PvP Discussion: Maps

[Leves.9035]

> @"Mireles Lore.5942" said:

> **Battle of Champion's Dusk:**

> I know its one heck of a painstaking undertaking, but this map would largely benefit from a larger team format. The map feels to big and the combat roles to many for just 5 people. You have supply, treb, hero captures, offence, and defense. It is simply to much to do for 5 people and you can easily get rolled by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. It could easily be the GvG format so many players are looking for if revamped correctly.

 

I agree with the fact that there are way too many objectives for five person per team on the map. Increasing the number of players would only help If zerging would be punishable otherwise we would change nothing.

 

I feel like trebs are in a odd position right now on Champion's Dusk. Also I miss the flag mechanics from gw1. My idea is to give a "Flag" to mid which you need in order to control the trebuchet.

[breno.5423]

Rework courtyard to rounds system, best of 3 or 5.

[Alatar.7364]

There are too many comments for me to effectively tell if this question was already asked, so I will have to go ahead and ask myself, sorry if it was answered already.

Are there any plans to release more Stronghold map/s?

 

Also, Legacy of the Foefire is too much of a snowball map. I think we all know that. So, are there any Plans to make a bit of a Change to this Map?

For example: Some obstructions between Mid and Sides, or complete change to the Paths between Nodes?

 

[huehuehueh.5106]

Can we have an option to not display the instructions/tutorial/map mechanic window every game?

[Cynz.9437]

Can lord please stop attacking when in downed state + stealthed? Makes stealth pointless vs stomps and lord is already too easy to kill.

[Ben Phongluangtham.1065]

> @Alatar.7364 said:

> There are too many comments for me to effectively tell if this question was already asked, so I will have to go ahead and ask myself, sorry if it was answered already.

> Are there any plans to release more Stronghold map/s?

 

A new Stronghold map isn't currently on our backlog. We plan on eventually revising our current stronghold map, though this is a ways out. Once that is done and we get some time on the revisions, a 2nd stronghold map isn't off the table someday.

 

> Also, Legacy of the Foefire is too much of a snowball map. I think we all know that. So, are there any Plans to make a bit of a Change to this Map?

> For example: Some obstructions between Mid and Sides, or complete change to the Paths between Nodes?

>

We've talked about this a few times. We've had some brainstorm sessions on possible changes and have posted our thoughts here. It's a bit divisive, especially considered the popularity of the map.

 

[Ben Phongluangtham.1065]

> @huehuehueh.5106 said:

> Can we have an option to not display the instructions/tutorial/map mechanic window every game?

 

Maybe. I'll add it to the list of possible QoL changes.

[LUST.7241]

Status on...

* The spawn for some maps starts you way far from the gate (ex. Battle of Kyhlo), are these changing?

* There was talk about moving the spawns for Legacy of the Foefire so it takes less time to get to the central point? As well as resizing the central point?

 

**Map rotation**

Adding **Spirit Watch** to the Ranked rotation?

 

**Map mechanics**

Don't make the Trebuchet on Battle of Kyhlo player-controlled. Instead let players take the repair kit to the Trebuchet and for 120s (or something) it bombards a point (it switches points every kit). It's way too costly to have someone use the Trebuchet during a match.

 

 

**Battle of Champion’s Dusk**

 

* I think having the Lord push with the lane and get stronger with a team's kills would make it more engaging. Both will share a lane and pretty much contribute to very little at the start. Whichever Lord reaches the opposing Gate and destroys the core, wins. Things to note:

1. Lord's themselves take no damage from players

2. Lord's give offensive buffs on kill streaks and defensive buffs if dying too much.

3. Only the lord can hurt the gate and core

4. Lord only gets stronger with kills and gets weaker with deaths (making it possible to comeback).

5. The look of the Lord ties in with his/her strength

6. Team can choose a Lord at the start (effects what boons they can provide)

[Kapax.3801]

**Eternal Coliseum**

This map is very big for 10 people, I think it should be reduced by 30% or 40. What's more, I'd even say it's a map of 8 vs 8.

 

**Revenge of the Capricorn**

This map is very long, they should also reduce it by 20% or 30%.

 

The maps mentioned above have a great advantage for the Range and a great disadvantage for the Melee. Especially the professions that can shorten great distances with their abilities.

[Darek.1836]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > @Alatar.7364 said:

> > There are too many comments for me to effectively tell if this question was already asked, so I will have to go ahead and ask myself, sorry if it was answered already.

> > Are there any plans to release more Stronghold map/s?

>

> A new Stronghold map isn't currently on our backlog. We plan on eventually revising our current stronghold map, though this is a ways out. Once that is done and we get some time on the revisions, a 2nd stronghold map isn't off the table someday.

>

> > Also, Legacy of the Foefire is too much of a snowball map. I think we all know that. So, are there any Plans to make a bit of a Change to this Map?

> > For example: Some obstructions between Mid and Sides, or complete change to the Paths between Nodes?

> >

> We've talked about this a few times. We've had some brainstorm sessions on possible changes and have posted our thoughts here. It's a bit divisive, especially considered the popularity of the map.

