Balance Changes Coming

[Aridon.8362]

honestly they're going to keep it the way it is. Because you know that the anet ceo plays a charr necro.

[santso.9201]

> @"Odokuro.5049" said:

> > @"Galmac.4680" said:

> > 1. You are complaining that the conditions of a group of condi classes are too deadly, but the damage of a group of dps classes, that even kills you faster, is ok? I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

>

> Except the group of Power DPS classes have to hit you reliably in order to kill you, unlike Condition DPS classes that can spam attacks/skills at you, miss half of them and still get 8+ Stacks of 5K to 8K Condi-Ticks going.

>

> Removing the Burst and replacing it with a ramp up time, will indeed, make it a war of attrition which is what it should have been, conditions should have never been a burst.

 

How is hitting hammer 2 and 3 and filling the time between 4s and 10s cd with 3-4k(sometimes as high as 6k) crit autos from rev somehow less spammy or requiring more skills than lets say scourges burst which is every 16s?

[ThomasC.1056]

> @"Odokuro.5049" said:

> > @"Galmac.4680" said:

> > 1. You are complaining that the conditions of a group of condi classes are too deadly, but the damage of a group of dps classes, that even kills you faster, is ok? I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

>

> Except the group of Power DPS classes have to hit you reliably in order to kill you, unlike Condition DPS classes that can spam attacks/skills at you, miss half of them and still get 8+ Stacks of 5K to 8K Condi-Ticks going.

>

> Removing the Burst and replacing it with a ramp up time, will indeed, make it a war of attrition which is what it should have been, conditions should have never been a burst.

 

In a perfect world, I'd agree with you. Issue is, there're two big flaws in what you're saying :

 

> @"Odokuro.5049" said:

> Except the group of Power DPS classes have to hit you reliably in order to kill you, unlike Condition DPS classes that can spam attacks/skills at you, miss half of them and still get 8+ Stacks of 5K to 8K Condi-Ticks going.

 

I understand that issue, because I play some melee power specs. But it's not an issue with conditions. It's an issue with the "engine". So that doesn't make it a valid reason to nerf conditions (and I'm not saying it isn't required).

 

> Removing the Burst and replacing it with a ramp up time, will indeed, make it a war of attrition which is what it should have been, conditions should have never been a burst.

 

That would be true if fights lasted longer than, say 5 seconds. They could put burning stacks for 150s, that wouldn't change a thing : outside of zergs, 90% of fights are done within the first burst. For power specs, it seems natural that a single burst should end it, but to me, it's not. If it's a war of attrition, as you're saying, then power specs have to so their tricks for a significant (and shorter) amount of time than condi ticks. And by "tricks", I'm not necessarily saying "perfect rotation supposed to win the fight because they told so on gankbuilds.com".

[Thani.8569]

> @"Rennie.6750" said:

> Condi is dead, that's really sad. Power meta is far less fun and interesting since there's basically no counters and it comes with a very strong first strike advantage.

 

This can't be true.

You aren't believing this aren't you ? How condi meta is fun ?

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Aridon.8362" said:

> honestly they're going to keep it the way it is. Because you know that the anet ceo plays a charr necro.

 

Is that true??????

 

If that is true theres no hope for this game.

I bet most of dev's play condi builds or power with crit close to 250% crit damage xD

[Odokuro.5049]

> @"santso.9201" said:

> > @"Odokuro.5049" said:

> > > @"Galmac.4680" said:

> > > 1. You are complaining that the conditions of a group of condi classes are too deadly, but the damage of a group of dps classes, that even kills you faster, is ok? I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

> >

> > Except the group of Power DPS classes have to hit you reliably in order to kill you, unlike Condition DPS classes that can spam attacks/skills at you, miss half of them and still get 8+ Stacks of 5K to 8K Condi-Ticks going.

> >

> > Removing the Burst and replacing it with a ramp up time, will indeed, make it a war of attrition which is what it should have been, conditions should have never been a burst.

>

> How is hitting hammer 2 and 3 and filling the time between 4s and 10s cd with 3-4k(sometimes as high as 6k) crit autos from rev somehow less spammy or requiring more skills than lets say scourges burst which is every 16s?

 

I'll give you the same advice all of the, "Condi-cheese" players give, when people complain about their conditions hitting too hard.

Dodge / Evade / Invuln / Line of Sight / Block / Protection Buff / Aegis Ect.

With those abilities, you can surely keep rolling your face to victory.

 

Besides in that window of 16s between Scourges, "Bursting" (Which again, condition damage should have NEVER been bursty.) they have loads of other sources to inflict their two largest condition dealers (Torment/Burning) and their burst consist of, overloading their target with every condition under the sun, so that even if one was to cleans/clear conditions the only ones removed would be the cover-conditions allowing the heavy hitters to remain active and melt their target down.

