Balance Patch was obvious Necro-hate patch

[Morwath.9817]

> @"ZeftheWicked.3076" said:

> This is why i hated Scourge with a passion. This thing killed both core necro and reaper, which unlike Scourge were actually fun to play!

 

I disagree, Core isn't that bad, unless you mean top level of play, but it wasn't viable there for sooo long.

[Jinks.2057]

Necro players have nothing to complain about right now.

 

Scourges are the absolute most OP class in the game right now. When I'm on mine I just laugh at all death & mayhem I toss out with ease.

 

The elite needs to be gutted then gradually buffed until balanced.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"ZeftheWicked.3076" said:

> The way it should work is that all 3 of them (core, reaper, scourge) are viable choices and existence of one does not practically erase the existence of the other two.

>

Except it's never worked this way in GW2 ... even vanilla GW2 didn't work this way with all the builds you can make an which ones are optimal; that's completely a result of game design. So to have this expectation that we have a whole bunch of equivalent performing builds and specs is unrealistic, comical even. What we think SHOULD be the way it works has nothing to do with how the game did, does or will work.

 

 

[Toll Booth Willie.6723]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"ZeftheWicked.3076" said:

> > The way it should work is that all 3 of them (core, reaper, scourge) are viable choices and existence of one does not practically erase the existence of the other two.

> >

> Except it's never worked this way in GW2 ... even vanilla GW2 didn't work this way with all the builds you can make an which ones are optimal; that's completely a result of game design. So to have this expectation that we have a whole bunch of equivalent performing builds and specs is unrealistic, comical even. What we think SHOULD be the way it works has nothing to do with how the game did, does or will work.

>

>

 

To me this seems more a pve standpoint. Which is totally fair. However, what i say after this doesn't matter.

 

 

>@"Jinks.2057" said:

> Scourge (fixed) players have nothing to complain about right now.

>

> Scourges are the absolute most OP class in the game right now. When I'm on mine I just laugh at all death & mayhem I toss out with ease.

>

> The elite needs to be gutted then gradually buffed until balanced.

 

*edited for accuracy

 

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > @"Zero.3871" said:

> > > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > > @"Zero.3871" said:

> > > > > > @"narcx.3570" said:

> > > > > > I've been seeing more reapers since this patch... Unfortunately they've all been on my team. :anguished:

> > > > >

> > > > > my guildy today tried full berzerker reaper and fought 1 vs 1 against a weaver. he spiked everything he had to weaver and hit the weaver hard, but weaver never come under 90% life...2 mins later after the fight he got one shotted by daredevil who came out of invis... reaper is still trash...

> > > >

> > > > A single Soul Spiral from a berserker Reaper would 1-shot a typical sages weaver from full health. Your anecdote is not checking out.

> > >

> > > nope, weaver heal+barrier can negate a lot of dmg while reaper looses 1 k lf per second in shroud and neraly have no heal on normal lifepoints so reaper finally loose. weaver dont need to play high dmg build for killing reaper...sometimes a block or dodge skill to evade high dmg reaper skills is enough than.

> >

> > No not really. Reaper can sustain a weaver almost indefinitely.

> >

>

> Weaver damage is really low if they have sustain. Crinn is correct.

 

Yeah. Weaver dmg can be low . And still. I lost to a firebrand in the guild hall. He was playing full minstrel. So you actually dont need dmg to kill a reaper.

He never ever got under 50% health and slowly killed my power reaper with his burning.

 

Reaper right now is the most useless 1v1 class you can play. (Speaking of same skill lvl of both players).

 

And even scourge isnt that good as everyone says. Just outrange and kite him or perma cc him and he will be an ez kill.

[ShiroAero.8096]

Every condition class got "nerfed the same way as scourge. We don't need to attack devs as fast as they touch scourge. Scourge was broken now atleast more bareable in pvp.

[Zintrothen.1056]

Ele Arcane line would like a word with you.

[mulzi.8273]

> @"ShiroAero.8096" said:

> Every condition class got "nerfed the same way as scourge. We don't need to attack devs as fast as they touch scourge. Scourge was broken now atleast more bareable in pvp.

 

condi Mesmer would like to say hello.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Toll Booth Willie.6723" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"ZeftheWicked.3076" said:

> > > The way it should work is that all 3 of them (core, reaper, scourge) are viable choices and existence of one does not practically erase the existence of the other two.

> > >

> > Except it's never worked this way in GW2 ... even vanilla GW2 didn't work this way with all the builds you can make an which ones are optimal; that's completely a result of game design. So to have this expectation that we have a whole bunch of equivalent performing builds and specs is unrealistic, comical even. What we think SHOULD be the way it works has nothing to do with how the game did, does or will work.

> >

> >

>

> To me this seems more a pve standpoint. Which is totally fair. However, what i say after this doesn't matter.

>

 

It's not, because in THIS game, I can play whatever build I want in PVE (within reason of course, considering the most challenging content encourages people using teamwork to win) and be successful ... mostly because I've overcome personal barriers and thrown away old baggage I had from other MMO's about the 'right' way to play. The idea that the game need 'equivalent performance' from a whole bunch of classes and builds in them evaporates from this truth. It's the price to play the builds you want.

