dissapointed. GW2 is a very different game and the class will be significant different if they do so.

 

Also cause they allready used mechanics and skills in other classes or mechanics. Like the avatar of balthazar (in story instances of the original game) or chilling victory as a master trait for the Reaper.

[Tenrai Senshi.2017]

The only issue with a Dervish class is that the entire theme of a Dervish is that they evoke the power of human gods. So for other races besides humans, it wouldn't fit so well. Asura believe in the Eternal Alchemy, Sylvari in the Dream or Nightmare, Norns in the spirits, and Charr... well, I think they believe in killing stuff that annoys them so yeah.

 

One way I could see this being implemented, is if they had unique race specific elite specializations, that have more of a focus on racial skills and that don't tie into a particular class. So for humans it could be Dervish, allowing you to evoke the power of different gods with a set of unique utility skills. For Asura, it could be a Golemancer, which allows you to have and customize your own golem (I always found it strange that other major Asura in the story have a golem sidekick but not our player character). For Sylvari it could be something related to the Dream. For Charr it could be related to their warbands (though we already have the Renegade elite spec) and for Norns it could be related to the spirits and their spirit animal forms.

 

The main issue with this idea is that it would open a can of worms when it comes to game balance because you'd have to account for how each racial specialization would integrate with each various class, and every balance update would potentially introduce new unforeseen synergies or bugs. I could see it as a "open world PvE only" sort of deal, so the impact of balance becomes somewhat less important, but then it becomes questionable whether it's worth the effort to implement if it can't be used in all game modes or content.

 

The one other possibility that might work is if you implement it as an elite spec for the Revenant. In that case, you could be channeling a well known Dervish character from Tyria's past, and thus get access to Dervish skills through that character in a way that is lore friendly (I.E. not necessarily because your player character believes in the human gods, but because he/she is channeling the power of someone that does).

[Shirlias.8104]

We won't.

Only specializations.

[Dashiva.6149]

I hold hope that we get Dervish as a Elite specialization for Guardians at some point in the future, perhaps with staff as the elite weapon (new set of staff skills focused on melee).

[Archdevil.1748]

Have not thought about and elite spec. Yes this is reasonable :) Anet can we have a Dervish Elite spec please ?:)

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

The thing about dervishes is that pretty much their entire thing doesn't work well in GW2.

 

The revenant is already doing a race-neutral version of their thing, enchantments aren't a thing in GW2, and greatswords (plus revenant/daredevil staff) occupy the "two-handed DPS weapon" niche now (on top of melee weapons cleaving by default).

[Erasculio.2914]

I think dervishes could work in Guild Wars 2. Keep in mind that no profession has been transported exactly as they were from the original game - mesmers are very different between both games, rangers in the original Guild Wars could only use bows, elementalists didn't have attunements, and so on. Bringing back dervishes and paragons would require adaptations, just like the professions we already have.

 

IMO, there really isn't an issue with other races using the power of the human gods. In the Guild Wars 2 universe, it isn't really about faith - everyone knows those entities exist. Channeling their power does not require worshipping them, or even thinking of them as gods as opposed to just powerful beings whose magic can be used for one's own purposes.

 

If we were to have dervishes, one of their unique mechanics should be enchantments. We would then be able to make something more mechanically similar to what we had in the original Guild Wars, while allowing for a bigger variety of effects than the limited range of boons we have today, while also avoiding the issue of removing boons that are almost required for efficient gameplay (like those 25 stacks of might people love so much).

[Kreed.2768]

The Dervish's main themes are already present in other classes and elite specs. The scythe we see in the Reaper's shroud, and the Revenant channels legendary figures of the past instead of godly avatars to lift the restrictions the latter has by being tied to the human race.

 

So yeah... I don't know if there's enough left to create an elite spec that is unique enough to be worth making.

[Tachenon.5270]


And don't forget the dervish dance!

[Dashiva.6149]

So if we try to break down what we would want from a Gw2 Dervish (most likely as a specialization), what would the expectations be?

* Armor Class: In Gw2 I would think either Medium or Heavy armor would be a great fit, and of the current classes I think the Dervish has most overlapping themes with either the Thief (agilitybased combat) or the Guardian (holy warriors). However, seeing as we already have Daredevil, let's go with the Guardian. So heavy armor would get Hood and Robes as unique skins.

