People are grossly overestimating inc 12/12 changes

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

I think condi cleanses should prioritize to the one that's doing the most damage to me at the moment (20 bleed and 2 burn, clear the bleed, vs 2 bleed and 10 burn clear the burn).

[Jana.6831]

I can only speak for my thief and even there I lost track. I do remember that before June 2016 I've had no problems with condis whatsoever, except for condi engis with their crate elite before that was nerfed. I was able to get rid of all conditions if traited properly. After the June 2016 patch everything became selective. They undid some of that, so now it's okayish again, but the condis just do too much damage and that's been the case since June 2016. They then added more and more condis with HoT and probably PoF, but before that expansion I gave up - no idea what has changed.

Condis aren't the only problem and all of the problems have their root in the June 2016 patch - that was what broke the game. Everything else was more and more powercreep on top of an already broken game. And now all of it is that entangeled that I have no hope that anet will find back to balance again.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

Let’s all be real here, with Anet’s track record on ”balance” and fixing issues being as “phenomenal” as it is the core issues of what is needed to fix/balance condis won’t happen, and people are just hyping themselves up, so just sit back and watch the train wreck unfold, and maybe just maybe there is a slight chance they might pull it off.

[BassHunteR.7246]

> @"BlaqueFyre.5678" said:

> Let’s all be real here, with Anet’s track record on ”balance” and fixing issues being as “phenomenal” as it is the core issues of what is needed to fix/balance condis won’t happen, and people are just hyping themselves up, so just sit back and watch the train wreck unfold, and maybe just maybe there is a slight chance they might pull it off.

 

There is no slight chance. This train already derailed long ago!

[Justine.6351]

When I'm wrong I'm wrong. Feels good to be wrong this time ;-)

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

> @"Justine.6351" said:

> When I'm wrong I'm wrong. Feels good to be wrong this time ;-)

 

Really? Patch was pretty shit

[Juidodin.5829]

patch is just another smoke screen, nothing has changed at all, didn't expect anything else since anet already proved to be clueless when it comes to pvp.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Justine.6351" said:

> When I'm wrong I'm wrong. Feels good to be wrong this time ;-)

 

Indeed, i would not mind to be wrong all the times :\

[Cerby.1069]

> @"Justine.6351" said:

> Seeing alot of "hype" for Tuesday condi "nerfs". Just going to thow this out there, don't expect the moon and the stars. I'm guessing less than 15 skill/trait changes total. In short, nothing is going to significantly change the amount of cover trash conditions bogging people down.

 

I think the idea is solid. I just wish they were a bit more 'selective' in how they decided what should have larger duration and what should be short duration. Like my gunflame does a 10 second burn now lol.....I'm not condi specced here and its 10 seconds!??!? I mean you killed the once in a blue moon condi rifle warrior build right there. If they hada been selective here and not touched its original 3 second duration.....condi rifle would still be niche but at least usable. I mean whats the point in putting such low ticking damage only conditions in weapon sets that are clearly power only now? To keep your enemies incombat longer? Hopefully it actually applies to downs now and keeps them from healing themselves.....i hate that how it never seems to apply and stop their healing even when i apply it while they are downed.

 

And necro had those 20- 25 SECOND bleeed/weakness application things.....I don't even wanna think about the idea of those having been extended, not sure if they were or not. I mean those would be stuff you either leave the same or you actually decrease the duration and up the damage a bit. I think like the 10-20 second mark in terms of condition application time is max to aim for here.

 

I think its cool that its more of an attrition idea now. So you have more time to react to the conditions on you. REsistance got nerfed all over so we have less uptime of that, but its working better now. So I mean it gives a place for condi clears now......but idk about you guys but I have limited space for condi clears in my build and can generally only take something like shake it off which is still only 2 condition clears lol....give me 3!

[mulzi.8273]

> @"Justine.6351" said:

> When I'm wrong I'm wrong. Feels good to be wrong this time ;-)

 

Not seeing where you are wrong. Can you point it out? Condi Mesmer was actually buffed (both confusion stacks and duration increased). Looking between the lines, Scourge was acutally buffed: they took 1 stack away from each of the condis, and doubled the duration, which lasts until their cooldowns. So now they drop 7 condis instantly on you, you clear 6 (if you have 3 utilily condi clears that clear 2 condis each) and they drop 7 more on you that last twice as long. AND they buffed barrier, so now they can soak even more damage now to be able to dump the condis on you.

 

Nothing's change, except perhaps it is worse. On paper, looks like they are doing something, but in realty its the same old same old. It is painfully obvious this is a PvE update, as condi duration only really matters when npcs cannot cleanse it.

