Do raids need easy/normal/hard difficulty mode? [merged]

[Feanor.2358]

> @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > And I see no reason why Ohoni's way of thinking should be encouraged. So have we reached an impasse?

>

> the compromise seems obvious to me, no envoy gear for easy mode, but a different legendary skin, that takes proportionally longer the fram than existing raids, along line of wvw and pvp. I think Ohni is wrong, both on principle and on precedence.

 

Yeah, and I agree with this compromise. It is the obvious, sensible solution. And as far as I can tell, there's only one person here objecting to it.

[Ohoni.6057]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > But they will never make another Legendary set, so that point is moot.

> >

>

> For old content? Yes that's probably true. But for future content? Why wouldn't they make more Legendary Armor sets?

> Maybe we'll need to wait until all trinkets get their Legendary version first, but new Legendary armor shouldn't be completely out of the question.

 

I believe there's a quote floating around that it's too much work.

 

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> That was _just_ Nostalrius that had over a million active accounts (defined as having logged in within the past week).

 

You still haven't provided any sources for your numbers. The best I can find is [this article](https://www.dkpminus.com/blog/estimated-1-3-million-people-playing-wow-private-servers/) which claims 1.3 million *total* private server players. I know that you *want* it to be the case that more players prefer vanilla WoW to current WoW, I'm just not seeing any actual data to back that claim up.

 

 

 

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> I believe there's a quote floating around that it's too much work.

 

Making an expansion is also too much work. It's too much work to make a **new** skin for **old** content. But I refuse to believe that we won't ever get another PVE Legendary Armor skin from future content. The PVP and WVW legendary armors are core content, available to all expansions, and core owners, meaning getting another Legendary Armor set from PVP or WVW is highly unlikely.

On the other hand, Envoy Armor is specifically tied to Heart of Thorns, another version will be needed at some time, maybe one that is not tied to an expansion at all.

Like https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/41758/fractal-legendary-armor/p1 or https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/41904/hellfire-radiant-sets-ability-to-turn-into-legendary something that doesn't involve expansions and is permanent in the game.

[Ohoni.6057]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> Making an expansion is also too much work. It's too much work to make a new skin for old content. But I refuse to believe that we won't ever get another PVE Legendary Armor skin from future content.

 

I agree with you that we *should,* but they said what they said, and until that changes, I'm pessimistic. I don't take "well they can just make a PvE Legendary armor" as a valid solution if the devs have said that's off the table. It would be a lot harder to make a new Legendary armor skin than to make an easy mode raid that allows access to the existing one.

 

And if they do, Fractals is obviously not the way to do it, that would be like having the only place to get Legendary armor being in Ranked PvP *or* in Unranked, your choice which you preferred.

 

As for the AP-based ones, getting enough AP to just get the baseline versions completed is pretty tricky these days, particularly without doing much WvW or PvP or Fractals or Raids. Not to mention that the based versions of those armors are very lucky, so they wouldn't make reasonable substitutes for Envoy armor. This is where we tend to run into the "skins are not fungible" problem.

 

 

[nia.4725]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > I believe there's a quote floating around that it's too much work.

>

> Making an expansion is also too much work. It's too much work to make a **new** skin for **old** content. But I refuse to believe that we won't ever get another PVE Legendary Armor skin from future content. The PVP and WVW legendary armors are core content, available to all expansions, and core owners, meaning getting another Legendary Armor set from PVP or WVW is highly unlikely.

> On the other hand, Envoy Armor is specifically tied to Heart of Thorns, another version will be needed at some time, maybe one that is not tied to an expansion at all.

> Like https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/41758/fractal-legendary-armor/p1 or https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/41904/hellfire-radiant-sets-ability-to-turn-into-legendary something that doesn't involve expansions and is permanent in the game.

 

Indeed the devs said they don't plan on creating a new legendary armor anytime soon. It was too much work and had too many issues. I don't think they'll do a full fx armor again. Maybe a normal skin as legendary with shades, colors and blabla, but with mobile parts like the Envoy? I don't think so.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> I agree with you that we *should,* but they said what they said, and until that changes, I'm pessimistic. I don't take "well they can just make a PvE Legendary armor" as a valid solution if the devs have said that's off the table. It would be a lot harder to make a new Legendary armor skin than to make an easy mode raid that allows access to the existing one.

>

 

I can only find this here:

It's a 1 year old comment and it makes sense that at the time they had no plans to release any more Legendary Armor skins, they just released their first one!

 

Fractals and AP are methods that can work as precursors for Legendary Armor in the core game, without involving much expansion content, fractals are available for everyone and you can get 30k AP without touching the expansions, or at the very least pick and choose which expansion to play and for how long, instead of tying the armor to actual expansion meta events. The AP version has the added benefit of being ready skin-wise AND having the acquisition method ready, meaning there is very little, if any, work involved in making those Legendary. But really my main reason for saying Fractals and AP is to make it core content, and not something tied to an expansion like the Envoy Armor.

[Ohoni.6057]

> @"nia.4725" said:

> Indeed the devs said they don't plan on creating a new legendary armor anytime soon. It was too much work and had too many issues. I don't think they'll do a full fx armor again. Maybe a normal skin as legendary with shades, colors and blabla, but with mobile parts like the Envoy? I don't think so.

 

Right, which obviously wouldn't be an appropriate substitute. they can create new armors all they like, but they also need to make Envoy armor available to more players.

 

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

>It's a 1 year old comment and it makes sense that at the time they had no plans to release any more Legendary Armor skins, they just released their first one!

 

I think there's a more specific quote than that, but I have no idea how to find it. Remain unconvinced, but just understand that this is where *I'M* coming from on the subject.

 

>Fractals and AP are methods that can work as precursors for Legendary Armor in the core game, without involving much expansion content, fractals are available for everyone and you can get 30k AP without touching the expansions,

 

Again, Fractals are more or less the same thing as Raids, it would be like if the only Legendary armor you could get could be earned from WvW Borderlands *or* from the Edge of the Mist, up to you. I don't mind the idea of Fractals getting their own armor at *some* point, but it should definitely not be viewed as an "alternative option to raiding."

