Obtena.7952 Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > It's pretty interesting that people that self-admit they don't want to do raids are so significantly invested in a thread about raiding ... just saying. Have to be aware of the MOTIVES behind why people want things here. It's not always in the best interests of the game, Anet or the players. > > Has it ever dawned on you that they are here.. because they are invested in the game and want the best for it, as opposed to just mindlessly clinging to some need to posses loots that make them feel better then other people. You don't have any idea what is the best for the game though ... you pretend to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > You are a legend in my book if you bought 150 kills. I wouldnt even dreamed of farming all that gold wether its irl orin game. Sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > @"Talindra.4958" said: > > We can also make auto match search LFG system for raids where players input or tick/select their ready available search requirements, players with such requirements can join (similar to fractal tier where players won't be able to join higher tier not unless they progressed). > > This is a horrible idea. Automated systems remove the social part of raiding and ultimately kill it off as people are no longer invested because, why interact, why care....I can just queue up again and if that one doesn't work i'll leave. > > You want people invested in the mode of play, not withdrawn from it because there's no cost to their actions. You could say that now, why interact, why care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > @"Talindra.4958" said: > > > We can also make auto match search LFG system for raids where players input or tick/select their ready available search requirements, players with such requirements can join (similar to fractal tier where players won't be able to join higher tier not unless they progressed). > > > > This is a horrible idea. Automated systems remove the social part of raiding and ultimately kill it off as people are no longer invested because, why interact, why care....I can just queue up again and if that one doesn't work i'll leave. > > > > You want people invested in the mode of play, not withdrawn from it because there's no cost to their actions. > > You could say that now, why interact, why care. > > Coz u wont get anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > You are a legend in my book if you bought 150 kills. I wouldnt even dreamed of farming all that gold wether its irl orin game. > > Sad. I didnt say its a good thing but i prefer it over farming faceroll modes and getting the most prestigious gear in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 > @"Anvil.9230" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > @"Anvil.9230" said: > > > The more I read that topic, the more I understand that finally the people who complain that raids are too difficult for them, complain in fact that they cannot access to the their specific rewards. > > > > Yeah, it's both. Honestly, if you didn't get that from page 1 then I don't know how to help you. > > Once upon a time was SWG, Star Wars Galaxies. > > A very good MMO released in 2003...It was a very immersive sandbox MMO....it has its issues as any game of course...but we can say one big mistake has been important in its final collapse...a mistake about the possibility to play a Jedi character. > > The MMO take place between "a New Hope" and "The empire strike back": Jedi should have been ultra-rare to boot. The early SWG game design team, debated making Jedi NPCs-only, reducing their power, or picking a different time period to begin with. Each solution was rejected. Some people of the game design team dreamed up the idea of a Diablo-inspired hardcore permadeath mode for Jedi, which was also rejected initially because .... permadeath....Sad decision...this last one would certainly have been a good idea....But the problem was Jedi inspire envy in everyone around them...And such an "elitist" system has been rejected by LucasArts, who finally demanded Jedi from “the second biggest MMO outside of Asia”. The Jedi system (build around a more or less classical "farming" system) was a go; SOE dropped Holocrons as hints into the game, and video gamers did what they always do: They brute-forced Jedi by just learning all the skills. By the time the Jedi Village rolled around and everyone was a Jedi...And as a result, playerbase felt betrayed” by the system. Satisfaction fell off a cliff. > > Of course Legendary skins are not as important in Gw2 as jedi profession were in SWG...but the mechanism is the same: If an element of the gameplay is supposed to be "heroic"...it must be looked beind a challenge different from "farming activity"... or no player should be allowed to acceess it. > > > >According to me It would be a very bad idea to change that. As an exemple the legendary armor is....legendary. It means you have to do some legendary (meaning as always difficult) action to have it. > > > > Nah. That's just a nonsense justification for "I got mine, now shut up." There's nothing "Legendary" about legendary armor aside from that they slapped the word "Legendary" on it. There's plenty of other "Legendary" stuff in the game much easier to get. There's absolutely no reason why raids should be the only PvE way to earn the armor. > > I have not done all the things i'd like to achieve with GW2 raids. It will certainly take some time to complete them and will need me