* Weapon: The signature weapon Scythe of course, most likely as a staff since we wont get new weapons as far as I know. I would expect skills that inflict conditions (majorly bleeds), and skills that provides proactive defenses (deflections, retaliation, aegis). A cool feature I would like see introduced would be the Deep Wounds condition from GW1.

* Unique mechanic: A more tricky question for sure. I like what they did with the Mesmer in converting hexes to phantasms, but I am not so sure enchantments has as elegant of a solution. We can't directly copy the Herald, and reversing it (auras that spreads conditions instead of boons) doesn't feel appealing to me. I kinda want the unique mechanic be focused on Earth and Wind Prayers (from the GW1 attributes), raising defenses and slowing opponents respectively. Perhaps abilities that excels at cleansing conditions, as opposed to Spellbreaker that removes boons?

 

Just thinking aloud.

[Tekoneiric.6817]

I wonder how long they can keep adding new elite specialization before they have to revamp the system entirely. Adding new professions would be extremely complicated.

[Amanda Whitemoon.6173]

i just played aroudn with a revenant using staff and Arcane Outfit and using the herald it kinda feelas like a dervish too. just difficult to get a scythe skin thats not between 230 and 2000 gold:P

[Griever.8150]

> @"Tenrai Senshi.2017" said:

> Charr... well, I think they believe in killing stuff that annoys them so yeah.

 

"CHARRS NEED NO GOD !"

 

> @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> If they give Ritualist too, please.

> I haven't played GW1, but I want Ritualists.

 

I love the idea behind the ritualist too but Revenants basically took their spot, specially Renegade :/.

[Thornwolf.9721]

fuse the dervish and the ritualist together and call it the occultist.

Make it able to choose what weight class its armor will be, so that way it wont unbalance the game. Armor is only cosmetic in retro-spec anyhow so it does not matter, they could make it work. We all know at any rate that specs wont be a seller going forward because its to be expected, you want people to buy the expansion? Give them something they want, but wont expect... a new class would be just that.

[Lonami.2987]

I feel like the revenant was a huge missed opportunity to bring a fusion of monk, ritualist, and dervish into GW2. There's no going back now, and I don't think we will or should get new professions in the future.

 

The only way to bring the dervish back is:

 

* Elementalist elite specialization. The gods would be replaced by elements, and you would transform into the djinn of your current attunement instead. Would use the scythe as a new 2h weapon type. GW1's wind and earth prayers would be upgraded to include the other elements as well.

* Redesign the revenant completely, integrating dervish gameplay into a new Varesh legend, which would be replacing Mallyx. Core revenant would be able to use scythe too.

 

As for the ritualist, it would be a pretty good revenant elite specialization, using a new mechanic for spirits, ashes, or whatever. Paragon should be a guardian elite specialization, and Assassin a thief elite specialization, with changes, of course.

[Orpheal.8263]

another thread of this type.. really they rise up like mushrooms here ...

 

The only way I'd personally ever support the return of that GW1 stuff, is for Dervish and Paragon under the restriction, that these return only as Elite Specs and with complete redesigns to fit into the GW2 game design - this includes also better fitting terms (names) cause Dervish and Paragon are now already used for nostalgic enemy terms in LW Season 4 in Istan - it would be weird if they add first Dervs and paragons and make them enemies this time and at the next step they becom playable specs and we literally begin to fight against ourselves...

The GW1 Expansion Classes should return as Elite Specs with new names, new gameplay elements that are unique and give them a reason for their existance.

 

Assassin should return as **Bladedancer Elite Specialization of the Thief**, introducing for them Offhand Swords and as new Gameplay Element Combat Stances and new utility Skill Type Stances as also the unique ability to wield 3 Weapon Sets as the 3rd Weapon Set is a build in Chakram Weapon Skill Set which doesn't require the introduction of Chakrams as new Weapon Type, its just a Bladedancer related integrated feature.

Combat Stances would allow Bladedancers to be played more tactically, by allowign them based on their combat stance to change the effects of their Weapon Skills and the Effects of their Stance Skills between Offensive Effects, Defensive Effects and Supportive Effects with that they can provide more and better Group Support, than the Base Thief and have throigh this more variation, than just only Stealth and Venoms.

