Wintersday Balance Wish: Shadow Trap fixed

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

just gonna leave this here: it doesn't work like it used to and uses line of sight when its 10,000 range? really?! sure would be nice if we had an open field with no rocks or trees but when the hell is this ever gonna occur? just smash phase traversal with a trap effect and add 10k range and ill be happy again in spvp.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Lithril Ashwalker.6230" said:

> just gonna leave this here: it doesn't work like it used to and uses line of sight when its 10,000 range? really?! sure would be nice if we had an open field with no rocks or trees but when the hell is this ever gonna occur? just smash phase traversal with a trap effect and add 10k range and ill be happy again in spvp.

 

the trap would be awesome without LoS and would probably make me run it permanently again in WvW. it requires LoS for a long time now, tho on some spots it doesnt(for instance alpine hills you can teleport from inide lordroom to outside of it with no LoS). i use it mainly in WvW if i solo build catas on alpine/ebg and before Deadeye i used it alot to teleport thorugh keeps when i stepped into an anti stealth trap, hoping that the effect would be gone when they catch up (when using over 5k range here with loading screen, i had the feeling the revealed duration was also lowered by that loading screen -not actually tested just a feeling)

without LoS it would be more reliable and actually worth taking, but they might need to nerf the range in that case a bit. ideally 5k range without LoS and only 30s cd is what i would like it to be.

in pve i used it back when dungeons where a thing to teleport the orb in arah, not sure if i had LoS there.

 

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

wish others would comment on solutions

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

To ignore LOS, the developer either take your character under the ground and sprout at the location or up in the air and dropped at the location.

 

What happens if they choose to go underground and your trap is on a bridge over a cliff? You will fall into the cliff.

What happens if they choose to go the skyway and your trap is indoors? You end up on top of a roof or mountain (if inside a cave).

 

Thus, they opted to use surface pathing with collision detection (LOS).

 

Why have a collision detection that a small rock can prevent a 10k shadowstep?

 

Without the collision detection, it will allow the Thief to place the trap inside the fort when they own the fort, then it will trigger when they lose the fort, followed by the Thief activating the trap to bypass the gates and get inside the fort. This is why shadowstep is not a portal, it would be too powerful.

 

In a perfectly executed skill mechanic, the skill will trace an uninterruptable path and use that path when the trap is activated. The skill function will have to answer a lot of questions. Is it indoors? Is it behind closed walls? Is it on a bridge? How many collision to ignore? How many collision to acknowledge? Is the detected collision valid? and many other questions. The function will have to keep track of all these answers. It would slow the game down since it will require some RAM space for answers multiplied by how many other Thieves using the same skill within range. GW2 will have a steep minimum system requirement. If you think that the game lags now, wait until we have Shadow Trap calculates for an uninterruptable path for a whole zerg of Thieves. There is a solution, but it's not cheap for either ArenaNet and the player.

 

Unless ArenaNet wants to reprogram on how Shadow Trap works and give it a special mechanic, we get what we get.

 

The cheapest solution is to make the max range 3k instead of 10k.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> To ignore LOS, the developer either take your character under the ground and sprout at the location or up in the air and dropped at the location.

>

> What happens if they choose to go underground and your trap is on a bridge over a cliff? You will fall into the cliff.

> What happens if they choose to go the skyway and your trap is indoors? You end up on top of a roof or mountain (if inside a cave).

>

> Thus, they opted to use surface pathing with collision detection (LOS).

>

> Why have a collision detection that a small rock can prevent a 10k shadowstep?

>

> Without the collision detection, it will allow the Thief to place the trap inside the fort when they own the fort, then it will trigger when they lose the fort, followed by the Thief activating the trap to bypass the gates and get inside the fort. This is why shadowstep is not a portal, it would be too powerful.

