"Story Mode" No

[Sykper.6583]

> @Tyson.5160 said:

> Which is sad because I believe it would allow more people to experience the content and build up more confidence resulting in the mode being less unapproachable...

 

The issue to ask is this:

 

"What is the main difference between someone who has not seen a mechanic from the normal raid encounter before, versus someone who has seen the easier version and is not aware of what the normal encounter changes?"

 

One of the most pressing issues with establishing a story-mode that would, with some intent, make people want to try the normal version of the encounter is if the mechanic requirement is 100% emphasized to not be ignored in either. If for example, a story-mode player learned that Vale Guardian's Green Circles are **not a threat** whatsoever and carried that knowledge into trying to his normal mode, their position to completing the normal encounter is actually _worse off_ than if they were fresh off the roster and haven't seen anything yet. Because for some time they've been actively avoiding dealing with the Green circle mechanic, now they have to given their role.

 

Story-mode, given its rewardless state, would not resolve any issues in getting new players into raiding. In fact, it could easier be responsible for an influx of new raiders who have no idea how to approach the proper encounter and cause mischief for it.

 

It is significantly easier for Arenanet to continue making the content difficult and instead rely on the community to bring up would-be raiders.

[Miellyn.6847]

> @Tyson.5160 said:

> Which is sad because I believe it would allow more people to experience the content and build up more confidence resulting in the mode being less unapproachable...

 

Everyone I know who wanted to raid can raid. First of all it is a mindset problem, not a problem with the content. There are many training guilds out there. Most people that complain here on the forums want a free ride with experienced players without experience and this is something you won't get with PUGs.

Raids are perfectly accessible if you don't expect to rush through them the first time you enter them. If you put in zero effort you won't get anywhere.

[Torolan.5816]

> @Miellyn.6847 said:

> > @Tyson.5160 said:

> > Which is sad because I believe it would allow more people to experience the content and build up more confidence resulting in the mode being less unapproachable...

>

> Everyone I know who wanted to raid can raid. First of all it is a mindset problem, not a problem with the content. There are many training guilds out there. Most people that complain here on the forums want a free ride with experienced players without experience and this is something you won't get with PUGs.

> Raids are perfectly accessible if you don't expect to rush through them the first time you enter them. If you put in zero effort you won't get anywhere.

 

This approach always angers me a bit. You paint it in a way that no one who does not raid has never put effort into GW2. I have plenty of AP, all the classic Fractal achievements, most weaponmaster achievments, deep in silver in wvw without setting much foot in EotM and loyaly playing on Millers Sound which was a punching bag for years, bear rank in pvp without win trading and 5 of my characters are all geared in ascended. I am pretty sure that my dedication to the game is probably higher than the large majority of people here and gamers in GW2 in general. I simply don´t like to run when I want to walk therefore I find the content of raids unfitting for a game with the initial intention of GW2, and that probably won´t change.

[Miellyn.6847]

> @Torolan.5816 said:

> > @Miellyn.6847 said:

> > > @Tyson.5160 said:

> > > Which is sad because I believe it would allow more people to experience the content and build up more confidence resulting in the mode being less unapproachable...

> >

> > Everyone I know who wanted to raid can raid. First of all it is a mindset problem, not a problem with the content. There are many training guilds out there. Most people that complain here on the forums want a free ride with experienced players without experience and this is something you won't get with PUGs.

> > Raids are perfectly accessible if you don't expect to rush through them the first time you enter them. If you put in zero effort you won't get anywhere.

>

> This approach always angers me a bit. You paint it in a way that no one who does not raid has never put effort into GW2. I have plenty of AP, all the classic Fractal achievements, most weaponmaster achievments, deep in silver in wvw without setting much foot in EotM and loyaly playing on Millers Sound which was a punching bag for years, bear rank in pvp without win trading and 5 of my characters are all geared in ascended. I am pretty sure that my dedication to the game is probably higher than the large majority of people here and gamers in GW2 in general. I simply don´t like to run when I want to walk therefore I find the content of raids unfitting for a game with the initial intention of GW2, and that probably won´t change.

 

ArenaNet always wanted to have raid like content in the game. Dungeons were supposed to fill that role but failed.

