Path of Fire Material Storage

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Emissary Vex.5690" said:

> Just so you know, despite what you are doing I fully intend to still horde all crafting materials in my bank until I know what they are all for and have no intention of selling anything on the trading post until well after launch of the expansion. This change will simply make the game more difficult and tedious for me to accomplish the same thing and I will resent you for it.

 

This.

 

I hold on to mats initially because I do not know what they are used for or in what quantities. Other people may very well want to hold onto the new mats initially becahse they need large quantities for whatever use.

 

During the launch era for this game I countered forum complaints about limited starting bag space compared to some other games by pointing out the remote deposit of crafting mats. Reducing the benefit of this feature supports the argument of the complaints that ANet purposefully inconveniences paying customers in order to milk more revenue from bag or bank slot sales.

 

I know that the company's decision to knowingly, purposefully, seek to inconvenience me in game, for the sake of that inconvenience, affects my perception of the company, the game, the individual employees making the decision (or defending it), and the gemstore.

[Stalkingwolf.6035]

> @Timo.1065 said:

> On Reddit there is big discussion with Anet emproyee about economy and bad situation with prices. Their explanation about their storage move is to reduce price for mats.

> They forgott that there is another easy way to reduse price of mats. Just make it more acceable for players to gather it.

 

or reduce them. 18.000 Wood/Ore/ is just insane.

[Rennie.6750]

I think that Anet's different design departments would really benefit from having meetings to discuss core issues more often, because obviously you don't understand why people deposit first then sort things out. We do that not because we don't care, but because crafting is designed to be an adventure in itself. It's _complicated_, it involves a ton of tiers/steps, and we're not always in mood to look up things on the wiki for hours until we figure it out. Recipes are hidden and material uses are never clear because all the tooltip for your shard of bullsh#t says is "you can refine it into bullsh#tium", cool, then what? What am I supposed to do with it? So instead we just deposit the thing because uses aren't really clear and decide that we'll figure this out later. This isn't laziness, this is the exact result of a "crafting as a complex adventure" design. You guys need to remember that you have the absolute most complicated and convoluted crafting system on the market.

[otto.5684]

> @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> With the arrival of Path of Fire, many new materials and components will be added to Material Storage. But for a handful of items, we've specifically decided not to start with them in Material Storage, and instead to add them to the storage system later. Why? Well, at the launch of Heart of Thorns, we noticed a peculiar behavior: most players will deposit first when clearing their inventory, and then proceed to take actions like salvaging, opening chests, or, crucially, putting items on the Trading Post. This tended to mean that before a player will post an item on the Trading Post, they'll wait to accrue a full stack in their Material Storage. During the early period of Heart of Thorns, this significantly contributed to the early expense of flax, which was abundantly available but, for the most part, was "warehoused" in the banks of players.

>

> In an experiment to see if we can combat the early steep price of a handful of materials, we will launch Path of Fire without those items being depositable. Once we are comfortable with the supply and price—which we believe should become apparent in weeks, not months—we will add them to material storage.

>

> We know how important inventory space is to players, and we take seriously how much of your time is spent playing versus managing your play. Hopefully, this decision will help ensure a steady supply of materials to the market, without unduly burdening your bags.

>

 

This is one of these situations where the devs creating an inconvenience to entire player base trying to make changes in the economy for something that will be fix itself in under a month through supply and demand. Why would you make such a dumb decision is beyond me.

 

On the plus side you can down vote dev posts. How nice B)

[kevs.8674]

Went from " hyyyyyyyyyyyyyyype 3 days left " to " f****, tons of materials to store in my inventory AGAIN ".

Can we just enjoy the game and let the items we'll need later (because we will ! ) get stored ?

 

What about fixing actual issues instead of speculation ? Mystic coins are needed in every new legendary item you add but there's no new way to get them. This price doesn't bother you ?

I feel like the " legendary journey " is now all about farming gold to pay for that item...

[Pifil.5193]

Well, I currently deposit all because I don't know when I'll need something. Now I won't be able to deposit these mystery mats so they'll just clog up my inventory until I can stack them in the bank because I don't know when I'll need something.

