Is it possible for a balance patch to be more worthless?

[Orpheal.8263]

if there is one thing that i could possibly be disappointed by this balance patch in regard of the thief.. that it touched to little..

 

it has the obvious few condi changes to reduce just some condi burstiness for the exchasnge of logner durations, a bug fix, some deadeye focused buffs for pve onlyand a little quality of life change for daredevils.. rofls ...

 

its as always, as if Anet simply is way too scared to give the thief some more impactful changes, which makes this class truly much more fun to play and useful in all game modes, away from being just stupid +1 pets changing them to become again fearful roamers, which can also provide useful group support - more than just only a watered down stealth, that was once some years ago the speciality of the thieves and which is by now easily surpassed by other classes to the point, that there is no need to take thieves anymore, because there exist now classes, which can give same as good, if not even better stealth to a group, like Scrappers with their stupid gyro that does that, while providing at the same time also far better group support, than what Thieves gan give people with lousy Venoms, which are already after like 2-3 hits over and provide no real great support, unless you play maybe a condi build, that can make soem kind of effetive usage from the little condi burst that shared venoms give you for one moment...

 

The thief Class has so much unused potential to become more fun to play, especially know with Elite Specs being there.. adding the deadeye was a pure mistake imo however.

A spec liek that should never exist, especially not with such crap mechanics, like this kneel.. but thats a different topic now.. a Bladedancer Spec for PoF would have fitted a thousand times better to Elona..but people were so obsessed with their silly rifles .. sigh, that or Saboteurs with Torches, or Rogues with Longbows, which woudl have been the much better long range weapon choice for thieves to get, that fits as a silent weapon also better to the design of the thief as descendant of the GW1 assassin - yet even an Assasin Spec woudl have fit better for Elona/PoF as the oldest true origin of the assassin comes from hashashin, an old egyptian word with games like Assassins Creed showign th real origins of the Assasins with Ninjas being basically the asian form of the Assassin... so basicalyl the class would have had to be called in factions Ninja, but Assassin was and is stil lthe better known trend word which peopel associate with this kind of gameplay the class provided in GW1 of which GW2s Thief has received only a reduced form of, to fitt better into the more european design style with that ANet started for GW2 and Tyria/Kryta, where you have Thieves, and not Assassins.

However, enough of this offtopic

 

---

 

What anet did was basicalyl a beginning to finally reduce the burstiness of cindi builds to fix the catastrophe they created 2 and a half years ago on 23rd June of 2015, before they released HoT with this destrous patch, which brought all this massive powercreep from Condition builds into the game, without fixing first the outdated combat systems for this massive increase of damage condition builds from this moment on were able to deal way too easily in a way too short time, which became after addign the two expansions later from expansion to expansion only worser and worser.

So in fact, its nice to see, that ANet seems to have understood finally, that condtions are long already completely out of contriol and that reducign their burstiness has to be for now the right decision.

 

However, just reducing only th burstiness of conditions and making them therefore last much longer isnt a perfect solution, it will postpone the true problem on,y, that Naet needs soon to completely overwork their whole conditioon and boon system, that they need to reduce in fact the amount of boons and conditions slightly again.

So more E-Specs there add, so more nrew conditions and boons/effects they add to make those added Specs uniqeu, so more will become all the permanwently ignored and outdated combat system mechanics for that ANet had never until now any time to overlook and adapt them, because they were 5 years long always only focused on changing skills and traits mostly, so more will become balancing this game harder and harder - more of a problem, which won't be anymore so easily to solve, so longer these outfdated thigns don't get reworked in a flow with the other sweeping changes Anet does to the game, so that the systems and mechanics of the combat system stay in harmony with each other.

 

 

[Zedek.8932]

Reads: "Buff on a uselss weapon set".

Thinks: "So, they buff something "useless" (to make it more attactive) and you complain about that? Whaaaaa?

 

Stopped reading. *Petting my Hunter*

 

Excelsior.

[Slowmelt.8547]

I use and like Pressure Striking, thank you verymuch.

 

This fix to on-interrupts is something I've been asking for since defiance was changed to bars, and I'm very pleased with it.

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Zacchary.6183" said:

> > @"Kallist.5917" said:

> > Honestly. They buff stuff and your not happy? Is it because you dont use these things? Is it because they didnt give you a button that says you win? Or maybe its because they didnt buff your meta play build? Im not sure what you want, they are finally working on giving a thief more options that you are mad about it.. Hybrid DE is in a far better place today than it was yesterday, and P/D is a great set for focused damage on a venom build, they helped both of those today with this. And considering we were all fully expecting a nerf to Condition, this is all welcomed news. Also, that Cursed bullet can hit for 20K. I would love to see you doing that with your auto attack.

>

> None of the buffs make it easy to faceroll. That's probably why. No other explanation makes sense.

 

Nah, most of these buffs just don't matter, that's probably why.

I mean hey, they're buffs, that's good. But I REALLY don't understand the point of... well, probably most of them.

 

-Weakening charge is indeed a good QoL change. Or it WOULD BE, except for the fact that the skill really wasn't (and still isn't?) worth using anyways.

-**Cursed bullet buff -ok. Actually ok, but the skill is still kind of weird to use and awkward to even land imo.**

-Spotter's shot buff for pve is just straight up useless. The skill is useless in pve -ok, it's a buff, why would anyone complain... But as I said above -what exactly is the point of this buff? I don't see it.

-**TRB dmg buff -solid.** I get why it's pve only, because the whole DE class will be hard to properly balance to make it not terrible and not simply overpowered. **But it's a cool pve buff.**

-Death's retreat cost buff is just... well, useless. It's simply not worth using in pve anyways, but at least on rare occasions when you missclick it when you're not kneeling, you'll have 1 ini more. Yay! Yay? ...really, again, I don't see the point of this change (for pve).

-DJ cost reduction for pve, when in the same patch the dmg of TRB is buffed also seems like it won't see a lot of use. Maybe some. Maybe not. Kind of meh, but w/e.

-Caltrops change, jesus kitten, give me a break. What. Was. The. Point?? I honestly don't know. It changes nothing.

 

-Ok, here I was really wondering what the hell "The Ripper" is. Underwhatever skill. Hoooly moly, let me ask once again: WHAT'S THE POINT? :D

-**Shadow strike change... hmm.. meh? Doesn't change a lot? If literally anything? But hey, a slight buff, ok.**

-Pressure striking. I don't know. Someone who actually uses it can comment on this one.