 

As for AP, right now I'm sitting at 27,000, and I've done a lot of the stuff available. I haven't gotten any new AP rewards since PoF came out, and I remember it shocking me at the time since I hadn't gotten one before that for a year or more. They've gotten very stingy with AP. I think that the best option for a more open-world focused armor would involve either a lot of little things, stuff that really shouldn't be a burden on anyone who plays the game, but that take a while to do all the things, or that there should be several items you need to earn, but multiple paths that can take you to each, so that if you only have one expansion, or you just really dislike this or that area, you can get the piece you need in one of the other locations.

 

>The AP version has the added benefit of being ready skin-wise

 

But if they base them off the existing Radiant or Hellfire armors then they will be hideous, and again, not a reasonable substitute for Envoy.

 

>But really my main reason for saying Fractals and AP is to make it core content, and not something tied to an expansion like the Envoy Armor.

 

This is obviously a secondary consideration to me personally, but I really do think they should unlock raids from specific expansions. Make it so that if you have *any* expansion you can access *any* raid. No point fragmenting the community over time like that.

[NotOverlyCheesy.9427]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > > > @"Teamkiller.4315" said:

> > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > > > > > I think you've made perfectly clear that *you* don't, nothing more.

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm not going to allow you to get away with these extremely vague accusations. Moving the goalposts is where when you present an argument (or demand for proof), someone answers it, and you retroactively change said argument so the answer doesn't apply anymore. It's one of those fallacies that allows the user to (incorrectly) trick themselves into thinking they don't ever have to be wrong, which is what you're doing.

> > > > >

> > > > > It's also what you did. You said someone's suggestion had no pros, I listed some pros, you say they weren't pros, I saw that's because you're only thinking of yourself.

> > > > >

> > > > > And then you hit me with this:

> > > > >

> > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > > > > > > @"Teamkiller.4315" said:

> > > > > > > So ohoni, i understand those aren't positives for you but you're not the center of the world.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yes, and neither are you. Raiders already seem to be mostly fine with how raids are now, and if there are things they'd like changed, I mostly support that, but right now we're talking about the people for whom raids do NOT currently work, and making the mode more fun for *those* players. The changes I advocate for are in the service of that goal. I do not expect existing raiders to benefit significantly from those changes, but that is not the point of them.

> > > > >

> > > > > That's just drawing a big ??? for me there.

> > > >

> > > > The more I read these comments,the more I wonder if putting Legendary Envoy armor behind Raids was a good idea. Had they not thrown in the armor would many of us even be discussing any of this right now? Hypothetically speaking of course.

> > >

> > > It was a positively horrible idea to do what they did.. and it is about the only thing that is bringing in new blood to the game mode.

> > >

> > > Thankfully they had a bout of common sense and put in alternate paths to Legendary Armor.

> >

> > I honestly don’t think people wouldn’t be complaining nearly as much, if they only kept the current raid skins you find now like the pieces of Dhuum’s armor, Matthias staff etc.

> >

> > I mean Raids were designed to give people the challenge, no? That’s what the driving factor was, yes?

>

> Scripted Encounters can never truly maintain challenge, this is why trying to make PvE Content like Raids is a failure from the get go, unless the game is built from the group up to provide this kind of content, which GW2 was not. With any kind of scripted content, once the mechanics are figured out they become a grind.

>

> The only Challenge Raids bring is dealing with 9 other people who may or may not know what they are doing. So, in short, it does not provide challenge from the content itself, it just kills PUG's and breeds toxic elitism as everyone doing raids does not want challenge anymore they want a fast grind of content, speed clears and 100% completion.

>

> Now for me, I have always understood that skins were often content exclusive. That has been the nature of the game, but you know, games evolve, and if they can change one way, they can change another, so even trying to cling to exclusive skins for content is not really worthwhile at this point. But I don't really care that much for the skins as they are, so it's not an issue for me. In fact, I think they Evony is awfully ugly.

>

> With that said, it was a horrible idea to put legendary Armor behind Raids as this bottlenecks the the end game, moving away from several game styles that provided equal yet unique rewards, to One game Style that provided the best rewards. They started down this bad direction path with Fractals, but they at least had the awareness to put in alternate paths to Ascended as opposed to them just being drops in Fractals, but, that still gave fractals the best gear drops in the game, till they _sorta-kinda_ branched off on that.

>

> But this whole thing where they lock the best tier of gear behind a raid, that's going to hurt them, quite a bit to be honest, as while many players may not care about raids, in a game like GW2 a lot of them at least like the idea of being able to progress towards long goals like Legendary Armor and Gear, and with raid locking these things that kills the goal before they even start on it.

>

> Which will demoralize their casual base, and there is no question about this. As such, I would bet a large portion of the current community is already looking for another game to replace GW2 for them, but with poor lunches by games like Bless and many other really exciting MMO's being a few years off, no doubt most of the people already miffed about this have stopped spending money, hence the current change in how the store works, and have been looking at other games, with that said, BDO could have been beyond great if their UI was better.

>

> So, their move to put in this content, and then lock legendary armor behind it.. oh.. that's hurting them and it's gonna hurt them a lot more as time goes on.

 

Just because something is scripted doesn't mean it's easy. That's like saying playing flight of the bumblebee 300 bpm with a tuba flawlessly is easy because it's scripted.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> This is obviously a secondary consideration to me personally, but I really do think they should unlock raids from specific expansions. Make it so that if you have *any* expansion you can access *any* raid. No point fragmenting the community over time like that.

 

That's a possible solution although usually Raid story ties in with the expansion so I'm not sure how that would work. And besides having Raids locked behind expansions is an extra selling point for said expansion. I'm not sure what's their "end-game", once the game gets third expansion or fourth, it will become harder and harder to play older content, including the Heart of Thorns Raids. They must've something planned.