>

> In a perfectly executed skill mechanic, the skill will trace an uninterruptable path and use that path when the trap is activated. The skill function will have to answer a lot of questions. Is it indoors? Is it behind closed walls? Is it on a bridge? How many collision to ignore? How many collision to acknowledge? Is the detected collision valid? and many other questions. The function will have to keep track of all these answers. It would slow the game down since it will require some RAM space for answers multiplied by how many other Thieves using the same skill within range. GW2 will have a steep minimum system requirement. If you think that the game lags now, wait until we have Shadow Trap calculates for an uninterruptable path for a whole zerg of Thieves. There is a solution, but it's not cheap for either ArenaNet and the player.

>

> Unless ArenaNet wants to reprogram on how Shadow Trap works and give it a special mechanic, we get what we get.

>

> The cheapest solution is to make the max range 3k instead of 10k.

 

they can still make a 'valid path to target' without a LoS requirement, like you can port thorugh little obstacles on to your target with sword skill2 or revs phase traversal, you cant port into objectives with it tho unless their are open and even then not through all walls/gates. so basically just asking it to behave like other shadowsteps in the game not like a portal. shadow trap has a special restricted shadow step, so it has kind of a unique mechanic right now.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

Keep the line of sight requirement, but make it a special case.

 

Change the skill to a two pass solution.

 

The requirement is that a valid path must at least exist.

 

The first requires line of sight. If line of sight is granted, you may teleport at a 10k radius from the trap.

If no line of sight exists, then a valid path must exist. This path must have a distance traveled no greater than 10k. If the path is between 10k-15k units you teleport as far as the 10k distance allows.

 

This means that a thief that is visible to the trap will be able to teleport from a further distance. If a player can see the trap, they probably can see the thief. If the thief can not see the trap, than in reality he has a variable length that is less than 10k to teleport. Behavior becomes more consistent, and gives some amount of protection to other players against thieves. It's true, that mesmers can teleport without restrictions, as long as they've been to location a and b. But Thieves can really mess someone up from the cloaking they get, and it doubles as an alarm.

 

When it is fixed, this skill will no doubt be fucking terrifying in the hands of core, DE, and DD.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> Keep the line of sight requirement, but make it a special case.

>

> Change the skill to a two pass solution.

>

> The requirement is that a valid path must at least exist.

>

> The first requires line of sight. If line of sight is granted, you may teleport at a 10k radius from the trap.

> If no line of sight exists, then a valid path must exist. This path must have a distance traveled no greater than 10k. If the path is between 10k-15k units you teleport as far as the 10k distance allows.

>

> This means that a thief that is visible to the trap will be able to teleport from a further distance. If a player can see the trap, they probably can see the thief. If the thief can not see the trap, than in reality he has a variable length that is less than 10k to teleport. Behavior becomes more consistent, and gives some amount of protection to other players against thieves. It's true, that mesmers can teleport without restrictions, as long as they've been to location a and b. But Thieves can really mess someone up from the cloaking they get, and it doubles as an alarm.

>

> When it is fixed, this skill will no doubt be kitten terrifying in the hands of core, DE, and DD.

 

soo if i put it inside sn on the cannon on upper floor i can teleport back there from outside of sn cause i have Los and therefor dont need path? cause you said for no LoS

a second time exclusivly that a path has to exist if no LoS, so bit confused.

anyway i like your idea. tho i am not sure if for 2nd version the 'in range' indicator below the skill will work.

 

[AikijinX.6258]

If Anet had us choose between what we wanted fixed, And the options were:

Fix LoS issue (Can't be obstructed by blades of grass)

or

Making Shadow trap operate how it used to (INSTA-cast Shadow return)

I'd choose instacast Shadow return: With all these shadowsteps and teleport abilities, it sucks, but we just gotta position ourselves and keep a library of portable spots in our head.

 

But not being able to shadow return because of a Thief daze spamming you, or interrupted in general by any class, putting the skill on CD is triggering.

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

the only thing i miss is being able to port back where i placed the trap... if i wont be able to port there, why be able to place the trap?

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

> @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> Keep the line of sight requirement, but make it a special case.

>

> Change the skill to a two pass solution.

>

> The requirement is that a valid path must at least exist.

