MassivelyOp placed GW2 at #6 for 2017!

[Healix.5819]

> @"Lord of the Fire.6870" said:

> I don't think with 11 mio players at the lunch you can call it dying (https://www.pcgamesn.com/Guild-Wars-2/Guild-Wars-2-Path-Of-Fire-Release-Infographic)

>

> I heard wow had a little more then 10 mio with the lunch of the last expansion.

 

That's the total accounts ever created. For comparison, WoW is over 150 million, with 8-12 million active.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

GW2 had the chance to shine right at the release. Anet can't expect to promote the game 5 years later when already no serious gaming reviewer cares about GW2.

 

Game is worth being main WoW competitor but failed with promotion and marketing after release and now is put aside to being a niche product from a niche genre till the end of its lifetime.

[Chickenooble.5014]

> @"Healix.5819" said:

> > @"Lord of the Fire.6870" said:

> > I don't think with 11 mio players at the lunch you can call it dying (https://www.pcgamesn.com/Guild-Wars-2/Guild-Wars-2-Path-Of-Fire-Release-Infographic)

> >

> > I heard wow had a little more then 10 mio with the lunch of the last expansion.

>

> That's the total accounts ever created. For comparison, WoW is over 150 million, with 8-12 million active.

Citation, please?

 

[FANY.6524]

> @"Arzurag.7506" said:

> > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > @Abelisk.4527, why is silly BDO above gw2???

> >

> > Problem with BDO is actually theres to much content and much to do in game, lots of mechanics...gw2 is a pretty but empty botle compared with it.

> > Combat in BDO is very action based,«, there 2 things i dont like there wich is the quest system is a bit boring and the alot of the mobs are just static... and way to stacked, but this is something that theres yet a decent mmo to inovate it.

> > In terms of content... its huge, and kinda does better than gw2, just to start gw2 guilds are nothign less that chat rooms, on BDO guild' drive the game areas, u even have guilds dedicated for merchant type of players.

> > The character creating menu is a beast itself! LOL

> >

> >

> > And it was a decent leap from older sandbox mmo's.

>

> Just due its action combat bdo deserves to be higher ranked than gw2

> Somehow BDO´s combat has tainted my view on other mmo´s combat.

> I just begin to hate tab-targeting and mandatory hot-bars.

 

BDO does have BEAUTIFUL combat. It's very fun and feels fluid. LOL, I say that...but I only played a Witch. Still, my favorite magic class I've ever played ever. I felt POWERFUL. No other game makes me feel like a powerful wizard like BDO.

 

HOWEVER... All the howevers... The grind is ridiculous. The lack of a real story is saddening. The PvE content is mostly not the kind of stuff I'm into (afk fishing, farming, trading, horse rearing, but no real story progression). The gear grind is abysmal, and I've never been a fan of "Hey, if you upgrade this thing you've spent the last month of your life working on, it might break and become irreparable!" Also, the community is horrid.

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

> @"FANY.6524" said:

> > @"Arzurag.7506" said:

> > > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > @Abelisk.4527, why is silly BDO above gw2???

> > >

> > > Problem with BDO is actually theres to much content and much to do in game, lots of mechanics...gw2 is a pretty but empty botle compared with it.

> > > Combat in BDO is very action based,«, there 2 things i dont like there wich is the quest system is a bit boring and the alot of the mobs are just static... and way to stacked, but this is something that theres yet a decent mmo to inovate it.

> > > In terms of content... its huge, and kinda does better than gw2, just to start gw2 guilds are nothign less that chat rooms, on BDO guild' drive the game areas, u even have guilds dedicated for merchant type of players.

> > > The character creating menu is a beast itself! LOL

> > >

> > >

> > > And it was a decent leap from older sandbox mmo's.

> >

> > Just due its action combat bdo deserves to be higher ranked than gw2

> > Somehow BDO´s combat has tainted my view on other mmo´s combat.

> > I just begin to hate tab-targeting and mandatory hot-bars.

>

> BDO does have BEAUTIFUL combat. It's very fun and feels fluid. LOL, I say that...but I only played a Witch. Still, my favorite magic class I've ever played ever. I felt POWERFUL. No other game makes me feel like a powerful wizard like BDO.

>

> HOWEVER... All the howevers... The grind is ridiculous. The lack of a real story is saddening. The PvE content is mostly not the kind of stuff I'm into (afk fishing, farming, trading, horse rearing, but no real story progression). The gear grind is abysmal, and I've never been a fan of "Hey, if you upgrade this thing you've spent the last month of your life working on, it might break and become irreparable!" Also, the community is horrid.

 

That sounds like all of the things that would keep me as far as possible from a game.