I don't know where people get those 'initial intentions' from when ArenaNet clearly stated before release they want hard group content.

[Henry.5713]

> @Torolan.5816 said:

> > @Miellyn.6847 said:

> > > @Tyson.5160 said:

> > > Which is sad because I believe it would allow more people to experience the content and build up more confidence resulting in the mode being less unapproachable...

> >

> > Everyone I know who wanted to raid can raid. First of all it is a mindset problem, not a problem with the content. There are many training guilds out there. Most people that complain here on the forums want a free ride with experienced players without experience and this is something you won't get with PUGs.

> > Raids are perfectly accessible if you don't expect to rush through them the first time you enter them. If you put in zero effort you won't get anywhere.

>

> This approach always angers me a bit. You paint it in a way that no one who does not raid has never put effort into GW2. I have plenty of AP, all the classic Fractal achievements, most weaponmaster achievments, deep in silver in wvw without setting much foot in EotM and loyaly playing on Millers Sound which was a punching bag for years, bear rank in pvp without win trading and 5 of my characters are all geared in ascended. I am pretty sure that my dedication to the game is probably higher than the large majority of people here and gamers in GW2 in general. I simply don´t like to run when I want to walk therefore I find the content of raids unfitting for a game with the initial intention of GW2, and that probably won´t change.

 

Since you mentioned WvW - nobody said WvW, PvP, achievement hunting or whatever you dedicate your time to do not take an equal amount of effort.

In fact, there were quite a few complaints about WvW after people realized how much time they'd have to dedicate to gain the legendary rewards. I am far from the required rank myself and yet I much rather see longterm rewards than even more handout content such as the LS3 map trinkets.

None of this would be an issue if people stopped feeling so very entitled to all of the rewards in this game. They wouldn't have to argue over which part of the game is harder, which content takes more effort or why wasting your time one way is so much better than wasting it another way.

 

> @STIHL.2489 said:

> > @meeflak.9714 said:

> > > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > > @meeflak.9714 said:

> > > > > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > > > > @meeflak.9714 said:

> > > > > > > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > > > > > > @Kenny.5826 said:

> > > > > > > > why not embrace the challenge and have a sense of accomplishment when you finally down a/that boss. Feel like the hero you were meant to be by bring down your enemy.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > **Truth?**

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Because after over a decade of raiding, I never felt like the hero.. I always felt like a rat in a maze. Raids were always more a grind-chore then a challenge where I was forced to constantly deal with people I didn't like and attitudes I can't stand.. I bit my tongue to all kinds of douchebagery all in the quest to grind out some stupid bit of loot just to remain top tier, for no other reason then to keep viable in raiding community.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I would much sooner quit this game, then ever go back to playing like that **again**.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And here you are again in another thread, comparing gw2 raids to other games......it's....not....the....same....game.......

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Whatever game you played before, whatever experiences you've had, are completely irrelevant when talking about raids in gw2.. gw2 had no gear treadmill, gw2 isn't a grind for gear stats to win kind of game.. you can raid in exotics and never look back. And even then ascended is just one step up and easily obtainable in the raids themselves.. you're not going to have to grind for months to gear re gear your toon every expansions.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The more I read your posts throughout the threads in this forum the more it becomes clear you don't understand how raids in gw2 work. You should really take the time to do some research before spreading negativity around the forums

> > > > >

> > > > > LOL, reality check, YOU the Players, **are all the same**, the game itself is irrelevant. Just because the mechanics of the raid a little different, does not change the elitist toxic mentality behind those that play it.

> > > > >

> > > > > If it did.. 'be a little more accepting.. but I have the read the same tripe you are saying today 10 years ago on another games forums.. **Always the same**.

> > > >

> > > > The vast majority of us aren't toxic. I'm not, the community I surround myself with are not. But here you are calling the whole raiding community toxic. Cutting them down. You're mindset, you're attitude, is what's toxic in this forums. More toxic then most raider's I know. You're the only one to blame for your bad attitude, move past the people who you disagree with, move past the people you find toxic.. make the experience what you want it to be.stop coming into the forums to offer nothing but negativity

> > >

> > > Sure you're not.. I'd said the same thing myself for years.