to adapt parts of my gameplay to success what i want to do...But If I obtain the prize it would be because I'll finally find a solution...not because someone change the rule of the game to allow me to..."win"?.... > > > >People want to be dress as a Legend?...Ok...but They have to perform some kind of legendary....heroic... action...a thing that "pure farming" is certainly not. > > > > Someone has an awfully high opinion of himself. > > Hope you have a good opinion of yourself too. It's an important success factor to progress whatever you do. > I too played Swg and they took the Jedi thing to the extreme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > > > > @"Talindra.4958" said: > > > > We can also make auto match search LFG system for raids where players input or tick/select their ready available search requirements, players with such requirements can join (similar to fractal tier where players won't be able to join higher tier not unless they progressed). > > > > > > This is a horrible idea. Automated systems remove the social part of raiding and ultimately kill it off as people are no longer invested because, why interact, why care....I can just queue up again and if that one doesn't work i'll leave. > > > > > > You want people invested in the mode of play, not withdrawn from it because there's no cost to their actions. > > > > You could say that now, why interact, why care. > > > > > > Coz u wont get anywhere. I see what you did there, clever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > It's pretty interesting that people that self-admit they don't want to do raids are so significantly invested in a thread about raiding ... just saying. Have to be aware of the MOTIVES behind why people want things here. It's not always in the best interests of the game, Anet or the players. > > > > Has it ever dawned on you that they are here.. because they are invested in the game and want the best for it, as opposed to just mindlessly clinging to some need to posses loots that make them feel better then other people. > > You don't have any idea what is the best for the game though ... you pretend to. pots and kettles. But, that aside. Truth is, no matter what, what they are doing right now is not working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > You are a legend in my book if you bought 150 kills. I wouldnt even dreamed of farming all that gold wether its irl orin game. > > > > Sad. > > I didnt say its a good thing but i prefer it over farming faceroll modes and getting the most prestigious gear in the game. I find the idea that there are people who would consider gear "prestigious" to be sad on the face of it. There is no "prestige" in having anything in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > You are a legend in my book if you bought 150 kills. I wouldnt even dreamed of farming all that gold wether its irl orin game. > > > > > > Sad. > > > > I didnt say its a good thing but i prefer it over farming faceroll modes and getting the most prestigious gear in the game. > > I find the idea that there are people who would consider gear "prestigious" to be sad on the face of it. There is no "prestige" in having anything in the game. There is when a small amount of ppl have it and its not just time commitment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > You are a legend in my book if you bought 150 kills. I wouldnt even dreamed of farming all that gold wether its irl orin game. > > > > > > > > Sad. > > > > > > I didnt say its a good thing but i prefer it over farming faceroll modes and getting the most prestigious gear in the game. > > > > I find the idea that there are people who would consider gear "prestigious" to be sad on the face of it. There is no "prestige" in having anything in the game. > > There is when a small amount of ppl have it and its not just time commitment. Not really. Again, you can just buy your way to get it. In fact, raiders seem to even *suggest* this route fairly constantly, which makes me wonder which they care more about, the "prestige" or the predatory revenue stream. Few people having something does not make it "prestigious," it just means that whatever methods there are for acquiring it, aren't sufficient (or nobody wants it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > You are a legend in my book if you bought 150 kills. I wouldnt even dreamed of farming all that gold wether its irl orin game. > > > > > > Sad. > > > > I didnt say its a good thing but i prefer it over farming faceroll modes and getting the most prestigious gear in the game. > > I find the idea that there are people who would consider gear "prestigious" to be sad on the face of it. There is no "prestige" in having anything in the game. What I find sad, is that these people would rather drive away other players and kill their game, then share their gear. Let that process for a while, because that is what is really being said here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > You are a legend in my book if you bought 150 kills. I wouldnt even dreamed of farming all that gold wether its irl orin game. > > > > > > > > Sad. > > > > > > I didnt say its a good thing but i prefer it over farming faceroll modes and getting the most prestigious gear in the game. > > > > I find the idea that there are people who would consider gear "prestigious" to be sad on the face of it. There is no "prestige" in having anything in the game. > > What I find sad, is that these people would rather drive away other players and kill their game, then