 

> Again, Fractals are more or less the same thing as Raids, it would be like if the only Legendary armor you could get could be earned from WvW Borderlands or from the Edge of the Mist, up to you. I don't mind the idea of Fractals getting their own armor at some point, but it should definitely not be viewed as an "alternative option to raiding."

 

Yes this is a mistake many make when I bring the subject of AP Legendary Armors (or others Fractal Armors) They should never be seen as "THE alternative option to raiding". It will simply be *another* option. it's supposed to be an extra path towards Legendary Armor, just like the PVP and WVW paths. Having a Fractal Legendary Armor and/or an AP Legendary Armor doesn't for some reason remove the possibility of having any other path towards getting Legendary Armor. I just believe that they are the easiest to implement to the game without upsetting the current game in any way and at the same time not being locked behind a specific expansion.

 

It's all about how much effort they are willing to put in tweaking soon-to-be 3 year old content and if it's worth from a marketing value, instead of spending that time/effort making new content for the next expansion that will probably earn them way more money.

[Ohoni.6057]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

>That's a possible solution although usually Raid story ties in with the expansion so I'm not sure how that would work.

 

I have it on good authority that "the raid story doesn't matter." :D

 

Seriously though, the story is *related* to a given expansion, but you don't absolutely need the one to engage the other. I mean, PoF's story flows directly out of LWs3, which flows directly out of HoT, so if you skip HoT and LWs3 entirely then you're going to skip some story. That's no different. If you want all the story you need all the expansions, but if you're already willing to skip an entire expansion of story, then it shouldn't be that disorienting to skip the expansion content into the raid content.

 

>And besides having Raids locked behind expansions is an extra selling point for said expansion.

 

True, but there are ways to balance that. For example, lock them to the new expansion for X amount of time, at minimum 3-6 months after the first raid comes out, perhaps even as long as "until the new expansion comes out." There's also the issue of raids requiring gliding, which is locked behind HoT, so that might need some solution, but there are plenty of ways to handle that.

 

>Yes this is a mistake many make when I bring the subject of AP Legendary Armors (or others Fractal Armors) They should never be seen as "THE alternative option to raiding". It will simply be another option.

 

Ok, but within the context of this thread, we *are* discussing alternatives to raiding, on the premise that "those who don't like raiding don't have to raid." That premise only becomes valid *if* there are genuine alternatives that would work as well for those players.

 

 

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> Ok, but within the context of this thread, we *are* discussing alternatives to raiding, on the premise that "those who don't like raiding don't have to raid." That premise only becomes valid *if* there are genuine alternatives that would work as well for those players.

>

 

If we are to stay entirely on topic, the thread is asking about tiers of difficulty in Raids, not about "How to get Legendary Armor without playing Raids" or even more specifically "How to get Envoy Armor without doing the actual Raids", those are side-discussions and frankly are outside the original topic:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/18677/do-raids-need-easy-normal-hard-difficulty-mode-merged/p1

 

Those that don't like raiding, don't have to Raid, if either of those suggested armors are added. Fractals and AP are not Raiding, nor require raiding, those that dislike Raiding could very well like those other methods, similar to the WVW and PVP versions. On the other hand, someone that actively dislikes Raiding, or instanced content in general, is more than likely to not be interested in an easier mode of the same Raid either.

[Ohoni.6057]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> If we are to stay entirely on topic, the thread is asking about tiers of difficulty in Raids, not about "How to get Legendary Armor without playing Raids" or even more specifically "How to get Envoy Armor without doing the actual Raids", those are side-discussions and frankly are outside the original topic:

 

Agreed, but my answer to that was that there should be an easy mode and it should be a method of earning those rewards. *Alternative* methods of earning those rewards become less and less related to the central thread the further you shift away from "Envoy armor as a raid reward." If we aren't even discussing them as a direct substitute to the raid method, I don't see how they're relevant at all.

 

>On the other hand, someone that actively dislikes Raiding, or instanced content in general, is more than likely to not be interested in an easier mode of the same Raid either.

 

Not true. The reasons that people dislike raiding in its current state have nothing to do with easy mode, because easy mode eliminates them. It's like asking someone

A:"Do you like ghost pepper buffalo wings?"

B:"No, they are way too spicy."

A:"So you can't possibly like mild buffalo wings either."

B:". . .That's not how any of this works."

[sigur.9453]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > If we are to stay entirely on topic, the thread is asking about tiers of difficulty in Raids, not about "How to get Legendary Armor without playing Raids" or even more specifically "How to get Envoy Armor without doing the actual Raids", those are side-discussions and frankly are outside the original topic:

>

> Agreed, but my answer to that was that there should be an easy mode and it should be a method of earning those rewards. *Alternative* methods of earning those rewards become less and less related to the central thread the further you shift away from "Envoy armor as a raid reward." If we aren't even discussing them as a direct substitute to the raid method, I don't see how they're relevant at all.

>

> >On the other hand, someone that actively dislikes Raiding, or instanced content in general, is more than likely to not be interested in an easier mode of the same Raid either.

>

> Not true. The reasons that people dislike raiding in its current state have nothing to do with easy mode, because easy mode eliminates them. It's like asking someone

> A:"Do you like ghost pepper buffalo wings?"

> B:"No, they are way too spicy."

> A:"So you can't possibly like mild buffalo wings either."

> B:". . .That's not how any of this works."

 

are we back to feeding the poor yet?

or is the ferrari off the table?

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> Not true. The reasons that people dislike raiding in its current state have nothing to do with easy mode, because easy mode eliminates them.

 

I think you don't understand why people dislike raiding. I don't care about what you say, but someone who is an actual open world player, and not one interested in the instanced parts of the game is much more "reliable" source of how those players think like.

You can find an actually informative post here:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/543876/#Comment_543876

 

And your example is silly, it's the opposite:

A: Do you like buffalo wings?