> > >

> > > Here is the truth, you only want this game mode so you can feel better then other people. If everyone could raid, it would lose it's shine and you and yours would cry for something else to set yourself apart as better then the unwashed masses.

> > >

> > > You call me Toxic because I want a game that is inclusive.. how wrong and bad of me to feel that everyone should be able to find their own journey and enjoy the game fully at their own pace. Yes, how wrong of me to want to include people, how toxic of me to want everyone to have fun.. I am such a horrible person for that, at least.. I am to people like you...

> >

> > Wow dude calm yourself. I never callled you toxic for the reasons you described . I called you toxic for well, being toxic. Your negative attitude, your close minded approach to conversation, and your impolite way of speaking to people. I don't care if you don't raid. Raider's aren't better then the rest of the community, because as I've said the whole community can raid if they so choose, and I'd continue to raid no matter how many people were able to clear it simply because it's the most engaging content in gw for me. The combat in this game is really fun, and raids do the best at stressing all areas of combat.

> >

> > I never once said including others is bad, I never said you're a horrible person. I never said anyone's better then anyone. Don't put words in my mouth.

> >

> > There's not much reason to keep responding to your you've done this same thing over many threads, and there's no use. You'll never look past your own negativity. This will be my last response to you on this subject.

>

> Hilarious.

>

> I love how you play off the Raiders full of egotism, elitism and toxic "i'm better then you" attitudes as the victims.

>

> Yes,, please let this your last response on the matter.

 

You sound so bitter. I feel sorry for you for whatever happened to you during your time raiding in other games.

[Torolan.5816]

So MO never said in the initial interviews that GW2 is the game you want to play when you do not want to be stuck in the same old circle? He also promised dynamic world events and he also failed with that. Granted, he did not specifically mention raids but the intention was pretty clear, GW2 should be a game with a really low barrier to step in and have fun from the beginning. I do not keep my gamestars from 6 years ago, but the come as you are and play what you like without falling behind shone through every sentence. And raids breaks these ideas by default, elsewise they would not be raids.

 

I can kind of understand it though, it was the same problems as always: People burned through content way to quick and all they knew as answer was raids, because that is all they had been fed with for decades. Colin Johanson even admitted it when HoT was introduced, players asked for raids. How many and how frequent, i can´t say.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @Torolan.5816 said:

> I can kind of understand it though, it was the same problems as always: People burned through content way to quick and all they knew as answer was raids, because that is all they had been fed with for decades. Colin Johanson even admitted it when HoT was introduced, players asked for raids. How many and how frequent, i can´t say.

 

Players burned through the content and the developers feared about the longevity of the game, that's why they added Ascended back in November 2012.

The reason behind all that swift, more challenging instanced content that rewards next tier of gear, was because the game was losing active players rapidly.

 

There are 3 ways to increase longevity in a game (in any combination):

Make things random with very low chances, so you have to repeat playing an unknown number of times to get what you want

Add an excessive grind to get something, this is similar to the above, but the number of repetitions is predetermined

Use Challenging content, so the barrier to the rewards is the skill level

 

All of the above serve the same purpose: not make everything available quickly.

Instant/easy availability kills games and even Guild Wars 2 was suffering from it and they tried with various degrees of success to solve that problem.

[Torolan.5816]

So in essence it was all marketing blubber about being new and innovative and now we´re back right at square one in general.

[Henry.5713]

Sometimes wonder why people feel the need to quote ancient articels and interviews about the possible future direction of the game to backup their arguements against any content or change they seem to dislike personally. Probably why developers are so careful to only give answers which can mean absolutely everything and basically nothing at the same time nowadays.

Looking back like that does nothing more than illuminate how many years have actually passed and make us think about all of the changes they had to make to keep the game relevant or even alive. After all, many past perceptions and forecasts turn out to be an error of judgment over time or will have to be adjusted to fit an everchanging zeitgeist. Gaming has changed quite a lot over the years and will continue to change.