 

Basically, I won't sell something I might need.

[Pifil.5193]

> @Stalkingwolf.6035 said:

> > @Timo.1065 said:

> > On Reddit there is big discussion with Anet emproyee about economy and bad situation with prices. Their explanation about their storage move is to reduce price for mats.

> > They forgott that there is another easy way to reduse price of mats. Just make it more acceable for players to gather it.

>

> or reduce them. 18.000 Wood/Ore/ is just insane.

 

There's the thing. The high-price of Flax seed, for example, wasn't because we could deposit them straight away it was because you needed 20 Flax Seeds for a single Vial of Linseed Oil and you needed so many of those Vials of Linseed Oil for crafting or guild hall upgrades. For example, Guild Hall Decorations Merchant 1 alone requires 2,000 Flax Seeds.

 

The problem is that you introduced new materials in limited numbers and at the exact same time introduced massive sinks for it. This has repeated so many times. Look at Foxfire clusters, they weren't depositable for a long while and the price for over a year start was really high. Why was the price high? Because the price is set by the "cash rich, time poor" people and they were in a rush to get their Mawdrey II.

 

Oh well, I look forward to them adding this stuff to the material storage. I just hope we won't be waiting two years for Linsey Murdock to try to find spare time to do it.

[ThomasC.1056]

> @Ashen.2907 said:

> I know that the company's decision to knowingly, purposefully, seek to inconvenience me in game, for the sake of that inconvenience, affects my perception of the company, the game, the individual employees making the decision (or defending it), and the gemstore.

 

That saddens me a lot. The new expansion release should be a happy moment, a celebration, lots of hype and so forth. Like something really good and positive. And now, it all sounds like somebody adds : "Hey ! We all know that inventory management is a pain, but why wouldn't we just mess a little more with it at release, and taint the overall excited mood of friday's ? Wouldn't that be great to just bother them at this happy moment ?"

 

It's less painful to know beforehand, but it remains a Darwin Award move...

 

[Rennie.6750]

> @TwilightSoul.9048 said:

> Might as well throw my opinion into this mess as well.

>

> 1) Why did you bother creating a new forum? Seeing as you still seem to pay more attention to top 5 reddit threads then your own forum this seems to be a waste of time and effort, this Forum will end up like the previous one. A place full of Bug reports, complaints, suggestions and discussions that are just beeing discarded at some point. Maybe you shouldn't call this the "official Guildwars 2 Forum" when you don't tread it as such. I was never a big fan of reddit so I was very happy to see that there is a new official forum, but now that it doesn't get the attention it needs... oh well I guess it doesn't really change anything either way.~~.

 

It's almost like having a company policy on where feedback is collected and where to respond to it is a foreign and alien thing. B)

 

Sad to see that the devs dont care about us in general and will only favour reddit because hardcore players can deal with whatever bs they come up with due to an enormous time and emotional investment.

[Zoria.1392]

Sorry, but this is, simply, another marketing ploy to sell inventory space. You continue to drop more and more crap-- and deny key rings, collection item storage and wallet storage to increase sales.

 

NO ONE is going to sell off the new mats because your new recipes will call for these items, be hard to get enough of through normal play, and make finished products that are account bound. If you really cared about prices, you would stop making everything account bound so people had option to sell mats and buy finished products.

 

Every decision now is cash shop centric, including unidentified crap that is only there to sell personal ID kits and shared inventory and sink gold-- which is another way to encourage cash shop. This isn't the buy to play, remove all aggravating things from other games, you were founded on.

[ShiroiKarasu.1825]

Imagine if we didn't get an inventory filled with essences of luck, kitten runes and sigils when salvaging. Would we need to deposit materials between salvages then?

[Spartacus.1549]

the worst excuse i ever saw.... all i read is buy inv slots and bank tabs, sorry but thats my pov on this

[silvermember.8941]

> @Pifil.5193 said:

> > @Stalkingwolf.6035 said:

> > > @Timo.1065 said:

> > > On Reddit there is big discussion with Anet emproyee about economy and bad situation with prices. Their explanation about their storage move is to reduce price for mats.

> > > They forgott that there is another easy way to reduse price of mats. Just make it more acceable for players to gather it.