-Sundering strikes/shade -IMO it wasn't a good trait. Now it's worse. Why. Why is this change even here?

-**and bugfix is a bugfix, yay!**

 

 

Overally that's how I see these changes (also I didn't read the patch notes so I just believe in the first post of this thread :p), I really don't see any reason to be ecstatic about these buffs (in most cases: """""""buffs""""""") or changes. Am I mad? Nah, why would I be. But if someone will go ahead and explain to me **what's the point** of most of these changes (other then "see? We DID buff a thief! HA!"), then I'm all ears.

And just a note: I REALLY don't think "not being able to faceroll" has anything to do with what I wrote above.

[Zacchary.6183]

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > @"Zacchary.6183" said:

> > > @"Kallist.5917" said:

> > > Honestly. They buff stuff and your not happy? Is it because you dont use these things? Is it because they didnt give you a button that says you win? Or maybe its because they didnt buff your meta play build? Im not sure what you want, they are finally working on giving a thief more options that you are mad about it.. Hybrid DE is in a far better place today than it was yesterday, and P/D is a great set for focused damage on a venom build, they helped both of those today with this. And considering we were all fully expecting a nerf to Condition, this is all welcomed news. Also, that Cursed bullet can hit for 20K. I would love to see you doing that with your auto attack.

> >

> > None of the buffs make it easy to faceroll. That's probably why. No other explanation makes sense.

>

> Nah, most of these buffs just don't matter, that's probably why.

> I mean hey, they're buffs, that's good. But I REALLY don't understand the point of... well, probably most of them.

>

> -Weakening charge is indeed a good QoL change. Or it WOULD BE, except for the fact that the skill really wasn't (and still isn't?) worth using anyways.

> -**Cursed bullet buff -ok. Actually ok, but the skill is still kind of weird to use and awkward to even land imo.**

> -Spotter's shot buff for pve is just straight up useless. The skill is useless in pve -ok, it's a buff, why would anyone complain... But as I said above -what exactly is the point of this buff? I don't see it.

> -**TRB dmg buff -solid.** I get why it's pve only, because the whole DE class will be hard to properly balance to make it not terrible and not simply overpowered. **But it's a cool pve buff.**

> -Death's retreat cost buff is just... well, useless. It's simply not worth using in pve anyways, but at least on rare occasions when you missclick it when you're not kneeling, you'll have 1 ini more. Yay! Yay? ...really, again, I don't see the point of this change (for pve).

> -DJ cost reduction for pve, when in the same patch the dmg of TRB is buffed also seems like it won't see a lot of use. Maybe some. Maybe not. Kind of meh, but w/e.

> -Caltrops change, jesus kitten, give me a break. What. Was. The. Point?? I honestly don't know. It changes nothing.

>

> -Ok, here I was really wondering what the hell "The Ripper" is. Underwhatever skill. Hoooly moly, let me ask once again: WHAT'S THE POINT? :D

> -**Shadow strike change... hmm.. meh? Doesn't change a lot? If literally anything? But hey, a slight buff, ok.**

> -Pressure striking. I don't know. Someone who actually uses it can comment on this one.

> -Sundering strikes/shade -IMO it wasn't a good trait. Now it's worse. Why. Why is this change even here?

> -**and bugfix is a bugfix, yay!**

>

>

> Overally that's how I see these changes (also I didn't read the patch notes so I just believe in the first post of this thread :p), I really don't see any reason to be ecstatic about these buffs (in most cases: """""""buffs""""""") or changes. Am I mad? Nah, why would I be. But if someone will go ahead and explain to me **what's the point** of most of these changes (other then "see? We DID buff a thief! HA!"), then I'm all ears.

> And just a note: I REALLY don't think "not being able to faceroll" has anything to do with what I wrote above.

 

Like someone else said in this thread the whole point of the condition changes was to make conditions less bursty while not nerfing the damage they could put out. Every profession got the same treatment more or less. But throwing a tantrum about buffs is more pointless and annoying than the buffs themselves.

 

Its like Anet makes a change. Then suddenly:

 

[Zlater.6789]

> @"Zacchary.6183" said:

> > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > @"Zacchary.6183" said:

> > > > @"Kallist.5917" said:

> > > > Honestly. They buff stuff and your not happy? Is it because you dont use these things? Is it because they didnt give you a button that says you win? Or maybe its because they didnt buff your meta play build? Im not sure what you want, they are finally working on giving a thief more options that you are mad about it.. Hybrid DE is in a far better place today than it was yesterday, and P/D is a great set for focused damage on a venom build, they helped both of those today with this. And considering we were all fully expecting a nerf to Condition, this is all welcomed news. Also, that Cursed bullet can hit for 20K. I would love to see you doing that with your auto attack.

> > >

> > > None of the buffs make it easy to faceroll. That's probably why. No other explanation makes sense.

> >

> > Nah, most of these buffs just don't matter, that's probably why.

> > I mean hey, they're buffs, that's good. But I REALLY don't understand the point of... well, probably most of them.

> >

> > -Weakening charge is indeed a good QoL change. Or it WOULD BE, except for the fact that the skill really wasn't (and still isn't?) worth using anyways.

> > -**Cursed bullet buff -ok. Actually ok, but the skill is still kind of weird to use and awkward to even land imo.**

> > -Spotter's shot buff for pve is just straight up useless. The skill is useless in pve -ok, it's a buff, why would anyone complain... But as I said above -what exactly is the point of this buff? I don't see it.

> > -**TRB dmg buff -solid.** I get why it's pve only, because the whole DE class will be hard to properly balance to make it not terrible and not simply overpowered. **But it's a cool pve buff.**

> > -Death's retreat cost buff is just... well, useless. It's simply not worth using in pve anyways, but at least on rare occasions when you missclick it when you're not kneeling, you'll have 1 ini more. Yay! Yay? ...really, again, I don't see the point of this change (for pve).

> > -DJ cost reduction for pve, when in the same patch the dmg of TRB is buffed also seems like it won't see a lot of use. Maybe some. Maybe not. Kind of meh, but w/e.

> > -Caltrops change, jesus kitten, give me a break. What. Was. The. Point?? I honestly don't know. It changes nothing.