 

what this patch affects are the condi classes that no one complained about: warrior, guard, ranger, Rev etc. The classes that don't have reliable cover condi spam. Those specs were nerfed. The real problem, the condi spam classes like mesmer and scourge condi, were actually buffed. The _real_ issue, at least in WvW, was not condi burst due to stacks from a single class, it was due to: (1) too many stacked condi classes aoe'ing and dumping a collectively on people at once and (2) a couple of classes dumping so many condi's on you instantly, and then reapplying too quickly so cleanses cannot keep up. Neither of these were addressed. This shows a complete and utter disconnect in how balancing is done.

 

 

[RodOfDeath.5247]

> @"Cerby.1069" said:

> > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > Seeing alot of "hype" for Tuesday condi "nerfs". Just going to thow this out there, don't expect the moon and the stars. I'm guessing less than 15 skill/trait changes total. In short, nothing is going to significantly change the amount of cover trash conditions bogging people down.

>

> I think the idea is solid. I just wish they were a bit more 'selective' in how they decided what should have larger duration and what should be short duration. Like my gunflame does a 10 second burn now lol.....I'm not condi specced here and its 10 seconds!??!? I mean you killed the once in a blue moon condi rifle warrior build right there. If they hada been selective here and not touched its original 3 second duration.....condi rifle would still be niche but at least usable. I mean whats the point in putting such low ticking damage only conditions in weapon sets that are clearly power only now? To keep your enemies incombat longer? Hopefully it actually applies to downs now and keeps them from healing themselves.....i hate that how it never seems to apply and stop their healing even when i apply it while they are downed.

>

> And necro had those 20- 25 SECOND bleeed/weakness application things.....I don't even wanna think about the idea of those having been extended, not sure if they were or not. I mean those would be stuff you either leave the same or you actually decrease the duration and up the damage a bit. I think like the 10-20 second mark in terms of condition application time is max to aim for here.

>

> I think its cool that its more of an attrition idea now. So you have more time to react to the conditions on you. REsistance got nerfed all over so we have less uptime of that, but its working better now. So I mean it gives a place for condi clears now......but idk about you guys but I have limited space for condi clears in my build and can generally only take something like shake it off which is still only 2 condition clears lol....give me 3!

 

I feel like the whole combat system revolves around condi cleanse these days. I understand it is a part of pvp/wvw world, but nearly every encounter?

[hunkamania.7561]

meh, fought a scourge and it's still pretty aids.

[Cerby.1069]

> @"Vermillion.4061" said:

> Enchantment collapse untouched so bubble is still cancer. \o/

 

I dont get why they are so friggin hugeeeeeee domes. Lower the radius a little...jesus. You can pretty much have a squad of 5 spell breakers whose job it is, is to blitz like those tank god ele used to AND erect a matrix of domes making the entire area a projectile-free/booonlesss nightmare.

 

 

I don't even wanan talk about fighting in smc lol....I feel like the idea of balancing fights in inner smc was long since abandoned from all forms of logical discussion.

[LetoII.3782]

> @"Red Haired Savage.5430" said:

> I think condi cleanses should prioritize to the one that's doing the most damage to me at the moment (20 bleed and 2 burn, clear the bleed, vs 2 bleed and 10 burn clear the burn).

 

An immobilize can kill just as fast

[Artaz.3819]

> @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > @"Red Haired Savage.5430" said:

> > I think condi cleanses should prioritize to the one that's doing the most damage to me at the moment (20 bleed and 2 burn, clear the bleed, vs 2 bleed and 10 burn clear the burn).

>

> An immobilize can kill just as fast

 

Immobilize should be low priority though as it still allows that condi recipient to do everything but dodge.

 

I think the primary change is there needs to be both (a) damage removal condi removal and (b) movement condi removal classifications and then nearly all condi cleanses (utilities versions) affects both. And in general, all classes should more often be able to share (AoE) their condi cleanses similar to how condi can often be spammed AoE. Certain AoE condi cleanse needs to have its 5 target cap increased to 10 (like certain PoF classes have to apply condis) as a counter-balance as well...certain Elites comes to mind.

[OriOri.8724]

> @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > When I'm wrong I'm wrong. Feels good to be wrong this time ;-)

>

> Really? Patch was pretty kitten

 

Consider though that, even if you disagree with it, the amount of changes we got was more than some quarterly balance patches we've had in the past 2 years, and its an off cycle patch. In that light, its a good change (faster pace).

 

Also, it did its job of reducing condi burst on most classes. A few changes were questionable, some were just downright bad decisions and there is no defending them. But overall I think the patch was good.

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

Now if we could just get these "mini" patches more often we'd be in great shape I think they'd get allot of their balance issues sorted out faster.

[SkyShroud.2865]

> @"Red Haired Savage.5430" said:

> Now if we could just get these "mini" patches more often we'd be in great shape I think they'd get allot of their balance issues sorted out faster.

 

That I agree. More frequency allow one to narrow down and fine tune things. Putting every nonsense together will make it difficult to identify the real mastermind.