Power creep and HP

[Morwath.9817]

Ooo, Quaggan find it pretty weird, that HoT power creep gave us more boons, more damage and more healing, same did PoF, but our health pools remained nearly the same since launch.

When other games introduce expansions which cause power creep, they usualy raise HP together with other stuff, but foooooo in GW2 this doesn't happen... Could someone explain this to poor lost Quaggan?

[tartarus.1082]

I personally would just like to see damage needed than hp raised. Otherwise it would just make the power creep feel "official" rather than an imbalance that needs to be corrected.

 

But the simple answer, cause it's anet :p

[Cynz.9437]

I personally think they should have gone creative with xpac (new spells are OK, new overloaded spells are absolutely not ok). Instead they chose lazy path of more dmg, more defensives, more condis etc. We were told specs will be alternative to the existing builds but specs are just plain upgrade. Raising HP pool would be just more powercreep. And very lazy solution (if at all) to current issues.

[Morwath.9817]

> @"Cynz.9437" said:

> I personally think they should have gone creative with xpac (new spells are OK, new overloaded spells are absolutely not ok). Instead they chose lazy path of more dmg, more defensives, more condis etc. We were told specs will be alternative to the existing builds but specs are just plain upgrade. Raising HP pool would be just more powercreep. And very lazy solution (if at all) to current issues.

 

...but if healing and damage are to stay, shouldn't Quaggan have more HP to face tank it, like in good old times?

[Cynz.9437]

> @"Morwath.9817" said:

> > @"Cynz.9437" said:

> > I personally think they should have gone creative with xpac (new spells are OK, new overloaded spells are absolutely not ok). Instead they chose lazy path of more dmg, more defensives, more condis etc. We were told specs will be alternative to the existing builds but specs are just plain upgrade. Raising HP pool would be just more powercreep. And very lazy solution (if at all) to current issues.

>

> ...but if healing and damage are to stay, shouldn't Quaggan have more HP to **face tank** it, like in good old times?

 

Pretty sure you couldn't facetank anything in good old times. If you got caught in stun of hambow, you were toast without stun breaks.

[Morwath.9817]

> @"Cynz.9437" said:

> > @"Morwath.9817" said:

> > > @"Cynz.9437" said:

> > > I personally think they should have gone creative with xpac (new spells are OK, new overloaded spells are absolutely not ok). Instead they chose lazy path of more dmg, more defensives, more condis etc. We were told specs will be alternative to the existing builds but specs are just plain upgrade. Raising HP pool would be just more powercreep. And very lazy solution (if at all) to current issues.

> >

> > ...but if healing and damage are to stay, shouldn't Quaggan have more HP to **face tank** it, like in good old times?

>

> Pretty sure you couldn't facetank anything in good old times. If you got caught in stun of hambow, you were toast without stun breaks.

 

It was a Joko, suggesting **if** damage won't get toned down, we should get more HP.

[Curennos.9307]

A couple thousands more hp would be nice, imo. It's beginning to feel like taking a single hit is the end of everything, because that single hit deals 50%+ of my health bar, applies annoying condis, and somehow is gonna be coming my way again in about ten seconds.

[Cynz.9437]

You do realize some classes will become unkillable if HP pool would be raised?

[Morwath.9817]

> @"Cynz.9437" said:

> You do realize some classes will become unkillable if HP pool would be raised?

 

It awould depend how much would you raise their HP and if you would raise HP of all classes.

[Cynz.9437]

> @"Morwath.9817" said:

> > @"Cynz.9437" said:

> > You do realize some classes will become unkillable if HP pool would be raised?

>

> It awould depend how much would you raise their HP and if you would raise HP of all classes.

 

Heals are HP based. Imagine Fb, sb or druid with higher HP /shudder

[Morwath.9817]

> @"Cynz.9437" said:

> > @"Morwath.9817" said:

> > > @"Cynz.9437" said:

> > > You do realize some classes will become unkillable if HP pool would be raised?

> >

> > It awould depend how much would you raise their HP and if you would raise HP of all classes.

>

> Heals are HP based. Imagine Fb, sb or druid with higher HP /shudder

 

Those are rather last to "buff" in any way.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

Some classes absolutly need more hp.....having ele thf gaurd all at 11.9k hp makes it almost...no it is absolutely immpossible to run certain ammys n build because you just have no hp for the condi bombs since condis ignore armor stat.

For example a warrior can run demolishers hammy giving him nice dps burst stats along with 2900 def and still have 19.5k base hp. Against an ele thf gaurd with demolishers we stuck at 2.6k def and 11.9k hp all while having the same stats in dps burst area piwer percision ferocity all the same while war and other classes have a major MAJOR advantage. This needs to be addressed i feel if you really want fair competitive play.

[Cynz.9437]

> @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> Some classes absolutly need more hp.....having ele thf gaurd all at 11.9k hp makes it almost...no it is absolutely immpossible to run certain ammys n build because you just have no hp for the condi bombs since condis ignore armor stat.