> >

> > -Ok, here I was really wondering what the hell "The Ripper" is. Underwhatever skill. Hoooly moly, let me ask once again: WHAT'S THE POINT? :D

> > -**Shadow strike change... hmm.. meh? Doesn't change a lot? If literally anything? But hey, a slight buff, ok.**

> > -Pressure striking. I don't know. Someone who actually uses it can comment on this one.

> > -Sundering strikes/shade -IMO it wasn't a good trait. Now it's worse. Why. Why is this change even here?

> > -**and bugfix is a bugfix, yay!**

> >

> >

> > Overally that's how I see these changes (also I didn't read the patch notes so I just believe in the first post of this thread :p), I really don't see any reason to be ecstatic about these buffs (in most cases: """""""buffs""""""") or changes. Am I mad? Nah, why would I be. But if someone will go ahead and explain to me **what's the point** of most of these changes (other then "see? We DID buff a thief! HA!"), then I'm all ears.

> > And just a note: I REALLY don't think "not being able to faceroll" has anything to do with what I wrote above.

>

> Like someone else said in this thread the whole point of the condition changes was to make conditions less bursty while not nerfing the damage they could put out. Every profession got the same treatment more or less. But throwing a tantrum about buffs is more pointless and annoying than the buffs themselves.

>

> Its like Anet makes a change. Then suddenly:

>

 

So you're saying that those changes are meant to stop condi thief from being so bursty, I only see 1 change, that's right only 1 that will make it less bursty. And it's so small it's insignificant. Can you please explain every other change aside for the Caltrops change.

[kash.9213]

> @"Sobx.1758" said:

> -**Cursed bullet buff -ok. Actually ok, but the skill is still kind of weird to use and awkward to even land imo.**

 

Cursed Bullet sort of times well in a sequence if you have stealth on steal to end on a Deaths Judgment or something big. For how weird it is might be what makes it the shot that seems to connect most for me, maybe they figure that weird looking infusion effect thing was lost on it's curve or something.

 

[Loboling.5293]

Patch notes:

-Shatterstone now has a new visual.

-Failing to land steal give the player a new skill called "wind". This skill cannot be activated, but has the following tool tip: "You've stolen the wind, but it doesn't do anything.". Cooldown remains unchanged.

-Shadowtrap has been temporarily disabled from the game.

-Revenant removed from PvP.

 

There, even less impacting changes...

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

> @"Zlater.6789" said:

> > @"Zacchary.6183" said:

> > > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > > @"Zacchary.6183" said:

> > > > > @"Kallist.5917" said:

> > > > > Honestly. They buff stuff and your not happy? Is it because you dont use these things? Is it because they didnt give you a button that says you win? Or maybe its because they didnt buff your meta play build? Im not sure what you want, they are finally working on giving a thief more options that you are mad about it.. Hybrid DE is in a far better place today than it was yesterday, and P/D is a great set for focused damage on a venom build, they helped both of those today with this. And considering we were all fully expecting a nerf to Condition, this is all welcomed news. Also, that Cursed bullet can hit for 20K. I would love to see you doing that with your auto attack.

> > > >

> > > > None of the buffs make it easy to faceroll. That's probably why. No other explanation makes sense.

> > >

> > > Nah, most of these buffs just don't matter, that's probably why.

> > > I mean hey, they're buffs, that's good. But I REALLY don't understand the point of... well, probably most of them.

> > >

> > > -Weakening charge is indeed a good QoL change. Or it WOULD BE, except for the fact that the skill really wasn't (and still isn't?) worth using anyways.

> > > -**Cursed bullet buff -ok. Actually ok, but the skill is still kind of weird to use and awkward to even land imo.**

> > > -Spotter's shot buff for pve is just straight up useless. The skill is useless in pve -ok, it's a buff, why would anyone complain... But as I said above -what exactly is the point of this buff? I don't see it.

> > > -**TRB dmg buff -solid.** I get why it's pve only, because the whole DE class will be hard to properly balance to make it not terrible and not simply overpowered. **But it's a cool pve buff.**

> > > -Death's retreat cost buff is just... well, useless. It's simply not worth using in pve anyways, but at least on rare occasions when you missclick it when you're not kneeling, you'll have 1 ini more. Yay! Yay? ...really, again, I don't see the point of this change (for pve).

> > > -DJ cost reduction for pve, when in the same patch the dmg of TRB is buffed also seems like it won't see a lot of use. Maybe some. Maybe not. Kind of meh, but w/e.

> > > -Caltrops change, jesus kitten, give me a break. What. Was. The. Point?? I honestly don't know. It changes nothing.

> > >

> > > -Ok, here I was really wondering what the hell "The Ripper" is. Underwhatever skill. Hoooly moly, let me ask once again: WHAT'S THE POINT? :D

> > > -**Shadow strike change... hmm.. meh? Doesn't change a lot? If literally anything? But hey, a slight buff, ok.**

> > > -Pressure striking. I don't know. Someone who actually uses it can comment on this one.

> > > -Sundering strikes/shade -IMO it wasn't a good trait. Now it's worse. Why. Why is this change even here?

> > > -**and bugfix is a bugfix, yay!**

> > >

> > >

> > > Overally that's how I see these changes (also I didn't read the patch notes so I just believe in the first post of this thread :p), I really don't see any reason to be ecstatic about these buffs (in most cases: """""""buffs""""""") or changes. Am I mad? Nah, why would I be. But if someone will go ahead and explain to me **what's the point** of most of these changes (other then "see? We DID buff a thief! HA!"), then I'm all ears.

> > > And just a note: I REALLY don't think "not being able to faceroll" has anything to do with what I wrote above.

> >

> > Like someone else said in this thread the whole point of the condition changes was to make conditions less bursty while not nerfing the damage they could put out. Every profession got the same treatment more or less. But throwing a tantrum about buffs is more pointless and annoying than the buffs themselves.

> >

> > Its like Anet makes a change. Then suddenly:

> >

>

> So you're saying that those changes are meant to stop condi thief from being so bursty, I only see 1 change, that's right only 1 that will make it less bursty. And it's so small it's insignificant. Can you please explain every other change aside for the Caltrops change.

 

You deal the same damage, but spread out across a longer duration. Most of the condi that professions uses applies them with short duration but multiple stacks. Thief was a major abuser of this because we don't have cool downs on our weapon skills, and our venom share is pretty insane.This patch reduces the DPS of Condi FOR ALL PROFESSIONS, but their effective damage PER affliction remains the same if not greater.