> >

> > or reduce them. 18.000 Wood/Ore/ is just insane.

>

> There's the thing. The high-price of Flax seed, for example, wasn't because we could deposit them straight away it was because you needed 20 Flax Seeds for a single Vial of Linseed Oil and you needed so many of those Vials of Linseed Oil for crafting or guild hall upgrades. For example, Guild Hall Decorations Merchant 1 alone requires 2,000 Flax Seeds.

>

> The problem is that you introduced new materials in limited numbers and at the exact same time introduced massive sinks for it. This has repeated so many times. Look at Foxfire clusters, they weren't depositable for a long while and the price for over a year start was really high. Why was the price high? Because the price is set by the "cash rich, time poor" people and they were in a rush to get their Mawdrey II.

>

> Oh well, I look forward to them adding this stuff to the material storage. I just hope we won't be waiting two years for Linsey Murdock to try to find spare time to do it.

 

If you actually read the comment from Reddit they explain it very carefully. The supply of Flax was far greater than the demand. The problem is that the majority of players aka not redditors nor forum warriors or people in a guild, were simply depositing it into their banks and never looking at it again. It is always important to remember that the number of casual players are greater than those in a guild who needed flax.

 

By limiting depositing, they hope a certain percentage of players would sell it on the TP instead of simply depositing it in their banks never to see it again. They also acknowledge that some my sell it to merchant, just like some sell precursors to NPCs.

 

Final, they are doing this because it has been shown to be effective in the past. Remember all those materials without a "deposit" to bank option?

[MMAI.5892]

I doubt I'll add anything new here.....

 

I appreciate that you are trying to keep the economy healthy for trading. I work in accounting and have been absolutely fascinated by the market and analyzing it in gw2 (my first MMO). That being said, there are a lot of inventory headaches and crafting headaches in this game. If those had been addressed beforehand, this decision might not have generated such an outcry, but they weren't and here we are. I also think it's unfair to players just coming into PoF. Yeah, they might get some gold upfront, but if these mats are integral to new recipes for gear that become the hot new thing or the hot new items, you're going to burn some of them when they realized that they got hoodwinked into selling.

 

If you want to encourage ppl who don't craft or truly hoard to sell, try in game reminders or displays on how much their mat banks are worth. Inconveniencing everyone to hopefully, temporarily solve a problem just seems like the worst possible solution. Or let us select items that we want ingame to see how much it will take to craft or buy. In short put something like gw2efficiency in game where ppl - even the most casual - can track their progress without having to use outside tools that they might not even know about.

 

While I can see that there may be enough players who will sell on the TP as it will be more convenient, thus 'getting out ahead' of mat prices early on, this decision is still one that I don't like for a variety of reasons. For background, I've played GW2 for a little over a year. Why do I deposit all? Several reasons:

1.) Cleans out bags faster so that I play instead of spending an inordinate amount of time going through my bags item by item.

2.) I never know what I might need and when. Let me tell you, when I first hit lvl 80 and crafting and buying mats hit my radar, I was shellshocked at some of the prices due to quantity. I was left with "play Silverwastes and AB 5ever to farm gold" or store and forget until I had enough of the rarest mat I needed to make whatever I was trying to make. There are still items from HoT that I couldn't tell you want they do and they aren't worth enough on the TP for me to bother looking into them. The mats from HoT that *are* worth something are ones that I want but don't have enough yet to craft.

3.) For a new/newish player there are hundreds of things to craft in this game and the learning curve to select the ones you want and the ones you might need is decently steep - meaning I've spent far more time on wiki and gw2efficiency trying to figure those things out than I want to spend. (Hint: I want to play and use ingame resources to figure those out rather than watch videos, read forums, etc only to come to the depressing conclusion that I'm not getting to that item anytime soon.)

4.) I don't like 'sell now, buy it when you need it later' when it comes to mats. This makes trying out the effectiveness of new build, or just to play one for fun less tenable because prices when I sell could be significantly lower than when I turn around and buy. And well, Anet, you make some MASSIVE sinks for materials.