>

 

Move spawns closer to home like I mentioned earlier. Doesn't mess with the mid node.

 

Also I feel like on Temple only tranquillity should come up at 8:30/2:30 instead of both stillness and it. The reason is the map is super unbalanced towards some comps when you're literally forced into playing in 4 locations and sometimes 5, which is completely unique to Temple.

[Ledavi.1803]

I get that Capricorn is the largest of the maps and some melee'ers and others with lower mobility might not appreciate the distances, but to follow Darek's paradigm it has:

1. Uniqueness

2. Decent Node layout - a good node layout is the foundation to a good map, and they should mostly be unique to other maps

3. Good LOS with elevations, jumping areas and barriers that are well placed imo

4. Side objective balance - unique and ascending point structure makes for differing paths to victory and emphasis on situational awareness

 

So, I would vote not to make it smaller (although spawn could be moved closer to home points).

Just my .02

[Ashyri.5426]

This might be a bit off topic, but please change the ranked map rotation during the season. It's been the same maps for at least the past 3 seasons, as far as I can recall.

[Keyba.9570]

For Skyhammer...I think the platforms in front of the maps should be removed . The middle is fine and ones around the map as well but those ones close to the node really screw over melee classes compared to ranged.

[LucusAurelius.9820]

Stronghold suggestions (not nessicarily related to eachother but if something inspires you then take it and innovate.)

 

Make it 10 v 10

 

One person on the team is promoted to Guild Lord, increased HP, stats, weapons skills such as how Sohothin was used in PoF. Killing / Protecting an actively fighting and moving Guild lord would provide players a unique experience and always guarantees that teams won’t ignore eachother.

 

Change theme to Sunspears vs Awakened and let the NPC’s auto spawn in waves, 2 melee, 1 support and 2 ranged. Add Joko as a mist champion. Then praise him.

 

Mist champs are now called with special action key after X NPC kills.

 

Redesign map to resemble Twilight Oasis design and bring verticality, movement skills, and fighting

on rooftops into PvP.

 

**New PvP deathmatch**

10 v 10

No Respawn

Best of 3, 1 min between sets to swap skills/characters. These would be quick, fun and deadly. Use the coliseum map. Add environmental weapons thrown in by crowd.

[Spurnshadow.3678]

It's good to hear you have some new maps in the works. These can't be brought out soon enough.

 

With the amount of work that goes into PvE maps, and the frequency and size that they are, I don't see why you guys can't do a new one for each season. They are a fraction of the size of even a LS map. Also, you've gotta get more different modes. 5 years of conquest is so stale. Also, increase the middle circle on each map.

[Ben K.6238]

Stronghold might work a little better if the lanes crossed over, or if all lanes were both offensive and defensive like a standard MOBA.

[Miles Smiles.8951]

any plans on reworking/removing jumping pads from Skyhammer?

[Exedore.6320]

**Spirit Watch**

The orb mechanic just doesn't work to alter the flow of the game. In a relatively close match, the team that doesn't have the map is usually staggered, which means its too easy for them to outnumber the orb before it gets to a cap point. Further, it's too easy to lose the orb to a thief or similar 1v1 build and then also lose a node; better off leaving it.

Idea: Remove bonus points for returning orb to a node you control. Orb no longer has special abilities or movement restrictions. This slows the snowball and allows for the team coming out of spawn (usually the one who is just recently behind) to grab it and make a quick de-cap to lessen their setback from dying. Consider increasing channel or having a short, initial "can't use abilities + slow movement" phase for opponents to react.

 

**Khylo**

I liked the old clocktower; it was far more interesting aesthetically. Could we bring some of it back (at least the upper portion and maybe just have it go to its old destroyed state at the start of the match? The new layout also makes using the treb on it far more difficult.

The call-out on the trebuchet is still dodgy. I'm not sure, but I think the "no alert" happens when you're not standing in the blast radius when it fires, but then enter the radius.

 

**Skyhammer**

The jump pads which flank the point B on the upper level can get in the way during fights.

[Cynz.9437]

Example of no valid path which leads to death in many cases:


 

Can we have maps looked at from this perspective please?

This also includes coal cart at mine that is heavily abused by any half decent player: as long as you stand on it, you can't use ports nor someone can port to you so someone can push you into cart and you can't use stunbreak -> you die. There are quite few spots like this across maps and they are just being abused by anyone who knows them. I don't think classes that don't rely on ports really need that much more advantage.

[Dreggon.6598]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > @ArthurDent.9538 said:

> > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > > > @Crinn.7864 said:

> > > > Can we do something about foefire. It's inline layout is really bad to play on, particularly for low mobility class, it's points are far to easy to bunker, and the mechanic ridiculously favors teams with mesmers.

> > > We've talked about potential changes to Foefire before, but people got a little mad about. Reducing the size of mid to specially reduce bunkering was on our list of potential changes.

> > > We do have to be careful with changes to it, as in it's current state, it's one of the most popular maps. Even if I think it could be improved.