B: Nope

A: How about we spice them up instead?

B: Still no

 

Or

 

A: Do you like Chocolate?

B: No I'm allergic to it

A: What about black chocolate?

B: Still allergic...

 

Or

 

A: Do you like pets?

B: No I don't like pets

A: What about dogs?

B: Dogs are still pets...

[STIHL.2489]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We aren't talking about torphies though, we're talking about something you grind towards, Legendary armor.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So go ahead and grind it.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, I couldn't enjoy that. I'm trying to get them to add a method I could enjoy.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > I can't enjoy a Ferrari's price tag. Care to give me a hand persuading them to sell me a new one, warranty included, for about 10k?

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Sure.. what scale would like.. I can get you a 1:24 pretty cheap.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Got two of these. But unless you convince Ohoni to be happy with a screenshot of the UI icon of the Envoy instead of the actual set, your proposal doesn't really apply.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Well see.. technically Ohoni just wants the skin.. not the Legendary Armor itself. So that would be like buying a Ferrari Kit.. which is around 10K As irony would have it, so, you could have your _Ferrari_ for one tenth the cost of a real one , if you were willing to put it on some other car frame.. which Ohoni is willing to do.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > So.. what is your problem with letting them have that?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Technically, the skin is the only exclusive part you're getting. Everything else is obtainable otherwise. Unlike the car, which has a lot of sophisticated features you'd miss. So the metaphor breaks here. The problem, obviously, is exactly the exclusivity, and the effort currently required to obtain it.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Nope..there is only ONE PvE path to Legendary Armor, as such it is very exclusive to it's game mode. If there were other PvE ways to get Legendary Armor you would have a great point.. but since there isn't.. you don't.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Nah, I really do. People "convert" from one mode to another, sometimes exactly because of the armor. And it's still playing the same game after all, so sorry, I'm not buying your arbitrary separation.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > No.. you don't. You're just disagreeing at this point because you don't like the idea that you're wrong.

> > > > >

> > > > > Nobody likes being wrong, but I don't believe I am. See above my point for exclusivity. We both know skins are the true endgame in this game.

> > > >

> > > > You used the idea of getting a Farrari for a discounted price as a benchmark for you stand, but the real the world is a very accessible place, where people can in fact get a Ferrari or at the least the facsimile of one for vastly discounted price. If anything, the fact that in the real world people can at least have the look of a Farrari for a reasonable investment just shows how pitiful, entailed and pathetic the stand is by raiders that will continue to hock their purulent point of all or nothing.

> > > >

> > > > Not even the world works like that.. and the fact that GW2 expects people to pay into their game to be treated like that.. BUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

> > > >

> > > > That will kill them.

> > >

> > > You're missing the point. In the real world, there's more to owning a Ferarri than just the looks. *Much* more. I actually pity those who'd choose to make another car look like one. In this game, all you get *beside* the looks is a minor QoL. And I can't stress enough on "minor". Like I said, the metaphor breaks at some point. You're not asking to get an accessible facsimile of an exclusive item. You're asking for a de facto exclusive item to stop being exclusive. Sorry, can't agree. Sure, I'm biased. But then again, can you blame me? It is *my* months of effort that got rewarded by that item.

> >

> > See. .. No.. I **can** blame you for being like this.. because.. I don't understand your mindset.

> >

> > Case in point, I spent hundreds of tries to do the Mad King till I finally beat it.. once I beat it.. doing to again I think around two dozen more times was pretty easy in compairosn.. and raids are not intrinsically different then doing that.. once the mechanic and method is learned, it becomes easy to the point of a grind, where you know exactly why and where you failed if you fail at all. I just had no one helping me nor could anyone carry me, I also didn't need to worry about anyone else screwing it up for me.

> >

> > Now, If this year, they put in an easy path for Mad King so others could learn it and complete it, like they did with Winters Day, I would welcome it.. I would not turn into an insufferable baby crying about my efforts and the like, I would share in the joy that other players are now having, I would enjoy running with them, and think it was better overall for the game that it was more inclusive.

> >

> > So.. No.. I don't respect your stand, but.. it's not you I blame.. I blame Anet for being foolish enough to think that catering to that kind of mindset will profit their game.. it won't.

> >

> > It will slowly kill this game, and your rewards will be vaporware.

> Dark Souls was challenging when I first played it

> But now I could probably do a zero death run with a little bit of practice on the sequence break at the mandatory death. It's still fun to revisit it, to play new roles and builds and to continue getting better even though I'm at least at the minimum threshold for beating it. Same with raids. Plus with raids you're playing with friends, making it communal as well.

 

Would you cry like an inconsolable child if they put an option for "Easy" into Dark Souls ?

[Feanor.2358]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We aren't talking about torphies though, we're talking about something you grind towards, Legendary armor.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So go ahead and grind it.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, I couldn't enjoy that. I'm trying to get them to add a method I could enjoy.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can't enjoy a Ferrari's price tag. Care to give me a hand persuading them to sell me a new one, warranty included, for about 10k?

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure.. what scale would like.. I can get you a 1:24 pretty cheap.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Got two of these. But unless you convince Ohoni to be happy with a screenshot of the UI icon of the Envoy instead of the actual set, your proposal doesn't really apply.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Well see.. technically Ohoni just wants the skin.. not the Legendary Armor itself. So that would be like buying a Ferrari Kit.. which is around 10K As irony would have it, so, you could have your _Ferrari_ for one tenth the cost of a real one , if you were willing to put it on some other car frame.. which Ohoni is willing to do.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > So.. what is your problem with letting them have that?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Technically, the skin is the only exclusive part you're getting. Everything else is obtainable otherwise. Unlike the car, which has a lot of sophisticated features you'd miss. So the metaphor breaks here. The problem, obviously, is exactly the exclusivity, and the effort currently required to obtain it.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Nope..there is only ONE PvE path to Legendary Armor, as such it is very exclusive to it's game mode. If there were other PvE ways to get Legendary Armor you would have a great point.. but since there isn't.. you don't.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Nah, I really do. People "convert" from one mode to another, sometimes exactly because of the armor. And it's still playing the same game after all, so sorry, I'm not buying your arbitrary separation.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > No.. you don't. You're just disagreeing at this point because you don't like the idea that you're wrong.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Nobody likes being wrong, but I don't believe I am. See above my point for exclusivity. We both know skins are the true endgame in this game.