 

I recall someone I knew that played that game saying there's PvP right in the PvE area with battles happening everywhere too which is something I never want to see.

[Healix.5819]

> @"Chickenooble.5014" said:

> Citation, please?

 

For GW2? They've released an infographic with every release. 3.5 million accounts in 2013, 7 million accounts in 2015 and 11 million "players" in 2017. If that wasn't obvious enough, look at the quarterly reports. Here's a graph. If GW2 was actually gaining a substantial amount of active players, sales would be increasing, not continuing downwards as they have been since launch. Roughly estimating, HoT had around 500-700k sales during its first 2 quarters, which includes a year of pre-purchases. GW2 likely has around 1-2 million active players.

 

For WoW? 100 million accounts in 2014, 10.1 million active last year.

[FANY.6524]

> @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > @"FANY.6524" said:

> > > @"Arzurag.7506" said:

> > > > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > > @Abelisk.4527, why is silly BDO above gw2???

> > > >

> > > > Problem with BDO is actually theres to much content and much to do in game, lots of mechanics...gw2 is a pretty but empty botle compared with it.

> > > > Combat in BDO is very action based,«, there 2 things i dont like there wich is the quest system is a bit boring and the alot of the mobs are just static... and way to stacked, but this is something that theres yet a decent mmo to inovate it.

> > > > In terms of content... its huge, and kinda does better than gw2, just to start gw2 guilds are nothign less that chat rooms, on BDO guild' drive the game areas, u even have guilds dedicated for merchant type of players.

> > > > The character creating menu is a beast itself! LOL

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > And it was a decent leap from older sandbox mmo's.

> > >

> > > Just due its action combat bdo deserves to be higher ranked than gw2

> > > Somehow BDO´s combat has tainted my view on other mmo´s combat.

> > > I just begin to hate tab-targeting and mandatory hot-bars.

> >

> > BDO does have BEAUTIFUL combat. It's very fun and feels fluid. LOL, I say that...but I only played a Witch. Still, my favorite magic class I've ever played ever. I felt POWERFUL. No other game makes me feel like a powerful wizard like BDO.

> >

> > HOWEVER... All the howevers... The grind is ridiculous. The lack of a real story is saddening. The PvE content is mostly not the kind of stuff I'm into (afk fishing, farming, trading, horse rearing, but no real story progression). The gear grind is abysmal, and I've never been a fan of "Hey, if you upgrade this thing you've spent the last month of your life working on, it might break and become irreparable!" Also, the community is horrid.

>

> That sounds like all of the things that would keep me as far as possible from a game.

>

> I recall someone I knew that played that game saying there's PvP right in the PvE area with battles happening everywhere too which is something I never want to see.

 

I bought into the hype, and ended up only playing for a few months. :( The game is primarily PvP and the community is full of toxic punks who call any and everyone interested in PvE content "carebears". I originally interviewed with one of the top guilds and played with them during my duration, but even their "niceness" was tinged with toxicity toward anyone not apart of their in-group. They "understood" that people had real lives, but anyone who wanted to be competitive was expected to buy the $150 option for the head start + grind for the first 24hrs or more to reach 50.

 

The game has a soft cap at 50. Once you hit 50, you can do a quest that allows you to participate in PvP. Once you finish that quest, anyone who has also completed said quest can attack you. I once got attacked for farming an area that someone else wanted, and it didn't matter that I killed them the first time. They came back with friends, and this is a pretty common situation. If you don't want to complete that quest, you won't level up beyond 50 (and you want to as you become far more powerful with every level after that).

 

There isn't gear grind in the traditional sense. There are very few weapon and armor options (and they're all butt ugly for the Witch), but you pick up weapon and armor crystals (I forget what they're actually called) that you "upgrade" your pieces with. Your gear can break, and after a certain point you can't fix it. This was honestly what killed it for me... Lack of gear options (WHY SO FEW WHEN THE CHARACTER CREATOR WAS AMAZING!?) and the upgrade mechanics were eh. In spite of making changes for the Western audience (that was their excuse for taking so long to release it), it's still very much a Korean game through and through - expensive cash shop included.

 

I still install it and run around from time to time... That combat is something else.

[MadFable.1978]

I'm amazed bdo was on that list referring to health. That game has such a toxic community, I had to leave. Flip side Eso and gw2 has the most awesome communities.

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

> @"FANY.6524" said:

> > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > > @"FANY.6524" said:

> > > > @"Arzurag.7506" said:

> > > > > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > > > @Abelisk.4527, why is silly BDO above gw2???

> > > > >

> > > > > Problem with BDO is actually theres to much content and much to do in game, lots of mechanics...gw2 is a pretty but empty botle compared with it.