> >

> > The problem with foefire isn't the large points, it is the fact that mid is directly between the two sides which makes it really hard to play sides since to go from far to home you need to go through mid or take a huge detour.

>

> Adjusting that was also on our list of potential changes. We felt that not having home close to spawn contributes to the snowball potential.

 

put a jump pad to get over mid point faster, there's some unused parts of the map if you leave a side point and head to the left and you can cross a bridge, maybe put something on the other side of that bridge

[Phoebe Ascension.8437]

While i didnt like the khylo change at all, the entrance point of the tower, i can live with now (i still like the old jumping puzzle requiring map more).

 

But the trebuchet is super bad now. Also the clocktower is ugly (the old clocktower was thousant times more fun). I rather have a mechanic in the old clocktower top. It's also the part of clocktower that isnt broken prevents treb shots, you can only land treb shots in about 40% of tower, rest is safe zone (and people by now now that), it's really bad, nobody use treb anymore.

[Ithilwen.1529]

From my PoV the problem with Stronghold, ( and other PvP maps, ) is that the players are simply too powerful. There's no point whatever in attempting to defend a gate as a solo or pair. You're gonna get slaughtered.

 

Also, if you successfully defend, your fortress has taken damage and your enemy's has not. Defending is a losing proposition for a team group. So, the best policy is to race to kill the ai. **Really effective siege machinery , eg arrow carts, might alter that. Such gear could give a defender a chance against the enemy rush.**

 

This would tend to throw the teams into conflict mid map, which seems to kind of be ANET's goal.

 

 

For me, Coliseum really captures the essence of what PvP is about, viz Gladiatorial contests in public. I'd like to see a lot more of that theme. **Perhaps the Charr Arena outside the Village of Butcher's Block? This would make a great 1v1 or 2v2 map** You already have the art and the premise from one of the Norn personal story episodes. This is a place where various races fight for pay as entertainment. Pit fighting at Lion's Arch is also mentioned in the game.

 

 

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @Dreggon.6598 said:

> > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > > @ArthurDent.9538 said:

> > > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > > > > @Crinn.7864 said:

> > > > > Can we do something about foefire. It's inline layout is really bad to play on, particularly for low mobility class, it's points are far to easy to bunker, and the mechanic ridiculously favors teams with mesmers.

> > > > We've talked about potential changes to Foefire before, but people got a little mad about. Reducing the size of mid to specially reduce bunkering was on our list of potential changes.

> > > > We do have to be careful with changes to it, as in it's current state, it's one of the most popular maps. Even if I think it could be improved.

> > >

> > > The problem with foefire isn't the large points, it is the fact that mid is directly between the two sides which makes it really hard to play sides since to go from far to home you need to go through mid or take a huge detour.

> >

> > Adjusting that was also on our list of potential changes. We felt that not having home close to spawn contributes to the snowball potential.

>

> put a jump pad to get over mid point faster, there's some unused parts of the map if you leave a side point and head to the left and you can cross a bridge, maybe put something on the other side of that bridge

 

I would put another bridge there and then on the other side I would put another archway. That way you can get across without having to directly go through mid.

[Ithilwen.1529]

> @bluri.2653 said:

> I think you should add more maps, add Spirit Watch to ranked IMO as it used to be a part of it. No matter if they feel weird or some don't like it. It really gets tedious to play the same maps over and over so implement more and add Spirit Watch to ranked pool IMO.

 

I would absolutely hate to see Spirit Watch in the Ranked rotation. This map is basically intended to be a jr tdm. AOE builds and anything cheesy thrives in Spirit Watch. You have both spawns directed into a high walled ravine. Combine that with the orbs and you have a map designed to encourage tdm. I don't like to play it at all.. but please , it's not a map for conquest competition.

[Ithilwen.1529]

General comments:

 

Coliseum: My favorite map. The crowd mechanic and the general environment make it amazing. Please don't cut back on ports/blinks too much more. There's not enough edge to mobility and there's very little shelter around mid.

 

Khylo: A map I used to like a lot. Major changes that directly nerfed Mesmer and thief, ouch. Now it's ruled by Scourges. I admit, I feel a little attacked. Please don't kill any more hide/mobility spots.

 

Spirit Watch: Yuck. This map reminds me of Courtyard and I dislike playing it.

 

Capricorn ( new ) Nice map. The only real problem here is that the bell circle is too small. There is no way I can kick an FB or Scourge off the point. So the map heavily favors these classes.

 

Capricorn ( old ) My first PvP map. I feel a lot of nostalgia for this old map and would love to see it return.

 

Forest: Nice map, please don't fix what isn't broken :)

 

Temple: A neat map except that it can be absolutely ruled by aoe classes. Maybe large capture points instead of meditation interactions?

 

Skyhammer: I love this map. All the new safety bumpers felt lame at first, but they have improved things. The hammer is still too easily dominated by Scourge/FB.

 

Foefire: A good map. I love the large mid circle. All mid circles should be like that. The only issue I have with this map is that I see it so often. ~edit~ Oh and the constant line of sight issues with blink etc.. but that can be said of the game generally. It's especially galling that Mesmer mainhand Sword won't change Z anymore.