>

> The first requires line of sight. If line of sight is granted, you may teleport at a 10k radius from the trap.

> If no line of sight exists, then a valid path must exist. This path must have a distance traveled no greater than 10k. If the path is between 10k-15k units you teleport as far as the 10k distance allows.

>

> This means that a thief that is visible to the trap will be able to teleport from a further distance. If a player can see the trap, they probably can see the thief. If the thief can not see the trap, than in reality he has a variable length that is less than 10k to teleport. Behavior becomes more consistent, and gives some amount of protection to other players against thieves. It's true, that mesmers can teleport without restrictions, as long as they've been to location a and b. But Thieves can really mess someone up from the cloaking they get, and it doubles as an alarm.

>

> When it is fixed, this skill will no doubt be kitten terrifying in the hands of core, DE, and DD.

 

would essentially still act like Phase Traversal yeah?

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > Keep the line of sight requirement, but make it a special case.

> >

> > Change the skill to a two pass solution.

> >

> > The requirement is that a valid path must at least exist.

> >

> > The first requires line of sight. If line of sight is granted, you may teleport at a 10k radius from the trap.

> > If no line of sight exists, then a valid path must exist. This path must have a distance traveled no greater than 10k. If the path is between 10k-15k units you teleport as far as the 10k distance allows.

> >

> > This means that a thief that is visible to the trap will be able to teleport from a further distance. If a player can see the trap, they probably can see the thief. If the thief can not see the trap, than in reality he has a variable length that is less than 10k to teleport. Behavior becomes more consistent, and gives some amount of protection to other players against thieves. It's true, that mesmers can teleport without restrictions, as long as they've been to location a and b. But Thieves can really mess someone up from the cloaking they get, and it doubles as an alarm.

> >

> > When it is fixed, this skill will no doubt be kitten terrifying in the hands of core, DE, and DD.

>

> soo if i put it inside sn on the cannon on upper floor i can teleport back there from outside of sn cause i have Los and therefor dont need path? cause you said for no LoS

> a second time exclusivly that a path has to exist if no LoS, so bit confused.

> anyway i like your idea. tho i am not sure if for 2nd version the 'in range' indicator below the skill will work.

>

 

First case requires path and LoS. As Long as you can see the trap, the distance is computed as if you can fly directly there.

 

Second case is when you can't see it. Distance is then computed as if you had to walk to it on the shortest path. If you are around a corner you walk forward 10ft turn left walk 5ft to the trap.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > > Keep the line of sight requirement, but make it a special case.

> > >

> > > Change the skill to a two pass solution.

> > >

> > > The requirement is that a valid path must at least exist.

> > >

> > > The first requires line of sight. If line of sight is granted, you may teleport at a 10k radius from the trap.

> > > If no line of sight exists, then a valid path must exist. This path must have a distance traveled no greater than 10k. If the path is between 10k-15k units you teleport as far as the 10k distance allows.

> > >

> > > This means that a thief that is visible to the trap will be able to teleport from a further distance. If a player can see the trap, they probably can see the thief. If the thief can not see the trap, than in reality he has a variable length that is less than 10k to teleport. Behavior becomes more consistent, and gives some amount of protection to other players against thieves. It's true, that mesmers can teleport without restrictions, as long as they've been to location a and b. But Thieves can really mess someone up from the cloaking they get, and it doubles as an alarm.

> > >

> > > When it is fixed, this skill will no doubt be kitten terrifying in the hands of core, DE, and DD.

> >

> > soo if i put it inside sn on the cannon on upper floor i can teleport back there from outside of sn cause i have Los and therefor dont need path? cause you said for no LoS

> > a second time exclusivly that a path has to exist if no LoS, so bit confused.

> > anyway i like your idea. tho i am not sure if for 2nd version the 'in range' indicator below the skill will work.

> >

>

> First case requires path and LoS. As Long as you can see the trap, the distance is computed as if you can fly directly there.

>

> Second case is when you can't see it. Distance is then computed as if you had to walk to it on the shortest path. If you are around a corner you walk forward 10ft turn left walk 5ft to the trap.

