Why do you play?

[Chorne.8195]

I personally am having tons of fun with this game. I do the following:

* Achievements, I'm going insane with them. Skin collection, rare items, minis, titles...

* Building up my home instance. It's fun.

* Exploring old maps I haven't been to...

* Exploring new maps I was too busy to finish...

* GW2 Style. I love making new characters, leveling them to level 80 and giving them a perfect look and backstory.

* Generally messing around. For example, one day I'll go around the world beating every jumping puzzle I can find. The next day I'll kind of quietly RP to myself, walking around in stupid outfits and making up stories of what my character is doing in my head.

[Vayne.8563]

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"Incarne.4927" said:

> > The game has lost its magic. Was great in the beginning, but cosmetic treadmill =/= fun.

>

> Perhaps not fun for you. ;) Anet must be doing something right to please the majority in order to keep their lights on.

 

Where as the gear treadmill offers nothing for me and I don't consider that fun while I do consider this fun. Anet doesn't have to please the majority. They have to appease a big enough minority.

 

The problem is most MMOs offer very similar things. They all pretty much raise the level cap with every expansion and they all have some sort of gear treadmill. Which means most MMOs aren't going to be something I enjoy. There are probably more people who enjoy/are indoctrinated into that sort of thing than there are people like me.

 

But people like me only have one game to play. You have to divide the people who like the other way amongst a whole lot more games. By being itself, this game is attracting people who like that sort of thing. And hopefully, moving forward, Anet will keep in mind that having it's own identity is what made this game strong and popular in the first place.

 

They did a great job with mounts and grudgingly raids as well, making the different from other games (even though I still don't believe raids ever belonged in this game).

 

But to say that the majority of the playerbase is happy with this game means that there have to be more people here than have left over the years. I'm not sure any MMO has a majority of the player base that remains happy. What's important is to have a strong, loyal core player base that remains more or less stable. That's how games get to five, ten years old.

[Scarlett.1605]

I play because it is visually appealing, the world is vast and detailed, the random events that appear everywhere. The community is still nice and helpful. There are not a million buttons to hit, and jumping puzzles, even the really frustrating want to throw my peripherals ones. It's just fun!

[Silencio.2604]

The dailies are pretty dull and not really worth the gold, could use an update, some more depth and things like kill number of certain mobs type quests, kill world boss, well those already are dailies sort of. And world bosses need difficulty update, pve needs scaling for large groups.

Fractals, well they are all becoming longer now, don't really like the new one for this reason and the changes to the old ones. More short boss fights would be nice to make it less time consuming/dull.

pvp.... fighting people with special mouses and years of experience and overpowered builds as a returning player, no thanks.

wvw lots of running to either zerg or be zerged zzzzzzzzz

fashion? black dye standard gear thanks

After exploring all of HoT and trying to finish ascended gear for 1 character and doing prep for legendary, which all was fun, I'm getting really bored too think I need long break or finally find a fun and active guild.

[Mourningcry.9428]

Play to crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women!

[Donari.5237]

> @"Mourningcry.9428" said:

> Play to crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women!

 

What if your enemies are women and the men are the lamenting ones?

[Mourningcry.9428]

> @"Donari.5237" said:

> > @"Mourningcry.9428" said:

> > Play to crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women!

>

> What if your enemies are women and the men are the lamenting ones?

 

If your enemies are women, odds are you're the one lamenting.

 

 

[Scarlett.1605]

> @"Mourningcry.9428" said:

> Play to crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women!

 

Nice Conan quote haha

[Mourningcry.9428]

> @"Scarlett.1605" said:

> > @"Mourningcry.9428" said:

> > Play to crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women!

>

> Nice Conan quote haha

 

:)

 

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Vayne.8563" said:

> > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > @"Incarne.4927" said:

> > > The game has lost its magic. Was great in the beginning, but cosmetic treadmill =/= fun.

> >

> > Perhaps not fun for you. ;) Anet must be doing something right to please the majority in order to keep their lights on.

>

> Where as the gear treadmill offers nothing for me and I don't consider that fun while I do consider this fun. Anet doesn't have to please the majority. They have to appease a big enough minority.