share their gear. > > Let that process for a while, because that is what is really being said here. Nah not really. Its a circle, if more ppl get the gear the intented way then new raids will be more comfortable adding new rewards of value. Id rather drive off ppl than have the rewards be handed out but if they want the rewards so much that they will do the content for it all strength to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > You are a legend in my book if you bought 150 kills. I wouldnt even dreamed of farming all that gold wether its irl orin game. > > > > > > Sad. > > > > I didnt say its a good thing but i prefer it over farming faceroll modes and getting the most prestigious gear in the game. > > I find the idea that there are people who would consider gear "prestigious" to be sad on the face of it. There is no "prestige" in having anything in the game. Prestige is a matter of perception. There will always be prestige in having specific items, be it in the game or in real life. It's irrelevant if you find it sad or not, it's just a fact of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > You are a legend in my book if you bought 150 kills. I wouldnt even dreamed of farming all that gold wether its irl orin game. > > > > > > > > > > Sad. > > > > > > > > I didnt say its a good thing but i prefer it over farming faceroll modes and getting the most prestigious gear in the game. > > > > > > I find the idea that there are people who would consider gear "prestigious" to be sad on the face of it. There is no "prestige" in having anything in the game. > > > > There is when a small amount of ppl have it and its not just time commitment. > > Not really. Again, you can just buy your way to get it. In fact, raiders seem to even *suggest* this route fairly constantly, which makes me wonder which they care more about, the "prestige" or the predatory revenue stream. Few people having something does not make it "prestigious," it just means that whatever methods there are for acquiring it, aren't sufficient (or nobody wants it). It can also mean that its not easy to aquire. "just buy your way" u must not be aware of the money that ud need to spend to 100% buy the aquisition of the armor. The actual number of ppl that bought it entirely is VERY small compaired to ppl that bought a couple of runs and then farmed the rest legit or did it all legit. Whats "insufficient" to you its not for other. On the contrary the "insufficient" way of its aquisition is what makes ot all the more apealing to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > Nah not really. Its a circle, if more ppl get the gear the intented way then new raids will be more comfortable adding new rewards of value. > > Id rather drive off ppl than have the rewards be handed out but if they want the rewards so much that they will do the content for it all strength to them. That's not a positive outcome though. If players are running content that they don't enjoy, then that is a **bad thing.** > @"Feanor.2358" said: > Prestige is a matter of perception. There will always be prestige in having specific items, be it in the game or in real life. It's irrelevant if you find it sad or not, it's just a fact of life. Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong. > @"zealex.9410" said: > It can also mean that its not easy to aquire. "just buy your way" u must not be aware of the money that ud need to spend to 100% buy the aquisition of the armor. The actual number of ppl that bought it entirely is VERY small compaired to ppl that bought a couple of runs and then farmed the rest legit or did it all legit. The amount is irrelevant. If you can buy your way, you can buy your way, which completely negates any value in having "earned" it. That you seem to prefer players buy their way to the goal than that they earn it through hard work in a manner they actually enjoy, speaks volumes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > Nah not really. Its a circle, if more ppl get the gear the intented way then new raids will be more comfortable adding new rewards of value. > > > > Id rather drive off ppl than have the rewards be handed out but if they want the rewards so much that they will do the content for it all strength to them. > > That's not a positive outcome though. If players are running content that they don't enjoy, then that is a **bad thing.** > No not really, they can simply not run the content its their chouce to run it. Its also not a bad thing to take players off their safe zone. > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > Prestige is a matter of perception. There will always be prestige in having specific items, be it in the game or in real life. It's irrelevant if you find it sad or not, it's just a fact of life. > > Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong. > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > It can also mean that its not easy to aquire. "just buy your way" u must not be aware of the money that ud need to spend to 100% buy the aquisition of the armor. The actual number of ppl that bought it entirely is VERY small compaired to ppl that bought a couple of runs and then farmed the rest legit or did it all legit. > > The amount is irrelevant. If you can buy your way, you can buy your way, which completely negates any value in having "earned" it. That you seem to prefer players buy their way to the goal than that they earn it through hard work in a manner they actually enjoy, speaks volumes. Your manner of earning includes no hard