 

thanks for clarification.

i just realized that this trap is super op on my deadeye...

i can mark a target and at 3-4 malice place trap, run away to like 2-3k range, start casting DJ with no target no noting and use shadow pursuit towards end, this will teleport me to the target and i will hit ..just tested it in guild arena so far, after a little sleep i will try in WvW this is amwazing if it works there .who will dogge cause a deadeye on 2-3k range appears out of stealth? most will expect a shadow step to get more in range and then the slow bullet so a dogge would be too early.

 

Edit: now after testing a bit i dont really want to give up the other utilities especially against multiple opponents, but vs only 1 especially thief/mesmer its good with 10 more might i got higher chance to 1 shot backstab.

[babazhook.6805]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > > > Keep the line of sight requirement, but make it a special case.

> > > >

> > > > Change the skill to a two pass solution.

> > > >

> > > > The requirement is that a valid path must at least exist.

> > > >

> > > > The first requires line of sight. If line of sight is granted, you may teleport at a 10k radius from the trap.

> > > > If no line of sight exists, then a valid path must exist. This path must have a distance traveled no greater than 10k. If the path is between 10k-15k units you teleport as far as the 10k distance allows.

> > > >

> > > > This means that a thief that is visible to the trap will be able to teleport from a further distance. If a player can see the trap, they probably can see the thief. If the thief can not see the trap, than in reality he has a variable length that is less than 10k to teleport. Behavior becomes more consistent, and gives some amount of protection to other players against thieves. It's true, that mesmers can teleport without restrictions, as long as they've been to location a and b. But Thieves can really mess someone up from the cloaking they get, and it doubles as an alarm.

> > > >

> > > > When it is fixed, this skill will no doubt be kitten terrifying in the hands of core, DE, and DD.

> > >

> > > soo if i put it inside sn on the cannon on upper floor i can teleport back there from outside of sn cause i have Los and therefor dont need path? cause you said for no LoS

> > > a second time exclusivly that a path has to exist if no LoS, so bit confused.

> > > anyway i like your idea. tho i am not sure if for 2nd version the 'in range' indicator below the skill will work.

> > >

> >

> > First case requires path and LoS. As Long as you can see the trap, the distance is computed as if you can fly directly there.

> >

> > Second case is when you can't see it. Distance is then computed as if you had to walk to it on the shortest path. If you are around a corner you walk forward 10ft turn left walk 5ft to the trap.

>

> thanks for clarification.

> i just realized that this trap is super op on my deadeye...

> i can mark a target and at 3-4 malice place trap, run away to like 2-3k range, start casting DJ with no target no noting and use shadow pursuit towards end, this will teleport me to the target and i will hit ..just tested it in guild arena so far, after a little sleep i will try in WvW this is amwazing if it works there .who will dogge cause a deadeye on 2-3k range appears out of stealth? most will expect a shadow step to get more in range and then the slow bullet so a dogge would be too early.

 

I use this trap on my DE. I will set it up in a prime location. , move to another area mark and fire. In time I am located and closed on so pop over to the trap. This is WvW. It has all manner of utility. IE as you flee from a foe drop it sas they pursue . Port in behind when they trip it.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > > > Keep the line of sight requirement, but make it a special case.

> > > >

> > > > Change the skill to a two pass solution.

> > > >

> > > > The requirement is that a valid path must at least exist.

> > > >

> > > > The first requires line of sight. If line of sight is granted, you may teleport at a 10k radius from the trap.

> > > > If no line of sight exists, then a valid path must exist. This path must have a distance traveled no greater than 10k. If the path is between 10k-15k units you teleport as far as the 10k distance allows.

> > > >

> > > > This means that a thief that is visible to the trap will be able to teleport from a further distance. If a player can see the trap, they probably can see the thief. If the thief can not see the trap, than in reality he has a variable length that is less than 10k to teleport. Behavior becomes more consistent, and gives some amount of protection to other players against thieves. It's true, that mesmers can teleport without restrictions, as long as they've been to location a and b. But Thieves can really mess someone up from the cloaking they get, and it doubles as an alarm.