>

> The problem is most MMOs offer very similar things. They all pretty much raise the level cap with every expansion and they all have some sort of gear treadmill. Which means most MMOs aren't going to be something I enjoy. There are probably more people who enjoy/are indoctrinated into that sort of thing than there are people like me.

>

> But people like me only have one game to play. You have to divide the people who like the other way amongst a whole lot more games. By being itself, this game is attracting people who like that sort of thing. And hopefully, moving forward, Anet will keep in mind that having it's own identity is what made this game strong and popular in the first place.

>

> They did a great job with mounts and grudgingly raids as well, making the different from other games (even though I still don't believe raids ever belonged in this game).

>

> But to say that the majority of the playerbase is happy with this game means that there have to be more people here than have left over the years. I'm not sure any MMO has a majority of the player base that remains happy. What's important is to have a strong, loyal core player base that remains more or less stable. That's how games get to five, ten years old.

 

Yet again, agreed.

[Svarty.8019]

> @"Vayne.8563" said:

> What's important is to have a strong, loyal core player base that remains more or less stable. That's how games get to five, ten years old.

 

I have a suspicion that a lot of players bought PoF expecting it to have the replayability of HoT. If it doesn't, what do they do now? Raids? I'll just point out that my guildmates also said they were satisfied with their purchase and feel they got their money's worth. But I don't see them online very much anymore.

[Vayne.8563]

> @"Svarty.8019" said:

> > @"Vayne.8563" said:

> > What's important is to have a strong, loyal core player base that remains more or less stable. That's how games get to five, ten years old.

>

> I have a suspicion that a lot of players bought PoF expecting it to have the replayability of HoT. If it doesn't, what do they do now? Raids? I'll just point out that my guildmates also said they were satisfied with their purchase and feel they got their money's worth. But I don't see them online very much anymore.

 

Dunno, most of my guild, myself excluded, seems to prefer PoF to HoT. I personally preferred HoT but I don't think the bulk of the playerbase did. Most of my guild is still banging around in PoF.

 

The harder core guys were always going to like HoT better. Not sure that you can convince me (or most people) that they're some sort of majority though.

[SwankyMutt.9521]

Why do I play? Mostly my friends. I have over the years made quite a few friendships (and dragged a few here from other MMOs previously played) in the game and usually just log on to hang with them. Sometimes the story or wvw gets meh. However no matter what it is I do, we usually do together and that's what makes it enjoyable to me.

[Dreamy Lu.3865]

I play for several reasons, main one being: I do love that game and never seem to get enough of it.

- I am attached emotionally to my toons, who follow from my GW1 toons (where I return regularly).

- I have loads of achievements undone, with several things that I have not even started yet due to lack of time.

- Out of what I love the most are all the graphics, rich, allowing that still nowadays, after all those years (I play since beta), I still discover things in Divinity Reach for example. The graphics are a source of constant discoveries.

- I love to do my preferred activities: PvE, WvW, fractals and world completion that I keep always ongoing as a side activity with whatever of my chars.

- I love to be there with friends and very much appreciate the community, which majority is made of helpful people, coming with same objective to make fun. It is true that over the weekend, we get some trolls, but since they are mostly ignored, they never last for long.

- I do love that GW2 is a game of continuity, allowing to follow a story, learn over time, building experience, allowing testing and practicing, allowing to go back and forth between the different stories and the different achievements (new and old). v

 

Generally, this game offers such a huge amount and variety of activities that I do not understand how it is possible to have everything done. It is true that I am not one who does rush at new stuff and get "all done" within a few days after beginnin. When LS4 came out, I had not finished PoF storyline and had to force myself to last primary. I had tons of achievements undone from PoF and the one from LS4 suddenly add to that... It keeps the excitement to have that many things to do in sight.

Personally, I don't understand the players who hurry immediately to have everything done fast, and then complain they have nothing left. Why hurrying? Don't misunderstand, I don't tell it is bad. Just, if players chose to hurry and do all new content fast, fair enough, that's their choice, but then don't complain once it is over.