work. Hard work is what u have rn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yann.1946 Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > Prestige is a matter of perception. There will always be prestige in having specific items, be it in the game or in real life. It's irrelevant if you find it sad or not, it's just a fact of life. > > Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong. Not really, their is a part of perception to prestige. In most cases it doesn't really matter if their is some prestige (which is a bad defined notion anyway) but if the people involved believe their to be some prestige involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > No not really, they can simply not run the content its their chouce to run it. Its also not a bad thing to take players off their safe zone. Players choosing not to run content if that means abandoning a reward they wanted is *also* a **bad result.** And no, getting players to move outside their safe zone is not bad. The game should do that. Requiring players to spend *months* outside that safe zone, long after they've decided they *do not like it there,* is definitely still a bad thing. I'm pretty sure we've been over the *bright* line between "getting a player out of their safe zone" and "requiring them to stay there." >Your manner of earning includes no hard work. Hard work is what u have rn. "Hard work" is entirely subjective. Every proposal I've made has involved what I consider "hard work," what most players of this game consider hard work, whether you agree that it is hard work or not is irrelevant. I don't consider raiding to be any more "hard work" than farming world bosses, it just requires a different set of personal preferences whether you *enjoy* that or not. > @"yann.1946" said: > Not really, their is a part of perception to prestige. In most cases it doesn't really matter if their is some prestige (which is a bad defined notion anyway) but if the people involved believe their to be some prestige involved. But let's say that you do find it "prestigious" for someone to have legendary armor, for whatever reason. Why should *my* ability to have legendary armor be gated by *your* insistence that it is "prestigious?" Shouldn't someone's interest in the item for its own intrinsic value override someone else's interest in the item remaining overly rare? This strikes me like the De Beers situation, in which they just *decided* that diamonds should be "rare and special," and so they sell them in metered quantities to maintain that price, when really everyone on Earth could have a ton of diamonds if they didn't maintain such a tight monopoly on the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > No not really, they can simply not run the content its their chouce to run it. Its also not a bad thing to take players off their safe zone. > > Players choosing not to run content if that means abandoning a reward they wanted is *also* a **bad result.** > No its a choice games and life are full of choices. you do that and get that or you dont and dont get it. Its been a staple in mmos and rpgs for decades and its proven time and time again very successful design. > And no, getting players to move outside their safe zone is not bad. The game should do that. Requiring players to spend *months* outside that safe zone, long after they've decided they *do not like it there,* is definitely still a bad thing. I'm pretty sure we've been over the *bright* line between "getting a player out of their safe zone" and "requiring them to stay there." > > >Your manner of earning includes no hard work. Hard work is what u have rn. > > "Hard work" is entirely subjective. Every proposal I've made has involved what I consider "hard work," what most players of this game consider hard work, whether you agree that it is hard work or not is irrelevant. I don't consider raiding to be any more "hard work" than farming world bosses, it just requires a different set of personal preferences whether you *enjoy* that or not. > > > > > @"yann.1946" said: > > Not really, their is a part of perception to prestige. In most cases it doesn't really matter if their is some prestige (which is a bad defined notion anyway) but if the people involved believe their to be some prestige involved. > > But let's say that you do find it "prestigious" for someone to have legendary armor, for whatever reason. Why should *my* ability to have legendary armor be gated by *your* insistence that it is "prestigious?" Shouldn't someone's interest in the item for its own intrinsic value override someone else's interest in the item remaining overly rare? > > This strikes me like the De Beers situation, in which they just *decided* that diamonds should be "rare and special," and so they sell them in metered quantities to maintain that price, when really everyone on Earth could have a ton of diamonds if they didn't maintain such a tight monopoly on the market. > > I dont consider doing a slightly harder thing once or twice for a reward getting out of your comfort zone. Its the "do it for a somewhat long period of time" thats the "getting out your comfort zone". It also need to be said that said period of time will keep getting smaller and smaller the more raids we get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yann.1946 Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > @"yann.1946" said: > > Not really, their is a part of perception to prestige. In most cases it doesn't really matter if their is some prestige (which is a bad