> > > > >

> > > > > You used the idea of getting a Farrari for a discounted price as a benchmark for you stand, but the real the world is a very accessible place, where people can in fact get a Ferrari or at the least the facsimile of one for vastly discounted price. If anything, the fact that in the real world people can at least have the look of a Farrari for a reasonable investment just shows how pitiful, entailed and pathetic the stand is by raiders that will continue to hock their purulent point of all or nothing.

> > > > >

> > > > > Not even the world works like that.. and the fact that GW2 expects people to pay into their game to be treated like that.. BUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

> > > > >

> > > > > That will kill them.

> > > >

> > > > You're missing the point. In the real world, there's more to owning a Ferarri than just the looks. *Much* more. I actually pity those who'd choose to make another car look like one. In this game, all you get *beside* the looks is a minor QoL. And I can't stress enough on "minor". Like I said, the metaphor breaks at some point. You're not asking to get an accessible facsimile of an exclusive item. You're asking for a de facto exclusive item to stop being exclusive. Sorry, can't agree. Sure, I'm biased. But then again, can you blame me? It is *my* months of effort that got rewarded by that item.

> > >

> > > See. .. No.. I **can** blame you for being like this.. because.. I don't understand your mindset.

> > >

> > > Case in point, I spent hundreds of tries to do the Mad King till I finally beat it.. once I beat it.. doing to again I think around two dozen more times was pretty easy in compairosn.. and raids are not intrinsically different then doing that.. once the mechanic and method is learned, it becomes easy to the point of a grind, where you know exactly why and where you failed if you fail at all. I just had no one helping me nor could anyone carry me, I also didn't need to worry about anyone else screwing it up for me.

> > >

> > > Now, If this year, they put in an easy path for Mad King so others could learn it and complete it, like they did with Winters Day, I would welcome it.. I would not turn into an insufferable baby crying about my efforts and the like, I would share in the joy that other players are now having, I would enjoy running with them, and think it was better overall for the game that it was more inclusive.

> > >

> > > So.. No.. I don't respect your stand, but.. it's not you I blame.. I blame Anet for being foolish enough to think that catering to that kind of mindset will profit their game.. it won't.

> > >

> > > It will slowly kill this game, and your rewards will be vaporware.

> > Dark Souls was challenging when I first played it

> > But now I could probably do a zero death run with a little bit of practice on the sequence break at the mandatory death. It's still fun to revisit it, to play new roles and builds and to continue getting better even though I'm at least at the minimum threshold for beating it. Same with raids. Plus with raids you're playing with friends, making it communal as well.

>

> Would you cry like an inconsolable child if they put an option for "Easy" into Dark Souls ?

 

Would you cry like an inconsolable child if they didn't?

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We aren't talking about torphies though, we're talking about something you grind towards, Legendary armor.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So go ahead and grind it.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, I couldn't enjoy that. I'm trying to get them to add a method I could enjoy.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can't enjoy a Ferrari's price tag. Care to give me a hand persuading them to sell me a new one, warranty included, for about 10k?

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure.. what scale would like.. I can get you a 1:24 pretty cheap.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Got two of these. But unless you convince Ohoni to be happy with a screenshot of the UI icon of the Envoy instead of the actual set, your proposal doesn't really apply.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Well see.. technically Ohoni just wants the skin.. not the Legendary Armor itself. So that would be like buying a Ferrari Kit.. which is around 10K As irony would have it, so, you could have your _Ferrari_ for one tenth the cost of a real one , if you were willing to put it on some other car frame.. which Ohoni is willing to do.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > So.. what is your problem with letting them have that?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Technically, the skin is the only exclusive part you're getting. Everything else is obtainable otherwise. Unlike the car, which has a lot of sophisticated features you'd miss. So the metaphor breaks here. The problem, obviously, is exactly the exclusivity, and the effort currently required to obtain it.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Nope..there is only ONE PvE path to Legendary Armor, as such it is very exclusive to it's game mode. If there were other PvE ways to get Legendary Armor you would have a great point.. but since there isn't.. you don't.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Nah, I really do. People "convert" from one mode to another, sometimes exactly because of the armor. And it's still playing the same game after all, so sorry, I'm not buying your arbitrary separation.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > No.. you don't. You're just disagreeing at this point because you don't like the idea that you're wrong.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Nobody likes being wrong, but I don't believe I am. See above my point for exclusivity. We both know skins are the true endgame in this game.

> > > > >

> > > > > You used the idea of getting a Farrari for a discounted price as a benchmark for you stand, but the real the world is a very accessible place, where people can in fact get a Ferrari or at the least the facsimile of one for vastly discounted price. If anything, the fact that in the real world people can at least have the look of a Farrari for a reasonable investment just shows how pitiful, entailed and pathetic the stand is by raiders that will continue to hock their purulent point of all or nothing.

> > > > >

> > > > > Not even the world works like that.. and the fact that GW2 expects people to pay into their game to be treated like that.. BUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

> > > > >

> > > > > That will kill them.

> > > >

> > > > You're missing the point. In the real world, there's more to owning a Ferarri than just the looks. *Much* more. I actually pity those who'd choose to make another car look like one. In this game, all you get *beside* the looks is a minor QoL. And I can't stress enough on "minor". Like I said, the metaphor breaks at some point. You're not asking to get an accessible facsimile of an exclusive item. You're asking for a de facto exclusive item to stop being exclusive. Sorry, can't agree. Sure, I'm biased. But then again, can you blame me? It is *my* months of effort that got rewarded by that item.