 

Even if you were to take those interviews as the law, the game is still the one to play for anyone going in and out of playing for long periods of time. That has not changed at all. You do not fall behind in any way if you decide not to raid or avoid any content. This feeling of falling behind only comes from a mental barrier you force yourself. The level cap did not change, the gear tier did not change. The core ideas which drove people to choose GW2 as their game are still relevant.

Mostly picked the game for sPvP myself. It was unheard of back then to not be required to grind new gear every year or so be on equal terms in PvP. Guess what, this is still as true in 2017 as it was in 2012. This game is just as casual friendly as it has ever been but also provides content for the less-casual now.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @Torolan.5816 said:

> So in essence it was all marketing blubber about being new and innovative and now we´re back right at square one in general.

 

Remember one time events? They failed.

It changed to non-repeating season episodes every 2 weeks. It failed too.

 

You are wrong about innovation. After the success of Guild Wars 2 many mmorpgs incorporate features of it now.

I don't see them removing the dynamic events any time soon.

We won't see shared resource nodes either, every player still gets their own nodes.

Shared loot and experience without mob tagging is here to stay.

 

They promised many things for this game, some failed, others succeeded and still exist, and even prompted other mmorpgs to copy them. Guild Wars 2 is still an innovating game.

[Cynz.9437]

> @AstralDusk.1670 said:

> Nobody wants to compete in the Olympics when it's their first time swimming. A toned-down, low-or-no-reward version would grow the community a little more.

 

^^ basically this.

While i understand raids are high-end content, there should be some ways for inexperienced players to start with those (outside of training raids which get trolled a lot actually). The raiding community is actually pretty small, it would be nice to get few more players.

 

In pVp we have HJs and unranked for new/inexperienced players, why can't raids have that?

 

As far as 2 hours argument - that works only for set guild groups. If you start to pug it takes ages to complete all wings, definitely more than 2 hours. There is always waiting timing to fill the group, always someone screws up, always someone with bad inet so you have to search for new player to fill your group etc. Sure, you can join a guild as new player but chances for actually doing raids with guildies are extremely low that you have more chances to pug, tbh (coming from personal experience when i first started raiding myself).

[Torolan.5816]

I am not stupid, I don´t hold Anet hostage with the line of reasoning they had 6 years ago. I know business models change or have to change. And yes, I am probably also a little bit dissapointed and salty about how that innovative idea of come as you are has collapsed under the pressure of demanding players, technical limitations and marketing blubber. I won´t raid and I don´t want the ring, but the legendary armor upset me pretty much when it was exclusive because I find ascended armor is already expensive to have and the exclusivity made me a second class player if I would vstand by my decision to not bend over and raid. That´s a thing of the past now.

 

I am not sure if I can follow you though: How does a raid fit into the rest of the GW2 content? You cannot break away from a raid after 10 minutes, you get nothing. You can break away from wvw or pvp after 10 minutes, you may have easily earned wxp or finished a match in that time. This makes me realize that GW2 is just a cookie cutter MMO game now, and that makes me a litte sad to be honest.

[tekfan.3179]

I'd love a solo-mode. All mechanics that are parallel changed into successive sequences. I want a harsh training ground so I know what I'm doing when I finally start raiding with groups. Not a passive golem I can train rotations on, but an environment where I need to stay alive, do mechanics and deal damage. Heck, for all I care make it harder for a single person to complete than a normal raid for a group. As long as the mechanics don't make it impossible for a single person.

No rewards, except for maybe some rares you can feed to the provisioners.

And when someone manages to beat every solo wing multiple times on their own, give them a title to show it.

 

Let's face it: Beating the crap out of a passive golem to learn rotations from a guide and watching youtube-video to get a hang of events, bosses and mechanics is several tries away from actually succeeding at it. I want a chance to train myself without nine other people having the option to kick me out because they just want the rewards as fast as possible.

[sigur.9453]

> @tekfan.3179 said:

> I'd love a solo-mode. All mechanics that are parallel changed into successive sequences. I want a harsh training ground so I know what I'm doing when I finally start raiding with groups. Not a passive golem I can train rotations on, but an environment where I need to stay alive, do mechanics and deal damage. Heck, for all I care make it harder for a single person to complete than a normal raid for a group. As long as the mechanics don't make it impossible for a single person.