[Zlater.6789]

> @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > @"Zlater.6789" said:

> > > @"Zacchary.6183" said:

> > > > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > > > @"Zacchary.6183" said:

> > > > > > @"Kallist.5917" said:

> > > > > > Honestly. They buff stuff and your not happy? Is it because you dont use these things? Is it because they didnt give you a button that says you win? Or maybe its because they didnt buff your meta play build? Im not sure what you want, they are finally working on giving a thief more options that you are mad about it.. Hybrid DE is in a far better place today than it was yesterday, and P/D is a great set for focused damage on a venom build, they helped both of those today with this. And considering we were all fully expecting a nerf to Condition, this is all welcomed news. Also, that Cursed bullet can hit for 20K. I would love to see you doing that with your auto attack.

> > > > >

> > > > > None of the buffs make it easy to faceroll. That's probably why. No other explanation makes sense.

> > > >

> > > > Nah, most of these buffs just don't matter, that's probably why.

> > > > I mean hey, they're buffs, that's good. But I REALLY don't understand the point of... well, probably most of them.

> > > >

> > > > -Weakening charge is indeed a good QoL change. Or it WOULD BE, except for the fact that the skill really wasn't (and still isn't?) worth using anyways.

> > > > -**Cursed bullet buff -ok. Actually ok, but the skill is still kind of weird to use and awkward to even land imo.**

> > > > -Spotter's shot buff for pve is just straight up useless. The skill is useless in pve -ok, it's a buff, why would anyone complain... But as I said above -what exactly is the point of this buff? I don't see it.

> > > > -**TRB dmg buff -solid.** I get why it's pve only, because the whole DE class will be hard to properly balance to make it not terrible and not simply overpowered. **But it's a cool pve buff.**

> > > > -Death's retreat cost buff is just... well, useless. It's simply not worth using in pve anyways, but at least on rare occasions when you missclick it when you're not kneeling, you'll have 1 ini more. Yay! Yay? ...really, again, I don't see the point of this change (for pve).

> > > > -DJ cost reduction for pve, when in the same patch the dmg of TRB is buffed also seems like it won't see a lot of use. Maybe some. Maybe not. Kind of meh, but w/e.

> > > > -Caltrops change, jesus kitten, give me a break. What. Was. The. Point?? I honestly don't know. It changes nothing.

> > > >

> > > > -Ok, here I was really wondering what the hell "The Ripper" is. Underwhatever skill. Hoooly moly, let me ask once again: WHAT'S THE POINT? :D

> > > > -**Shadow strike change... hmm.. meh? Doesn't change a lot? If literally anything? But hey, a slight buff, ok.**

> > > > -Pressure striking. I don't know. Someone who actually uses it can comment on this one.

> > > > -Sundering strikes/shade -IMO it wasn't a good trait. Now it's worse. Why. Why is this change even here?

> > > > -**and bugfix is a bugfix, yay!**

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Overally that's how I see these changes (also I didn't read the patch notes so I just believe in the first post of this thread :p), I really don't see any reason to be ecstatic about these buffs (in most cases: """""""buffs""""""") or changes. Am I mad? Nah, why would I be. But if someone will go ahead and explain to me **what's the point** of most of these changes (other then "see? We DID buff a thief! HA!"), then I'm all ears.

> > > > And just a note: I REALLY don't think "not being able to faceroll" has anything to do with what I wrote above.

> > >

> > > Like someone else said in this thread the whole point of the condition changes was to make conditions less bursty while not nerfing the damage they could put out. Every profession got the same treatment more or less. But throwing a tantrum about buffs is more pointless and annoying than the buffs themselves.

> > >

> > > Its like Anet makes a change. Then suddenly:

> > >

> >

> > So you're saying that those changes are meant to stop condi thief from being so bursty, I only see 1 change, that's right only 1 that will make it less bursty. And it's so small it's insignificant. Can you please explain every other change aside for the Caltrops change.

>

> You deal the same damage, but spread out across a longer duration. Most of the condi that professions uses applies them with short duration but multiple stacks. Thief was a major abuser of this because we don't have cool downs on our weapon skills, and our venom share is pretty insane.This patch reduces the DPS of Condi FOR ALL PROFESSIONS, but their effective damage PER affliction remains the same if not greater.

 

You have to be trolling right?

You said thief was a major abuser of condi burst, that was because of venom share like you said. And I'm adding to that by saying it was from death blossom and to a much greater extent lotus training.

 

SHOW ME those nerfs to condi thief in the patch notes, the only thing I see that resembles that is a change to the Ripper which is an underwater skill lol. Everything else that made condi thief so bursty remains untouched.

 

The developers told you one thing and then did another thing. But regardless you still believe that those magical venom share changes and "condi application from no CD weapon skills" exist, but aren't on the patch notes or on the tooltips. GG

[Zoltar MacRoth.7146]

> @"Zlater.6789" said:

> These are the changes

>

> Weakening Charge: This skill now moves the thief toward a selected target, but will not allow them to travel through the target.

> **small QoL fix for a build that is almost totally unviable** _if they just put this and none of the other stuff it would have been the same._

 

Aww... I like that build. :( You're mean. :p jk

[Zlater.6789]

> @"Loboling.5293" said:

> Patch notes:

> -Shatterstone now has a new visual.

> -Failing to land steal give the player a new skill called "wind". This skill cannot be activated, but has the following tool tip: "You've stolen the wind, but it doesn't do anything.". Cooldown remains unchanged.

> -Shadowtrap has been temporarily disabled from the game.

> -Revenant removed from PvP.

>

> There, even less impacting changes...

 

Lol how about

-Deadeye has been renamed lesser herald

 

> @"Zoltar MacRoth.7146" said:

> > @"Zlater.6789" said:

> > These are the changes

> >

> > Weakening Charge: This skill now moves the thief toward a selected target, but will not allow them to travel through the target.

> > **small QoL fix for a build that is almost totally unviable** _if they just put this and none of the other stuff it would have been the same._

>

> Aww... I like that build. :( You're mean. :p jk

 

I like it too, but it's not so good anymore. For open world it's still fun though :D

[Kadin.2356]

I guess no1 noticed you can't short hop with heartseeker anymore?