 

If anything, the answer to these build and class balancing complaints from a PVP POV is the fact that Anet can't account for the most significant factors in PVP success; the players skill (knowledge and reflexes), the strategy and the tactics. Add into that a game where mechanics can be changed whenever Anet feels like it ... forget about it. There are many bright points players can find and the best part is that those are not constant. The balance is when those points change, not when they are all the same.

[ShiroAero.8096]

 

 

> @"mulzi.8273" said:

> > @"ShiroAero.8096" said:

> > Every condition class got "nerfed the same way as scourge. We don't need to attack devs as fast as they touch scourge. Scourge was broken now atleast more bareable in pvp.

>

> condi Mesmer would like to say hello.

 

ok true that lol but still scourge needed some nerf

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"ShiroAero.8096" said:

>

>

> > @"mulzi.8273" said:

> > > @"ShiroAero.8096" said:

> > > Every condition class got "nerfed the same way as scourge. We don't need to attack devs as fast as they touch scourge. Scourge was broken now atleast more bareable in pvp.

> >

> > condi Mesmer would like to say hello.

>

> ok true that lol but still scourge needed some nerf

 

Well scourge needed counterplay not "numbers" nerfs. Honnestly the scourge is still as toxic (for the game, for the necromancers themself and for other professions) as he was before since there is still no counterplay to scourge shroud skills. The way they handled condition in this patch wasn't even close to what we should call a "profession's balance patch", It was just a "condition baalance patch".

 

This patch aimed at redefining conditions into the game, it didn't aim at balancing professions. Thus I find the title of the thread a bit over the top. It could have been a lot worse, the necromancer end up almost unscathed from this patch. Look at the elementalist that think it's the end of the world, look at the revenants that thought that they couldn't be worse than they were before... etc. This wasn't even close to a "necro hate" patch.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"ShiroAero.8096" said:

> >

> >

> > > @"mulzi.8273" said:

> > > > @"ShiroAero.8096" said:

> > > > Every condition class got "nerfed the same way as scourge. We don't need to attack devs as fast as they touch scourge. Scourge was broken now atleast more bareable in pvp.

> > >

> > > condi Mesmer would like to say hello.

> >

> > ok true that lol but still scourge needed some nerf

>

> Well scourge needed counterplay not "numbers" nerfs. Honnestly the scourge is still as toxic (for the game, for the necromancers themself and for other professions) as he was before since there is still no counterplay to scourge shroud skills. The way they handled condition in this patch wasn't even close to what we should call a "profession's balance patch", It was just a "condition baalance patch".

>

> This patch aimed at redefining conditions into the game, it didn't aim at balancing professions. Thus I find the title of the thread a bit over the top. It could have been a lot worse, the necromancer end up almost unscathed from this patch. Look at the elementalist that think it's the end of the world, look at the revenants that thought that they couldn't be worse than they were before... etc. This wasn't even close to a "necro hate" patch.

 

LOL. There is almost everywhere counterplay possible. Since u can get "obstructed" even on flat terrain. So its easy if you know your surroundings better than the enemy scourge.

 

And just to say. There is some pretty easy counterplay: just outrange the scourge or perma cc him.

 

Everyone talking about "eh scourge is op, nerf it" just never ever played scourge himself and got shit on by a ranger or perma cced by a warrior, or oneshotted by a mirage.

 

Or he never ever got an opponent with a brain, while playing necro.

 

Sorry, but scourge only gets good in teamfights. And ther you can focus and perma-cc gim as well. So no joke but thats hillarious speaking bout scourge to be op.

[Dadnir.5038]

You don't get it, I don't say "scourge is op", I'm saying that scourge shroud skills are imbalanced. No skill should be able to apply some harming effect instantly and without any tell. The same way, a skill like _desert shroud_ on a very short cool down shouldn't exist in the game.

 

Yes you can beat a scourge easily but no! There is no counterplay to scourge's shroud skills and that's where things are imbalanced. Being objective is often necessary in one's life and you're not objective here.

[Methuselah.4376]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> You don't get it, I don't say "scourge is op", I'm saying that scourge shroud skills are imbalanced. No skill should be able to apply some harming effect instantly and without any tell. The same way, a skill like _desert shroud_ on a very short cool down shouldn't exist in the game.

>

> Yes you can beat a scourge easily but no! There is no counterplay to scourge's shroud skills and that's where things are imbalanced. Being objective is often necessary in one's life and you're not objective here.

 

Erm....stay out of shades, stay at a reasonable distance, power damage (heck even condi damage if there's enough to overwhelm) and BOOM there's your scourge counterplay. Honestly I don't think they should do anything with the F skills because we depend on area coverage that can easily be dodged out of if players have half a brain cell to call their own.

"Same as every other class" I hear you say. Well no, a condi mesmer doesn't need a fixed point per say to delivery it's optimum damage. Scourges do. Either that or get close. And since they removed the burstibility of condi's, getting close has gotten all that much more riskier.