> No rewards, except for maybe some rares you can feed to the provisioners.

> And when someone manages to beat every solo wing multiple times on their own, give them a title to show it.

>

> Let's face it: Beating the crap out of a passive golem to learn rotations from a guide and watching youtube-video to get a hang of events, bosses and mechanics is several tries away from actually succeeding at it. I want a chance to train myself without nine other people having the option to kick me out because they just want the rewards as fast as possible.

 

i would actually like challenging solo content. But rather a complety new thing. Reworking all Raid mechanics would probaply be harder then start something new from scatch.

If you don´t want to be kicked, make an own squad. Sorry to repeat that, but that will fix that problem 100%. As far as i understand you are already watching videos and training you rotaton, you are almost there! keep it up!

[Draco.9480]

I like zis, but I prefer the raids even harder than what they're.

[STIHL.2489]

> @Henry.5713 said:

> You sound so bitter. I feel sorry for you for whatever happened to you during your time raiding in other games.

 

It was like recovering from a drug addiction, I didn't realize how really bad it was when I was doing it, but over time, it dawns on you, how truly heinous and devoid of social grace some of these people are. They are this embodiment of Juvenal delinquent mentality where the feel fully entitled to ridicule anyone and everyone for not playing they way they think the game should be played. I put up with it all for the sake of some digital bauble, I turned a blind eye to it, and in some cases I even justified it. Most likely said many of the same things you are saying today.

 

But it's not healthy, it's Like doing drugs, It's impossible to explain to someone how really bad it is when they are addicted, how much it really ruins the game and the community, how truly damaging it is, and everyone in the raid community, either, will turn a blind eye or justify their actions. Much in the same way Alcoholics will always deny they have a problem and justify their drinking.

 

It is, what it is.

 

Maybe one day, you will realize it.. maybe not.

[meeflak.9714]

> @STIHL.2489 said:

> > @Henry.5713 said:

> > You sound so bitter. I feel sorry for you for whatever happened to you during your time raiding in other games.

>

> It was like recovering from a drug addiction, I didn't realize how really bad it was when I was doing it, but over time, it dawns on you, how truly heinous and devoid of social grace some of these people are. They are this embodiment of Juvenal delinquent mentality where the feel fully entitled to ridicule anyone and everyone for not playing they way they think the game should be played. I put up with it all for the sake of some digital bauble, I turned a blind eye to it, and in some cases I even justified it. Most likely said many of the same things you are saying today.

>

> But it's not healthy, it's Like doing drugs, It's impossible to explain to someone how really bad it is when they are addicted, how much it really ruins the game and the community, how truly damaging it is, and everyone in the raid community, either, will turn a blind eye or justify their actions. Much in the same way Alcoholics will always deny they have a problem and justify their drinking.

>

> It is, what it is.

>

> Maybe one day, you will realize it.. maybe not.

 

Not everyone in the raiding community has these problems though =/ that's the thing. There can he toxicity in all aspects of the game, and there always will be. People rage over failed metas, people rage over a PvP lose. People rage over raids. Not everyone is toxic and the raiding community as a whole shouldnt be look at as being toxic because of the outliers, or a some preconceptions you may have from past experiences =( you know what I mean ? I absolutely love the people Ive met through raids. Not all of them of course, there are those too toxic to bear. But many many people I've met are fun, lovable gamer's like anyone else. It's really really unfair to judge the whole community so heavily. We're just having fun man

[Velran.1052]

> @STIHL.2489 said:

> > @Henry.5713 said:

> > You sound so bitter. I feel sorry for you for whatever happened to you during your time raiding in other games.

>

> It was like recovering from a drug addiction, I didn't realize how really bad it was when I was doing it, but over time, it dawns on you, how truly heinous and devoid of social grace some of these people are. They are this embodiment of Juvenal delinquent mentality where the feel fully entitled to ridicule anyone and everyone for not playing they way they think the game should be played. I put up with it all for the sake of some digital bauble, I turned a blind eye to it, and in some cases I even justified it. Most likely said many of the same things you are saying today.