[Cirrion.8951]

> @"Zlater.6789" said:

> > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > > @"Zlater.6789" said:

> > > > @"Zacchary.6183" said:

> > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > > > > @"Zacchary.6183" said:

> > > > > > > @"Kallist.5917" said:

> > > > > > > Honestly. They buff stuff and your not happy? Is it because you dont use these things? Is it because they didnt give you a button that says you win? Or maybe its because they didnt buff your meta play build? Im not sure what you want, they are finally working on giving a thief more options that you are mad about it.. Hybrid DE is in a far better place today than it was yesterday, and P/D is a great set for focused damage on a venom build, they helped both of those today with this. And considering we were all fully expecting a nerf to Condition, this is all welcomed news. Also, that Cursed bullet can hit for 20K. I would love to see you doing that with your auto attack.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > None of the buffs make it easy to faceroll. That's probably why. No other explanation makes sense.

> > > > >

> > > > > Nah, most of these buffs just don't matter, that's probably why.

> > > > > I mean hey, they're buffs, that's good. But I REALLY don't understand the point of... well, probably most of them.

> > > > >

> > > > > -Weakening charge is indeed a good QoL change. Or it WOULD BE, except for the fact that the skill really wasn't (and still isn't?) worth using anyways.

> > > > > -**Cursed bullet buff -ok. Actually ok, but the skill is still kind of weird to use and awkward to even land imo.**

> > > > > -Spotter's shot buff for pve is just straight up useless. The skill is useless in pve -ok, it's a buff, why would anyone complain... But as I said above -what exactly is the point of this buff? I don't see it.

> > > > > -**TRB dmg buff -solid.** I get why it's pve only, because the whole DE class will be hard to properly balance to make it not terrible and not simply overpowered. **But it's a cool pve buff.**

> > > > > -Death's retreat cost buff is just... well, useless. It's simply not worth using in pve anyways, but at least on rare occasions when you missclick it when you're not kneeling, you'll have 1 ini more. Yay! Yay? ...really, again, I don't see the point of this change (for pve).

> > > > > -DJ cost reduction for pve, when in the same patch the dmg of TRB is buffed also seems like it won't see a lot of use. Maybe some. Maybe not. Kind of meh, but w/e.

> > > > > -Caltrops change, jesus kitten, give me a break. What. Was. The. Point?? I honestly don't know. It changes nothing.

> > > > >

> > > > > -Ok, here I was really wondering what the hell "The Ripper" is. Underwhatever skill. Hoooly moly, let me ask once again: WHAT'S THE POINT? :D

> > > > > -**Shadow strike change... hmm.. meh? Doesn't change a lot? If literally anything? But hey, a slight buff, ok.**

> > > > > -Pressure striking. I don't know. Someone who actually uses it can comment on this one.

> > > > > -Sundering strikes/shade -IMO it wasn't a good trait. Now it's worse. Why. Why is this change even here?

> > > > > -**and bugfix is a bugfix, yay!**

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Overally that's how I see these changes (also I didn't read the patch notes so I just believe in the first post of this thread :p), I really don't see any reason to be ecstatic about these buffs (in most cases: """""""buffs""""""") or changes. Am I mad? Nah, why would I be. But if someone will go ahead and explain to me **what's the point** of most of these changes (other then "see? We DID buff a thief! HA!"), then I'm all ears.

> > > > > And just a note: I REALLY don't think "not being able to faceroll" has anything to do with what I wrote above.

> > > >

> > > > Like someone else said in this thread the whole point of the condition changes was to make conditions less bursty while not nerfing the damage they could put out. Every profession got the same treatment more or less. But throwing a tantrum about buffs is more pointless and annoying than the buffs themselves.

> > > >

> > > > Its like Anet makes a change. Then suddenly:

> > > >

> > >

> > > So you're saying that those changes are meant to stop condi thief from being so bursty, I only see 1 change, that's right only 1 that will make it less bursty. And it's so small it's insignificant. Can you please explain every other change aside for the Caltrops change.

> >

> > You deal the same damage, but spread out across a longer duration. Most of the condi that professions uses applies them with short duration but multiple stacks. Thief was a major abuser of this because we don't have cool downs on our weapon skills, and our venom share is pretty insane.This patch reduces the DPS of Condi FOR ALL PROFESSIONS, but their effective damage PER affliction remains the same if not greater.

>

> You have to be trolling right?

> You said thief was a major abuser of condi burst, that was because of venom share like you said. And I'm adding to that by saying it was from death blossom and to a much greater extent lotus training.

>

> SHOW ME those nerfs to condi thief in the patch notes, the only thing I see that resembles that is a change to the Ripper which is an underwater skill lol. Everything else that made condi thief so bursty remains untouched.

>

> The developers told you one thing and then did another thing. But regardless you still believe that those magical venom share changes and "condi application from no CD weapon skills" exist, but aren't on the patch notes or on the tooltips. GG

 

You keep using that word 'bursty'. I do not think it means what you think it means.

[Zlater.6789]

> @"Cirrion.8951" said:

> > @"Zlater.6789" said:

> > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > > > @"Zlater.6789" said:

> > > > > @"Zacchary.6183" said:

> > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > > > > > @"Zacchary.6183" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Kallist.5917" said:

> > > > > > > > Honestly. They buff stuff and your not happy? Is it because you dont use these things? Is it because they didnt give you a button that says you win? Or maybe its because they didnt buff your meta play build? Im not sure what you want, they are finally working on giving a thief more options that you are mad about it.. Hybrid DE is in a far better place today than it was yesterday, and P/D is a great set for focused damage on a venom build, they helped both of those today with this. And considering we were all fully expecting a nerf to Condition, this is all welcomed news. Also, that Cursed bullet can hit for 20K. I would love to see you doing that with your auto attack.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > None of the buffs make it easy to faceroll. That's probably why. No other explanation makes sense.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Nah, most of these buffs just don't matter, that's probably why.

> > > > > > I mean hey, they're buffs, that's good. But I REALLY don't understand the point of... well, probably most of them.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > -Weakening charge is indeed a good QoL change. Or it WOULD BE, except for the fact that the skill really wasn't (and still isn't?) worth using anyways.

> > > > > > -**Cursed bullet buff -ok. Actually ok, but the skill is still kind of weird to use and awkward to even land imo.**

> > > > > > -Spotter's shot buff for pve is just straight up useless. The skill is useless in pve -ok, it's a buff, why would anyone complain... But as I said above -what exactly is the point of this buff? I don't see it.