 

I tend to believe that there is a new type of players who want to do always something new, and be fast at it. GW2 is not that type of game. Main of its content is to do over time and the living stories are "only" something limited added at the top of it once in a while, but not done to be a full game content. So for those players, not interested in the long term content, probably the solution is to dash between GW2 and other games. I understand that.

[Cuon Alpinus.7645]

I like being a big beefy cat man

[Edelweiss.4261]

I generally play some mmo while between games. Guild Wars 2 is a common go-to for me because of how players interact in open world content. I really like that a formal party isn't needed for cooperation. Forming a pug in other mmos is unpleasant more often than not.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

For its fun

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

Somewhat steady updates to the game with new content and achievements. Also, and sadly, there's really no other MMOs that keep my attention.

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > > You said JPs are fun and events are fun. What more than _fun_ is the purpose of playing games?

> >

> > Even the best thing in the world grows stale if you do it often enough?

> >

> > Although i believe that there's a ton of stuff to do in the game, in the end, if you really take a step back, it ends up mostly being the same thing. You grind/farm stuff for hours and you're rewarded with a skin, not even a great one, but you do it for the AP, to clear that from the list, and while i can still enjoy it, some might not.

> > The game sure has deviated from Colin's "Grind isn't fun" statement pre-launch.

> > I mean, look at just about any prestige thing in the game. And all is hidden behind a gigantic gold sink, material farm, or something akin to that. Or behind terrible odds on a huge RNG that, again requires a ton of gold, or grind to obtain.

> > I really can't remember the last time i obtained something of significance purely out of playing the game well... Maybe the Fractal and PvP legendary backs... And even those required a bit of farming for mats.

> >

> > All in all, while i still enjoy this game, Arena Net ultimately failed at their objective of making the game dynamic, fun, and rewarding without resorting to the exact same tropes as their competitors.

> >

>

> The reason I go back to old games I've played while in diapers that I've played thousands of times is because I enjoy the games.

> The issue here is of course if he's just not having fun now, he should either give it a break or something.

> IF as I've said and think, the issue in why he's not having fun no more is because he can't get any stronger and I guess got the skins that's perfect for one character or something and not in the mood to make another, then it's best he just go to another game as he has accomplished the journey/goal that he was set to do and there's nothing more that can be done for him anymore.

 

The reason you go back is because nostalgia. Hence you're "going back" not "kept playing".

Again if you read my post, i still enjoy GW2, but the issues of "lack of meaningful rewards" and "replayability" have been prevalent since launch, and have only grown worse and worse with so much emphasis in the gem store. I mean, last skin i "had to have" and actually actively sought out that reward was the Houndskin Mantle. And, while i like that skin, i mean we had to do 20 Achievements to get that.

And the "20 Achievements" part is a symptom of the problem. Since like LS2, Arena Net decided on this model of one "meta" achievement that gives the "actual" reward, and kept the same cookie cutter reward structure. I see the appeal for them, they "force" us to play a lot of time for a single reward, which is pretty much the most "bang for their buck" but it gets stale real quick.

I mean used to be that we did dungeons for the tokens that we could use for rewards exclusive to that dungeon (Sigils, Runes, Armor sets, Weapon Sets, Pots and Gifts for Legendaries).

Now look at fractals, what does it have that is exclusive? A couple of Challenge Mode rewards - several of these rehashed season 1 rewards, an ascended back, Fractal Weapon SKINS, and the legendary back hidden behind a lot of achievements and collections? The rest USED to be exclusive rewards, but now are available outside Fractals, sometimes more easily.

Open world, especially the most recent maps, is even more ludicrous, i mean just look at the cost of any ascended item from PoF, then compare it to the cost of buying the same item from a stat selectable vendor and you'll understand just how detached the developers in charge of these things are from the game, and how little they concern themselves with making the game fun and rewarding (because, yes while a few of us might enjoy the game for the game, for A LOT of people rewards are what makes it fun, and the few of us can't sustain the game by ourselves).