defined notion anyway) but if the people involved believe their to be some prestige involved. > > But let's say that you do find it "prestigious" for someone to have legendary armor, for whatever reason. Why should *my* ability to have legendary armor be gated by *your* insistence that it is "prestigious?" Shouldn't someone's interest in the item for its own intrinsic value override someone else's interest in the item remaining overly rare? > > This strikes me like the De Beers situation, in which they just *decided* that diamonds should be "rare and special," and so they sell them in metered quantities to maintain that price, when really everyone on Earth could have a ton of diamonds if they didn't maintain such a tight monopoly on the market. > > Which leads to another discussion entirly namely what is the use of exclusive resources in An economy. If you wan't to have this discussion let me know, i don't really know if this is the place. But my response was only to you're claim that feanor was wrong about prestige while he in fact. Wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: >No its a choice games and life are full of choices. you do that and get that or you dont and dont get it. Its been a staple in mmos and rpgs for decades and its proven time and time again very successful design. But when both choices lead to bad ends ("which would you prefer, the door with a tiger behind it, or the one with a bear behind it?"), then maybe presenting a third choice would be a better option. >I dont consider doing a slightly harder thing once or twice for a reward getting out of your comfort zone. Its the "do it for a somewhat long period of time" thats the "getting out your comfort zone". What's the benefit there though? Like let's say I asked you to put on my shoes. I have no idea what your shoe size is, but I don't particularly like my shoes anyway, so let's assume you wouldn't find them at all comfortable. But you put them on, you "get out of your comfort zone." And you walk a mile in those shoes. And if it turns out at the end of that mile that you actually liked them, great! I'll tell you where you can get a pair. But what if you didn't like them? How far should you keep walking? Five miles? Ten, a hundred, a thousand? Who benefits from you continuing to walk in shoes that you know full well will never fit you right? Ity is inexplicable to me how you continue to argue that this is somehow a rational position for *anyone* in this situation to take. It's bad for every player, it's bad for the developer, why should anyone defend such a thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > >No its a choice games and life are full of choices. you do that and get that or you dont and dont get it. Its been a staple in mmos and rpgs for decades and its proven time and time again very successful design. > > But when both choices lead to bad ends ("which would you prefer, the door with a tiger behind it, or the one with a bear behind it?"), then maybe presenting a third choice would be a better option. > Whats a bad end is subjective one leads to not getting the skin which in your case is suppose a bad ending the other leads to you getting the skin which is a good one! Also the example is bad, its either u take the door which leads to the exit or you take the stairs which lead to your reward. None of the options will lead you to a carnivore in this case, one argueably doesnt reward you but it also doesnt tire you the other makes you work but thats the point of the shinny, to reward you for your hard work. > >I dont consider doing a slightly harder thing once or twice for a reward getting out of your comfort zone. Its the "do it for a somewhat long period of time" thats the "getting out your comfort zone". > > What's the benefit there though? Like let's say I asked you to put on my shoes. I have no idea what your shoe size is, but I don't particularly like my shoes anyway, so let's assume you wouldn't find them at all comfortable. But you put them on, you "get out of your comfort zone." And you walk a mile in those shoes. And if it turns out at the end of that mile that you actually liked them, great! I'll tell you where you can get a pair. But what if you didn't like them? How far should you keep walking? Five miles? Ten, a hundred, a thousand? Who benefits from you continuing to walk in shoes that you know full well will never fit you right? Ity is inexplicable to me how you continue to argue that this is somehow a rational position for *anyone* in this situation to take. It's bad for every player, it's bad for the developer, why should anyone defend such a thing? > > Bad example again. I cant do anything to make the experiece more enjoyable here. The shoes are the way they are i cant change that nor i can shrink or increase the size of my foot to get a more comfortable result. In a raid scenario i can imrpove my gameplay and as a result get an easier, smoother and argueably more enjoyable experience in the raid. You have total control over how the experience will play out either it will be frustratimg and take forever or it will be enjoyable and it will take less time or it wont be as enjoyable still but u will be able to do it faster. The developers dont have to change anything stop pretending like theres no options or solutions in the current system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 > @"zealex.9410" said: > Whats a bad end is subjective one leads to not getting the skin which in your case is suppose a bad ending the other leads to you getting