 

Also, isn't it a bit hypocritical to single out Revenant as the, "Problem DPS Class", when people point out Scourge is OP and Condi-users jump on those people and tell them to, "Git Gud"?

[santso.9201]

I mean even pre hot (i did play condi ranger back then) it was trying to pressure your opponent to waste cleanses and dodges to your autos and low cd skills before setting axe/torch "bomb" ppl are correct that on scourge it is bit too easy to pressure opponent, but you still need to time your bomb or you will not do dmg(against good players that is). The point is because of fb insane sustain+ heals you kinda need condis to be able to burst just because how much powercreep there has been on sustain as well.

 

Im taking rev as example because it is doing way too much dmg, also scourge is problem, but its not the dmg, its the corrupts and how path of corruption works on scourge.both of these needs to be tuned down after that you can shave fb heals/support.

[trueanimus.4085]

> @"Capodicapis.6819" said:

> Finally, necros will learn to play to kill a target instead of spamming 8 different condis in 1 sec. For me, necro will always be an overpowered class as long you can apply that many conditions in 1 or 2 sec, so stop crying guys.

> Condi damage is breaking sPvP and WvW, that's a fact, i have 2 legend titles as elementalist(Play ele since launch) and can't imagine how a melee class can survive such spam if as an sword/dagger weaver or auramancer tempest can barely do it. Also i think wvw commanders will use more scourges to compensate the first of many nerfs to condi damage, and in SPVP teams will use 2+ nec for the same purpose. No hate.

 

I hate to disagree... but condi wasnt breaking wvw... it was the sheer numbers that stacked servers have. Necro in any form (classic/reaper/scourge) never really had that much of a condi stack solo.. its just that so many people played them...

 

Now.. what will happen tommrow.. everyone thats playing a necro now will goto glass hammer rev and the process will start over again... Oh glass hammer rev is too powerful.. they can hit and stun you and load you with condi... Oh glass hammer rev has too much range and too much armor... blah blah blah..

 

When they start nerfing classes like this or just straight of game mechanics.. its hard to come back from... everyone will have their turn soon.. Enjoy your nerfs.. they are already on the way.

[trueanimus.4085]

> @"Napo.1230" said:

> Don't worry condi lovers as long as dire/trailblazer exists cheese will still exist.

 

Honestly.. with full trailblazers... we may be even more powerful since once you pop your condi clears.. and use them all.. our stacks (if we can get more than one on you) are gonna eat you for longer.. you may kill us.. but you will eventually die in the process.

[trueanimus.4085]

> @"xDudisx.5914" said:

> People are overreacting. It will probably be a slight nerf to condis, not a complete destruction of condi builds. Most builds wont have condi clear enough to remove them in small scale anyway and will end up eating most of the dmg with way.

>

> In a zerg with FB and their spamable condi clear this might be a problem.

>

 

yeah.. if you are nerfing condi.. you have to get rid of the FB condi clear spam.. or else what is the point to even try to ramp up damage like they want us to

 

[Kirin.7306]

Aw sweet so to nerf scourge they decided to killed all cond specs? lmao. Can we get free changes for our ascended gear stats?

[Kirin.7306]

but nothing for mesmer bomb. lmao.

[Jana.6831]

The patch'notes' are really vague but it seems to me as if they're still trying to fix what they broke June 2016 by doctoring around the root of the problem.

[SnowPumpkin.1809]

Tested wvw today if anything it's worse, almost no point in playing :(.

[Balthazzarr.1349]

> @"Rennie.6750" said:

> > @"kitten.5682" said:

> > o look people are loosing their insta win buttons and start the crying already. How typical

>

> Instant win? Do you even know what you're talking about? Conditions have clear, abundant and easily accessible counters, even under stunned conditions. Power does not. Really, please educate yourself before spouting such pretentious nonsense.

 

Interesting that you say power does not. One of my classes is a soulbeast that runs at the lowest with: 2.7k power, 75%+ crit chance, 225% crit damage... engaging a skill I can put the crit chance over 100% after stacks and put out a huge amount of damage. ok so you say.. yep that's what I'm talking about. But then I come across a warrior/spellbreaker.. I hit the skills and engage and watch as he takes almost zero damage, switch weapons and reset power etc to a degree and power him again and see his bar move a little bit. I've taken down guards in seconds, I've had thiefs sneak up behind me, and if they're not real good, watched them die fast... but warriors? These days it's like they have some sort of perma invulnerability... at least for the folks that really know how to play them.

 

Maybe it's what you're saying in that the counters aren't easily accessible? I'm not sure... but I know that regardless of my soulbeast, and my DH (which kills even faster), that I have serious problems against the new warrior meta. ;)

 

 

[Rennie.6750]

> @"Balthazzarr.1349" said:

> > @"Rennie.6750" said:

> > > @"kitten.5682" said:

> > > o look people are loosing their insta win buttons and start the crying already. How typical

> >

> > Instant win? Do you even know what you're talking about? Conditions have clear, abundant and easily accessible counters, even under stunned conditions. Power does not. Really, please educate yourself before spouting such pretentious nonsense.