 

Ritualist should return as **Occultist Elite Specialization for the Necromancer**. The Scourge should get completely redesigned from sratch for this and become less ritu gameplay like with its sand shades, give them instead of Sand Shades miore Condition Gameplay with the introction of a scourge unique new condition - Disease!! because thats what a pestbringer like them should spread amogn the battlefields, and thats also like this spec shoudl get renamed into, into the 1:1 same way, how you called scourge in German, because thne it would fit by its name also to its design intent tp spread plague like a pest and bring diseases to everyone that gets in touch with them.

 

The Occultist as Necromancer Elite Spec that should bring back basically the Ritualist would come with the Spear as new weapon using it on land as an more offensive medium weapon, than the staff,, which returns with gameplay mechanics like Ash Urns as their unique own form of environmental weapons that work similar, but also in their own way differently, than conjured weapons by providing aoE effects, while you hold them, instead of changing your weapon skills and having aoe effects, when you put them down somewhere like basically a banner.

They let return Weapon Spells, and introduce also Armor Spells, which are unremovable buffs that change for the affected weapon temporarely their weapon skill effects in regard of Weapon Spells and they change in regard of Armor Spells the defensive gameplay elements of a character, like Dodge rolls, like the effects of Rune Sets, like Blocks, like the Effects of Boons itself get basically affected while having an Armor Spell on you, like protecting Boons from being corrupted, stripped, stolen ect. or changing a boon by makign it tempoorarely able to stack higher than normal, or simply boostign the efficiency of a boon temporarely.

but thats not everything, as occultists they brign back as utility Skills their Rituals. When you prform a ritual, you will summon an enchained spirit, which is a soul which neither inthe mists yet, but also not fully yet out of the world of the living - a restless soul as to speak which embodies all kinds of forms of negative, as like positive EMOTIONS, like Hatred, like Greed, like Love, like Sorrow and so on, or simply Pain/Agony. Emotions that the occultist can manifest with the help of its rituals tobbrign them to eiother help them or to turn them agaisnt their enemies in various forms.

They will have the Demonic Veil, which is a special form of veil mechanic this time, that allows the occiltist, of they havre performed enough rituals, to transform themself into Half Demons, what will temporarely boost their stats, makes them move alot faster, like basically beign in permanent Super Speed in this form, as long you can keep this form up, as in this form, you will defenitely lose the form after some time. you can't peramently keep it it in combatt unlike a reaper to protect your real health as you will definetely lose in this form much faster your soul force, than you will gain new.

 

The Dervish would return as **Mystic as an Guardian Elite Spec**, which comes with the speciality, that with this spec the guardian will be allowed to wear Medium Armor, what will give your for losing defense power some unique spec based features as compensation for losing some tankiness.

The Spec will introduce as feature Enchantments and Charms as Utility Skill, which will do have Enchantments as Effects,

Enchantments will be working like similar Boons, just only, that they can be kept up permanently for the cost of Endurance Regeneration.

So more Enchantments you keep up permanently, so more it will reduce your Endurance Regenration quickly to th point, that it fadster and faster will go to 0.

if if reaches 0 , all Enchantments wll immediately end.

Instead of God Avatars will the Mystic use instead virtue based "Personifications", which is somerthing that can work with all races and isnt bonded to human lore only.

Personifications are practically Mystic Avatars, spiritual mindforms that will take you over and possess your body to embody your faith as their vessel.

A Personification is a much more radiant expression of your faith. For disbelievers they might seem like more of a curse, cause they take your free will, but therefore you gain as their vessel powers, beyond your imagination. As weapon, the Mystic is using Daggers.

 

The Paragon would return as **Minstrel, as a Mesmer Elite Spec**, which comes with the speciality to allow Mesmers to use Medium Armor, They come with the Shortbow (Harp Skin) as Weapon, as also a much stronger focus on Echoes, Chants and Songs/Hymns that come together with a Rhythm System that replaces Shatters and creates instead of Clonnes now Melodies. Minstrels are the Paragons of inspiration, where they are, will change the mood of your allies to your favor by the help of their chants, songs.

They motivate their allies through their melodies that they sing and the echoing rhythm of their chants helps you to repeat whatever you did, as if you did it the first time full of inspiration just like a moment ago ...