 

I'm not proposing i know the solution for this except from the basic common sense (which is often found lacking):

- Time gated isn't fun

- Grindy isn't fun

- Having rewards cost more in one area than in others as a means to keep people grinding in those areas will have the opposite effect

- Seeing potential in-game rewards being channeled to the Gemstore is frustrating (frustrating is the polar opposite of fun)

- Hard to get must mean HARD TO GET, not EXPENSIVE. When stuff is hard to get it's fun, it's rewarding when you get it. The griffon was almost there, although having a few more activities to do instead of the 250g barrier would be fun.

- And this is how you can see if it's working well: When people stop saying stuff like "the Griffon costs 250g", or "i need 600g in mystic coins for that legendary", and start saying "i need to kill that guy" or "i need to do this hard thing", then people will be focused in playing the game, instead of farming for gold, which increases the odds that they're having fun.

[Vayne.8563]

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > > > You said JPs are fun and events are fun. What more than _fun_ is the purpose of playing games?

> > >

> > > Even the best thing in the world grows stale if you do it often enough?

> > >

> > > Although i believe that there's a ton of stuff to do in the game, in the end, if you really take a step back, it ends up mostly being the same thing. You grind/farm stuff for hours and you're rewarded with a skin, not even a great one, but you do it for the AP, to clear that from the list, and while i can still enjoy it, some might not.

> > > The game sure has deviated from Colin's "Grind isn't fun" statement pre-launch.

> > > I mean, look at just about any prestige thing in the game. And all is hidden behind a gigantic gold sink, material farm, or something akin to that. Or behind terrible odds on a huge RNG that, again requires a ton of gold, or grind to obtain.

> > > I really can't remember the last time i obtained something of significance purely out of playing the game well... Maybe the Fractal and PvP legendary backs... And even those required a bit of farming for mats.

> > >

> > > All in all, while i still enjoy this game, Arena Net ultimately failed at their objective of making the game dynamic, fun, and rewarding without resorting to the exact same tropes as their competitors.

> > >

> >

> > The reason I go back to old games I've played while in diapers that I've played thousands of times is because I enjoy the games.

> > The issue here is of course if he's just not having fun now, he should either give it a break or something.

> > IF as I've said and think, the issue in why he's not having fun no more is because he can't get any stronger and I guess got the skins that's perfect for one character or something and not in the mood to make another, then it's best he just go to another game as he has accomplished the journey/goal that he was set to do and there's nothing more that can be done for him anymore.

>

> The reason you go back is because nostalgia. Hence you're "going back" not "kept playing".

> Again if you read my post, i still enjoy GW2, but the issues of "lack of meaningful rewards" and "replayability" have been prevalent since launch, and have only grown worse and worse with so much emphasis in the gem store. I mean, last skin i "had to have" and actually actively sought out that reward was the Houndskin Mantle. And, while i like that skin, i mean we had to do 20 Achievements to get that.

> And the "20 Achievements" part is a symptom of the problem. Since like LS2, Arena Net decided on this model of one "meta" achievement that gives the "actual" reward, and kept the same cookie cutter reward structure. I see the appeal for them, they "force" us to play a lot of time for a single reward, which is pretty much the most "bang for their buck" but it gets stale real quick.

> I mean used to be that we did dungeons for the tokens that we could use for rewards exclusive to that dungeon (Sigils, Runes, Armor sets, Weapon Sets, Pots and Gifts for Legendaries).

> Now look at fractals, what does it have that is exclusive? A couple of Challenge Mode rewards - several of these rehashed season 1 rewards, an ascended back, Fractal Weapon SKINS, and the legendary back hidden behind a lot of achievements and collections? The rest USED to be exclusive rewards, but now are available outside Fractals, sometimes more easily.

> Open world, especially the most recent maps, is even more ludicrous, i mean just look at the cost of any ascended item from PoF, then compare it to the cost of buying the same item from a stat selectable vendor and you'll understand just how detached the developers in charge of these things are from the game, and how little they concern themselves with making the game fun and rewarding (because, yes while a few of us might enjoy the game for the game, for A LOT of people rewards are what makes it fun, and the few of us can't sustain the game by ourselves).

