Mirage isn't as OP as you think.

[choovanski.5462]

> @"Daishi.6027" said:

> > @"choovanski.5462" said:

> > > @"viquing.8254" said:

> > > I mean in solo ranked Q.

> > > If it's the best duelist in combinaison with his mobility and portal the first 20 top player should be mesmers.

> >

> > team fight builds carry better than duelists dude....

> >

> > mirage is not a far point troll 3 people build like druid, and it's not a teamfighter. it's a duelist. sure that means it's not the best carry, **but that doesn't mean it's not broken.**

>

> I have to disagree.

> If it has it's role, but does not dominate the actual game type or solo carry the game to victory then it's fine. By that example Druid would be a lot more "broken"

>

> I have been vocal about my dislike of conquest, and this type of balance philosophy in the past for this exact reason. However it has been made abundantly clear that the game has no intention to 1v1 balance, and that conquest is all that really matters for PvP.

>

> So if we are staying with conquest and never evolving away from it, then no. Mirage and every strong 1v1 spec of past seasons, or metas (prior to HoTs) are not broken.

 

ah, i guess you’re one of those people who thought pre nerf spellbreaker was fine

 

because you obviously don’t have an issue with builds that have winning 1v1 matchups vs all meta builds, & little to no counterplay (plus a 30+ confusion stack burst)

 

woaky....

[Daishi.6027]

@"choovanski.5462"

 

Actually spellbreaker being able to hold points and it’s prowess was not okay. Overly strong sustain with damage in conquest will always be a problem.

 

However you misunderstand me. I’m totally up for changes, but we need to change what our standards for change is based on.

 

If 5v5 conquest is how we are balancing then a duelist who can’t reliably stall 1v3 isn’t going to be as OP especially in ranked where most you can do is duo.

 

I’d absolutely be fine with 1v1 - 3v3 balance, but that clearly is not a design choice the game is going, and compared to other metas, mirage fills a role that many others have had and was deemed acceptable.

[Flauvious.6195]

> @"Caro.2730" said:

> > @"Flauvious.6195" said:

> > You're comparing mirage to all pof specs, which are almost all ridiculous and have powercreeped out basically everything besides druid and dragonhunter (and herald i guess, but only because renegade is trash incarnate). Mirage will be fine if nerfed... so long as the rest of the op kitten gets nerfed too.

>

> Oh that's true. I wish all Hot elite specializations would be on par with the PoF ones. I felt nostalgic and played few matches with chrono few days ago. Regret it.

>

>

 

I don't, I wish Pof specs would be on par with Hot ones; basically dropped down to their level. I thought elite specs were just supposed to be alternate ways to play a class, instead they are mandatory due to being just far more powerful than base classes.

[Xstein.2187]

Mirage wan't hit by the condi crunch this patch. It will probably be hit next patch. Confusion on every shatter, Torment on every shatter, extra multi confusion stacks with blinding dissipation and Ineptitude (still at two stacks), Riddle of sand applying two instead of one stacks more of confusion, Jaunt still applying and extra 3 stacks. IMO, this is the first step that needs to be addressed. However, the devs also hinted at larger condi changes as well. So, perhaps they are waiting for that to be ready and hit first.

[Burnfall.9573]

@"Xstein.2187" said:

> Mirage wan't hit by the condi crunch this patch. It will probably be hit next patch. Confusion on every shatter, Torment on every shatter, extra multi confusion stacks with blinding dissipation and Ineptitude (still at two stacks), Riddle of sand applying two instead of one stacks more of confusion, Jaunt still applying and extra 3 stacks. IMO, this is the first step that needs to be addressed. However, the devs also hinted at larger condi changes as well. So, perhaps they are waiting for that to be ready and hit first.

 

' **See It For What It Is, Not What They Want You To See** '

 

Confusion Mesmer- Published Sep 17, 2012 by Mesmer player

 

[Vasdamas Anklast.1607]

I suspect it is even worse than I think it is.

 

 

Ok just imagine: Stunbreak + evade with free casting while evading casts and then you also got stealth with 3 blinks (or 4).

[Ferus.3165]

> @"Jinks.2057" said:

> you are losing b/c you aren't good enough to win

>

> the people beating you aren't winning because they are good it's because you are not good enough

>

> 1v1 vs a mirage isn't about how skilled both opponents are but how competent the mirage player is. The non mirage players skill is irrelevant in this situation

 

exactly this. so much this. that is why mirage is kitten and always will be as long as the mechanics stay like they are now in pvp/wvw.