> > > > > Combat in BDO is very action based,«, there 2 things i dont like there wich is the quest system is a bit boring and the alot of the mobs are just static... and way to stacked, but this is something that theres yet a decent mmo to inovate it.

> > > > > In terms of content... its huge, and kinda does better than gw2, just to start gw2 guilds are nothign less that chat rooms, on BDO guild' drive the game areas, u even have guilds dedicated for merchant type of players.

> > > > > The character creating menu is a beast itself! LOL

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > And it was a decent leap from older sandbox mmo's.

> > > >

> > > > Just due its action combat bdo deserves to be higher ranked than gw2

> > > > Somehow BDO´s combat has tainted my view on other mmo´s combat.

> > > > I just begin to hate tab-targeting and mandatory hot-bars.

> > >

> > > BDO does have BEAUTIFUL combat. It's very fun and feels fluid. LOL, I say that...but I only played a Witch. Still, my favorite magic class I've ever played ever. I felt POWERFUL. No other game makes me feel like a powerful wizard like BDO.

> > >

> > > HOWEVER... All the howevers... The grind is ridiculous. The lack of a real story is saddening. The PvE content is mostly not the kind of stuff I'm into (afk fishing, farming, trading, horse rearing, but no real story progression). The gear grind is abysmal, and I've never been a fan of "Hey, if you upgrade this thing you've spent the last month of your life working on, it might break and become irreparable!" Also, the community is horrid.

> >

> > That sounds like all of the things that would keep me as far as possible from a game.

> >

> > I recall someone I knew that played that game saying there's PvP right in the PvE area with battles happening everywhere too which is something I never want to see.

>

> I bought into the hype, and ended up only playing for a few months. :( The game is primarily PvP and the community is full of toxic punks who call any and everyone interested in PvE content "carebears". I originally interviewed with one of the top guilds and played with them during my duration, but even their "niceness" was tinged with toxicity toward anyone not apart of their in-group. They "understood" that people had real lives, but anyone who wanted to be competitive was expected to buy the $150 option for the head start + grind for the first 24hrs or more to reach 50.

>

> The game has a soft cap at 50. Once you hit 50, you can do a quest that allows you to participate in PvP. Once you finish that quest, anyone who has also completed said quest can attack you. I once got attacked for farming an area that someone else wanted, and it didn't matter that I killed them the first time. They came back with friends, and this is a pretty common situation. If you don't want to complete that quest, you won't level up beyond 50 (and you want to as you become far more powerful with every level after that).

>

> There isn't gear grind in the traditional sense. There are very few weapon and armor options (and they're all butt ugly for the Witch), but you pick up weapon and armor crystals (I forget what they're actually called) that you "upgrade" your pieces with. Your gear can break, and after a certain point you can't fix it. This was honestly what killed it for me... Lack of gear options (WHY SO FEW WHEN THE CHARACTER CREATOR WAS AMAZING!?) and the upgrade mechanics were eh. In spite of making changes for the Western audience (that was their excuse for taking so long to release it), it's still very much a Korean game through and through - expensive cash shop included.

>

> I still install it and run around from time to time... That combat is something else.

 

So you're capped at 50 and then there's a quest holding your progression hostage that now anyone can attack you on site? Can't turn off that option, huh?

Also the whole coming back with friends would've made me quit on the spot.

As a whole, I just don't like the competitive community in online gaming because they are very toxic. If no one is as hardcore/serious/nasty like them, they become the most... okay I take that back. They're vicious before even that.

 

As for the weapons breaking thing, I've hated that with a passion even in single player games like Breath of the Wild. I would not like to go through getting gear just for it to break on me like that.

[Wandering Mist.2973]

I find it amusing that Elite:Dangerous is on this list, since last I checked you could only have around 30 players in the same instance without the servers crashing. I'd hardly call 30 people in 1 place "massively multiplayer", would you? As for the rest of the list, personally I would put Runescape at number 1 since WoW has had q couple of major dips in sub numbers over the years, and has really only recently picked itself back up.

[battledrone.8315]

> @"Healix.5819" said:

> > @"Chickenooble.5014" said:

> > Citation, please?

>

> For GW2? They've released an infographic with every release. 3.5 million accounts in 2013, 7 million accounts in 2015 and 11 million "players" in 2017. If that wasn't obvious enough, look at the quarterly reports. Here's a graph. If GW2 was actually gaining a substantial amount of active players, sales would be increasing, not continuing downwards as they have been since launch. Roughly estimating, HoT had around 500-700k sales during its first 2 quarters, which includes a year of pre-purchases. GW2 likely has around 1-2 million active players.