>

> I'm not proposing i know the solution for this except from the basic common sense (which is often found lacking):

> - Time gated isn't fun

> - Grindy isn't fun

> - Having rewards cost more in one area than in others as a means to keep people grinding in those areas will have the opposite effect

> - Seeing potential in-game rewards being channeled to the Gemstore is frustrating (frustrating is the polar opposite of fun)

> - Hard to get must mean HARD TO GET, not EXPENSIVE. When stuff is hard to get it's fun, it's rewarding when you get it. The griffon was almost there, although having a few more activities to do instead of the 250g barrier would be fun.

> - And this is how you can see if it's working well: When people stop saying stuff like "the Griffon costs 250g", or "i need 600g in mystic coins for that legendary", and start saying "i need to kill that guy" or "i need to do this hard thing", then people will be focused in playing the game, instead of farming for gold, which increases the odds that they're having fun.

 

Talk about generalizing. No I don't think this is right at all. You shouldn't be talking about "people" you should talk about yourself and maybe people like you. I'm willing to wager there's a whole host of people that don't want to do difficult content at all and still want to get shinies. There's a bunch of people who work long hours, and play games to relax instead of bang there head against a wall to get a skin. Your demographic may like working hard to get rewards, but some people have more money and less time and those people end up getting left out, particularly if they add a lot of those rewards.

 

Up until raids were introduced, the only reward I didn't get that I wanted was the mini Liadri. But as the game gets harder and harder to get in game rewards, I become less and less interested, because I don't play games for difficulty, nor do I like to repeat a fight many times to learn it. Different people want different things. I'm not sure that what you're saying is even indicative of some sort of majority.

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"Vayne.8563" said:

> > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > > > > You said JPs are fun and events are fun. What more than _fun_ is the purpose of playing games?

> > > >

> > > > Even the best thing in the world grows stale if you do it often enough?

> > > >

> > > > Although i believe that there's a ton of stuff to do in the game, in the end, if you really take a step back, it ends up mostly being the same thing. You grind/farm stuff for hours and you're rewarded with a skin, not even a great one, but you do it for the AP, to clear that from the list, and while i can still enjoy it, some might not.

> > > > The game sure has deviated from Colin's "Grind isn't fun" statement pre-launch.

> > > > I mean, look at just about any prestige thing in the game. And all is hidden behind a gigantic gold sink, material farm, or something akin to that. Or behind terrible odds on a huge RNG that, again requires a ton of gold, or grind to obtain.

> > > > I really can't remember the last time i obtained something of significance purely out of playing the game well... Maybe the Fractal and PvP legendary backs... And even those required a bit of farming for mats.

> > > >

> > > > All in all, while i still enjoy this game, Arena Net ultimately failed at their objective of making the game dynamic, fun, and rewarding without resorting to the exact same tropes as their competitors.

> > > >

> > >

> > > The reason I go back to old games I've played while in diapers that I've played thousands of times is because I enjoy the games.

> > > The issue here is of course if he's just not having fun now, he should either give it a break or something.

> > > IF as I've said and think, the issue in why he's not having fun no more is because he can't get any stronger and I guess got the skins that's perfect for one character or something and not in the mood to make another, then it's best he just go to another game as he has accomplished the journey/goal that he was set to do and there's nothing more that can be done for him anymore.

> >

> > The reason you go back is because nostalgia. Hence you're "going back" not "kept playing".

> > Again if you read my post, i still enjoy GW2, but the issues of "lack of meaningful rewards" and "replayability" have been prevalent since launch, and have only grown worse and worse with so much emphasis in the gem store. I mean, last skin i "had to have" and actually actively sought out that reward was the Houndskin Mantle. And, while i like that skin, i mean we had to do 20 Achievements to get that.

> > And the "20 Achievements" part is a symptom of the problem. Since like LS2, Arena Net decided on this model of one "meta" achievement that gives the "actual" reward, and kept the same cookie cutter reward structure. I see the appeal for them, they "force" us to play a lot of time for a single reward, which is pretty much the most "bang for their buck" but it gets stale real quick.

> > I mean used to be that we did dungeons for the tokens that we could use for rewards exclusive to that dungeon (Sigils, Runes, Armor sets, Weapon Sets, Pots and Gifts for Legendaries).