This elite spec would finally combine mesmer and what anet tried to make with them in GW1 (Wannabe Bards) now into GW2 and would give us with the Minstral finalyl some kind of real working inspirational bard that motivates his allies, while providign with the Shortbow a new good alternative ranged weapon over the Staff and Greatsword that can eventualyl work like some kind of hybrid between Staff and Greastsword in regard of Power/Condi Gameplay

 

That would be in my honet opinion the most optimal solution, to finalyl end this endless whining about Derv and Paragon, while providing the game more build diversity through some fitting new Elite Specs for those four mentioned classes that make the most sense to be used for those old GW1 classes as their spiritual successsor classes to build upon them these Elite Specs to let those old GW1 classes return in a way, that they fit into GW2s gameplay and combat system design.

[ImTasty.2163]

> @"Tenrai Senshi.2017" said:

> The only issue with a Dervish class is that the entire theme of a Dervish is that they evoke the power of human gods. So for other races besides humans, it wouldn't fit so well. Asura believe in the Eternal Alchemy, Sylvari in the Dream or Nightmare, Norns in the spirits, and Charr... well, I think they believe in killing stuff that annoys them so yeah.

>

> One way I could see this being implemented, is if they had unique race specific elite specializations, that have more of a focus on racial skills and that don't tie into a particular class. So for humans it could be Dervish, allowing you to evoke the power of different gods with a set of unique utility skills. For Asura, it could be a Golemancer, which allows you to have and customize your own golem (I always found it strange that other major Asura in the story have a golem sidekick but not our player character). For Sylvari it could be something related to the Dream. For Charr it could be related to their warbands (though we already have the Renegade elite spec) and for Norns it could be related to the spirits and their spirit animal forms.

>

> The main issue with this idea is that it would open a can of worms when it comes to game balance because you'd have to account for how each racial specialization would integrate with each various class, and every balance update would potentially introduce new unforeseen synergies or bugs. I could see it as a "open world PvE only" sort of deal, so the impact of balance becomes somewhat less important, but then it becomes questionable whether it's worth the effort to implement if it can't be used in all game modes or content.

>

> The one other possibility that might work is if you implement it as an elite spec for the Revenant. In that case, you could be channeling a well known Dervish character from Tyria's past, and thus get access to Dervish skills through that character in a way that is lore friendly (I.E. not necessarily because your player character believes in the human gods, but because he/she is channeling the power of someone that does).

 

Well it's not really a case that the other races don't believe in the Human Gods. I mean we just had an expansion that involved killing one of them plus both a Charr and Silvari have seen Kormir in person. It's just that they don't see them as their gods but more of powerful magical beings.

 

We really could have a Charr using something like Avatar of Balth because they are just channeling the magical energies of that God. A great example of this is a personal story mission if you joined the priory. The mission is called The Ghost Rite. In this you become an avatar of Balth regardless of your race.

 

A modern day Dervish can just be one that has learned how to naturally harness the magic given off by the Human gods.

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

> @"Amanda Whitemoon.6173" said:

> i just played aroudn with a revenant using staff and Arcane Outfit and using the herald it kinda feelas like a dervish too. just difficult to get a scythe skin thats not between 230 and 2000 gold:P

Final Rest is relatively cheap.

[Lancaeron.1524]

> @Griever.8150 said:

> > @"Tenrai Senshi.2017" said:

> > Charr... well, I think they believe in killing stuff that annoys them so yeah.

>

> "CHARRS NEED NO GOD !"

>

> > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > If they give Ritualist too, please.

> > I haven't played GW1, but I want Ritualists.

>

> I love the idea behind the ritualist too but Revenants basically took their spot, specially Renegade :/.

 

Actually, Engineers took the role of Ritualists. As spirits are to Ritualists, turrets are to Engineers.

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

> @Lancaeron.1524 said:

> > @Griever.8150 said:

> > > @"Tenrai Senshi.2017" said:

> > > Charr... well, I think they believe in killing stuff that annoys them so yeah.

> >

> > "CHARRS NEED NO GOD !"

> >

> > > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > > If they give Ritualist too, please.

> > > I haven't played GW1, but I want Ritualists.

> >

> > I love the idea behind the ritualist too but Revenants basically took their spot, specially Renegade :/.