>

> For WoW? 100 million accounts in 2014, 10.1 million active last year.

 

yep, 1-2 mio players sounds right, and that would mean that theyre down to their last ½ mio paying customers

this is NOT healthy...this is bleeding

[Abelisk.4527]

> @"Healix.5819" said:

> > @"Chickenooble.5014" said:

> > Citation, please?

>

> For GW2? They've released an infographic with every release. 3.5 million accounts in 2013, 7 million accounts in 2015 and 11 million "players" in 2017. If that wasn't obvious enough, look at the quarterly reports. Here's a graph. If GW2 was actually gaining a substantial amount of active players, sales would be increasing, not continuing downwards as they have been since launch. Roughly estimating, HoT had around 500-700k sales during its first 2 quarters, which includes a year of pre-purchases. GW2 likely has around 1-2 million active players.

>

> For WoW? 100 million accounts in 2014, 10.1 million active last year.

 

That WoW citation isn't credible.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

Not surprised with Star Trek Online, but very surprised with Black Desert. Very . . . surprised.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> Not surprised with Star Trek Online, but very surprised with Black Desert. Very . . . surprised.

I'm not. The "health" of MMOs is at a glance determined by player counts and how much they play... BDO is a 24/7 stay-logged-on game you are forced to grind to compete. 1 week of "gameplay" in BDO is what, like 3 hours of GW2 lol?

[ProtoGunner.4953]

Pre-HoT-and-post-HoT content drought broke GW2 its neck. They had momentum, they had hype, even Angry Joe made an interview with Colin. Then there was a huge disappointment and the sheer fact that only 4 maps were there and nothing else for months with only the raid.

 

They lost momentum now and not one big site even reviewed PoF. They are not in the focus of the usual gamer anymore and no one cares. FFXIV made it right: lots of new content and they even have more players despite being a sub based game - that just speaks for good marketing. Anet made huge mistakes and they try to fix it now, but I think that's the place they are now. It's much better but it won't help the game anymore, but even with a smaller community it will exist for some years. I am pretty sure.

 

BTW I don't play FFXIV, I tried it though during vanilla.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"ProtoGunner.4953" said:

> Pre-HoT-and-post-HoT content drought broke GW2 its neck.

 

I think after Scarlet died the game started going downwards.

The curious increase of revenue at the start of 2015 was probably due to the announcement of the expansion. Q4 2014 was the lowest point for the game (before Heart of Thorns) and that included most of Season 2. Season 2 was a disappointment, the content drought after it was obviously a disappointment and the content drought after Heart of Thorns was also a disappointment. It's a bit sad really.

 

But Season 3, Path of Fire and then Season 4 seem to return to greatness, but the "damage" from so many months of nothing might've been too much already.

 

[Shirlias.8104]

6th place does count definitely nothing.

Beign below ESO, FF and BDO said everything.

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > Not surprised with Star Trek Online, but very surprised with Black Desert. Very . . . surprised.

> I'm not. The "health" of MMOs is at a glance determined by player counts and how much they play... BDO is a 24/7 stay-logged-on game you are forced to grind to compete. 1 week of "gameplay" in BDO is what, like 3 hours of GW2 lol?

 

I'm surprised then because I would assume that kind of grind would pull many away.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > > Not surprised with Star Trek Online, but very surprised with Black Desert. Very . . . surprised.

> > I'm not. The "health" of MMOs is at a glance determined by player counts and how much they play... BDO is a 24/7 stay-logged-on game you are forced to grind to compete. 1 week of "gameplay" in BDO is what, like 3 hours of GW2 lol?

>

> I'm surprised then because I would assume that kind of grind would pull many away.

Those special kind of no-lifers are more plentifull than you think.

 

[ProtoGunner.4953]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"ProtoGunner.4953" said:

> > Pre-HoT-and-post-HoT content drought broke GW2 its neck.

>

> I think after Scarlet died the game started going downwards.

> The curious increase of revenue at the start of 2015 was probably due to the announcement of the expansion. Q4 2014 was the lowest point for the game (before Heart of Thorns) and that included most of Season 2. Season 2 was a disappointment, the content drought after it was obviously a disappointment and the content drought after Heart of Thorns was also a disappointment. It's a bit sad really.

>

> But Season 3, Path of Fire and then Season 4 seem to return to greatness, but the "damage" from so many months of nothing might've been too much already.

>

 

True, I absolutely agree. I remember the first few years with their non-content. It was okay'ish but not for a dedicated gamer like me (at this point). There were just these huge open world things and the 3 dungeons of which two were removed and rebuilt into fractals. Nothing lasted which was a very bad idea.