> > Now look at fractals, what does it have that is exclusive? A couple of Challenge Mode rewards - several of these rehashed season 1 rewards, an ascended back, Fractal Weapon SKINS, and the legendary back hidden behind a lot of achievements and collections? The rest USED to be exclusive rewards, but now are available outside Fractals, sometimes more easily.

> > Open world, especially the most recent maps, is even more ludicrous, i mean just look at the cost of any ascended item from PoF, then compare it to the cost of buying the same item from a stat selectable vendor and you'll understand just how detached the developers in charge of these things are from the game, and how little they concern themselves with making the game fun and rewarding (because, yes while a few of us might enjoy the game for the game, for A LOT of people rewards are what makes it fun, and the few of us can't sustain the game by ourselves).

> >

> > I'm not proposing i know the solution for this except from the basic common sense (which is often found lacking):

> > - Time gated isn't fun

> > - Grindy isn't fun

> > - Having rewards cost more in one area than in others as a means to keep people grinding in those areas will have the opposite effect

> > - Seeing potential in-game rewards being channeled to the Gemstore is frustrating (frustrating is the polar opposite of fun)

> > - Hard to get must mean HARD TO GET, not EXPENSIVE. When stuff is hard to get it's fun, it's rewarding when you get it. The griffon was almost there, although having a few more activities to do instead of the 250g barrier would be fun.

> > - And this is how you can see if it's working well: When people stop saying stuff like "the Griffon costs 250g", or "i need 600g in mystic coins for that legendary", and start saying "i need to kill that guy" or "i need to do this hard thing", then people will be focused in playing the game, instead of farming for gold, which increases the odds that they're having fun.

>

> Talk about generalizing. No I don't think this is right at all. You shouldn't be talking about "people" you should talk about yourself and maybe people like you. I'm willing to wager there's a whole host of people that don't want to do difficult content at all and still want to get shinies. There's a bunch of people who work long hours, and play games to relax instead of bang there head against a wall to get a skin. Your demographic may like working hard to get rewards, but some people have more money and less time and those people end up getting left out, particularly if they add a lot of those rewards.

>

> Up until raids were introduced, the only reward I didn't get that I wanted was the mini Liadri. But as the game gets harder and harder to get in game rewards, I become less and less interested, because I don't play games for difficulty, nor do I like to repeat a fight many times to learn it. Different people want different things. I'm not sure that what you're saying is even indicative of some sort of majority.

 

That comment takes a lot of "not looking at the rest of the forum". If it was just me, there wouldn't be constant discussions about lack of rewards, and how about PoF Ascendeds are too expensive, or other related discussions. Heck even the whole "mountgate" comes down to that same issue. If the RNG mounts were sold for 150g in-game mountgate wouldn't happen, at least not that big (that's more or less the cost of the gems), and it wouldn't happen at all, if one set of those more basic skins were available as in-game rewards.

I'm not saying you should have Liadri-levels of dificulty (also didn't get that one - underestimated the odds of the event never repeating again :p), but having more rewards less based on gold cost. I mean it takes LONGER to get the 600g for the mystic coins than beating the whole set of raids in the game (after you're proficient), so unless you're **buying** rewards, which makes them **not rewards**, having rewards behind **doing things** instead of **farming money** is better for everyone?

I really don't get your "works long hours" argument. A year ago i was working 12 hours a day, i had less than 2 hours for games, the last thing i wanted to do was to go farm gold. But because so many rewards are gated behind that, i ended up just doing the dailies and closing the game to play XCOM.

[Vayne.8563]

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > @"Vayne.8563" said:

> > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > > > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > > > > > You said JPs are fun and events are fun. What more than _fun_ is the purpose of playing games?

> > > > >

> > > > > Even the best thing in the world grows stale if you do it often enough?

> > > > >

> > > > > Although i believe that there's a ton of stuff to do in the game, in the end, if you really take a step back, it ends up mostly being the same thing. You grind/farm stuff for hours and you're rewarded with a skin, not even a great one, but you do it for the AP, to clear that from the list, and while i can still enjoy it, some might not.