>

> But it's not healthy, it's Like doing drugs, It's impossible to explain to someone how really bad it is when they are addicted, how much it really ruins the game and the community, how truly damaging it is, and everyone in the raid community, either, will turn a blind eye or justify their actions. Much in the same way Alcoholics will always deny they have a problem and justify their drinking.

>

> It is, what it is.

>

> Maybe one day, you will realize it.. maybe not.

 

No they don't. They realize its a problem but refuse to deal with it. And ridiculing other players isn't toxic, As long as it isn't flat out verbal abuse. If someone starts a group he has the right to demand anything that he wants, And if you disagree go ahead and make your own group, see how that works for you. And get off your high horse, Using fancy words and claiming your words as the truth isn't getting you anywhere.

 

Besides that, easy mode would simply waste development time as it is much more than lowering numbers. You would know this if you ever watched/killed a raid boss, but uh...

[STIHL.2489]

> @meeflak.9714 said:

> > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > @Henry.5713 said:

> > > You sound so bitter. I feel sorry for you for whatever happened to you during your time raiding in other games.

> >

> > It was like recovering from a drug addiction, I didn't realize how really bad it was when I was doing it, but over time, it dawns on you, how truly heinous and devoid of social grace some of these people are. They are this embodiment of Juvenal delinquent mentality where the feel fully entitled to ridicule anyone and everyone for not playing they way they think the game should be played. I put up with it all for the sake of some digital bauble, I turned a blind eye to it, and in some cases I even justified it. Most likely said many of the same things you are saying today.

> >

> > But it's not healthy, it's Like doing drugs, It's impossible to explain to someone how really bad it is when they are addicted, how much it really ruins the game and the community, how truly damaging it is, and everyone in the raid community, either, will turn a blind eye or justify their actions. Much in the same way Alcoholics will always deny they have a problem and justify their drinking.

> >

> > It is, what it is.

> >

> > Maybe one day, you will realize it.. maybe not.

>

> Not everyone in the raiding community has these problems though =/ that's the thing. There can he toxicity in all aspects of the game, and there always will be. People rage over failed metas, people rage over a PvP lose. People rage over raids. Not everyone is toxic and the raiding community as a whole shouldnt be look at as being toxic because of the outliers, or a some preconceptions you may have from past experiences =( you know what I mean ? I absolutely love the people Ive met through raids. Not all of them of course, there are those too toxic to bear. But many many people I've met are fun, lovable gamer's like anyone else. It's really really unfair to judge the whole community so heavily. We're just having fun man

 

> @Velran.1052 said:

> > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > @Henry.5713 said:

> > > You sound so bitter. I feel sorry for you for whatever happened to you during your time raiding in other games.

> >

> > It was like recovering from a drug addiction, I didn't realize how really bad it was when I was doing it, but over time, it dawns on you, how truly heinous and devoid of social grace some of these people are. They are this embodiment of Juvenal delinquent mentality where the feel fully entitled to ridicule anyone and everyone for not playing they way they think the game should be played. I put up with it all for the sake of some digital bauble, I turned a blind eye to it, and in some cases I even justified it. Most likely said many of the same things you are saying today.

> >

> > But it's not healthy, it's Like doing drugs, It's impossible to explain to someone how really bad it is when they are addicted, how much it really ruins the game and the community, how truly damaging it is, and everyone in the raid community, either, will turn a blind eye or justify their actions. Much in the same way Alcoholics will always deny they have a problem and justify their drinking.

> >

> > It is, what it is.

> >

> > Maybe one day, you will realize it.. maybe not.

>

> No they don't. They realize its a problem but refuse to deal with it. **And ridiculing other players isn't toxic**, As long as it isn't flat out verbal abuse. If someone starts a group he has the right to demand anything that he wants, And if you disagree go ahead and make your own group, see how that works for you. And get off your high horse, Using fancy words and claiming your words as the truth isn't getting you anywhere.

>

> Besides that, easy mode would simply waste development time as it is much more than lowering numbers. You would know this if you ever watched/killed a raid boss, but uh...

 

Wanna read this a few times @meeflak.9714

 

See this - "Ridiculing other players is not toxic"

 

That's your community in a nutshell.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @STIHL.2489 said:

> > @meeflak.9714 said:

> > > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > > @Henry.5713 said:

> > > > You sound so bitter. I feel sorry for you for whatever happened to you during your time raiding in other games.