> > > >

> > > > When it is fixed, this skill will no doubt be kitten terrifying in the hands of core, DE, and DD.

> > >

> > > soo if i put it inside sn on the cannon on upper floor i can teleport back there from outside of sn cause i have Los and therefor dont need path? cause you said for no LoS

> > > a second time exclusivly that a path has to exist if no LoS, so bit confused.

> > > anyway i like your idea. tho i am not sure if for 2nd version the 'in range' indicator below the skill will work.

> > >

> >

> > First case requires path and LoS. As Long as you can see the trap, the distance is computed as if you can fly directly there.

> >

> > Second case is when you can't see it. Distance is then computed as if you had to walk to it on the shortest path. If you are around a corner you walk forward 10ft turn left walk 5ft to the trap.

>

> thanks for clarification.

> i just realized that this trap is super op on my deadeye...

> i can mark a target and at 3-4 malice place trap, run away to like 2-3k range, start casting DJ with no target no noting and use shadow pursuit towards end, this will teleport me to the target and i will hit ..just tested it in guild arena so far, after a little sleep i will try in WvW this is amwazing if it works there .who will dogge cause a deadeye on 2-3k range appears out of stealth? most will expect a shadow step to get more in range and then the slow bullet so a dogge would be too early.

>

> Edit: now after testing a bit i dont really want to give up the other utilities especially against multiple opponents, but vs only 1 especially thief/mesmer its good with 10 more might i got higher chance to 1 shot backstab.

 

During PoF's beta, I was actually experimenting with defending a camp with Deadeye's traps. Traps on Deadeye are SUUUUUUUUUUPER stupid.

[Zacchary.6183]

> @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > > > > Keep the line of sight requirement, but make it a special case.

> > > > >

> > > > > Change the skill to a two pass solution.

> > > > >

> > > > > The requirement is that a valid path must at least exist.

> > > > >

> > > > > The first requires line of sight. If line of sight is granted, you may teleport at a 10k radius from the trap.

> > > > > If no line of sight exists, then a valid path must exist. This path must have a distance traveled no greater than 10k. If the path is between 10k-15k units you teleport as far as the 10k distance allows.

> > > > >

> > > > > This means that a thief that is visible to the trap will be able to teleport from a further distance. If a player can see the trap, they probably can see the thief. If the thief can not see the trap, than in reality he has a variable length that is less than 10k to teleport. Behavior becomes more consistent, and gives some amount of protection to other players against thieves. It's true, that mesmers can teleport without restrictions, as long as they've been to location a and b. But Thieves can really mess someone up from the cloaking they get, and it doubles as an alarm.

> > > > >

> > > > > When it is fixed, this skill will no doubt be kitten terrifying in the hands of core, DE, and DD.

> > > >

> > > > soo if i put it inside sn on the cannon on upper floor i can teleport back there from outside of sn cause i have Los and therefor dont need path? cause you said for no LoS

> > > > a second time exclusivly that a path has to exist if no LoS, so bit confused.

> > > > anyway i like your idea. tho i am not sure if for 2nd version the 'in range' indicator below the skill will work.

> > > >

> > >

> > > First case requires path and LoS. As Long as you can see the trap, the distance is computed as if you can fly directly there.

> > >

> > > Second case is when you can't see it. Distance is then computed as if you had to walk to it on the shortest path. If you are around a corner you walk forward 10ft turn left walk 5ft to the trap.

> >

> > thanks for clarification.

> > i just realized that this trap is super op on my deadeye...

> > i can mark a target and at 3-4 malice place trap, run away to like 2-3k range, start casting DJ with no target no noting and use shadow pursuit towards end, this will teleport me to the target and i will hit ..just tested it in guild arena so far, after a little sleep i will try in WvW this is amwazing if it works there .who will dogge cause a deadeye on 2-3k range appears out of stealth? most will expect a shadow step to get more in range and then the slow bullet so a dogge would be too early.