 

You can't win vs a competent mirage player. They've got so much stunbreak/instant teleports/invisibility/immunity to dmg that they have an answer for every situation. It doesn't matter what the non mirage player does, because the mirage has a counter to it everytime. It is far worse than dodge spam daredevil.

[OriOri.8724]

> @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> @"Xstein.2187" said:

> > Mirage wan't hit by the condi crunch this patch. It will probably be hit next patch. Confusion on every shatter, Torment on every shatter, extra multi confusion stacks with blinding dissipation and Ineptitude (still at two stacks), Riddle of sand applying two instead of one stacks more of confusion, Jaunt still applying and extra 3 stacks. IMO, this is the first step that needs to be addressed. However, the devs also hinted at larger condi changes as well. So, perhaps they are waiting for that to be ready and hit first.

>

> ' **See It For What It Is, Not What They Want You To See** '

>

> Confusion Mesmer- Published Sep 17, 2012 by Mesmer player

>

>

 

Why you think a video that is more than 5 years old is at all relevant to the state of the game today I will never understand.

[Burnfall.9573]

> @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > @"Xstein.2187" said:

> > > Mirage wan't hit by the condi crunch this patch. It will probably be hit next patch. Confusion on every shatter, Torment on every shatter, extra multi confusion stacks with blinding dissipation and Ineptitude (still at two stacks), Riddle of sand applying two instead of one stacks more of confusion, Jaunt still applying and extra 3 stacks. IMO, this is the first step that needs to be addressed. However, the devs also hinted at larger condi changes as well. So, perhaps they are waiting for that to be ready and hit first.

> >

> > ' **See It For What It Is, Not What They Want You To See** '

> >

> > Confusion Mesmer- Published Sep 17, 2012 by Mesmer player

> >

> >

>

> Why you think a video that is more than 5 years old is at all relevant to the state of the game today I will never understand.

 

History shows that Anet has not learned anything of the past.

 

 

[Kirin.7306]

Eh? You mena its even more OP than I thought?

 

Even with toughness and vitality gear there is no escape from death from this BS spec.

[apharma.3741]

> @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> @"Xstein.2187" said:

> > Mirage wan't hit by the condi crunch this patch. It will probably be hit next patch. Confusion on every shatter, Torment on every shatter, extra multi confusion stacks with blinding dissipation and Ineptitude (still at two stacks), Riddle of sand applying two instead of one stacks more of confusion, Jaunt still applying and extra 3 stacks. IMO, this is the first step that needs to be addressed. However, the devs also hinted at larger condi changes as well. So, perhaps they are waiting for that to be ready and hit first.

>

> ' **See It For What It Is, Not What They Want You To See** '

>

> Confusion Mesmer- Published Sep 17, 2012 by Mesmer player

>

>

 

 

You know, this was in the days when confusion did more damage on skill activation and no damage if you sit there. The warrior could have quite literally stood there and done nothing and taken no damage but no, instead he crossed a glamour multiple times to get confusion while spamming his auto attack.

 

ANet does need to take into account various skill levels but not the absolute bottom level that don’t even understand what a condition does.

[Burnfall.9573]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> > @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > @"Xstein.2187" said:

> > > Mirage wan't hit by the condi crunch this patch. It will probably be hit next patch. Confusion on every shatter, Torment on every shatter, extra multi confusion stacks with blinding dissipation and Ineptitude (still at two stacks), Riddle of sand applying two instead of one stacks more of confusion, Jaunt still applying and extra 3 stacks. IMO, this is the first step that needs to be addressed. However, the devs also hinted at larger condi changes as well. So, perhaps they are waiting for that to be ready and hit first.

> >

> > ' **See It For What It Is, Not What They Want You To See** '

> >

> > Confusion Mesmer- Published Sep 17, 2012 by Mesmer player

> >

> >

>

>

> You know, this was in the days when confusion did more damage on skill activation and no damage if you sit there. The warrior could have quite literally stood there and done nothing and taken no damage but no, instead he crossed a glamour multiple times to get confusion while spamming his auto attack.

>

> ANet does need to take into account various skill levels but not the absolute bottom level that don’t even understand what a condition does.