> > >

> > > See. .. No.. I **can** blame you for being like this.. because.. I don't understand your mindset.

> > >

> > > Case in point, I spent hundreds of tries to do the Mad King till I finally beat it.. once I beat it.. doing to again I think around two dozen more times was pretty easy in compairosn.. and raids are not intrinsically different then doing that.. once the mechanic and method is learned, it becomes easy to the point of a grind, where you know exactly why and where you failed if you fail at all. I just had no one helping me nor could anyone carry me, I also didn't need to worry about anyone else screwing it up for me.

> > >

> > > Now, If this year, they put in an easy path for Mad King so others could learn it and complete it, like they did with Winters Day, I would welcome it.. I would not turn into an insufferable baby crying about my efforts and the like, I would share in the joy that other players are now having, I would enjoy running with them, and think it was better overall for the game that it was more inclusive.

> > >

> > > So.. No.. I don't respect your stand, but.. it's not you I blame.. I blame Anet for being foolish enough to think that catering to that kind of mindset will profit their game.. it won't.

> > >

> > > It will slowly kill this game, and your rewards will be vaporware.

> > Dark Souls was challenging when I first played it

> > But now I could probably do a zero death run with a little bit of practice on the sequence break at the mandatory death. It's still fun to revisit it, to play new roles and builds and to continue getting better even though I'm at least at the minimum threshold for beating it. Same with raids. Plus with raids you're playing with friends, making it communal as well.

>

> Would you cry like an inconsolable child if they put an option for "Easy" into Dark Souls ?

 

I'd of beaten it in 15 minutes and then never thought about it again as opposed to it being my favorite game of all time and having completely changed how I view video games. My life would absolutely be lessened if Demon's Souls and Dark Souls had an easy mode, which is exactly what would happen for most players and raids.

[Tyson.5160]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > And I see no reason why Ohoni's way of thinking should be encouraged. So have we reached an impasse?

> > > >

> > > > the compromise seems obvious to me, no envoy gear for easy mode, but a different legendary skin, that takes proportionally longer the fram than existing raids, along line of wvw and pvp. I think Ohni is wrong, both on principle and on precedence.

> > >

> > > This solution also has many holes. In theory it's fine but, first of all the Raids that provide access to the Legendary Armor are part of Heart of Thorns. If I was Anet I wouldn't add such a high prestigious reward to so old content. Creating a brand new Legendary Armor skin for Heart of Thorns owners is wasted resources and wasted time that could be spent making new skins for the next expansion... Heart of Thorns is done already, no new reward will ever be created specifically for it (unless it's a gem store glider)

> > >

> > > Further, what about the Path of Fire Raids? We have one now Hall of Chains, it makes sense to get another Raid to finish the Legendary trinket before the next expansion. What exactly would an easy mode for Hall of Chains provide? Obviously you can't expect players to have both expansions to get Legendary armor, for marketing reasons, so Hall of Chains (and the next Raid) need something else.

> > >

> > > The way I see it, if modes are to be added to the Raid, is to make sure the next expansion's Raids are created from scratch to support tiers, something the current Raids were never designed for, and add a new Legendary Armor skin to the "normal" version there. Then add another Legendary item, amulet, accessory, back item, to the Hard version. That way you make sure both modes get players, there is no conflict of interest, since both modes offer different "end" rewards. And by making the Raid from the start tier-friendly you skip the problem of adding code later, which has the tendency of breaking things completely.

> >

> > So add more Legendary items to raiding? Yeah no thanks, I prefer they spread the trinkets and so forth among the other game modes too.

>

> You think they won't add more Legendary items to raiding? IT's more than safe to assume that every Raid will be tied to at least one Legendary item.

>

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > A new legendary skin for normal mode and a bunch of raiding trinkets for hard mode was what I was referring to.

>

> I didn't mean all of those at once, one trinket only.

 

What I was trying to get across is that Raids shouldn’t horde all the Legendary items. They should be spread across all game modes especially WvW.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We aren't talking about torphies though, we're talking about something you grind towards, Legendary armor.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So go ahead and grind it.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, I couldn't enjoy that. I'm trying to get them to add a method I could enjoy.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can't enjoy a Ferrari's price tag. Care to give me a hand persuading them to sell me a new one, warranty included, for about 10k?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure.. what scale would like.. I can get you a 1:24 pretty cheap.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Got two of these. But unless you convince Ohoni to be happy with a screenshot of the UI icon of the Envoy instead of the actual set, your proposal doesn't really apply.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Well see.. technically Ohoni just wants the skin.. not the Legendary Armor itself. So that would be like buying a Ferrari Kit.. which is around 10K As irony would have it, so, you could have your _Ferrari_ for one tenth the cost of a real one , if you were willing to put it on some other car frame.. which Ohoni is willing to do.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > So.. what is your problem with letting them have that?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Technically, the skin is the only exclusive part you're getting. Everything else is obtainable otherwise. Unlike the car, which has a lot of sophisticated features you'd miss. So the metaphor breaks here. The problem, obviously, is exactly the exclusivity, and the effort currently required to obtain it.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Nope..there is only ONE PvE path to Legendary Armor, as such it is very exclusive to it's game mode. If there were other PvE ways to get Legendary Armor you would have a great point.. but since there isn't.. you don't.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Nah, I really do. People "convert" from one mode to another, sometimes exactly because of the armor. And it's still playing the same game after all, so sorry, I'm not buying your arbitrary separation.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > No.. you don't. You're just disagreeing at this point because you don't like the idea that you're wrong.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Nobody likes being wrong, but I don't believe I am. See above my point for exclusivity. We both know skins are the true endgame in this game.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You used the idea of getting a Farrari for a discounted price as a benchmark for you stand, but the real the world is a very accessible place, where people can in fact get a Ferrari or at the least the facsimile of one for vastly discounted price. If anything, the fact that in the real world people can at least have the look of a Farrari for a reasonable investment just shows how pitiful, entailed and pathetic the stand is by raiders that will continue to hock their purulent point of all or nothing.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Not even the world works like that.. and the fact that GW2 expects people to pay into their game to be treated like that.. BUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That will kill them.