> > >

> > > It was like recovering from a drug addiction, I didn't realize how really bad it was when I was doing it, but over time, it dawns on you, how truly heinous and devoid of social grace some of these people are. They are this embodiment of Juvenal delinquent mentality where the feel fully entitled to ridicule anyone and everyone for not playing they way they think the game should be played. I put up with it all for the sake of some digital bauble, I turned a blind eye to it, and in some cases I even justified it. Most likely said many of the same things you are saying today.

> > >

> > > But it's not healthy, it's Like doing drugs, It's impossible to explain to someone how really bad it is when they are addicted, how much it really ruins the game and the community, how truly damaging it is, and everyone in the raid community, either, will turn a blind eye or justify their actions. Much in the same way Alcoholics will always deny they have a problem and justify their drinking.

> > >

> > > It is, what it is.

> > >

> > > Maybe one day, you will realize it.. maybe not.

> >

> > Not everyone in the raiding community has these problems though =/ that's the thing. There can he toxicity in all aspects of the game, and there always will be. People rage over failed metas, people rage over a PvP lose. People rage over raids. Not everyone is toxic and the raiding community as a whole shouldnt be look at as being toxic because of the outliers, or a some preconceptions you may have from past experiences =( you know what I mean ? I absolutely love the people Ive met through raids. Not all of them of course, there are those too toxic to bear. But many many people I've met are fun, lovable gamer's like anyone else. It's really really unfair to judge the whole community so heavily. We're just having fun man

>

> > @Velran.1052 said:

> > > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > > @Henry.5713 said:

> > > > You sound so bitter. I feel sorry for you for whatever happened to you during your time raiding in other games.

> > >

> > > It was like recovering from a drug addiction, I didn't realize how really bad it was when I was doing it, but over time, it dawns on you, how truly heinous and devoid of social grace some of these people are. They are this embodiment of Juvenal delinquent mentality where the feel fully entitled to ridicule anyone and everyone for not playing they way they think the game should be played. I put up with it all for the sake of some digital bauble, I turned a blind eye to it, and in some cases I even justified it. Most likely said many of the same things you are saying today.

> > >

> > > But it's not healthy, it's Like doing drugs, It's impossible to explain to someone how really bad it is when they are addicted, how much it really ruins the game and the community, how truly damaging it is, and everyone in the raid community, either, will turn a blind eye or justify their actions. Much in the same way Alcoholics will always deny they have a problem and justify their drinking.

> > >

> > > It is, what it is.

> > >

> > > Maybe one day, you will realize it.. maybe not.

> >

> > No they don't. They realize its a problem but refuse to deal with it. **And ridiculing other players isn't toxic**, As long as it isn't flat out verbal abuse. If someone starts a group he has the right to demand anything that he wants, And if you disagree go ahead and make your own group, see how that works for you. And get off your high horse, Using fancy words and claiming your words as the truth isn't getting you anywhere.

> >

> > Besides that, easy mode would simply waste development time as it is much more than lowering numbers. You would know this if you ever watched/killed a raid boss, but uh...

>

> Wanna read this a few times @meeflak.9714

>

> See this - "Ridiculing other players is not toxic"

>

> That's your community in a nutshell.

 

While I do not agree with Velran and I do think ridiculing others is never okay. I do think his choice of words were inappropriate or incorrect from the context of the rest of his post and I agree that every one can make their own group with their own demands from people joining.

 

On the topic of ridicule and toxicity though, there is select forum regulars that by their own account are not enjoying the game yet still spend a lot of times on these forums spreading their bile. I'd see that as no less toxic than elitists in game who are abusive of inexperienced players.

[Vulf.3098]

A few bad pug groups doesn't account for the whole raid community and this applies to WvW and PvP as well. I used to exclusively pug for several years across multiple games and the amount of groups I have run across with that kind of behavior was small. The great thing about it was the second those said groups starting name calling and raging at each other I left for a new group. I was not forced to stay there.

 

The only true way to avoid toxic people is to play solo.