>

> Interesting that you say power does not. One of my classes is a soulbeast that runs at the lowest with: 2.7k power, 75%+ crit chance, 225% crit damage... engaging a skill I can put the crit chance over 100% after stacks and put out a huge amount of damage. ok so you say.. yep that's what I'm talking about. But then I come across a warrior/spellbreaker.. I hit the skills and engage and watch as he takes almost zero damage, switch weapons and reset power etc to a degree and power him again and see his bar move a little bit. I've taken down guards in seconds, I've had thiefs sneak up behind me, and if they're not real good, watched them die fast... but warriors? These days it's like they have some sort of perma invulnerability... at least for the folks that really know how to play them.

>

> Maybe it's what you're saying in that the counters aren't easily accessible? I'm not sure... but I know that regardless of my soulbeast, and my DH (which kills even faster), that I have serious problems against the new warrior meta. ;)

>

>

 

Warriors are special, they have multiple complete damage immunities, which makes them insanely OP in WvW, especially since they're using that to spam winds of disenchantment. But it's not specific to power, these immunities also work on conditions. Your only chance against a warrior is not getting hit for 10s then you can start doing damage. Yes, I know, good luck with that.

[Choppy.4183]

> @"Rennie.6750" said:

> > @"Balthazzarr.1349" said:

> > > @"Rennie.6750" said:

> > > > @"kitten.5682" said:

> > > > o look people are loosing their insta win buttons and start the crying already. How typical

> > >

> > > Instant win? Do you even know what you're talking about? Conditions have clear, abundant and easily accessible counters, even under stunned conditions. Power does not. Really, please educate yourself before spouting such pretentious nonsense.

> >

> > Interesting that you say power does not. One of my classes is a soulbeast that runs at the lowest with: 2.7k power, 75%+ crit chance, 225% crit damage... engaging a skill I can put the crit chance over 100% after stacks and put out a huge amount of damage. ok so you say.. yep that's what I'm talking about. But then I come across a warrior/spellbreaker.. I hit the skills and engage and watch as he takes almost zero damage, switch weapons and reset power etc to a degree and power him again and see his bar move a little bit. I've taken down guards in seconds, I've had thiefs sneak up behind me, and if they're not real good, watched them die fast... but warriors? These days it's like they have some sort of perma invulnerability... at least for the folks that really know how to play them.

> >

> > Maybe it's what you're saying in that the counters aren't easily accessible? I'm not sure... but I know that regardless of my soulbeast, and my DH (which kills even faster), that I have serious problems against the new warrior meta. ;)

> >

> >

>

> Warriors are special, they have multiple complete damage immunities, which makes them insanely OP in WvW, especially since they're using that to spam winds of disenchantment. But it's not specific to power, these immunities also work on conditions. Your only chance against a warrior is not getting hit for 10s then you can start doing damage. Yes, I know, good luck with that.

 

Lol wut? No man, you can (and should) start damaging warriors from the beginning of the fight. Sounds like you either need to play a warrior or find a warrior friend to duel for a while into you figure out how to fight the most obvious class in the game.

[Rennie.6750]

> @"Choppy.4183" said:

> > @"Rennie.6750" said:

> > > @"Balthazzarr.1349" said:

> > > > @"Rennie.6750" said:

> > > > > @"kitten.5682" said:

> > > > > o look people are loosing their insta win buttons and start the crying already. How typical

> > > >

> > > > Instant win? Do you even know what you're talking about? Conditions have clear, abundant and easily accessible counters, even under stunned conditions. Power does not. Really, please educate yourself before spouting such pretentious nonsense.

> > >

> > > Interesting that you say power does not. One of my classes is a soulbeast that runs at the lowest with: 2.7k power, 75%+ crit chance, 225% crit damage... engaging a skill I can put the crit chance over 100% after stacks and put out a huge amount of damage. ok so you say.. yep that's what I'm talking about. But then I come across a warrior/spellbreaker.. I hit the skills and engage and watch as he takes almost zero damage, switch weapons and reset power etc to a degree and power him again and see his bar move a little bit. I've taken down guards in seconds, I've had thiefs sneak up behind me, and if they're not real good, watched them die fast... but warriors? These days it's like they have some sort of perma invulnerability... at least for the folks that really know how to play them.

> > >

> > > Maybe it's what you're saying in that the counters aren't easily accessible? I'm not sure... but I know that regardless of my soulbeast, and my DH (which kills even faster), that I have serious problems against the new warrior meta. ;)

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Warriors are special, they have multiple complete damage immunities, which makes them insanely OP in WvW, especially since they're using that to spam winds of disenchantment. But it's not specific to power, these immunities also work on conditions. Your only chance against a warrior is not getting hit for 10s then you can start doing damage. Yes, I know, good luck with that.

