GrubySzymek.1362 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"flog.3485" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > @"Turin.6921" said: > > > > > > > I love how people are still discussing about fractals and if they are casual or not after the dev very clearly stated in this very thread the philosophy of each tier. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys t4 are supposed to be the hardest content for 5-man PvE. T1-3 are miles easier than fractals have ever been. If you do not understand that then you clearly never tried to level up with the old system before HoT. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are saying fractals now are too long. The old system made you to run 4 of them in one go or you did not get rewards. No matter how long a fractal gets it would never get as long the length of a single run back then. AR availability did not scale well with level and you had to farm the same level over and over again to increase you AR. Also nobody seems to remember the insane toughness scaling right after HoT for 50+ levels that made every fight insanely long and repetitive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fractals are more accessible than they have ever been in the game´s lifetime. If you want sth akin to dungeon difficulty stick with T2. These are supposed to represent the typical dungeon difficulty. Just because T4 is there it does not mean that you have to do it. They are only there for those that have fun with the challenge. And if you want the gold rewards they are 10 different alternatives to farm gold besides for T4 fractals in the open world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Talindra.4958" said: > > > > > > > > i feel that those players are missing out and many distant themselves from the challenging content not because they didn't want to play, they just couldn't .. its just too hard for them to catch up to the speed - maybe due to not able to play hardcore or perhaps other reasons.. I would love to be able to take anyone, anyone to t4 at least.. if not 100cm, but it is impossible with the way the game is set up, we don't mind 3 men t4 but people will not be able to enjoy the run with us without having proper gearing at least the required AR and theres soo much mechanics involve in all the recent updates... There is no reason for us to do low level fractal again on daily basis because it does not benefit us at all. The reason we are doing t4 is the daily reward and liquid gold and the reason I am doing 100cm is the infusion drop - ofc i never get them... > > > > > > > > Back in the good old days, we can take anyone.. absolutely anyone into dungeon and have a full run with them.. it was so much fun during that time.. so so much fun, everyone basically from all background can enjoy it. i do CMs + t4 if not daily.. quite frequently and wing 1-4 under approx. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I apologize if i come out a bit hard but this comes out as amazingly selfish. If you enjoy playing with these other people then play T2 with them. The rewards should not be a factor if you are having fun playing with others. Additionally these less hardcore ppl can use your experience and learn with your help and eventually bring them to a level that they can do t4 with you if they want. Saying I want to be able to play with anyone but i do not, cause i do not get enough gold for it does not scream comradery to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > Just because dev said sth it doesn't mean people must agree with him :) > > > > > > > > > > > > If not for constant whining you would never ride a mount in GW2. Or raid :) > > > > > > > > > > Absolutely, you don't have to agree with the developers on THEIR vision of the game (which hopefully is backed by their data and metrics to player activity). > > > > > > > > > > Arguing from that standpoint though is way different and definitely not an argument on equal footing with people who are not opposed to the current design and plan. > > > > > > > > > > Something many seem to forget when posting their wishes and demands. > > > > > > > > You are just a player. You are irrelevant from my point of view :) > > > > > > > > Since I do not like new direction of new fractals I'm going to remind devs about it, just like others should, so maybe at one point they'll reconsider their flawed perspective of new fractal developement approach :) > > > > > > Yeah, then why bother arguing at all in a forum where 99% of your interaction is with other players? But I get it, I'd sing the same tune if my desire and argumentation towards how I want the game to be got shot down this badly. > > > > > > You are correct though, keep reminding the developers of what you want. Make sure to tell people though that you are not looking for discussion but are just putting up your ideas which are absolute. Do expect to receive push back on a forum where every one is entitled to their opinions and don't get discouraged if your unrealistic expectation are never met. > > > > > > In the meantime the developers will do what any good developer will do: > > > > > > - they will stick to their vision > > > - they will make sure their design and vision is backed by player numbers and metrics > > > - they will ignore you until there is a drastic shift in player behavior which warrants change > > > > > > TL;DR: keep running against a wall with unrealistic expectations of breaking it down. Maybe there is a shift in seismic activity which makes the wall crumble. Stop bothering others whose house uses part of that wall. > > > > But Anet changed their vision many times. One of changes was introducing raiding in expense of easier, more popular instanced content. Question is, why are they now good developers? Because they did what you want and you are trying to manipulate the discussion to make unhappy customers look irrational while it was you, raiders, complaining about the game for full 3 years until you got what you wanted :) > > I don't think you quite understand why people wanting a challenge were complaining :) The thing is, Anet wanted some form of challenge out of the game. It was supposed to be in explorable modes of dungeons. Ant it was just a big fail imo because it was just too easy, for most of the encounters, to just stack in a corner and dps down a boss. > > You could argue then that players would go fractals. But back then it was just tedious to play, to gain some AR, and worst of all you needed to actually complete 3 fractals just to gain the final chest reward. Most of players would rather just replay the easy dungeons while making a huge profit off it, which is another huge flaw of dungeons imo: the lack of incentives to play the hardest dungeon paths back in the day because one easy dungeon path would reward you the same base amount of gold that one hard dungeon path. > > And frankly, even without going into dungeons or fractals, PvE experience became quite dull after some time. After doing plenty of world boss trains, Plinx and frostgorge failed events, silverwaste and dry tops, it felt more fun to play PvP or even WvW, except maybe for the occasional Tequatl and triple trouble. > > To me, Open world became really fun and relevant once HoT was introduced. > > So yeah they have every right to make fractals challenging when you reach T4. If you can't handle it, don't have AR, just go play the fractal you want at an easier tier. > > And tryhard crowd got raids. There is no reason to pollute fractals with the same mentality and design and this is what people complain about here :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flog.3485 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"flog.3485" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > @"Turin.6921" said: > > > > > > > > I love how people are still discussing about fractals and if they are casual or not after the dev very clearly stated in this very thread the philosophy of each tier. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys t4 are supposed to be the hardest content for 5-man PvE. T1-3 are miles easier than fractals have ever been. If you do not understand that then you clearly never tried to level up with the old system before HoT. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are saying fractals now are too long. The old system made you to run 4 of them in one go or you did not get rewards. No matter how long a fractal gets it would never get as long the length of a single run back then. AR availability did not scale well with level and you had to farm the same level over and over again to increase you AR. Also nobody seems to remember the insane toughness scaling right after HoT for 50+ levels that made every fight insanely long and repetitive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fractals are more accessible than they have ever been in the game´s lifetime. If you want sth akin to dungeon difficulty stick with T2. These are supposed to represent the typical dungeon difficulty. Just because T4 is there it does not mean that you have to do it. They are only there for those that have fun with the challenge. And if you want the gold rewards they are 10 different alternatives to farm gold besides for T4 fractals in the open world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Talindra.4958" said: > > > > > > > > > i feel that those players are missing out and many distant themselves from the challenging content not because they didn't want to play, they just couldn't .. its just too hard for them to catch up to the speed - maybe due to not able to play hardcore or perhaps other reasons.. I would love to be able to take anyone, anyone to t4 at least.. if not 100cm, but it is impossible with the way the game is set up, we don't mind 3 men t4 but people will not be able to enjoy the run with us without having proper gearing at least the required AR and theres soo much mechanics involve in all the recent updates... There is no reason for us to do low level fractal again on daily basis because it does not benefit us at all. The reason we are doing t4 is the daily reward and liquid gold and the reason I am doing 100cm is the infusion drop - ofc i never get them... > > > > > > > > > Back in the good old days, we can take anyone.. absolutely anyone into dungeon and have a full run with them.. it was so much fun during that time.. so so much fun, everyone basically from all background can enjoy it. i do CMs + t4 if not daily.. quite frequently and wing 1-4 under approx. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I apologize if i come out a bit hard but this comes out as amazingly selfish. If you enjoy playing with these other people then play T2 with them. The rewards should not be a factor if you are having fun playing with others. Additionally these less hardcore ppl can use your experience and learn with your help and eventually bring them to a level that they can do t4 with you if they want. Saying I want to be able to play with anyone but i do not, cause i do not get enough gold for it does not scream comradery to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just because dev said sth it doesn't mean people must agree with him :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If not for constant whining you would never ride a mount in GW2. Or raid :) > > > > > > > > > > > > Absolutely, you don't have to agree with the developers on THEIR vision of the game (which hopefully is backed by their data and metrics to player activity). > > > > > > > > > > > > Arguing from that standpoint though is way different and definitely not an argument on equal footing with people who are not opposed to the current design and plan. > > > > > > > > > > > > Something many seem to forget when posting their wishes and demands. > > > > > > > > > > You are just a player. You are irrelevant from my point of view :) > > > > > > > > > > Since I do not like new direction of new fractals I'm going to remind devs about it, just like others should, so maybe at one point they'll reconsider their flawed perspective of new fractal developement approach :) > > > > > > > > Yeah, then why bother arguing at all in a forum where 99% of your interaction is with other players? But I get it, I'd sing the same tune if my desire and argumentation towards how I want the game to be got shot down this badly. > > > > > > > > You are correct though, keep reminding the developers of what you want. Make sure to tell people though that you are not looking for discussion but are just putting up your ideas which are absolute. Do expect to receive push back on a forum where every one is entitled to their opinions and don't get discouraged if your unrealistic expectation are never met. > > > > > > > > In the meantime the developers will do what any good developer will do: > > > > > > > > - they will stick to their vision > > > > - they will make sure their design and vision is backed by player numbers and metrics > > > > - they will ignore you until there is a drastic shift in player behavior which warrants change > > > > > > > > TL;DR: keep running against a wall with unrealistic expectations of breaking it down. Maybe there is a shift in seismic activity which makes the wall crumble. Stop bothering others whose house uses part of that wall. > > > > > > But Anet changed their vision many times. One of changes was introducing raiding in expense of easier, more popular instanced content. Question is, why are they now good developers? Because they did what you want and you are trying to manipulate the discussion to make unhappy customers look irrational while it was you, raiders, complaining about the game for full 3 years until you got what you wanted :) > > > > I don't think you quite understand why people wanting a challenge were complaining :) The thing is, Anet wanted some form of challenge out of the game. It was supposed to be in explorable modes of dungeons. Ant it was just a big fail imo because it was just too easy, for most of the encounters, to just stack in a corner and dps down a boss. > > > > You could argue then that players would go fractals. But back then it was just tedious to play, to gain some AR, and worst of all you needed to actually complete 3 fractals just to gain the final chest reward. Most of players would rather just replay the easy dungeons while making a huge profit off it, which is another huge flaw of dungeons imo: the lack of incentives to play the hardest dungeon paths back in the day because one easy dungeon path would reward you the same base amount of gold that one hard dungeon path. > > > > And frankly, even without going into dungeons or fractals, PvE experience became quite dull after some time. After doing plenty of world boss trains, Plinx and frostgorge failed events, silverwaste and dry tops, it felt more fun to play PvP or even WvW, except maybe for the occasional Tequatl and triple trouble. > > > > To me, Open world became really fun and relevant once HoT was introduced. > > > > So yeah they have every right to make fractals challenging when you reach T4. If you can't handle it, don't have AR, just go play the fractal you want at an easier tier. > > > > > > And tryhard crowd got raids. There is no reason to pollute fractals with the same mentality and design and this is what people complain about here :) And difficulty complainers have open world, dungeons and easier tiers of fractals :) So what is the problem actually ? :) I still haven't gone through t2 fractals and mostly stay in and play open world and yet I am not complaining. How is that even possible according to you ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"flog.3485" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"flog.3485" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Turin.6921" said: > > > > > > > > > I love how people are still discussing about fractals and if they are casual or not after the dev very clearly stated in this very thread the philosophy of each tier. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys t4 are supposed to be the hardest content for 5-man PvE. T1-3 are miles easier than fractals have ever been. If you do not understand that then you clearly never tried to level up with the old system before HoT. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are saying fractals now are too long. The old system made you to run 4 of them in one go or you did not get rewards. No matter how long a fractal gets it would never get as long the length of a single run back then. AR availability did not scale well with level and you had to farm the same level over and over again to increase you AR. Also nobody seems to remember the insane toughness scaling right after HoT for 50+ levels that made every fight insanely long and repetitive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fractals are more accessible than they have ever been in the game´s lifetime. If you want sth akin to dungeon difficulty stick with T2. These are supposed to represent the typical dungeon difficulty. Just because T4 is there it does not mean that you have to do it. They are only there for those that have fun with the challenge. And if you want the gold rewards they are 10 different alternatives to farm gold besides for T4 fractals in the open world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Talindra.4958" said: > > > > > > > > > > i feel that those players are missing out and many distant themselves from the challenging content not because they didn't want to play, they just couldn't .. its just too hard for them to catch up to the speed - maybe due to not able to play hardcore or perhaps other reasons.. I would love to be able to take anyone, anyone to t4 at least.. if not 100cm, but it is impossible with the way the game is set up, we don't mind 3 men t4 but people will not be able to enjoy the run with us without having proper gearing at least the required AR and theres soo much mechanics involve in all the recent updates... There is no reason for us to do low level fractal again on daily basis because it does not benefit us at all. The reason we are doing t4 is the daily reward and liquid gold and the reason I am doing 100cm is the infusion drop - ofc i never get them... > > > > > > > > > > Back in the good old days, we can take anyone.. absolutely anyone into dungeon and have a full run with them.. it was so much fun during that time.. so so much fun, everyone basically from all background can enjoy it. i do CMs + t4 if not daily.. quite frequently and wing 1-4 under approx. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I apologize if i come out a bit hard but this comes out as amazingly selfish. If you enjoy playing with these other people then play T2 with them. The rewards should not be a factor if you are having fun playing with others. Additionally these less hardcore ppl can use your experience and learn with your help and eventually bring them to a level that they can do t4 with you if they want. Saying I want to be able to play with anyone but i do not, cause i do not get enough gold for it does not scream comradery to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just because dev said sth it doesn't mean people must agree with him :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If not for constant whining you would never ride a mount in GW2. Or raid :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Absolutely, you don't have to agree with the developers on THEIR vision of the game (which hopefully is backed by their data and metrics to player activity). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Arguing from that standpoint though is way different and definitely not an argument on equal footing with people who are not opposed to the current design and plan. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Something many seem to forget when posting their wishes and demands. > > > > > > > > > > > > You are just a player. You are irrelevant from my point of view :) > > > > > > > > > > > > Since I do not like new direction of new fractals I'm going to remind devs about it, just like others should, so maybe at one point they'll reconsider their flawed perspective of new fractal developement approach :) > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, then why bother arguing at all in a forum where 99% of your interaction is with other players? But I get it, I'd sing the same tune if my desire and argumentation towards how I want the game to be got shot down this badly. > > > > > > > > > > You are correct though, keep reminding the developers of what you want. Make sure to tell people though that you are not looking for discussion but are just putting up your ideas which are absolute. Do expect to receive push back on a forum where every one is entitled to their opinions and don't get discouraged if your unrealistic expectation are never met. > > > > > > > > > > In the meantime the developers will do what any good developer will do: > > > > > > > > > > - they will stick to their vision > > > > > - they will make sure their design and vision is backed by player numbers and metrics > > > > > - they will ignore you until there is a drastic shift in player behavior which warrants change > > > > > > > > > > TL;DR: keep running against a wall with unrealistic expectations of breaking it down. Maybe there is a shift in seismic activity which makes the wall crumble. Stop bothering others whose house uses part of that wall. > > > > > > > > But Anet changed their vision many times. One of changes was introducing raiding in expense of easier, more popular instanced content. Question is, why are they now good developers? Because they did what you want and you are trying to manipulate the discussion to make unhappy customers look irrational while it was you, raiders, complaining about the game for full 3 years until you got what you wanted :) > > > > > > I don't think you quite understand why people wanting a challenge were complaining :) The thing is, Anet wanted some form of challenge out of the game. It was supposed to be in explorable modes of dungeons. Ant it was just a big fail imo because it was just too easy, for most of the encounters, to just stack in a corner and dps