> > > > >

> > > > > You're missing the point. In the real world, there's more to owning a Ferarri than just the looks. *Much* more. I actually pity those who'd choose to make another car look like one. In this game, all you get *beside* the looks is a minor QoL. And I can't stress enough on "minor". Like I said, the metaphor breaks at some point. You're not asking to get an accessible facsimile of an exclusive item. You're asking for a de facto exclusive item to stop being exclusive. Sorry, can't agree. Sure, I'm biased. But then again, can you blame me? It is *my* months of effort that got rewarded by that item.

> > > >

> > > > See. .. No.. I **can** blame you for being like this.. because.. I don't understand your mindset.

> > > >

> > > > Case in point, I spent hundreds of tries to do the Mad King till I finally beat it.. once I beat it.. doing to again I think around two dozen more times was pretty easy in compairosn.. and raids are not intrinsically different then doing that.. once the mechanic and method is learned, it becomes easy to the point of a grind, where you know exactly why and where you failed if you fail at all. I just had no one helping me nor could anyone carry me, I also didn't need to worry about anyone else screwing it up for me.

> > > >

> > > > Now, If this year, they put in an easy path for Mad King so others could learn it and complete it, like they did with Winters Day, I would welcome it.. I would not turn into an insufferable baby crying about my efforts and the like, I would share in the joy that other players are now having, I would enjoy running with them, and think it was better overall for the game that it was more inclusive.

> > > >

> > > > So.. No.. I don't respect your stand, but.. it's not you I blame.. I blame Anet for being foolish enough to think that catering to that kind of mindset will profit their game.. it won't.

> > > >

> > > > It will slowly kill this game, and your rewards will be vaporware.

> > > Dark Souls was challenging when I first played it

> > > But now I could probably do a zero death run with a little bit of practice on the sequence break at the mandatory death. It's still fun to revisit it, to play new roles and builds and to continue getting better even though I'm at least at the minimum threshold for beating it. Same with raids. Plus with raids you're playing with friends, making it communal as well.

> >

> > Would you cry like an inconsolable child if they put an option for "Easy" into Dark Souls ?

>

> Would you cry like an inconsolable child if they didn't?

 

Someone asked me this question years ago.When everyone was crying about wanting harder content, and they asked me what I would do if they put this kind of content in.

 

My answer has not changed. If what I could play was fun and enjoyable to me, I'd play till I reached my skill cap, realize that is as far as I will get, and then like any reasonable person, I'd quit and look for another game to play.

 

As I said.. Raids will Kill this game.

 

And yah.. real pity Bless had such a rocky start.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We aren't talking about torphies though, we're talking about something you grind towards, Legendary armor.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So go ahead and grind it.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Again, I couldn't enjoy that. I'm trying to get them to add a method I could enjoy.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I can't enjoy a Ferrari's price tag. Care to give me a hand persuading them to sell me a new one, warranty included, for about 10k?

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure.. what scale would like.. I can get you a 1:24 pretty cheap.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Got two of these. But unless you convince Ohoni to be happy with a screenshot of the UI icon of the Envoy instead of the actual set, your proposal doesn't really apply.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Well see.. technically Ohoni just wants the skin.. not the Legendary Armor itself. So that would be like buying a Ferrari Kit.. which is around 10K As irony would have it, so, you could have your _Ferrari_ for one tenth the cost of a real one , if you were willing to put it on some other car frame.. which Ohoni is willing to do.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > So.. what is your problem with letting them have that?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Technically, the skin is the only exclusive part you're getting. Everything else is obtainable otherwise. Unlike the car, which has a lot of sophisticated features you'd miss. So the metaphor breaks here. The problem, obviously, is exactly the exclusivity, and the effort currently required to obtain it.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Nope..there is only ONE PvE path to Legendary Armor, as such it is very exclusive to it's game mode. If there were other PvE ways to get Legendary Armor you would have a great point.. but since there isn't.. you don't.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Nah, I really do. People "convert" from one mode to another, sometimes exactly because of the armor. And it's still playing the same game after all, so sorry, I'm not buying your arbitrary separation.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > No.. you don't. You're just disagreeing at this point because you don't like the idea that you're wrong.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Nobody likes being wrong, but I don't believe I am. See above my point for exclusivity. We both know skins are the true endgame in this game.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You used the idea of getting a Farrari for a discounted price as a benchmark for you stand, but the real the world is a very accessible place, where people can in fact get a Ferrari or at the least the facsimile of one for vastly discounted price. If anything, the fact that in the real world people can at least have the look of a Farrari for a reasonable investment just shows how pitiful, entailed and pathetic the stand is by raiders that will continue to hock their purulent point of all or nothing.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Not even the world works like that.. and the fact that GW2 expects people to pay into their game to be treated like that.. BUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That will kill them.

> > > > >

> > > > > You're missing the point. In the real world, there's more to owning a Ferarri than just the looks. *Much* more. I actually pity those who'd choose to make another car look like one. In this game, all you get *beside* the looks is a minor QoL. And I can't stress enough on "minor". Like I said, the metaphor breaks at some point. You're not asking to get an accessible facsimile of an exclusive item. You're asking for a de facto exclusive item to stop being exclusive. Sorry, can't agree. Sure, I'm biased. But then again, can you blame me? It is *my* months of effort that got rewarded by that item.

> > > >

> > > > See. .. No.. I **can** blame you for being like this.. because.. I don't understand your mindset.

> > > >

> > > > Case in point, I spent hundreds of tries to do the Mad King till I finally beat it.. once I beat it.. doing to again I think around two dozen more times was pretty easy in compairosn.. and raids are not intrinsically different then doing that.. once the mechanic and method is learned, it becomes easy to the point of a grind, where you know exactly why and where you failed if you fail at all. I just had no one helping me nor could anyone carry me, I also didn't need to worry about anyone else screwing it up for me.