> >

> > Edit: now after testing a bit i dont really want to give up the other utilities especially against multiple opponents, but vs only 1 especially thief/mesmer its good with 10 more might i got higher chance to 1 shot backstab.

>

> During PoF's beta, I was actually experimenting with defending a camp with Deadeye's traps. Traps on Deadeye are SUUUUUUUUUUPER stupid.

 

Lol did they actually work?

[Turk.5460]

Wouldn't this work better if they treated it the same way mesmer portal is treated? --I mean how the game moves you once you enter the portal.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Turk.5460" said:

> Wouldn't this work better if they treated it the same way mesmer portal is treated? --I mean how the game moves you once you enter the portal.

 

well for us thieves it would. but there will be issues in WvW with it. dunno if spvp will be much affected, but you will have an even harder time to get a thief out of your castle then. unless that trap is visible like mesmer portal and well a visible trap is kinda :D

thief is already hardest to get out of your castle especially with shadow meld and i can kill any lord solo with beserk thief, so guess others as well.

[Turk.5460]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > Wouldn't this work better if they treated it the same way mesmer portal is treated? --I mean how the game moves you once you enter the portal.

>

> well for us thieves it would. but there will be issues in WvW with it. dunno if spvp will be much affected, but you will have an even harder time to get a thief out of your castle then. unless that trap is visible like mesmer portal and well a visible trap is kinda :D

> thief is already hardest to get out of your castle especially with shadow meld and i can kill any lord solo with beserk thief, so guess others as well.

 

Maybe it is possible to make it so the skill cannot be placed inside towers or keeps. I can't think of a use besides ninja'ing where you would benefit from it being placed inside a tower or keep. It certainly does not see much (if any) usage right now, so changing it to a mesmer-portal style teleport, yet making structures off-limits would probably earn it a slot on more people's skillbars.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Turk.5460" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > Wouldn't this work better if they treated it the same way mesmer portal is treated? --I mean how the game moves you once you enter the portal.

> >

> > well for us thieves it would. but there will be issues in WvW with it. dunno if spvp will be much affected, but you will have an even harder time to get a thief out of your castle then. unless that trap is visible like mesmer portal and well a visible trap is kinda :D

> > thief is already hardest to get out of your castle especially with shadow meld and i can kill any lord solo with beserk thief, so guess others as well.

>

> Maybe it is possible to make it so the skill cannot be placed inside towers or keeps. I can't think of a use besides ninja'ing where you would benefit from it being placed inside a tower or keep. It certainly does not see much (if any) usage right now, so changing it to a mesmer-portal style teleport, yet making structures off-limits would probably earn it a slot on more people's skillbars.

 

yea, but i think there is no skill that has a specific no keep / tower restriction as of right now and i am not sure if they will care about ninjaing as much as only few people do it that way. but few people can already cause alot of QQ. just look at the DJ threads compared to how many deadeyes are actually walking araound and are capable of pressing that button at the right time. and i do think that the malice on DJ applies only to marked was based on the QQ and reduced the 5 deadeyes per matchup to 2 :D

[MithranArkanere.8957]

The main problem is that it is a delayed shadowstep. If it was made into a teleport that can ignore terrain, that would allow thieves to sneak back into places they wre not meant to be by placing the trap right behind where an archer would be and have someone else fear the archer back to the trap.

 

Unlike mesmer portals, traps are only visible when they trigger.

 

One way to solve that could be making traps visible with certain effects, and/or when they are placed by an enemy when someone in your team is looking at them. That way we'd be able to do something like have a ranger Bat pet use a "Sonar" skill that can cause revealed in an area and make traps visible to allies of your team.

And traps could have an invisible spheric AoE with a massive range of 10000 units radius, that can hit just 1 enemy per team, and will make the trap visible to a team if an enemy of that team was detected in the area.