> > > > > > -**TRB dmg buff -solid.** I get why it's pve only, because the whole DE class will be hard to properly balance to make it not terrible and not simply overpowered. **But it's a cool pve buff.**

> > > > > > -Death's retreat cost buff is just... well, useless. It's simply not worth using in pve anyways, but at least on rare occasions when you missclick it when you're not kneeling, you'll have 1 ini more. Yay! Yay? ...really, again, I don't see the point of this change (for pve).

> > > > > > -DJ cost reduction for pve, when in the same patch the dmg of TRB is buffed also seems like it won't see a lot of use. Maybe some. Maybe not. Kind of meh, but w/e.

> > > > > > -Caltrops change, jesus kitten, give me a break. What. Was. The. Point?? I honestly don't know. It changes nothing.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > -Ok, here I was really wondering what the hell "The Ripper" is. Underwhatever skill. Hoooly moly, let me ask once again: WHAT'S THE POINT? :D

> > > > > > -**Shadow strike change... hmm.. meh? Doesn't change a lot? If literally anything? But hey, a slight buff, ok.**

> > > > > > -Pressure striking. I don't know. Someone who actually uses it can comment on this one.

> > > > > > -Sundering strikes/shade -IMO it wasn't a good trait. Now it's worse. Why. Why is this change even here?

> > > > > > -**and bugfix is a bugfix, yay!**

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Overally that's how I see these changes (also I didn't read the patch notes so I just believe in the first post of this thread :p), I really don't see any reason to be ecstatic about these buffs (in most cases: """""""buffs""""""") or changes. Am I mad? Nah, why would I be. But if someone will go ahead and explain to me **what's the point** of most of these changes (other then "see? We DID buff a thief! HA!"), then I'm all ears.

> > > > > > And just a note: I REALLY don't think "not being able to faceroll" has anything to do with what I wrote above.

> > > > >

> > > > > Like someone else said in this thread the whole point of the condition changes was to make conditions less bursty while not nerfing the damage they could put out. Every profession got the same treatment more or less. But throwing a tantrum about buffs is more pointless and annoying than the buffs themselves.

> > > > >

> > > > > Its like Anet makes a change. Then suddenly:

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > So you're saying that those changes are meant to stop condi thief from being so bursty, I only see 1 change, that's right only 1 that will make it less bursty. And it's so small it's insignificant. Can you please explain every other change aside for the Caltrops change.

> > >

> > > You deal the same damage, but spread out across a longer duration. Most of the condi that professions uses applies them with short duration but multiple stacks. Thief was a major abuser of this because we don't have cool downs on our weapon skills, and our venom share is pretty insane.This patch reduces the DPS of Condi FOR ALL PROFESSIONS, but their effective damage PER affliction remains the same if not greater.

> >

> > You have to be trolling right?

> > You said thief was a major abuser of condi burst, that was because of venom share like you said. And I'm adding to that by saying it was from death blossom and to a much greater extent lotus training.

> >

> > SHOW ME those nerfs to condi thief in the patch notes, the only thing I see that resembles that is a change to the Ripper which is an underwater skill lol. Everything else that made condi thief so bursty remains untouched.

> >

> > The developers told you one thing and then did another thing. But regardless you still believe that those magical venom share changes and "condi application from no CD weapon skills" exist, but aren't on the patch notes or on the tooltips. GG

>

> You keep using that word 'bursty'. I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

Show me a nerf to a bursty condi skill that condi thieves use if you doubt me, copy paste from patch notes pls.

[saerni.2584]

Except they did nerf lotus training just not in this patch. DB was never an issue damage wise, people just hated the evade aspect of it.

 

Spider Venom was used for burst but only actually becomes strong when shared. On a per player basis the spike damage isn’t that strong compared to other classes ability to quickly stack conditions.

 

There’s a difference between personal burst—more than the class will be able to sustain long term—and “burst damage” which actually kills the target before they can respond. All classes/builds have personal burst because if they rapidly hit all their skills they will apply more of their damage up front. But fewer builds have true burst—where that spike of damage overwhelms their opponent instantly.

 

 

[Cirrion.8951]

> @"Zlater.6789" said:

> > @"Cirrion.8951" said:

> > > @"Zlater.6789" said:

> > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > > > > @"Zlater.6789" said:

> > > > > > @"Zacchary.6183" said:

> > > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Zacchary.6183" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Kallist.5917" said:

> > > > > > > > > Honestly. They buff stuff and your not happy? Is it because you dont use these things? Is it because they didnt give you a button that says you win? Or maybe its because they didnt buff your meta play build? Im not sure what you want, they are finally working on giving a thief more options that you are mad about it.. Hybrid DE is in a far better place today than it was yesterday, and P/D is a great set for focused damage on a venom build, they helped both of those today with this. And considering we were all fully expecting a nerf to Condition, this is all welcomed news. Also, that Cursed bullet can hit for 20K. I would love to see you doing that with your auto attack.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > None of the buffs make it easy to faceroll. That's probably why. No other explanation makes sense.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Nah, most of these buffs just don't matter, that's probably why.

> > > > > > > I mean hey, they're buffs, that's good. But I REALLY don't understand the point of... well, probably most of them.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > -Weakening charge is indeed a good QoL change. Or it WOULD BE, except for the fact that the skill really wasn't (and still isn't?) worth using anyways.

> > > > > > > -**Cursed bullet buff -ok. Actually ok, but the skill is still kind of weird to use and awkward to even land imo.**

> > > > > > > -Spotter's shot buff for pve is just straight up useless. The skill is useless in pve -ok, it's a buff, why would anyone complain... But as I said above -what exactly is the point of this buff? I don't see it.

> > > > > > > -**TRB dmg buff -solid.** I get why it's pve only, because the whole DE class will be hard to properly balance to make it not terrible and not simply overpowered. **But it's a cool pve buff.**

> > > > > > > -Death's retreat cost buff is just... well, useless. It's simply not worth using in pve anyways, but at least on rare occasions when you missclick it when you're not kneeling, you'll have 1 ini more. Yay! Yay? ...really, again, I don't see the point of this change (for pve).

> > > > > > > -DJ cost reduction for pve, when in the same patch the dmg of TRB is buffed also seems like it won't see a lot of use. Maybe some. Maybe not. Kind of meh, but w/e.