5.) I'm probably in a lot of your 'hoarder' metrics, but the items I'm collecting fall into 2 categories: things I need to get what I want or stuff that's worthless and not worth bothering until I have quite a few stacks to sell off at once. I could liquidate my bank and mat bank entirely and still not be able to buy a quarter of my wish list. I know; I've run the math.

 

Generally, speaking I'm okay with TP prices/costs. It's my choice as a player to decide whether or not to buy the last things that I need for a particular crafting project or to just wait and see where I am after I meet other objectives, like y'know playing the story and/or achievements. But I'm not okay with being forced into selling things on the Tp. Especially when my personal bank is over run with trophy and collection items that I will have to wiki, find out if I can trash it, take the time trashing it, etc. I expect some time to be spent on inventory management and that's fine, but this change, for me, will only make it worse as now I'll have to meticulously go through each item, see what it's used for, determine whether or not to save or sell based on my limited bank space, then TP or go to the bank.

 

That's tedious and boring and yes, it's frustrating to know that you guys have done this before and probably part of why my bank space was so crowded at points.

 

[Stu Grockalot.2937]

> @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> With the arrival of Path of Fire, many new materials and components will be added to Material Storage. But for a handful of items, we've specifically decided not to start with them in Material Storage, and instead to add them to the storage system later. Why? Well, at the launch of Heart of Thorns, we noticed a peculiar behavior: most players will deposit first when clearing their inventory, and then proceed to take actions like salvaging, opening chests, or, crucially, putting items on the Trading Post. This tended to mean that before a player will post an item on the Trading Post, they'll wait to accrue a full stack in their Material Storage. During the early period of Heart of Thorns, this significantly contributed to the early expense of flax, which was abundantly available but, for the most part, was "warehoused" in the banks of players.

>

> In an experiment to see if we can combat the early steep price of a handful of materials, we will launch Path of Fire without those items being depositable. Once we are comfortable with the supply and price—which we believe should become apparent in weeks, not months—we will add them to material storage.

>

> We know how important inventory space is to players, and we take seriously how much of your time is spent playing versus managing your play. Hopefully, this decision will help ensure a steady supply of materials to the market, without unduly burdening your bags.

>

 

Gaile,

 

I think there are a number of different facets to this. While, in theory, it is a good idea. In all practicality, it is a terrible idea and here is why:

 

1. By not allowing players to deposit items into the bank, you are now providing an easy way for horders to identify which materials to horde and hold onto.

2. If players want to horde, they will. Players will now only create a new player, specifically for hording the items that are now being clearly highlighted as potentially valuable. All players need to do is factor in the amount of gold to convert into gems for an additional account, when listing the prices on the trading post.

 

It was unwise to bring adverse attention to this potential gold exploit! :(

 

Stu.

[Boneheart.3561]

Yes! I'm on board, because I really wanted to more easily commission my guild hall's tavern but the price on flax seed was (maybe still is?) insane.

 

Thank you.

[Fishrock.5207]

Sounds like my guild bank will be getting some use.

 

(This actually seems like a reasonable idea to do, to me.)

[Boneheart.3561]

> @kevs.8674 said:

> Went from " hyyyyyyyyyyyyyyype 3 days left " to " f****, tons of materials to store in my inventory AGAIN ".

> Can we just enjoy the game and let the items we'll need later (because we will ! ) get stored ?

>

> What about fixing actual issues instead of speculation ? Mystic coins are needed in every new legendary item you add but there's no new way to get them. This price doesn't bother you ?

> I feel like the " legendary journey " is now all about farming gold to pay for that item...

 

I think you skipped the part where flax seed is an abundant resource.

So when you require the item later, you can buy it at a reasonable price or easily acquire it again.

[Ryucyon.5279]

Since storage is a paid upgrade, there's too much conflict of interest for me to be comfortable with a change like this. I appreciate what you're trying to accomplish, but a solution which doesn't push people to buy more storage for an arbitrary limitation would be a better way to handle this.

[Bunter.3795]

> @silvermember.8941 said:

> >>

> If you actually read the comment from Reddit they explain it very carefully. The supply of Flax was far greater than the demand. The problem is that the majority of players aka not redditors nor forum warriors or people in a guild, were simply depositing it into their banks and never looking at it again. It is always important to remember that the number of casual players are greater than those in a guild who needed flax.