>

> Lol wut? No man, you can (and should) start damaging warriors from the beginning of the fight. Sounds like you either need to play a warrior or find a warrior friend to duel for a while into you figure out how to fight the most obvious class in the game.

 

Of course you should, I merely said you had to survive for 10s and then you can start playing instead of being a punching ball for the warrior.

[Choppy.4183]

> @"Rennie.6750" said:

> > @"Choppy.4183" said:

> > > @"Rennie.6750" said:

> > > > @"Balthazzarr.1349" said:

> > > > > @"Rennie.6750" said:

> > > > > > @"kitten.5682" said:

> > > > > > o look people are loosing their insta win buttons and start the crying already. How typical

> > > > >

> > > > > Instant win? Do you even know what you're talking about? Conditions have clear, abundant and easily accessible counters, even under stunned conditions. Power does not. Really, please educate yourself before spouting such pretentious nonsense.

> > > >

> > > > Interesting that you say power does not. One of my classes is a soulbeast that runs at the lowest with: 2.7k power, 75%+ crit chance, 225% crit damage... engaging a skill I can put the crit chance over 100% after stacks and put out a huge amount of damage. ok so you say.. yep that's what I'm talking about. But then I come across a warrior/spellbreaker.. I hit the skills and engage and watch as he takes almost zero damage, switch weapons and reset power etc to a degree and power him again and see his bar move a little bit. I've taken down guards in seconds, I've had thiefs sneak up behind me, and if they're not real good, watched them die fast... but warriors? These days it's like they have some sort of perma invulnerability... at least for the folks that really know how to play them.

> > > >

> > > > Maybe it's what you're saying in that the counters aren't easily accessible? I'm not sure... but I know that regardless of my soulbeast, and my DH (which kills even faster), that I have serious problems against the new warrior meta. ;)

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Warriors are special, they have multiple complete damage immunities, which makes them insanely OP in WvW, especially since they're using that to spam winds of disenchantment. But it's not specific to power, these immunities also work on conditions. Your only chance against a warrior is not getting hit for 10s then you can start doing damage. Yes, I know, good luck with that.

> >

> > Lol wut? No man, you can (and should) start damaging warriors from the beginning of the fight. Sounds like you either need to play a warrior or find a warrior friend to duel for a while into you figure out how to fight the most obvious class in the game.

>

> Of course you should, I merely said you had to survive for 10s and then you can start playing instead of being a punching ball for the warrior.

 

Which class do you mostly play?

[Choppy.4183]

> @"Balthazzarr.1349" said:

> > @"Rennie.6750" said:

> > > @"kitten.5682" said:

> > > o look people are loosing their insta win buttons and start the crying already. How typical

> >

> > Instant win? Do you even know what you're talking about? Conditions have clear, abundant and easily accessible counters, even under stunned conditions. Power does not. Really, please educate yourself before spouting such pretentious nonsense.

>

> Interesting that you say power does not. One of my classes is a soulbeast that runs at the lowest with: 2.7k power, 75%+ crit chance, 225% crit damage... engaging a skill I can put the crit chance over 100% after stacks and put out a huge amount of damage. ok so you say.. yep that's what I'm talking about. But then I come across a warrior/spellbreaker.. I hit the skills and engage and watch as he takes almost zero damage, switch weapons and reset power etc to a degree and power him again and see his bar move a little bit. I've taken down guards in seconds, I've had thiefs sneak up behind me, and if they're not real good, watched them die fast... but warriors? These days it's like they have some sort of perma invulnerability... at least for the folks that really know how to play them.

>

> Maybe it's what you're saying in that the counters aren't easily accessible? I'm not sure... but I know that regardless of my soulbeast, and my DH (which kills even faster), that I have serious problems against the new warrior meta. ;)

>

>

 

The build that you're playing is actually a reasonably good counter to power warriors, spellbreakers included.

 

Trait Unstoppable Union and merge with your pet when you see him use his shield. Otherwise, use your stealth and mobility to keep him at range as much as you can, and watch his defenses struggle to keep pace with your offenses. Use your PBS to force out his stun breaks as much as possible.

 

Druid probably has more tools to get the job done, but Soulbeast has enough.

 

The defenses the Spellbreaker has against you are Endure Pain and Defy Pain. It's basically your Signet of Stone. Then there's Shield Stance, when he can't attack you and you can defeat anyway as per above. Finally, Full Counter, which will block one hit per 12s, and being ranged with a pet, you're well equipped to never eat the damage from it.

 

Frankly, once you get it and understand how not to fight warriors, they'll be your play things unless *you choose* to fight them on their terms.