 

Anet does need to take into account that history is there to teach... to learn, not to repeat again

 

(It baffles me that many problems we are experiencing today in the game; were already present years ago.; even going as far back into gw2 beta)

 

My question to Anet is; why repeat history instead of learning from it....leaving it behind than using the experiences as a stepping stool?

 

 

[Master Ketsu.4569]

10 bucks says OP hasn't figured out he can run into his own mirrors to chain evade for 12+ seconds.

[Cynz.9437]

> @"Ferus.3165" said:

> > @"Jinks.2057" said:

> > you are losing b/c you aren't good enough to win

> >

> > the people beating you aren't winning because they are good it's because you are not good enough

> >

> > 1v1 vs a mirage isn't about how skilled both opponents are but how competent the mirage player is. The non mirage players skill is irrelevant in this situation

>

> exactly this. so much this. that is why mirage is kitten and always will be as long as the mechanics stay like they are now in pvp/wvw.

>

> You can't win vs a competent mirage player. They've got so much stunbreak/instant teleports/invisibility/immunity to dmg that they have an answer for every situation. It doesn't matter what the non mirage player does, because the mirage has a counter to it everytime. It is far worse than dodge spam daredevil.

 

And here comes the biggest joke:

- Anet nerfs UC under excuse that it is too strong but introduces EM (which is arguably better than UC) and doesn't touch it for half year now

- Anet claims to address burst side of condis but doesn't touch confusion spam from mesmers (with yet another amazing excuse if you take overall game into consideration)

These 2 patches just scream "BUY POF", it is not even funny.

 

And as many said before, the fight between mes vs anything else is decided by mesmer skill. The skill of the opponent is irrelevant at this point. The spec is so opressing and offers so many tools that you often have long windows where you can't attack enemy (due to high access confusion and/or due to high access invul/evades etc.).

Also this -->

> @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> 10 bucks says OP hasn't figured out he can run into his own mirrors to chain evade for 12+ seconds.

[Vag.5682]

Nah its 100% worse.

 

1vs1 is the most broken thing ever hit the game. My warrior going 100-0 in a single hit(30 confusing stacking in 2 sec ftw). what do people do to defend their op bs is beyond me

[choovanski.5462]

dont worry it wont get nerfed. there’s a certain anet dev who cant kill beast who is making sure of it

[Burnfall.9573]

> @"choovanski.5462" said:

> dont worry it wont get nerfed. there’s a certain anet dev who cant kill beast who is making sure of it

 

Thief+Mesmer= Anet Favorite's since Gw2 Alpha beta

**Thief/Mesmer Are Anet Staple Classes For Gw2**

 

(The biggest mystery is; were these two classes designed simultaneously?)

 

[primatos.5413]

Skills which are causing dmg when moving or acting somehow have no place in a game where it is about these two things.. mesmer spams out shit and no matter what u do u´ll die ..bcz of the huge amount of theses condis ho ho funny .. class is too strong as it is .. the fact anet ignoring this doesn´t mean nothing.

We all know why there´s nearly no eles roaming these days : too weak compared with other classes .. but there´s a lot of mesmers out there bcs it´s mostly easy win.

[Daniel Handler.4816]

> @"Daishi.6027" said:

> @"choovanski.5462"

>

> Actually spellbreaker being able to hold points and it’s prowess was not okay. Overly strong sustain with damage in conquest will always be a problem.

>

> However you misunderstand me. I’m totally up for changes, but we need to change what our standards for change is based on.

>

> If 5v5 conquest is how we are balancing then a duelist who can’t reliably stall 1v3 isn’t going to be as OP especially in ranked where most you can do is duo.

>

> I’d absolutely be fine with 1v1 - 3v3 balance, but that clearly is not a design choice the game is going, and compared to other metas, mirage fills a role that many others have had and was deemed acceptable.

 

This is a good point. However, this goes beyond conquest.

 

The profession was designed to be an excellent duelist that suffers as x of 1vx increases (or becomes more powerful) because of the strengths/limitations of their class mechanic.

 

ANET balances for WVW and PVE first, modes where illusion destruction is much more common. They made elite specs that can sustain illusions through resets/retargeting and can provide group support and/or more sources of player-based dps. This is where the problem starts. Often tools that make a Mesmer more capable in aoe situations can be reappropriated for 1v1 to augment burst.

 

That's why this goes beyond conquest. People would rather Mesmer be support in every other game mode than be overtuned in a single aspect of 1.5 modes (pvp, and roaming WvW).