> > > > > > > -Caltrops change, jesus kitten, give me a break. What. Was. The. Point?? I honestly don't know. It changes nothing.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > -Ok, here I was really wondering what the hell "The Ripper" is. Underwhatever skill. Hoooly moly, let me ask once again: WHAT'S THE POINT? :D

> > > > > > > -**Shadow strike change... hmm.. meh? Doesn't change a lot? If literally anything? But hey, a slight buff, ok.**

> > > > > > > -Pressure striking. I don't know. Someone who actually uses it can comment on this one.

> > > > > > > -Sundering strikes/shade -IMO it wasn't a good trait. Now it's worse. Why. Why is this change even here?

> > > > > > > -**and bugfix is a bugfix, yay!**

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Overally that's how I see these changes (also I didn't read the patch notes so I just believe in the first post of this thread :p), I really don't see any reason to be ecstatic about these buffs (in most cases: """""""buffs""""""") or changes. Am I mad? Nah, why would I be. But if someone will go ahead and explain to me **what's the point** of most of these changes (other then "see? We DID buff a thief! HA!"), then I'm all ears.

> > > > > > > And just a note: I REALLY don't think "not being able to faceroll" has anything to do with what I wrote above.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Like someone else said in this thread the whole point of the condition changes was to make conditions less bursty while not nerfing the damage they could put out. Every profession got the same treatment more or less. But throwing a tantrum about buffs is more pointless and annoying than the buffs themselves.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Its like Anet makes a change. Then suddenly:

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > So you're saying that those changes are meant to stop condi thief from being so bursty, I only see 1 change, that's right only 1 that will make it less bursty. And it's so small it's insignificant. Can you please explain every other change aside for the Caltrops change.

> > > >

> > > > You deal the same damage, but spread out across a longer duration. Most of the condi that professions uses applies them with short duration but multiple stacks. Thief was a major abuser of this because we don't have cool downs on our weapon skills, and our venom share is pretty insane.This patch reduces the DPS of Condi FOR ALL PROFESSIONS, but their effective damage PER affliction remains the same if not greater.

> > >

> > > You have to be trolling right?

> > > You said thief was a major abuser of condi burst, that was because of venom share like you said. And I'm adding to that by saying it was from death blossom and to a much greater extent lotus training.

> > >

> > > SHOW ME those nerfs to condi thief in the patch notes, the only thing I see that resembles that is a change to the Ripper which is an underwater skill lol. Everything else that made condi thief so bursty remains untouched.

> > >

> > > The developers told you one thing and then did another thing. But regardless you still believe that those magical venom share changes and "condi application from no CD weapon skills" exist, but aren't on the patch notes or on the tooltips. GG

> >

> > You keep using that word 'bursty'. I do not think it means what you think it means.

>

> Show me a nerf to a bursty condi skill that condi thieves use if you doubt me, copy paste from patch notes pls.

 

There wasn't one, because condi thieves don't have any bursty skills that needed nerfing. Again, it comes down to the meaning of the word 'bursty' and your misunderstanding of that.

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Cirrion.8951" said:

> > @"Zlater.6789" said:

> > > @"Cirrion.8951" said:

> > > > @"Zlater.6789" said:

> > > > > @"Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497" said:

> > > > > > @"Zlater.6789" said:

> > > > > > > @"Zacchary.6183" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Zacchary.6183" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Kallist.5917" said:

> > > > > > > > > > Honestly. They buff stuff and your not happy? Is it because you dont use these things? Is it because they didnt give you a button that says you win? Or maybe its because they didnt buff your meta play build? Im not sure what you want, they are finally working on giving a thief more options that you are mad about it.. Hybrid DE is in a far better place today than it was yesterday, and P/D is a great set for focused damage on a venom build, they helped both of those today with this. And considering we were all fully expecting a nerf to Condition, this is all welcomed news. Also, that Cursed bullet can hit for 20K. I would love to see you doing that with your auto attack.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > None of the buffs make it easy to faceroll. That's probably why. No other explanation makes sense.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Nah, most of these buffs just don't matter, that's probably why.

> > > > > > > > I mean hey, they're buffs, that's good. But I REALLY don't understand the point of... well, probably most of them.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > -Weakening charge is indeed a good QoL change. Or it WOULD BE, except for the fact that the skill really wasn't (and still isn't?) worth using anyways.

> > > > > > > > -**Cursed bullet buff -ok. Actually ok, but the skill is still kind of weird to use and awkward to even land imo.**

> > > > > > > > -Spotter's shot buff for pve is just straight up useless. The skill is useless in pve -ok, it's a buff, why would anyone complain... But as I said above -what exactly is the point of this buff? I don't see it.

> > > > > > > > -**TRB dmg buff -solid.** I get why it's pve only, because the whole DE class will be hard to properly balance to make it not terrible and not simply overpowered. **But it's a cool pve buff.**

> > > > > > > > -Death's retreat cost buff is just... well, useless. It's simply not worth using in pve anyways, but at least on rare occasions when you missclick it when you're not kneeling, you'll have 1 ini more. Yay! Yay? ...really, again, I don't see the point of this change (for pve).

> > > > > > > > -DJ cost reduction for pve, when in the same patch the dmg of TRB is buffed also seems like it won't see a lot of use. Maybe some. Maybe not. Kind of meh, but w/e.

> > > > > > > > -Caltrops change, jesus kitten, give me a break. What. Was. The. Point?? I honestly don't know. It changes nothing.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > -Ok, here I was really wondering what the hell "The Ripper" is. Underwhatever skill. Hoooly moly, let me ask once again: WHAT'S THE POINT? :D

> > > > > > > > -**Shadow strike change... hmm.. meh? Doesn't change a lot? If literally anything? But hey, a slight buff, ok.**

> > > > > > > > -Pressure striking. I don't know. Someone who actually uses it can comment on this one.

> > > > > > > > -Sundering strikes/shade -IMO it wasn't a good trait. Now it's worse. Why. Why is this change even here?

> > > > > > > > -**and bugfix is a bugfix, yay!**

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Overally that's how I see these changes (also I didn't read the patch notes so I just believe in the first post of this thread :p), I really don't see any reason to be ecstatic about these buffs (in most cases: """""""buffs""""""") or changes. Am I mad? Nah, why would I be. But if someone will go ahead and explain to me **what's the point** of most of these changes (other then "see? We DID buff a thief! HA!"), then I'm all ears.