 

Once we can see a trap, we can sit it out for 5 min until the trap expires. And that would counter the "invisible return ticket" problem.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> One way to solve that could be making traps visible with certain effects, and/or when they are placed by an enemy when someone in your team is looking at them. That way we'd be able to do something like have a ranger Bat pet use a "Sonar" skill that can cause revealed in an area and make traps visible to allies of your team.

> And traps could have an invisible spheric AoE with a massive range of 10000 units radius, that can hit just 1 enemy per team, and will make the trap visible to a team if an enemy of that team was detected in the area.

>

> Once we can see a trap, we can sit it out for 5 min until the trap expires. And that would counter the "invisible return ticket" problem.

 

thats an interesting suggestion, possibly can also make trap sort of objectives like turrets but with permanent invisible buff until someone uses a reveal skill. this way you can use your reveal skills and range damage to spot and destroy traps.

 

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

heres to hoping this discussion can keep going!

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:

> > To ignore LOS, the developer either take your character under the ground and sprout at the location or up in the air and dropped at the location.

> >

> > What happens if they choose to go underground and your trap is on a bridge over a cliff? You will fall into the cliff.

> > What happens if they choose to go the skyway and your trap is indoors? You end up on top of a roof or mountain (if inside a cave).

> >

> > Thus, they opted to use surface pathing with collision detection (LOS).

> >

> > Why have a collision detection that a small rock can prevent a 10k shadowstep?

> >

> > Without the collision detection, it will allow the Thief to place the trap inside the fort when they own the fort, then it will trigger when they lose the fort, followed by the Thief activating the trap to bypass the gates and get inside the fort. This is why shadowstep is not a portal, it would be too powerful.

> >

> > In a perfectly executed skill mechanic, the skill will trace an uninterruptable path and use that path when the trap is activated. The skill function will have to answer a lot of questions. Is it indoors? Is it behind closed walls? Is it on a bridge? How many collision to ignore? How many collision to acknowledge? Is the detected collision valid? and many other questions. The function will have to keep track of all these answers. It would slow the game down since it will require some RAM space for answers multiplied by how many other Thieves using the same skill within range. GW2 will have a steep minimum system requirement. If you think that the game lags now, wait until we have Shadow Trap calculates for an uninterruptable path for a whole zerg of Thieves. There is a solution, but it's not cheap for either ArenaNet and the player.

> >

> > Unless ArenaNet wants to reprogram on how Shadow Trap works and give it a special mechanic, we get what we get.

> >

> > The cheapest solution is to make the max range 3k instead of 10k.

>

> they can still make a 'valid path to target' without a LoS requirement, like you can port thorugh little obstacles on to your target with sword skill2 or revs phase traversal, you cant port into objectives with it tho unless their are open and even then not through all walls/gates. so basically just asking it to behave like other shadowsteps in the game not like a portal. shadow trap has a special restricted shadow step, so it has kind of a unique mechanic right now.

 

The calculation to determine a valid path will take a lot of juice, especially when multiplied by the number of traps being activated. Other shadowstep skills only have a max 1200 range and even that is still a problem. For instance, to have the game remember your activation location of your Infiltrator's Strike, the game will have to save that in the computer memory for the duration. Now multiply that RAM space used by 10 times the number of players using the same skill. It would be a lagfest if not a crash.

 

As I said, it is possible, but it will be taxing to systems running at a minimum requirement. So due to the limitation of technology or due to an internal technical decision, the skill functions as it is. As I've also said, one valid solution is to limit it to 3k max range. GW2 is already memory hog as it is.

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

why not have it act like a delayed "checkpoint" thats used in some jumping puzzles. instead of just clicking and insta porting make it behave the SAME way as https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Return_to_Checkpoint_(Abaddon%27s_Ascent) but channel the same length of time as it does now and keep the range and stunbreak.

 

could make placing a shadowtrap be a place a for checkpoint as point A and return to point A upon destroy/trigger but do phase traversal checks.

[Cynz.9437]

The whole joke is: there is mechanic that works without issues. Namely mesmer porta. They could just copy paste the code, just limit it to one person.