the skin which is a good one! I agree it's subjective, it's subjective to the end-user. My point is that the developer should take the end-user's subjective viewpoint into account, and provide non-bad options. >In a raid scenario i can imrpove my gameplay and as a result get an easier, smoother and argueably more enjoyable experience in the raid. Ok, fair enough. Let's say then that after walking a thousand miles in my shoes, they would become comfortable to you. Not *super* comfortable or anything, just the same amount of comfortable you could get by just going to the store and buying a different pair that fits better. The thing is, even if they do eventually become more comfortable, you still had to spend a lot of time being extremely uncomfortable to get to that point, which, I don't know, maybe some people like that kind of thing, but most don't. So again, even in that scenario, *what is the benefit to anyone* in having you walk those thousand miles in ill-fitting shoes? I can understand aggressive self-interest, I can understand a company making a decision that is against their customers' interests because it benefits their bottom line. I just don't see the upside here, I don't see who's life is actually *improved* by this decision. >You have total control over how the experience will play out either it will be frustratimg and take forever or it will be enjoyable and it will take less time or it wont be as enjoyable still but u will be able to do it faster. You have zero control over that. If your natural state is that it would frustrate you, then it will frustrate you. If your natural state is that it would be enjoyable then it would be enjoyable. You don't get to *pick.* >Also why do you care about the experience? Arent you after the reward? If you want an easier experience why not ask for that why should it include the reward as well? To result in a **net positive outcome,** in which both the journey and destination were enjoyable, rather than forcing a player to choose one or the other arbitrarily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > Whats a bad end is subjective one leads to not getting the skin which in your case is suppose a bad ending the other leads to you getting the skin which is a good one! > > I agree it's subjective, it's subjective to the end-user. My point is that the developer should take the end-user's subjective viewpoint into account, and provide non-bad options. > No, theres an unlimited amount of players and an unlimited amount of bad options. The options should be good based on the context of the content. Which they are. > >In a raid scenario i can imrpove my gameplay and as a result get an easier, smoother and argueably more enjoyable experience in the raid. > > Ok, fair enough. Let's say then that after walking a thousand miles in my shoes, they would become comfortable to you. Not *super* comfortable or anything, just the same amount of comfortable you could get by just going to the store and buying a different pair that fits better. The thing is, even if they do eventually become more comfortable, you still had to spend a lot of time being extremely uncomfortable to get to that point, which, I don't know, maybe some people like that kind of thing, but most don't. > So we assume that the shoes are smaller because if they are bigger then thats not an outcome that can happen. If after thousands of miles they are comfortable that means they streched and opened alot which means they arent what i originally wanted at which point why even bother. Unlike your example thou the armor will always look like it does, fit you perfectly and be nice and shiny. i know what im working towards it will never change no matter how long it takes. > So again, even in that scenario, *what is the benefit to anyone* in having you walk those thousand miles in ill-fitting shoes? > > I can understand aggressive self-interest, I can understand a company making a decision that is against their customers' interests because it benefits their bottom line. I just don't see the upside here, I don't see who's life is actually *improved* by this decision. > Im a consumer when it comes to anet's products and this decision is 100% compatable with my interests. If its not for you thou chances are as a youtuber i watch put it "you arent their target audience". Good thing this isnt the only thing to do and go after in game. Actually this is but a small side attraction compared to the entirety of the game and the majority of it is more akin to your tastes. > >You have total control over how the experience will play out either it will be frustratimg and take forever or it will be enjoyable and it will take less time or it wont be as enjoyable still but u will be able to do it faster. > > You have zero control over that. If your natural state is that it would frustrate you, then it will frustrate you. If your natural state is that it would be enjoyable then it would be enjoyable. You don't get to *pick.* > Its not black and white stop treating it like it is. aiv hated bosses till i learned them and now they dont annoy me. > >Also why do you care about the experience? Arent you after the reward? If you want an easier experience why not ask for that why should it include the reward as well? > > To result in a **net positive outcome,** in which both the journey and destination were enjoyable, rather than forcing a player to choose one or the other arbitrarily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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