> For example a warrior can run demolishers hammy giving him nice dps burst stats along with 2900 def and still have 19.5k base hp. Against an ele thf gaurd with demolishers we stuck at 2.6k def and 11.9k hp all while having the same stats in dps burst area piwer percision ferocity all the same while war and other classes have a major MAJOR advantage. This needs to be addressed i feel if you really want fair competitive play.

 

Let's not forget that warriors have usually long cast times on spells unlike thief for example. That is why scourge feels so broken atm. Shades are really strong and have no cast time.

 

> @"Morwath.9817" said:

> > @"Cynz.9437" said:

> > > @"Morwath.9817" said:

> > > > @"Cynz.9437" said:

> > > > You do realize some classes will become unkillable if HP pool would be raised?

> > >

> > > It awould depend how much would you raise their HP and if you would raise HP of all classes.

> >

> > Heals are HP based. Imagine Fb, sb or druid with higher HP /shudder

>

> Those are rather last to "buff" in any way.

 

You have unreasonable faith in class balance team.

[Morwath.9817]

> @"Cynz.9437" said:

> You have unreasonable faith in class balance team.

 

Quaggan has some faith in balance team, but he has more faith in PvP team, which is in touch with us PvP players, thats why Quaggan made little sugestion regarding amulets [here](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/321882/#Comment_321882 "here"), as it covers also this topic.

 

[Xillllix.3485]

> @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> Some classes absolutly need more hp.....having ele thf gaurd all at 11.9k hp makes it almost...no it is absolutely immpossible to run certain ammys n build because you just have no hp for the condi bombs since condis ignore armor stat.

> For example a warrior can run demolishers hammy giving him nice dps burst stats along with 2900 def and still have 19.5k base hp. Against an ele thf gaurd with demolishers we stuck at 2.6k def and 11.9k hp all while having the same stats in dps burst area piwer percision ferocity all the same while war and other classes have a major MAJOR advantage. This needs to be addressed i feel if you really want fair competitive play.

 

The thing is that it was rewarding to play ele 3 years ago. You had your 15k meteors with tornado and good cleanse. Only the thief could one-shot an elementalist and it was fine that way. People use to complain about 10k backstab. Now we have 17k CoR from heavy classes.

 

There used to be roles instead of a condi-fest-spam.

[Loop.8106]

> @"Morwath.9817" said:

> > @"Cynz.9437" said:

> > > @"Morwath.9817" said:

> > > > @"Cynz.9437" said:

> > > > You do realize some classes will become unkillable if HP pool would be raised?

> > >

> > > It awould depend how much would you raise their HP and if you would raise HP of all classes.

> >

> > Heals are HP based. Imagine Fb, sb or druid with higher HP /shudder

>

> Those are rather last to "buff" in any way.

 

Do Firebrand need a higher health-pool? Absolutely not.

Could Guardian / Dragonhunter use a higher health-pool? Yes, they should never have had 11k to begin with.

[Morwath.9817]

> @"Loop.8106" said:

> > @"Morwath.9817" said:

> > > @"Cynz.9437" said:

> > > > @"Morwath.9817" said:

> > > > > @"Cynz.9437" said:

> > > > > You do realize some classes will become unkillable if HP pool would be raised?

> > > >

> > > > It awould depend how much would you raise their HP and if you would raise HP of all classes.

> > >

> > > Heals are HP based. Imagine Fb, sb or druid with higher HP /shudder

> >

> > Those are rather last to "buff" in any way.

>

> Do Firebrand need a higher health-pool? Absolutely not.

> Could Guardian / Dragonhunter use a higher health-pool? Yes, they should never have had 11k to begin with.

 

Thats a good point Quaggan thinks, vitality could be specialization based.

Soulbeast or Core Ranger could have higher vitality than Druid and it wouldn't break the game.

[jihm.2315]

the damage needs reduction in pvp then hp and defense will be ok

[witcher.3197]

I was thinking about this before but it probably would just make things worse. Why? Anet would start buffing underperforming stuff to do fine against the large HP, then these would become stronger than what dps builds we have now (they'd obviously overbuff shit, as they always do), then Anet would start buffing those that used to be strong just to bring them up to the new OP.. and we'd just end up in an even worse situation eventually.

 

Other thing is, if you die to a condi bomb ticking for 8k/sec then another 5-10k HP wouldn't make much difference.

[Burnfall.9573]

 

> @"Cynz.9437" said:

> You do realize some classes will become unkillable if HP pool would be raised?

 

Indeed

 

Don't forget that power creep in those games have monthly* profession balance update patches which forces professions to take more risks and to make more efforts due to the power creep increase.

 

[Apolo.5942]

Been saying for a while now, that the game needed to slow down, about time people realized it.

[ChivalrousKnight.7201]

I would love to see changes to base HP. Currently my ele is forced to run 0 toughness because I must stack vitality to survive condis (then gets melted by power builds). Either that or make toughness reduce condi damage. Of course, further balancing would be required to accommodate the changes. Ever since I changed to warrior w/ demolishers I've climbed from silver to plat in a span of 1 month as a new player. It's just so much easier when you don't have to worry about getting bursted due to low base stats.