>

> By limiting depositing, they hope a certain percentage of players would sell it on the TP instead of simply depositing it in their banks never to see it again. They also acknowledge that some my sell it to merchant, just like some sell precursors to NPCs.

>

> Final, they are doing this because it has been shown to be effective in the past. Remember all those materials without a "deposit" to bank option?

 

Why should I read the quote on Reddit? I play GUILD WARS 2 not Reddit Wars. This is the brand new forums, the Arenanet posts should be here and not on some other forums/discussion engine that I do not use or want to use.

[VerdantThorn.9345]

"In an experiment to see if we can combat the early steep price of a handful of materials, we will launch Path of Fire without those items being depositable. Once we are comfortable with the supply and price—which we believe should become apparent in weeks, not months—we will add them to material storage."

 

I understand what you are doing and why, but may I suggest that this is not the best way to go about it? It would be easier, less disruptive and more effective to temporarily increase the per-strike drop rate of farmed mats, and the yield of salvaged mats. That's not just based on my opinion, but a few applicable real-world examples.

 

There are a number of countries around the world that, because of resource shortages and out of a desire to minimize the impact of famines, have enacted "anti-hoarding" laws. Those laws say that you can only have 3 months, 6 months or a year (or some other amount like that) of food in your home at any one time. These laws are designed to keep the food circulating to them who need it and to keep the prices affordable without government price controls, but their outcome is very mixed. To a certain degree they DO work as intended, but they also often create a perception of scarcity which causes people to hoard more and wait for a seller's market in which they can drop their excess and make coin, or hoard because of perceived future scarcity in violation of the law. Obviously you can't just "violate the law" when you're talking about programmed elements of a game, but you CAN hoard materials in your bank and wait for a price spike. There will be people who do that.

 

Rather than follow that strategy, do what Wizards of the Coast did with Magic cards - balance supply to demand. At the start of Path of Fire there is going to be a HUGE spike in demand for those materials, just like at the start of a Magic set there is huge demand for the new cards. That's because no one has the mats/cards yet and wants to build decks/stuff with them. When WotC first releases a set, they put out a relative glut of the powerful, nice cards, and later on start dialing back so that the prices stabilize. The same can be true here. If instead of 1-3 Ore/Wood per swipe you got 2-5 or 3-7, that would make a huge difference to the price on the TP. If the same was true across the board, and you later dialed it back after the surge in demand died down, you could easily and with a minimum of trouble manage the price going forward.

 

Yes, people will complain about the drop rate being "nerfed," but they are already complaining about this. And, it will allow the hoarders to get their fill early on, then buy and sell to the TP as they normally do, playing into their natural inclinations rather than working against them.

 

Be well and have a great day :+1:

[Birman.1705]

Wow, really? I always thought that someone at Arena Net has been surprisingly bad at their job by forgetting to add some materials to material storage from start. Now I know lol.

Dear Arena Net, not all of us have a KITTENton of bag space. Please reconsider! Thank you!

 

Edit: Apparently there's no Kittenator.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

Not going to lie, this seems like a bad idea. Early high prices for mats just means that early sellers (like me) will benefit from the high demand.

[sorudo.9054]

i already have enough currency they refuse to add as currency, i also have enough materials i can't store.

and yes, with this decision all i get is even more junk i can't store properly, Anet really need to think really hard why they love to screw ppl over.

[Loboling.5293]

I'm not a fan of limiting depositing materials. High costs are part of the expansion, if players choose to store them for later use, or sell them its their choice. I don't like the idea of materials purposfully being blocked from accessing storage. I've bought all 14 bank tabs, and have 20 slot bags on all my characters.... It still feels limiting on my main characters, who often hold 3-4 sets of gear and multiple weapons.

 

Crafting materials need to go into storage please. Don't worry about pricing, players will control that themselves. Back then, I (maybe 1 months after launch) realized what the flax was for and sold my reserves. I'm sure many players do this too. Nothing wrong with supply and demand meeting the reality of holding assets.