down a boss. > > > > > > You could argue then that players would go fractals. But back then it was just tedious to play, to gain some AR, and worst of all you needed to actually complete 3 fractals just to gain the final chest reward. Most of players would rather just replay the easy dungeons while making a huge profit off it, which is another huge flaw of dungeons imo: the lack of incentives to play the hardest dungeon paths back in the day because one easy dungeon path would reward you the same base amount of gold that one hard dungeon path. > > > > > > And frankly, even without going into dungeons or fractals, PvE experience became quite dull after some time. After doing plenty of world boss trains, Plinx and frostgorge failed events, silverwaste and dry tops, it felt more fun to play PvP or even WvW, except maybe for the occasional Tequatl and triple trouble. > > > > > > To me, Open world became really fun and relevant once HoT was introduced. > > > > > > So yeah they have every right to make fractals challenging when you reach T4. If you can't handle it, don't have AR, just go play the fractal you want at an easier tier. > > > > > > > > > > And tryhard crowd got raids. There is no reason to pollute fractals with the same mentality and design and this is what people complain about here :) > > And difficulty complainers have open world, dungeons and easier tiers of fractals :) So what is the problem actually ? :) You question has been answered multiple times in this thread :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flog.3485 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"flog.3485" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"flog.3485" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Turin.6921" said: > > > > > > > > > > I love how people are still discussing about fractals and if they are casual or not after the dev very clearly stated in this very thread the philosophy of each tier. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys t4 are supposed to be the hardest content for 5-man PvE. T1-3 are miles easier than fractals have ever been. If you do not understand that then you clearly never tried to level up with the old system before HoT. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are saying fractals now are too long. The old system made you to run 4 of them in one go or you did not get rewards. No matter how long a fractal gets it would never get as long the length of a single run back then. AR availability did not scale well with level and you had to farm the same level over and over again to increase you AR. Also nobody seems to remember the insane toughness scaling right after HoT for 50+ levels that made every fight insanely long and repetitive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fractals are more accessible than they have ever been in the game´s lifetime. If you want sth akin to dungeon difficulty stick with T2. These are supposed to represent the typical dungeon difficulty. Just because T4 is there it does not mean that you have to do it. They are only there for those that have fun with the challenge. And if you want the gold rewards they are 10 different alternatives to farm gold besides for T4 fractals in the open world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Talindra.4958" said: > > > > > > > > > > > i feel that those players are missing out and many distant themselves from the challenging content not because they didn't want to play, they just couldn't .. its just too hard for them to catch up to the speed - maybe due to not able to play hardcore or perhaps other reasons.. I would love to be able to take anyone, anyone to t4 at least.. if not 100cm, but it is impossible with the way the game is set up, we don't mind 3 men t4 but people will not be able to enjoy the run with us without having proper gearing at least the required AR and theres soo much mechanics involve in all the recent updates... There is no reason for us to do low level fractal again on daily basis because it does not benefit us at all. The reason we are doing t4 is the daily reward and liquid gold and the reason I am doing 100cm is the infusion drop - ofc i never get them... > > > > > > > > > > > Back in the good old days, we can take anyone.. absolutely anyone into dungeon and have a full run with them.. it was so much fun during that time.. so so much fun, everyone basically from all background can enjoy it. i do CMs + t4 if not daily.. quite frequently and wing 1-4 under approx. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I apologize if i come out a bit hard but this comes out as amazingly selfish. If you enjoy playing with these other people then play T2 with them. The rewards should not be a factor if you are having fun playing with others. Additionally these less hardcore ppl can use your experience and learn with your help and eventually bring them to a level that they can do t4 with you if they want. Saying I want to be able to play with anyone but i do not, cause i do not get enough gold for it does not scream comradery to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just because dev said sth it doesn't mean people must agree with him :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If not for constant whining you would never ride a mount in GW2. Or raid :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Absolutely, you don't have to agree with the developers on THEIR vision of the game (which hopefully is backed by their data and metrics to player activity). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Arguing from that standpoint though is way different and definitely not an argument on equal footing with people who are not opposed to the current design and plan. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Something many seem to forget when posting their wishes and demands. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are just a player. You are irrelevant from my point of view :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since I do not like new direction of new fractals I'm going to remind devs about it, just like others should, so maybe at one point they'll reconsider their flawed perspective of new fractal developement approach :) > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, then why bother arguing at all in a forum where 99% of your interaction is with other players? But I get it, I'd sing the same tune if my desire and argumentation towards how I want the game to be got shot down this badly. > > > > > > > > > > > > You are correct though, keep reminding the developers of what you want. Make sure to tell people though that you are not looking for discussion but are just putting up your ideas which are absolute. Do expect to receive push back on a forum where every one is entitled to their opinions and don't get discouraged if your unrealistic expectation are never met. > > > > > > > > > > > > In the meantime the developers will do what any good developer will do: > > > > > > > > > > > > - they will stick to their vision > > > > > > - they will make sure their design and vision is backed by player numbers and metrics > > > > > > - they will ignore you until there is a drastic shift in player behavior which warrants change > > > > > > > > > > > > TL;DR: keep running against a wall with unrealistic expectations of breaking it down. Maybe there is a shift in seismic activity which makes the wall crumble. Stop bothering others whose house uses part of that wall. > > > > > > > > > > But Anet changed their vision many times. One of changes was introducing raiding in expense of easier, more popular instanced content. Question is, why are they now good developers? Because they did what you want and you are trying to manipulate the discussion to make unhappy customers look irrational while it was you, raiders, complaining about the game for full 3 years until you got what you wanted :) > > > > > > > > I don't think you quite understand why people wanting a challenge were complaining :) The thing is, Anet wanted some form of challenge out of the game. It was supposed to be in explorable modes of dungeons. Ant it was just a big fail imo because it was just too easy, for most of the encounters, to just stack in a corner and dps down a boss. > > > > > > > > You could argue then that players would go fractals. But back then it was just tedious to play, to gain some AR, and worst of all you needed to actually complete 3 fractals just to gain the final chest reward. Most of players would rather just replay the easy dungeons while making a huge profit off it, which is another huge flaw of dungeons imo: the lack of incentives to play the hardest dungeon paths back in the day because one easy dungeon path would reward you the same base amount of gold that one hard dungeon path. > > > > > > > > And frankly, even without going into dungeons or fractals, PvE experience became quite dull after some time. After doing plenty of world boss trains, Plinx and frostgorge failed events, silverwaste and dry tops, it felt more fun to play PvP or even WvW, except maybe for the occasional Tequatl and triple trouble. > > > > > > > > To me, Open world became really fun and relevant once HoT was introduced. > > > > > > > > So yeah they have every right to make fractals challenging when you reach T4. If you can't handle it, don't have AR, just go play the fractal you want at an easier tier. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And tryhard crowd got raids. There is no reason to pollute fractals with the same mentality and design and this is what people complain about here :) > > > > And difficulty complainers have open world, dungeons and easier tiers of fractals :) So what is the problem actually ? :) > > You question has been answered multiple times in this thread :) Sorry I don't find these answers to be satisfying and worth a problem to devs. What I feel like seeing in these answers are a vocal minority of players who have been copy pasting meta builds without even understanding how these builds work. And because they have been doing this for who knows how many years they actually suddenly find out that they don't know how to play the game anymore because they have never bothered to test things out, even in open world. Personally I call that the HoT syndrome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinceman.4572 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > Just because you agree with vocal minority it doesn't mean their/your opinions are more important than mine. We paid the same for the game :) The vocal minority is on your part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"flog.3485" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"flog.3485" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"flog.3485" said: > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Turin.6921" said: > > > > > > > > > > > I love how people are still discussing about fractals and if they are casual or not after the dev very clearly stated in this very thread the philosophy of each tier. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys t4 are supposed to be the hardest content for 5-man PvE. T1-3 are miles easier than fractals have ever been. If you do not understand that then you clearly never tried to level up with the old system before HoT. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are saying fractals now are too long. The old system made you to run 4 of them in one go or you did not get rewards. No matter how long a fractal gets it would never get as long the length of a single run back then. AR availability did not scale well with level and you had to farm the same level over and over again to increase you AR. Also nobody seems to remember the insane toughness scaling right after HoT for 50+ levels that made every fight insanely long and repetitive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fractals are more accessible than they have ever been in the game´s lifetime. If you want sth akin to dungeon difficulty stick with T2. These are supposed to represent the typical dungeon difficulty. Just because T4 is there it does not mean that you have to do it. They are only there for those that have fun with the challenge. And if you want the gold rewards they are 10 different alternatives to farm gold besides for T4 fractals in the open world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Talindra.4958" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > i feel that those players are missing out and many distant themselves from the challenging content not because they didn't want to play, they just couldn't .. its just too hard for them to catch up to the speed - maybe due to not able to play hardcore or perhaps other reasons.. I would love to be able to take anyone, anyone to t4 at least.. if not 100cm, but it is impossible with the way the game is set up, we don't mind 3 men t4 but people will not be able to enjoy the run with us without having proper gearing at least the required AR and theres soo much mechanics involve in all the recent updates... There is no reason for us to do low level fractal again on daily basis because it does not benefit us at all. The reason we are doing t4 is the daily reward and liquid gold and the reason I am doing 100cm is the infusion drop - ofc i never get them... > > > > > > > > > > > > Back in the good old days, we can take anyone.. absolutely anyone into dungeon and have a full run with them.. it was so much fun during that time.. so so much fun, everyone basically from all background can enjoy it. i do CMs + t4 if not daily.. quite frequently and wing 1-4 under approx. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I apologize if i come out a bit hard but this comes out as amazingly selfish. If you enjoy playing with these other people then play T2 with them. The rewards should not be a factor if you are having fun playing with others. Additionally these less hardcore ppl can use your experience and learn with your help and eventually bring them to a level that they can do t4 with you if they want. Saying I want to be able to play with anyone but i do not, cause i do not get enough gold for it does not scream comradery to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just because dev said sth it doesn't mean people must agree with him :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If not for constant whining you would never ride a mount in GW2. Or raid :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Absolutely, you don't have to agree with the developers on THEIR vision of the game (which hopefully is backed by their data and metrics to player activity). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Arguing from that standpoint though is way different and definitely not an argument on equal footing with people who are not opposed to the current design and plan. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Something many seem to forget when posting their wishes and demands. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are just a player. You are irrelevant from my point of view :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since I do not like new direction of new fractals I'm going to remind devs about it, just like others should, so maybe at one point they'll reconsider their flawed perspective of new fractal developement approach :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, then why bother arguing at all in a forum where 99% of your interaction is with other players? But I get it, I'd sing the same tune if my desire and argumentation towards how I want the game to be got shot down this badly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are correct though, keep reminding the developers of what you want. Make sure to tell people though that you are not looking for discussion but are just putting up your ideas which are absolute. Do expect to receive push back on a forum where every one is entitled to their opinions and don't get discouraged if your unrealistic expectation are never met. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the meantime the developers will do what any good developer will do: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - they will stick to their vision > > > > > > > - they will make sure their design and vision is backed by player numbers and metrics > > > > > > > - they will ignore you until there is a drastic shift in player behavior which warrants change > > > > > > > > > > > > > > TL;DR: keep running against a wall with unrealistic expectations of breaking it down. Maybe there is a shift in seismic activity which makes the wall crumble. Stop bothering others whose house uses part of that wall. > > > > > > > > > > > > But Anet changed their vision many times. One of changes was introducing raiding in expense of easier, more popular instanced content. Question is, why are they now good developers? Because they did what you want and you are trying to manipulate the discussion to make unhappy customers look irrational while it was you, raiders, complaining about the game for full 3 years until you got what you wanted :) > > > > > > > > > > I don't think you quite understand why people wanting a challenge were complaining :) The thing is, Anet wanted some form of challenge out of the game. It was supposed to be in explorable modes of dungeons. Ant it was just a big fail imo because it was just too easy, for most of the encounters, to just stack in a corner and dps down a boss. > > > > > > > > > > You could argue then that players would go fractals. But back then it was just tedious to play, to gain some AR, and worst of all you needed to actually complete 3 fractals just to gain the final chest reward. Most of players would rather just replay the easy dungeons while making a huge profit off it, which is another huge flaw of dungeons imo: the lack of incentives to play the hardest dungeon paths back in the day because one easy dungeon path would reward you the same base amount of gold that one hard dungeon path. > > > > > > > > > > And frankly, even without going into dungeons or fractals, PvE experience became quite dull after some time. After doing plenty of world boss trains, Plinx and frostgorge failed events, silverwaste and dry tops, it felt more fun to play PvP or even WvW, except maybe for the occasional Tequatl and triple trouble. > > > > > > > > > > To me, Open world became really fun and relevant once HoT was introduced. > > > > > > > > > > So yeah they have every right to make fractals challenging when you reach T4. If you can't handle it, don't have AR, just go play the fractal you want at an easier tier. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And tryhard crowd got raids. There is no reason to pollute fractals with the same mentality and design and this is what people complain about here :) > > > > > > And difficulty complainers have open world, dungeons and easier tiers of fractals :) So what is the problem actually ? :) > > > > You question has been answered multiple times in this thread :) > > Sorry I don't find these answers to be satisfying and worth a problem to devs. What I feel like seeing in these answers are a vocal minority of players who have been copy pasting meta builds without even understanding how these builds work. And because they have been doing this for who knows how many years they actually suddenly find out that they don't know how to play the game anymore because they have never bothered to test things out, even in open world. > > Personally I call that the HoT syndrome. You are only a palyer, so satisfying you is not my job. I have the same right to voice my disgust with new mechanics that are clearly inspired by raid content and I do not want fractals to become raids 2.0 :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flog.3485 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"flog.3485" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"flog.3485" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"flog.3485" said: > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Turin.6921" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > I love how people are still discussing about fractals and if they are casual or not after the dev very clearly stated in this very thread the philosophy of each tier. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys t4 are supposed to be the hardest content for 5-man PvE. T1-3 are miles easier than fractals have ever been. If you do not understand that then you clearly never tried to level up with the old system before HoT. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are saying fractals now are too long. The old system made you to run 4 of them in one go or you did not get rewards. No matter how long a fractal gets it would never get as long the length of a single run back then. AR availability did not scale well with level and you had to farm the same level over and over again to increase you AR. Also nobody seems to remember the insane toughness scaling right after HoT for 50+ levels that made every fight insanely long and repetitive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fractals are more accessible than they have ever been in the game´s lifetime. If you want sth akin to dungeon difficulty stick with T2. These are supposed to represent the typical dungeon difficulty. Just because T4 is there it does not mean that you have to do it. They are only there for those that have fun with the challenge. And if you want the gold rewards they are 10 different alternatives to farm gold besides for T4 fractals in the open world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Talindra.4958" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > i feel that those players are missing out and many distant themselves from the challenging content not because they didn't want to play, they just couldn't .. its just too hard for them to catch up to the speed - maybe due to not able to play hardcore or perhaps other reasons.. I would love to be able to take anyone, anyone to t4 at least.. if not 100cm, but it is impossible with the way the game is set up, we don't mind 3 men t4 but people will not be able to enjoy the run with us without having proper gearing at least the required AR and theres soo much mechanics involve in all the recent updates... There is no reason for us to do low level fractal again on daily basis because it does not benefit us at all. The reason we are doing t4 is the daily reward and liquid gold and the reason I am doing 100cm is the infusion drop - ofc i never get them... > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back in the good old days, we can take anyone.. absolutely anyone into dungeon and have a full run with them.. it was so much fun during that time.. so so much fun, everyone basically from all background can enjoy it. i do CMs + t4 if not daily.. quite frequently and wing 1-4 under approx. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I apologize if i come out a bit hard but this comes out as amazingly selfish. If you enjoy playing with these other people then play T2 with them. The rewards should not be a factor if you are having fun playing with others. Additionally these less hardcore ppl can use your experience and learn with your help and eventually bring them to a level that they can do t4 with you if they want. Saying I want to be able to play with anyone but i do not, cause i do not get enough gold for it does not scream comradery to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just because dev said sth it doesn't mean people must agree with him :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If not for constant whining you would never ride a mount in GW2. Or raid :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Absolutely, you don't have to agree with the developers on THEIR vision of the game (which hopefully is backed by their data and metrics to player activity). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Arguing from that standpoint though is way different and definitely not an argument on equal footing with people who are not opposed to the current design and plan. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Something many seem to forget when posting their wishes and demands. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are just a player. You are irrelevant from my point of view :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since I do not like new direction of new fractals I'm going to remind devs about it, just like others should, so maybe at one point they'll reconsider their flawed perspective of new fractal developement approach :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, then why bother arguing at all in a forum where 99% of your interaction is with other players? But I get it, I'd sing the same tune if my desire and argumentation towards how I want the game to be got shot down this badly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are correct though, keep reminding the developers of what you want. Make sure to tell people though that you are not looking for discussion but are just putting up your ideas which are absolute. Do expect to receive push back on a forum where every one is entitled to their opinions and don't get discouraged if your unrealistic expectation are never met. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the meantime the developers will do what any good developer will do: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - they will stick to their vision > > > > > > > > - they will make sure their design and vision is backed by player numbers and metrics > > > > > > > > - they will ignore you until there is a drastic shift in player behavior which warrants change > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > TL;DR: keep running against a wall with unrealistic expectations of breaking it down. Maybe there is a shift in seismic activity which makes the wall crumble. Stop bothering others whose house uses part of that wall. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But Anet changed their vision many times. One of changes was introducing raiding in expense of easier, more popular instanced content. Question is, why are they now good developers? Because they did what you want and you are trying to manipulate the discussion to make unhappy customers look irrational while it was you, raiders, complaining about the game for full 3 years until you got what you wanted :) > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think you quite understand why people wanting a challenge were complaining :) The thing is, Anet wanted some form of challenge out of the game. It was supposed to be in explorable modes of dungeons. Ant it was just a big fail imo because it was just too easy, for most of the encounters, to just stack in a corner and dps down a boss. > > > > > > > > > > > > You could argue then that players would go fractals. But back then it was just tedious to play, to gain some AR, and worst of all you needed to actually complete 3 fractals just to gain the final chest reward. Most of players would rather just replay the easy dungeons while making a huge profit off it, which is another huge flaw of dungeons imo: the lack of incentives to play the hardest dungeon paths back in the day because one easy dungeon path would reward you the same base amount of gold that one hard dungeon path. > > > > > > > > > > > > And frankly, even without going into dungeons or fractals, PvE experience became quite dull after some time. After doing plenty of world boss trains, Plinx and frostgorge failed events, silverwaste and dry tops, it felt more fun to play PvP or even WvW, except maybe for the occasional Tequatl and triple trouble. > > > > > > > > > > > > To me, Open world became really fun and relevant once HoT was introduced. > > > > > > > > > > > > So yeah they have every right to make fractals challenging when you reach T4. If you can't handle it, don't have AR, just go play the fractal you want at an easier tier. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And tryhard crowd got raids. There is no reason to pollute fractals with the same mentality and design and this is what people complain about here :) > > > > > > > > And difficulty complainers have open world, dungeons and easier tiers of fractals :) So what is the problem actually ? :) > > > > > > You question has been answered multiple times in this thread :) > > > > Sorry I don't find these answers to be satisfying and worth a problem to devs. What I feel like seeing in these answers are a vocal minority of players who have been copy pasting meta builds without even understanding how these builds work. And because they have been doing this for who knows how many years they actually suddenly find out that they don't know how to play the game anymore because they have never bothered to test things out, even in open world. > > > > Personally I call that the HoT syndrome. > > You are only a palyer, so satisfying you is not my job. I have the same right to voice my disgust with new mechanics that are clearly inspired by raid content and I do not want fractals to become raids 2.0 :) That is up to the devs to decide which side they want to cater more. I was only providing my feedback as long term player of GW2. I never asked you to satisfy me. However I am personally glad to see the design of mobs and content in general lean more towards my preferences. I hope you could still find a place to enjoy the game with your preferences :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"flog.3485" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"flog.3485" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"flog.3485" said: > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Turin.6921" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > I love how people are still discussing about fractals and if they are casual or not after the dev very clearly stated in this very thread the philosophy of each tier. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys t4 are supposed to be the hardest content for 5-man PvE. T1-3 are miles easier than fractals have ever been. If you do not understand that then you clearly never tried to level up with the old system before HoT. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are saying fractals now are too long. The old system made you to run 4 of them in one go or you did not get rewards. No matter how long a fractal gets it would never get as long the length of a single run back then. AR availability did not scale well with level and you had to farm the same level over and over again to increase you AR. Also nobody seems to remember the insane toughness scaling right after HoT for 50+ levels that made every fight insanely long and repetitive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fractals are more accessible than they have ever been in the game´s lifetime. If you want sth akin to dungeon difficulty stick with T2. These are supposed to represent the typical dungeon difficulty. Just because T4 is there it does not mean that you have to do it. They are only there for those that have fun with the challenge. And if you want the gold rewards they are 10 different alternatives to farm gold besides for T4 fractals in the open world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Talindra.4958" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > i feel that those players are missing out and many distant themselves from the challenging content not because they didn't want to play, they just couldn't .. its just too hard for them to catch up to the speed - maybe due to not able to play hardcore or perhaps other reasons.. I would love to be able to take anyone, anyone to t4 at least.. if not 100cm, but it is impossible with the way the game is set up, we don't mind 3 men t4 but people will not be able to enjoy the run with us without having proper gearing at least the required AR and theres soo much mechanics involve in all the recent updates... There is no reason for us to do low level fractal again on daily basis because it does not benefit us at all. The reason we are doing t4 is the daily reward and liquid gold and the reason I am doing 100cm is the infusion drop - ofc i never get them... > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back in the good old days, we can take anyone.. absolutely anyone into dungeon and have a full run with them.. it was so much fun during that time.. so so much fun, everyone basically from all background can enjoy it. i do CMs + t4 if not daily.. quite frequently and wing 1-4 under approx. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I apologize if i come out a bit hard but this comes out as amazingly selfish. If you enjoy playing with these other people then play T2 with them. The rewards should not be a factor if you are having fun playing with others. Additionally these less hardcore ppl can use your experience and learn with your help and eventually bring them to a level that they can do t4 with you if they want. Saying I want to be able to play with anyone but i do not, cause i do not get enough gold for it does not scream comradery to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just because dev said sth it doesn't mean people must agree with him :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If not for constant whining you would never ride a mount in GW2. Or raid :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Absolutely, you don't have to agree with the developers on THEIR vision of the game (which hopefully is backed by their data and metrics to player activity). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Arguing from that standpoint though is way different and definitely not an argument on equal footing with people who are not opposed to the current design and plan. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Something many seem to forget when posting their wishes and demands. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are just a player. You are irrelevant from my point of view :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since I do not like new direction of new fractals I'm going to remind devs about it, just like others should, so maybe at one point they'll reconsider their flawed perspective of new fractal developement approach :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, then why bother arguing at all in a forum where 99% of your interaction is with other players? But I get it, I'd sing the same tune if my desire and argumentation towards how I want the game to be got shot down this badly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are correct though, keep reminding the developers of what you want. Make sure to tell people though that you are not looking for discussion but are just putting up your ideas which are absolute. Do expect to receive push back on a forum where every one is entitled to their opinions and don't get discouraged if your unrealistic expectation are never met. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the meantime the developers will do what any good developer will do: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - they will stick to their vision > > > > > > > > - they will make sure their design and vision is backed by player numbers and metrics > > > > > > > > - they will ignore you until there is a drastic shift in player behavior which warrants change > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > TL;DR: keep running against a wall with unrealistic expectations of breaking it down. Maybe there is a shift in seismic activity which makes the wall crumble. Stop bothering others whose house uses part of that wall. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But Anet changed their vision many times. One of changes was introducing raiding in expense of easier, more popular instanced content. Question is, why are they now good developers? Because they did what you want and you are trying to manipulate the discussion to make unhappy customers look irrational while it was you, raiders, complaining about the game for full 3 years until you got what you wanted :) > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think you quite understand why people wanting a challenge were complaining :) The thing is, Anet wanted some form of challenge out of the game. It was supposed to be in explorable modes of dungeons. Ant it was just a big fail imo because it was just too easy, for most of the encounters, to just stack in a corner and dps down a boss. > > > > > > > > > > > > You could argue then that players would go fractals. But back then it was just tedious to play, to gain some AR, and worst of all you needed to actually complete 3 fractals just to gain the final chest reward. Most of players would rather just replay the easy dungeons while making a huge profit off it, which is another huge flaw of dungeons imo: the lack of incentives to play the hardest dungeon paths back in the day because one easy dungeon path would reward you the same base amount of gold that one hard dungeon path. > > > > > > > > > > > > And frankly, even without going into dungeons or fractals, PvE experience became quite dull after some time. After doing plenty of world boss trains, Plinx and frostgorge failed events, silverwaste and dry tops, it felt more fun to play PvP or even WvW, except maybe for the occasional Tequatl and triple trouble. > > > > > > > > > > > > To me, Open world became really fun and relevant once HoT was introduced. > > > > > > > > > > > > So yeah they have every right to make fractals challenging when you reach T4. If you can't handle it, don't have AR, just go play the fractal you want at an easier tier. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And tryhard crowd got raids. There is no reason to pollute fractals with the same mentality and design and this is what people complain about here :) > > > > > > > > And difficulty complainers have open world, dungeons and easier tiers of fractals :) So what is the problem actually ? :) > > > > > > You question has been answered multiple times in this thread :) > > > > Sorry I don't find these answers to be satisfying and worth a problem to devs. What I feel like seeing in these answers are a vocal minority of players who have been copy pasting meta builds without even understanding how these builds work. And because they have been doing this for who knows how many years they actually suddenly find out that they don't know how to play the game anymore because they have never bothered to test things out, even in open world. > > > > Personally I call that the HoT syndrome. > > You are only a palyer, so satisfying you is not my job. I have the same right to voice my disgust with new mechanics that are clearly inspired by raid content and I do not want fractals to become raids 2.0 :) Lets try this again what is this raids 2.0 you speak of can you describe it in 250 words please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Linken.6345" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"flog.3485" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"flog.3485" said: > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > @"flog.3485" said: > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Turin.6921" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I love how people are still discussing about fractals and if they are casual or not after the dev very clearly stated in this very thread the philosophy of each tier. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys t4 are supposed to be the hardest content for 5-man PvE. T1-3 are miles easier than fractals have ever been. If you do not understand that then you clearly never tried to level up with the old system before HoT. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are saying fractals now are too long. The old system made you to run 4 of them in one go or you did not get rewards. No matter how long a fractal gets it would never get as long the length of a single run back then. AR availability did not scale well with level and you had to farm the same level over and over again to increase you AR. Also nobody seems to remember the insane toughness scaling right after HoT for 50+ levels that made every fight insanely long and repetitive. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fractals are more accessible than they have ever been in the game´s lifetime. If you want sth akin to dungeon difficulty stick with T2. These are supposed to represent the typical dungeon difficulty. Just because T4 is there it does not mean that you have to do it. They are only there for those that have fun with the challenge. And if you want the gold rewards they are 10 different alternatives to farm gold besides for T4 fractals in the open world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Talindra.4958" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i feel that those players are missing out and many distant themselves from the challenging content not because they didn't want to play, they just couldn't .. its just too hard for them to catch up to the speed - maybe due to not able to play hardcore or perhaps other reasons.. I would love to be able to take anyone, anyone to t4 at least.. if not 100cm, but it is impossible with the way the game is set up, we don't mind 3 men t4 but people will not be able to enjoy the run with us without having proper gearing at least the required AR and theres soo much mechanics involve in all the recent updates... There is no reason for us to do low level fractal again on daily basis because it does not benefit us at all. The reason we are doing t4 is the daily reward and liquid gold and the reason I am doing 100cm is the infusion drop - ofc i never get them... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Back in the good old days, we can take anyone.. absolutely anyone into dungeon and have a full run with them.. it was so much fun during that time.. so so much fun, everyone basically from all background can enjoy it. i do CMs + t4 if not daily.. quite frequently and wing 1-4 under approx. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I apologize if i come out a bit hard but this comes out as amazingly selfish. If you enjoy playing with these other people then play T2 with them. The rewards should not be a factor if you are having fun playing with others. Additionally these less hardcore ppl can use your experience and learn with your help and eventually bring them to a level that they can do t4 with you if they want. Saying I want to be able to play with anyone but i do not, cause i do not get enough gold for it does not scream comradery to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just because dev said sth it doesn't mean people must agree with him :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If not for constant whining you would never ride a mount in GW2. Or raid :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Absolutely, you don't have to agree with the developers on THEIR vision of the game (which hopefully is backed by their data and metrics to player activity). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Arguing from that standpoint though is way different and definitely not an argument on equal footing with people who are not opposed to the current design and plan. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Something many seem to forget when posting their wishes and demands. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are just a player. You are irrelevant from my point of view :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since I do not like new direction of new fractals I'm going to remind devs about it, just like others should, so maybe at one point they'll reconsider their flawed perspective of new fractal developement approach :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, then why bother arguing at all in a forum where 99% of your interaction is with other players? But I get it, I'd sing the same tune if my desire and argumentation towards how I want the game to be got shot down this badly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are correct though, keep reminding the developers of what you want. Make sure to tell people though that you are not looking for discussion but are just putting up your ideas which are absolute. Do expect to receive push back on a forum where every one is entitled to their opinions and don't get discouraged if your unrealistic expectation are never met. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the meantime the developers will do what any good developer will do: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - they will stick to their vision > > > > > > > > > - they will make sure their design and vision is backed by player numbers and metrics > > > > > > > > > - they will ignore you until there is a drastic shift in player behavior which warrants change > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > TL;DR: keep running against a wall with unrealistic expectations of breaking it down. Maybe there is a shift in seismic activity which makes the wall crumble. Stop bothering others whose house uses part of that wall. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But Anet changed their vision many times. One of changes was introducing raiding in expense of easier, more popular instanced content. Question is, why are they now good developers? Because they did what you want and you are trying to manipulate the discussion to make unhappy customers look irrational while it was you, raiders, complaining about the game for full 3 years until you got what you wanted :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think you quite understand why people wanting a challenge were complaining :) The thing is, Anet wanted some form of challenge out of the game. It was supposed to be in explorable modes of dungeons. Ant it was just a big fail imo because it was just too easy, for most of the encounters, to just stack in a corner and dps down a boss. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You could argue then that players would go fractals. But back then it was just tedious to play, to gain some AR, and worst of all you needed to actually complete 3 fractals just to gain the final chest reward. Most of players would rather just replay the easy dungeons while making a huge profit off it, which is another huge flaw of dungeons imo: the lack of incentives to play the hardest dungeon paths back in the day because one easy dungeon path would reward you the same base amount of gold that one hard dungeon path. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And frankly, even without going into dungeons or fractals, PvE experience became quite dull after some time. After doing plenty of world boss trains, Plinx and frostgorge failed events, silverwaste and dry tops, it felt more fun to play PvP or even WvW, except maybe for the occasional Tequatl and triple trouble. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To me, Open world became really fun and relevant once HoT was introduced. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So yeah they have every right to make fractals challenging when you reach T4. If you can't handle it, don't have AR, just go play the fractal you want at an easier tier. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And tryhard crowd got raids. There is no reason to pollute fractals with the same mentality and design and this is what people complain about here :) > > > > > > > > > > And difficulty complainers have open world, dungeons and easier tiers of fractals :) So what is the problem actually ? :) > > > > > > > > You question has been answered multiple times in this thread :) > > > > > > Sorry I don't find these answers to be satisfying and worth a problem to devs. What I feel like seeing in these answers are a vocal minority of players who have been copy pasting meta builds without even understanding how these builds work. And because they have been doing this for who knows how many years they actually suddenly find out that they don't know how to play the game anymore because they have never bothered to test things out, even in open world. > > > > > > Personally I call that the HoT syndrome. > > > > You are only a palyer, so satisfying you is not my job. I have the same right to voice my disgust with new mechanics that are clearly inspired by raid content and I do not want fractals to become raids 2.0 :) > > Lets try this again what is this raids 2.0 you speak of can you describe it in 250 words please. It's already been explained why players are unhappy with new fractals in this thread :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > Since I do not like new direction of new fractals I'm going to remind devs about it, just like others should, so maybe at one point they'll reconsider their flawed perspective of new fractal developement approach :) I'm on your side, but, there have been thousands of posts on this, here, the old forums, and all other areas of social media. If you become the one voice they listen to, kudos. but, this has been ongoing for years and Anet has stuck the course in the direction you don't like. But.. if it makes you feel any better.. I wish you good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourningcry.9428 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > It's already been explained why players are unhappy with new fractals in this thread :) It's already been explained why players are not unhappy with new fractals in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Mourningcry.9428" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > It's already been explained why players are unhappy with new fractals in this thread :) > > It's already been explained why players are not unhappy with new fractals in this thread. These are different players :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourningcry.9428 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Mourningcry.9428" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > It's already been explained why players are unhappy with new fractals in this thread :) > > > > It's already been explained why players are not unhappy with new fractals in this thread. > > These are different players :) These are different players who paid the same amount for the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Mourningcry.9428" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Mourningcry.9428" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > It's already been explained why players are unhappy with new fractals in this thread :) > > > > > > It's already been explained why players are not unhappy with new fractals in this thread. > > > > These are different players :) > > These are different players who paid the same amount for the game. Exactly. Meaning as much as you like new fractals, I paid same amount of money to voice my disgust about the situation :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddoctor.2738 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"maddoctor.2738" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > Since I do not like new direction of new fractals I'm going to remind devs about it, just like others should, so maybe at one point they'll reconsider their flawed perspective of new fractal developement approach :) > > > > > > > > I'm on your side, but, there have been thousands of posts on this, here, the old forums, and all other areas of social media. If you become the one voice they listen to, kudos. but, this has been ongoing for years and Anet has stuck the course in the direction you don't like. > > > > > > > > But.. if it makes you feel any better.. I wish you good luck. > > > > > > > > > > It took tryhards 3 years of whining to get raids. I'm patient. Once people get bored with hard content being less and less profitable (aka longer for same rewards) they will stop playing fractals and anet will react :) > > > > Sometime you will understand the difference between whining and legitimate concern. > > Legitimate concern - the one maddoctor.2738 agrees with or sees as such > > Whining - not the one above > > :) You should go and read the "how to give constructive feedback thread Here is a link: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/317/how-to-give-good-feedback Posts that follow that are constructive, those who do not, like this one, are not. Plus advice on how to "solve" the OP's concerns have appeared multiple times in the thread, plus even a developer post explaining their reasoning behind the changes. Ignoring the advice, ignoring the developer post, not posting anything constructive. That's pure whining at this point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANY.6524 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 In part, I understand where you are coming from. My husband, an avid gamer, would never be able to pull his own weight in one of my fractal groups. He used to be a champion CoD player, but since then he has suffered traumatic brain injury (TBI) and no longer has the reflexes appropriate for more difficult game modes like higher level T4s. To him, this content is really, really hard and especially frustrating. For me, this is what I consider end-game casual content. I run T4s on the regular. (EDIT: on the regular **for me** - which can be whenever I have the time from school.) Once you fully understand the mechanics and can spot attacks as they're about to happen (which is important in any game, really), you'll have a much easier time with T4s (unless, like my husband, you have some kind of physical disability). I'm not trying to sound patronizing, and I'm sorry if I come off this way. I just don't personally believe that fractals are becoming the raid 2.0 that so many people seem to believe. There is a difficulty level that everyone eventually runs into that they cannot surpass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > Since I do not like new direction of new fractals I'm going to remind devs about it, just like others should, so maybe at one point they'll reconsider their flawed perspective of new fractal developement approach :) > > > > > > > > I'm on your side, but, there have been thousands of posts on this, here, the old forums, and all other areas of social media. If you become the one voice they listen to, kudos. but, this has been ongoing for years and Anet has stuck the course in the direction you don't like. > > > > > > > > But.. if it makes you feel any better.. I wish you good luck. > > > > > > > > > > It took tryhards 3 years of whining to get raids. I'm patient. Once people get bored with hard content being less and less profitable (aka longer for same rewards) they will stop playing fractals and anet will react :) > > > > I'm more inclined to believe that with at least two "mold breaking" MMO's due out in 2018, Anet will take a massive hit in sales, and flounder around trying to please whoever they can keep playing this game. Might even be you and yours. > > > > I'm not as hopeful. > > > > and I am following the other MMO's.. ;) > > Well, GW2 is old and it's pretty obvious at this point anet is working on new game. I am pretty sure even if GW2 playerbase declines in next 2-3 years anet will not care as we already funded their new project. It's only 5 years old, its still pretty new, by MMO standards, considering NCSoft's other games like Aion was released in 2008, (4 years before GW2) and still has similar earnings. Linage(1998) and Linage II (2003) are still rocking in sales. So.. saying "its older" is an excuse.. and an unfounded one at that.. also consider that WoW was still in a massive upward growth even after 6 years pat launch. So was EQ, and EvE online was still growing 10 years after launch. Sure some MMOs taper off quickly, but often it was due to either bad management, or it was a poor game from the start.. which category would you put GW2 into? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiyo.3578 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > Absolutely, you don't have to agree with the developers on THEIR vision of the game (which hopefully is backed by their data and metrics to player activity). > > Arguing from that standpoint though is way different and definitely not an argument on equal footing with people who are not opposed to the current design and plan. > > Something many seem to forget when posting their wishes and demands. You know if the playerbase didn't disagree with the devs "vision" we'd still have living story season 1 temporary content and robert as dungeon/boss lead developer making more awful bosses like karka queen, right? The devs "vision" isn't always correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Shiyo.3578" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > Absolutely, you don't have to agree with the developers on THEIR vision of the game (which hopefully is backed by their data and metrics to player activity). > > > > Arguing from that standpoint though is way different and definitely not an argument on equal footing with people who are not opposed to the current design and plan. > > > > Something many seem to forget when posting their wishes and demands. > > i agree, bring back living story season 1 temporary content and bring back robert as dungeon/boss lead developer so we can get more fantastic bosses like karka queen > > Never disagree with the devs vision!! That's not what I said and you know it. Miss representing my argument does not make yours stronger, especially when you even quoted what I said. The exact words I used were:"If you disagree with the current vision of the game, you need to provide more than just an opinion. You need to fight an uphill battle because as a regular player you lack basically all important information regarding the game (player activity, numbers, etc.). You need to provide proper feedback (there is a thread about how to do that) and convincingly defend your point against other opinions. As well as hopefully have numbers which back your point." The bickering which is going on currently does none of that. It's even shameful that even after a developer stepped in explaining how content gets currently designed, some people still stick to bickering and complaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooloo.1364 Posted December 10, 2017 Author Share Posted December 10, 2017 Thanks for the feedback guys, I didn't mean this to get so heated. Seems this is the direction Anet has chosen to go, eventually bringing all Fractals up to these new mechanics making them too much work for my small group of casuals. Time for me to search for new lands and greener pastures, have fun all and be nice to each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Sooloo.1364" said: > Thanks for the feedback guys, I didn't mean this to get so heated. > Seems this is the direction Anet has chosen to go, eventually bringing all Fractals up to these new mechanics making them too much work for my small group of casuals. > Time for me to search for new lands and greener pastures, have fun all and be nice to each other. Game is old, I think at the end of the day moving your time, passion and money to a title that is better suited for your needs is the best decision. The more players do this, the faster we make anet regret their flawed design decisions :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genesis.5169 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 When you guys says fractals aren't designed for everyone do you mean all of fractals or are you aiming at t4s? Because it seems like you guys are aiming at t4s and that the end game of Fractals of the Mist, i do not think the end game of any instance content should be super easy, T4's are already very PUGable CMs are as well with the exception of 100cm, 99cm is easily puged. If you cannot do t4s do t3's the chests say fractal masters chest not fractals average chest. Please understand this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiyo.3578 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 I already skip 100, now I have to skip oasis too. How long until I'll have to skip every single daily and no longer able to do T4's? Fractals shouldn't require a static - they should be puggable content. T4's are beginning to get unpuggable. This games player base is not good enough for daily routine content to be as difficult as 100 and oasis. It's also not ok that fractals that are more difficult give the same reward as MUCH easier ones. Again, I have no problem doing these. The problem is the player base is not competent enough as a whole to tackle these things on a regular basis, and it's not fun trying to do hard content with players who cannot do it reliably and it takes an hour or longer to clear a single fractal. You've created a very, very, very casual player base that can barely autoattack and press 2 at the same time, you don't just change the rules 4 years later and go "guess what guys now the games going to be hard!". You don't have the player base to back up that difficulty. You will quickly find out that your decision to make a casual game "hard" is going to bite you in the butt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinceman.4572 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 > @"Shiyo.3578" said: > I already skip 100, now I have to skip oasis too. > > How long until I'll have to skip every single daily and no longer able to do T4's? Fractals shouldn't require a static - they should be puggable content. T4's are beginning to get unpuggable. This games player base is not good enough for daily routine content to be as difficult as 100 and oasis. > > It's also not ok that fractals that are more difficult give the same reward as MUCH easier ones. > > Again, I have no problem doing these. The problem is the player base is not competent enough as a whole to tackle these things on a regular basis, and it's not fun trying to do hard content with players who cannot do it reliably and it takes an hour or longer to clear a single fractal. > > You've created a very, very, very casual player base that can barely autoattack and press 2 at the same time, you don't just change the rules 4 years later and go "guess what guys now the games going to be hard!". You don't have the player base to back up that difficulty. You will quickly find out that your decision to make a casual game "hard" is going to bite you in the butt. May I ask which pug lfgs you are joining or setting up? I pug 100 CM (with KP) and sometimes 100 non-CM. You should watch out for groups using "p + f" which means pots and food. Both (you don't need top tier food!) are very cheap and essential for having an easier time in fractals even if you (or others) think they can be neglected. The bonus is huge if 5 players with compared to a group without! I haven't had big issues with 100 non-CM groups, maybe some wipes here and there but in the end the encounter is very forgiving and after a few run you will recognize the pattern of each boss - they are always the same - on all 3. Soon, the usual 100 will become a snooze fest for you. Oasis has been T4 for 2 days since launch, obviously players are not used to it. Give it some time and tries and Amala's pattern will be adapted as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rennie.6750 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > @"Shiyo.3578" said: > > I already skip 100, now I have to skip oasis too. > > > > How long until I'll have to skip every single daily and no longer able to do T4's? Fractals shouldn't require a static - they should be puggable content. T4's are beginning to get unpuggable. This games player base is not good enough for daily routine content to be as difficult as 100 and oasis. > > > > It's also not ok that fractals that are more difficult give the same reward as MUCH easier ones. > > > > Again, I have no problem doing these. The problem is the player base is not competent enough as a whole to tackle these things on a regular basis, and it's not fun trying to do hard content with players who cannot do it reliably and it takes an hour or longer to clear a single fractal. > > > > You've created a very, very, very casual player base that can barely autoattack and press 2 at the same time, you don't just change the rules 4 years later and go "guess what guys now the games going to be hard!". You don't have the player base to back up that difficulty. You will quickly find out that your decision to make a casual game "hard" is going to bite you in the butt. > > May I ask which pug lfgs you are joining or setting up? I pug 100 CM (with KP) and sometimes 100 non-CM. You should watch out for groups using "p + f" which means pots and food. Both (you don't need top tier food!) are very cheap and essential for having an easier time in fractals even if you (or others) think they can be neglected. The bonus is huge if 5 players with compared to a group without! > > I haven't had big issues with 100 non-CM groups, maybe some wipes here and there but in the end the encounter is very forgiving and after a few run you will recognize the pattern of each boss - they are always the same - on all 3. Soon, the usual 100 will become a snooze fest for you. > Oasis has been T4 for 2 days since launch, obviously players are not used to it. Give it some time and tries and Amala's pattern will be adapted as well. Food, pots, exp, super pro, reveal body parts on entrance, whatever, nothing makes a difference. You always get people who can't deal with the insane pacing of oasis or observatory. Of course it's hard. Potions don't help when the game just throws too much stuff at people at once. Such content is also very taxing and tiring and after the first wipe it becomes much worse. Of course it doesn't help that both have solid ocean rewards level, there's no real motivation to succeed. It was fractal 100 day today and I had the "full experience". Party wiped at 10% on the first boss (couldn't finish it, died at 3% myself), people dying to adds on vishara, and the "ANet complete arkk experience pack": kicking me with the bomb outside of the safe area with an explosive lighting ball, people falling off platforms, people stepping in the purple goo, bombs ignored (because of course it's still bugged as fuck and the icon rarely appears for you if you have it), and it was an "exp p&f meta" party lol. I thought it couldn't be that bad. Wrong. I'll go back to skipping it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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