>

> Actually, Engineers took the role of Ritualists. As spirits are to Ritualists, turrets are to Engineers.

 

If I have to pick from a spirit or a turret....

 

Hell I'll take a damn Necro shade or Flesh Wurm than a turret.

GIVE ME RITUALIST!

[Zeivu.3615]

> @Lancaeron.1524 said:

> > @Griever.8150 said:

> > > @"Tenrai Senshi.2017" said:

> > > Charr... well, I think they believe in killing stuff that annoys them so yeah.

> >

> > "CHARRS NEED NO GOD !"

> >

> > > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > > If they give Ritualist too, please.

> > > I haven't played GW1, but I want Ritualists.

> >

> > I love the idea behind the ritualist too but Revenants basically took their spot, specially Renegade :/.

>

> Actually, Engineers took the role of Ritualists. As spirits are to Ritualists, turrets are to Engineers.

 

They only take the spirit spam aspect from a mechanical perspective. As for a concept perspective, renegade still has it by summoning the warbands' spirits in combat. Channeling Magic, weapon spells, and item spell skills still has a chance to grow with a Revenant's elite specialization.

 

I still think we have room for a dervish, but I don't see the scythes as a distinct weapon type ever coming back, now that we have greatswords and staffs for combat usage. Is it possible that an elite specialization can be programmed to change the weapon skills to an alternate set? Such a programming ability would open so much more possibilities in the future for elite specs since we cannot use certain weapons without having the elite enabled.

[Edelweiss.4261]

> @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > @Lancaeron.1524 said:

> > > @Griever.8150 said:

> > > ...

> > > I love the idea behind the ritualist too but Revenants basically took their spot, specially Renegade :/.

> >

> > Actually, Engineers took the role of Ritualists. As spirits are to Ritualists, turrets are to Engineers.

>

> If I have to pick from a spirit or a turret....

>

> Hell I'll take a kitten Necro shade or Flesh Wurm than a turret.

> GIVE ME RITUALIST!

 

So give engineers or rangers an elite spec that uses scepter(as opposed to the wand) and uses spirits that work like kits/turrets. Ritualists seem like the easiest of the three to implement in the current system.

We could perhaps work an elite spec for warriors out of paragon. We could have them be able to use staves for skills 1-3 as opposed to the usual 1-5 while also adding focus 4-5. They'd wield staves like spears and...this just makes me want spears. I'd suggest an added effect, but that would feel as unsatisfying as calling the reaper a dervish. Adding alternate cosmetic versions of all staves would seem a bit unrealistic to me. Could we map current staves to current spears? This would still require new designs where staves don't have spear equivalents and also require a (probably)nontrivial amount of animation work. It's still a stretch, though.

Now comes my favorite, the dervish. We have a start in the reaper and the revenant, but they don't quite hit all of the notes. The easiest path is to follow the devs previous direction, dividing the dervish. The reaper has the scythe of the dervish, but it more fits the grim reaper imagery than the dervish.

The revenant could be given an elite spec that uses a greatsword(similar to the reaper) and, thematically, aligns with the god-channeling aspect of the dervish. Instead of channeling the gods, they would channel primal energy or, potentially, the power of the elder dragons. The rational behind this would be that the gods acted kind of like faucets. They tamed the power and passed it to the dervishes. This new specialization would have to either be a rarity that can handle raw power that many can't or subvert the power of the elder dragons(perhaps the sylvari discover this ability in mordremoths absence).

The final piece would be giving the elementalist a greatsword/scythe. This would cover the dervish's enhancements/prayers. This elite spec would be a beacon of sorts. A vessel for an overwhelming amount of raw elemental magic. I think requiring a commitment to a single element each battle would fit thematically. These could work similarly to mantras, but be called steps or techniques. Just a personal style that I think could be interesting would be to set it up as 3-sequence techniques. This would give 27 possible sequences each with a tiny alteration(eg. fast-heavy-wide, fast-fast-fast, heavy-heavy-fast). Fast could increase the intensity/duration of any conditions of the hit and subsequent strikes in the sequence. Heavy could increase the base damage of itself and subsequent strikes in the sequence. Wide could increase the cleave aoe/max enemies hit of itself/subsequent strikes in the sequence. I would like to play that.

[Omg its Tina.4872]

I would love to play a Dervish!