> > > >

> > > > Now, If this year, they put in an easy path for Mad King so others could learn it and complete it, like they did with Winters Day, I would welcome it.. I would not turn into an insufferable baby crying about my efforts and the like, I would share in the joy that other players are now having, I would enjoy running with them, and think it was better overall for the game that it was more inclusive.

> > > >

> > > > So.. No.. I don't respect your stand, but.. it's not you I blame.. I blame Anet for being foolish enough to think that catering to that kind of mindset will profit their game.. it won't.

> > > >

> > > > It will slowly kill this game, and your rewards will be vaporware.

> > > Dark Souls was challenging when I first played it

> > > But now I could probably do a zero death run with a little bit of practice on the sequence break at the mandatory death. It's still fun to revisit it, to play new roles and builds and to continue getting better even though I'm at least at the minimum threshold for beating it. Same with raids. Plus with raids you're playing with friends, making it communal as well.

> >

> > Would you cry like an inconsolable child if they put an option for "Easy" into Dark Souls ?

>

> I'd of beaten it in 15 minutes and then never thought about it again as opposed to it being my favorite game of all time and having completely changed how I view video games. My life would absolutely be lessened if Demon's Souls and Dark Souls had an easy mode, which is exactly what would happen for most players and raids.

 

So if they had put in an easy mode.. you would not have challenged yourself to play the Hard or Normal Version.. fascinating.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> What I was trying to get across is that Raids shouldn’t horde all the Legendary items. They should be spread across all game modes especially WvW.

 

I'm not really sure if WVW needs another Legendary item being core content that doesn't even require an expansion.

On the other hand every future Raid will need access to at least one Legendary item, because they are expansion content and to stay similar to past Raids.

The Living World will also get another Legendary item, like Aurora, once all episodes are out, so that's another one.

And besides, it's not *all* items. Last I checked you can't get any Legendary Weapon in Raids (maybe Gen 3 will be available in a future Raid?)

 

edit: WVW has a reward up to Rank 2000, how many players are even close to that?

[Tyson.5160]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > What I was trying to get across is that Raids shouldn’t horde all the Legendary items. They should be spread across all game modes especially WvW.

>

> I'm not really sure if WVW needs another Legendary item being core content that doesn't even require an expansion.

> On the other hand every future Raid will need access to at least one Legendary item, because they are expansion content and to stay similar to past Raids.

> The Living World will also get another Legendary item, like Aurora, once all episodes are out, so that's another one.

> And besides, it's not *all* items. Last I checked you can't get any Legendary Weapon in Raids (maybe Gen 3 will be available in a future Raid?)

>

> edit: WVW has a reward up to Rank 2000, how many players are even close to that?

 

You have stat swapping armor in WvW, but they won’t add trinkets? I find this hard to believe.

[Voltekka.2375]

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > What I was trying to get across is that Raids shouldn’t horde all the Legendary items. They should be spread across all game modes especially WvW.

> >

> > I'm not really sure if WVW needs another Legendary item being core content that doesn't even require an expansion.

> > On the other hand every future Raid will need access to at least one Legendary item, because they are expansion content and to stay similar to past Raids.

> > The Living World will also get another Legendary item, like Aurora, once all episodes are out, so that's another one.

> > And besides, it's not *all* items. Last I checked you can't get any Legendary Weapon in Raids (maybe Gen 3 will be available in a future Raid?)

> >

> > edit: WVW has a reward up to Rank 2000, how many players are even close to that?

>

> You have stat swapping armor in WvW, but they won’t add trinkets? I find this hard to believe.

 

Not to mention a wvw backpack, too.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > What I was trying to get across is that Raids shouldn’t horde all the Legendary items. They should be spread across all game modes especially WvW.

> >

> > I'm not really sure if WVW needs another Legendary item being core content that doesn't even require an expansion.

> > On the other hand every future Raid will need access to at least one Legendary item, because they are expansion content and to stay similar to past Raids.

> > The Living World will also get another Legendary item, like Aurora, once all episodes are out, so that's another one.

> > And besides, it's not *all* items. Last I checked you can't get any Legendary Weapon in Raids (maybe Gen 3 will be available in a future Raid?)

> >

> > edit: WVW has a reward up to Rank 2000, how many players are even close to that?

>

> You have stat swapping armor in WvW, but they won’t add trinkets? I find this hard to believe.

 

You can take that to the WVW forums if you want. As you will probably figure out yourself all future Raids will have their Legendary item tied to them, with or without an easy or hard mode. What kind of rewards go to WVW is irrelevant to what kind of reward the future Raids will get.

[Tyson.5160]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > > @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > > > What I was trying to get across is that Raids shouldn’t horde all the Legendary items. They should be spread across all game modes especially WvW.

> > >

> > > I'm not really sure if WVW needs another Legendary item being core content that doesn't even require an expansion.

> > > On the other hand every future Raid will need access to at least one Legendary item, because they are expansion content and to stay similar to past Raids.

> > > The Living World will also get another Legendary item, like Aurora, once all episodes are out, so that's another one.

> > > And besides, it's not *all* items. Last I checked you can't get any Legendary Weapon in Raids (maybe Gen 3 will be available in a future Raid?)

> > >

> > > edit: WVW has a reward up to Rank 2000, how many players are even close to that?

> >

> > You have stat swapping armor in WvW, but they won’t add trinkets? I find this hard to believe.

>

> You can take that to the WVW forums if you want. As you will probably figure out yourself all future Raids will have their Legendary item tied to them, with or without an easy or hard mode. What kind of rewards go to WVW is irrelevant to what kind of reward the future Raids will get.

 

I’m fine with Raids getting Legendary Trinkets if the other modes get them as well. What I don’t agree with is having all the trinkets attached to Raids.