> > > > > > > > And just a note: I REALLY don't think "not being able to faceroll" has anything to do with what I wrote above.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Like someone else said in this thread the whole point of the condition changes was to make conditions less bursty while not nerfing the damage they could put out. Every profession got the same treatment more or less. But throwing a tantrum about buffs is more pointless and annoying than the buffs themselves.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Its like Anet makes a change. Then suddenly:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So you're saying that those changes are meant to stop condi thief from being so bursty, I only see 1 change, that's right only 1 that will make it less bursty. And it's so small it's insignificant. Can you please explain every other change aside for the Caltrops change.

> > > > >

> > > > > You deal the same damage, but spread out across a longer duration. Most of the condi that professions uses applies them with short duration but multiple stacks. Thief was a major abuser of this because we don't have cool downs on our weapon skills, and our venom share is pretty insane.This patch reduces the DPS of Condi FOR ALL PROFESSIONS, but their effective damage PER affliction remains the same if not greater.

> > > >

> > > > You have to be trolling right?

> > > > You said thief was a major abuser of condi burst, that was because of venom share like you said. And I'm adding to that by saying it was from death blossom and to a much greater extent lotus training.

> > > >

> > > > SHOW ME those nerfs to condi thief in the patch notes, the only thing I see that resembles that is a change to the Ripper which is an underwater skill lol. Everything else that made condi thief so bursty remains untouched.

> > > >

> > > > The developers told you one thing and then did another thing. But regardless you still believe that those magical venom share changes and "condi application from no CD weapon skills" exist, but aren't on the patch notes or on the tooltips. GG

> > >

> > > You keep using that word 'bursty'. I do not think it means what you think it means.

> >

> > Show me a nerf to a bursty condi skill that condi thieves use if you doubt me, copy paste from patch notes pls.

>

> There wasn't one, because condi thieves don't have any bursty skills that needed nerfing. Again, it comes down to the meaning of the word 'bursty' and your misunderstanding of that.

 

Isn't that exactly his point? So... what's yours? :D

Did you understand the whole comment chain you answered to?

[Burnfall.9573]

Is It Possible For The Thief Community To Ask For A Complete Class Overhaul/Re-Design?

 

[Cirrion.8951]

That's the opposite of his point =) . My friend here DOES think that condi thieves deal burst damage, which is an untrue statement. He's specifically complaining about Lotus Training and Death Blossom as being bursty skills. Both of those skills take 10-20 seconds to apply their full damage potential and need to be repeatedly applied over time to deal significant damage. That is the exact opposite of a bursty skill.

 

Condi thieves didn't get nerfed because their skills already worked the way that ANet wants condi skills to work. THAT is my point.

[Sobx.1758]

> @"Cirrion.8951" said:

> That's the opposite of his point =) . My friend here DOES think that condi thieves deal burst damage, which is an untrue statement. He's specifically complaining about Lotus Training and Death Blossom as being bursty skills. Both of those skills take 10-20 seconds to apply their full damage potential and need to be repeatedly applied over time to deal significant damage. That is the exact opposite of a bursty skill.

>

> Condi thieves didn't get nerfed because their skills already worked the way that ANet wants condi skills to work. THAT is my point.

 

And with that in mind start from the first 3-4 posts that are in the quote/s. I was literally asking "**what was the purpose of these changes**". I got the answer which claimed: "**it was introduced to make conditions less bursty**". Then first Zlater comment in this whole comment chain "**So you're saying that those changes are meant to stop condi thief from being so bursty, I only see 1 change, that's right only 1 that will make it less bursty. And it's so small it's insignificant. Can you please explain every other change aside for the Caltrops change**".

 

You focused on the definition of "bursty" so hard, that you forgot about the main kitten point of this comment chain (and probably whole thread): What was the point of these changes??

 

So as I asked before: Did you understand the whole comment chain you answered to?

The answer is: no, you didn't. :)

[saerni.2584]

The patch didn’t nerf thief because we were already performing roughly as intended. That is, our burst damage potential wasn’t significant enough to warrant a reduction.

 

That is what he’s responding to.

[Zlater.6789]

> @"Cirrion.8951" said:

> That's the opposite of his point =) . My friend here DOES think that condi thieves deal burst damage, which is an untrue statement. He's specifically complaining about Lotus Training and Death Blossom as being bursty skills. Both of those skills take 10-20 seconds to apply their full damage potential and need to be repeatedly applied over time to deal significant damage. That is the exact opposite of a bursty skill.

>

> Condi thieves didn't get nerfed because their skills already worked the way that ANet wants condi skills to work. THAT is my point.

 

I'm actually not that concerned about the burstiness of condi thief specifically. I am concerned however about anet not addressing the problems the community has with condi thief despite them saying this is what they are trying to do. There are so many meaningful changes they could have made that would have made the game more healthy, but instead of doing something about it they left it in the too hard pile.

One of those things would have very clearly been condi thief (as an example), both the d/d and s/d variants in both PvP and PvE game modes. One of the biggest abusers in both is lotus training, which pumps out a minimum 3 bleeds and 3 torment on each dodge roll, not including traits and combo finishers.

[saerni.2584]

> @"Zlater.6789" said:

> > @"Cirrion.8951" said:

> > That's the opposite of his point =) . My friend here DOES think that condi thieves deal burst damage, which is an untrue statement. He's specifically complaining about Lotus Training and Death Blossom as being bursty skills. Both of those skills take 10-20 seconds to apply their full damage potential and need to be repeatedly applied over time to deal significant damage. That is the exact opposite of a bursty skill.

> >

> > Condi thieves didn't get nerfed because their skills already worked the way that ANet wants condi skills to work. THAT is my point.

>

> I'm actually not that concerned about the burstiness of condi thief specifically. I am concerned however about anet not addressing the problems the community has with condi thief despite them saying this is what they are trying to do. There are so many meaningful changes they could have made that would have made the game more healthy, but instead of doing something about it they left it in the too hard pile.

> One of those things would have very clearly been condi thief (as an example), both the d/d and s/d variants in both PvP and PvE game modes. One of the biggest abusers in both is lotus training, which pumps out a minimum 3 bleeds and 3 torment on each dodge roll, not including traits and combo finishers.

 

They recently did nerf that in a previous patch. The complaints stopped after that patch. Not sure why you are unhappy and why you think condi thief needed more nerfs.

[Cirrion.8951]

> @"saerni.2584" said:

> The patch didn’t nerf thief because we were already performing roughly as intended. That is, our burst damage potential wasn’t significant enough to warrant a reduction.

>

> That is what he’s responding to.

 

This guy gets it.