 

They should just remove ellusive mind and replace it with abused mind- grant 5 seconds of alacrity and quickness on dodge to nearby allies.

[viquing.8254]

>My warrior going 100-0 in a single hit

You mean you spam 4K imblocable evade, random 5k and you 100-0 the mes ?

 

>And as many said before, the fight between mes vs anything else is decided by mesmer skill. The skill of the opponent is irrelevant at this point.

Did you have any video or name of this king of mes , thoses skilled mesmers who win every 1c1 that I never saw in PvP ?

 

>Thief+Mesmer= Anet Favorite's since Gw2 Alpha beta

Gardian, Nec, Ele, War (you know the GWEN WvW meta of thoses 5 years.) = Anet Favorite's since Gw2 Alpha beta.

 

>Skills which are causing dmg when moving or acting somehow have no place in a game where it is about these two things.

Agreed, they remove on death clones, now we have :

* Evade condi spam thief.

* 4k unblocable evade spam war.

* 3*2k spam engi bombs.

But that's ok it's not cheesy cause it's not mesmer.

(pot calling the kettle black.)

 

>but there´s a lot of mesmers out there bcs it´s mostly easy win.

There is a lot of mesmer beacause of the mobility and the easy escape when things go bad.

Past it was many thieves because of the op perma speed + jump + condi mvt dispell trait who got nerfed recently.

 

--------

 

Things should be done on every professions to cut the global powercreep.

Today nearly every professions can burst non-tank builds down in few sec if they stake doing nothing .

[Cynz.9437]

I really want to see a video of dev explaining how to deal with good mirage.

[Morwath.9817]

> @"Cynz.9437" said:

> I really want to see a video of dev explaining how to deal with good mirage.

 

Quaggan found excellent tactic against Mirage yday, he doesn't que anymore for sPvP and Mirage can't ambush him!

[NeedCoffee.1402]

> @"Vag.5682" said:

> Nah its 100% worse.

>

> 1vs1 is the most broken thing ever hit the game. My warrior going 100-0 in a single hit(30 confusing stacking in 2 sec ftw). what do people do to defend their op bs is beyond me

 

This. The op is running cover because people are waking up/fed up. The mes forums were full of players laughing their kitten off post nerf. One post literally said "once SB is nerfed we will dominate pvp"

 

Don't fall for this nonsense like a sheep. Scream nerf mes as loud as you can.

[viquing.8254]

>I really want to see a video of dev explaining how to deal with good mirage.

For this we first need to find this good mirage everyone is talking about.

[Jinks.2057]

> @"Daniel Handler.4816" said:

> > @"Daishi.6027" said:

> > @"choovanski.5462"

> >

> > Actually spellbreaker being able to hold points and it’s prowess was not okay. Overly strong sustain with damage in conquest will always be a problem.

> >

> > However you misunderstand me. I’m totally up for changes, but we need to change what our standards for change is based on.

> >

> > If 5v5 conquest is how we are balancing then a duelist who can’t reliably stall 1v3 isn’t going to be as OP especially in ranked where most you can do is duo.

> >

> > I’d absolutely be fine with 1v1 - 3v3 balance, but that clearly is not a design choice the game is going, and compared to other metas, mirage fills a role that many others have had and was deemed acceptable.

>

> This is a good point. However, this goes beyond conquest.

>

> The profession was designed to be an excellent duelist that suffers as x of 1vx increases (or becomes more powerful) because of the strengths/limitations of their class mechanic.

>

> ANET balances for WVW and PVE first, modes where illusion destruction is much more common. They made elite specs that can sustain illusions through resets/retargeting and can provide group support and/or more sources of player-based dps. This is where the problem starts. Often tools that make a Mesmer more capable in aoe situations can be reappropriated for 1v1 to augment burst.

>

> That's why this goes beyond conquest. People would rather Mesmer be support in every other game mode than be overtuned in a single aspect of 1.5 modes (pvp, and roaming WvW).

>

> They should just remove ellusive mind and replace it with abused mind- grant 5 seconds of alacrity and quickness on dodge to nearby allies.

 

Anet does NOT balance for WvW and have stated on multiple occasions that it can't be balanced.

 

There are a handful of changes that have been made due to WvW. In the 1st year Anet did nerf glamour mesmers hard....granted it was after a video of 3-4 mesmers repeatedly killing map blobs surfacing lol