[Asur.9178]

The willful ignorance in this thread is astounding.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Asur.9178" said:

> The willful ignorance in this thread is astounding.

 

Indeed.

[Zero.3871]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> You don't get it, I don't say "scourge is op", I'm saying that scourge shroud skills are imbalanced. No skill should be able to apply some harming effect instantly and without any tell. The same way, a skill like _desert shroud_ on a very short cool down shouldn't exist in the game.

>

> Yes you can beat a scourge easily but no! There is no counterplay to scourge's shroud skills and that's where things are imbalanced. Being objective is often necessary in one's life and you're not objective here.

 

nope, scourge f skills are not imbalance because they are very limited by lf of scourge. scourges are slaves of their life force. everyone cry scourge is facerolling about their f skills, but use all of them in 1 spike kills 70% of your lifeforce. and lf reg is very limited too. only spectral armor is a good lifeforce reg skill, thats the reason every necro play with it. its the same with rev skills that often have low cd's but are limited by energy they need to cast.

[Vitali.5039]

> @"Zero.3871" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > You don't get it, I don't say "scourge is op", I'm saying that scourge shroud skills are imbalanced. No skill should be able to apply some harming effect instantly and without any tell. The same way, a skill like _desert shroud_ on a very short cool down shouldn't exist in the game.

> >

> > Yes you can beat a scourge easily but no! There is no counterplay to scourge's shroud skills and that's where things are imbalanced. Being objective is often necessary in one's life and you're not objective here.

>

> nope, scourge f skills are not imbalance because they are very limited by lf of scourge. scourges are slaves of their life force. everyone cry scourge is facerolling about their f skills, but use all of them in 1 spike kills 70% of your lifeforce. and lf reg is very limited too. only spectral armor is a good lifeforce reg skill, thats the reason every necro play with it. its the same with rev skills that often have low cd's but are limited by energy they need to cast.

 

Scourge don't faceroll all the F skills, only Nefarious Favor and Desert Shroud.

And the first can give a good amount of life force. Another round of "defence/offence at the same time" meme.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> You don't get it, I don't say "scourge is op", I'm saying that scourge shroud skills are imbalanced. No skill should be able to apply some harming effect instantly and without any tell. The same way, a skill like _desert shroud_ on a very short cool down shouldn't exist in the game.

>

 

 

Then you would need to delete stealth from the game. Since you cant see attacks coming from stealth either.

And give everything a huge casting time, cause having a full counter you cant see coming is very unbalanced as well with you argumentation.

 

And i could go on...

[Odokuro.5049]

Scourge was never intended to be the Cond-Bomber 9000 that it was. Originally Scourge was intended to give Necromancers the ability to bring both forms of Support and Group Utility, so that they became more welcomed in various parts of Guild Wars 2.

[Genesis.5169]

It was, and every condition user felt it because of it. To me it maybe one of the worse patches in pvp history talk about taking a nuke to an ant mound.

 

> @"Odokuro.5049" said:

> Scourge was never intended to be the Cond-Bomber 9000 that it was. Originally Scourge was intended to give Necromancers the ability to bring both forms of Support and Group Utility, so that they became more welcomed in various parts of Guild Wars 2.

 

Where's the citation at?

Cause i'm really tired of people making things up.

[Obtena.7952]

To be fair, I think the statement that should be made is that Scourge should have never been the Condi Bomber that it was .. and that's not just made up either ... Anet confirmed with the last patch they don't want conditions to be burst damage ...

 

So let's play nice and not challenge EVERY statement people make with the need for a 'citation' when we all know these things for FACTS that Anet has very plainly given to us in statements they made only very recently shall we?

[Ivantreil.3092]

> @"Asur.9178" said:

> The willful ignorance in this thread is astounding.

 

It isn't ignorance, its pure Bias and blind denial that scourge (and only scourge, no other necro aspect or elite) lives in a fantasy meta compared to everyone else, these guys can surely acknowledge that, they play literally hours on it.

 

And btw, PvE underperformance isnt an excuse for deny how oppresive is their presence in pvp/wvw.

[Sigmoid.7082]

@Obtena.7952

I believe the challenge is more to those who imply scourge is supposed to be solely a support class and nothing more. i.e. not do damage.

[Genesis.5169]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> To be fair, I think the statement that should be made is that Scourge should have never been the Condi Bomber that it was .. and that's not just made up either ... Anet confirmed with the last patch they don't want conditions to be burst damage ...

>

> So let's play nice and not challenge EVERY statement people make with the need for a 'citation' when we all know these things for FACTS that Anet has very plainly given to us in statements they made only very recently shall we?

 

No what we know is they don't want condition damage bursting, what the other guy said is scourge was meant to be a support role to help Necros get into more positions in the game. Those two things are not equivalent, your so called "facts" are no there just people making things up. Absurd things like that need to be challenged plenty of people on the forums read here an do not post I would rather not have some one spread misinformation because he's salty about a class.