> > > > > The game sure has deviated from Colin's "Grind isn't fun" statement pre-launch.

> > > > > I mean, look at just about any prestige thing in the game. And all is hidden behind a gigantic gold sink, material farm, or something akin to that. Or behind terrible odds on a huge RNG that, again requires a ton of gold, or grind to obtain.

> > > > > I really can't remember the last time i obtained something of significance purely out of playing the game well... Maybe the Fractal and PvP legendary backs... And even those required a bit of farming for mats.

> > > > >

> > > > > All in all, while i still enjoy this game, Arena Net ultimately failed at their objective of making the game dynamic, fun, and rewarding without resorting to the exact same tropes as their competitors.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > The reason I go back to old games I've played while in diapers that I've played thousands of times is because I enjoy the games.

> > > > The issue here is of course if he's just not having fun now, he should either give it a break or something.

> > > > IF as I've said and think, the issue in why he's not having fun no more is because he can't get any stronger and I guess got the skins that's perfect for one character or something and not in the mood to make another, then it's best he just go to another game as he has accomplished the journey/goal that he was set to do and there's nothing more that can be done for him anymore.

> > >

> > > The reason you go back is because nostalgia. Hence you're "going back" not "kept playing".

> > > Again if you read my post, i still enjoy GW2, but the issues of "lack of meaningful rewards" and "replayability" have been prevalent since launch, and have only grown worse and worse with so much emphasis in the gem store. I mean, last skin i "had to have" and actually actively sought out that reward was the Houndskin Mantle. And, while i like that skin, i mean we had to do 20 Achievements to get that.

> > > And the "20 Achievements" part is a symptom of the problem. Since like LS2, Arena Net decided on this model of one "meta" achievement that gives the "actual" reward, and kept the same cookie cutter reward structure. I see the appeal for them, they "force" us to play a lot of time for a single reward, which is pretty much the most "bang for their buck" but it gets stale real quick.

> > > I mean used to be that we did dungeons for the tokens that we could use for rewards exclusive to that dungeon (Sigils, Runes, Armor sets, Weapon Sets, Pots and Gifts for Legendaries).

> > > Now look at fractals, what does it have that is exclusive? A couple of Challenge Mode rewards - several of these rehashed season 1 rewards, an ascended back, Fractal Weapon SKINS, and the legendary back hidden behind a lot of achievements and collections? The rest USED to be exclusive rewards, but now are available outside Fractals, sometimes more easily.

> > > Open world, especially the most recent maps, is even more ludicrous, i mean just look at the cost of any ascended item from PoF, then compare it to the cost of buying the same item from a stat selectable vendor and you'll understand just how detached the developers in charge of these things are from the game, and how little they concern themselves with making the game fun and rewarding (because, yes while a few of us might enjoy the game for the game, for A LOT of people rewards are what makes it fun, and the few of us can't sustain the game by ourselves).

> > >

> > > I'm not proposing i know the solution for this except from the basic common sense (which is often found lacking):

> > > - Time gated isn't fun

> > > - Grindy isn't fun

> > > - Having rewards cost more in one area than in others as a means to keep people grinding in those areas will have the opposite effect

> > > - Seeing potential in-game rewards being channeled to the Gemstore is frustrating (frustrating is the polar opposite of fun)

> > > - Hard to get must mean HARD TO GET, not EXPENSIVE. When stuff is hard to get it's fun, it's rewarding when you get it. The griffon was almost there, although having a few more activities to do instead of the 250g barrier would be fun.

> > > - And this is how you can see if it's working well: When people stop saying stuff like "the Griffon costs 250g", or "i need 600g in mystic coins for that legendary", and start saying "i need to kill that guy" or "i need to do this hard thing", then people will be focused in playing the game, instead of farming for gold, which increases the odds that they're having fun.

> >

> > Talk about generalizing. No I don't think this is right at all. You shouldn't be talking about "people" you should talk about yourself and maybe people like you. I'm willing to wager there's a whole host of people that don't want to do difficult content at all and still want to get shinies. There's a bunch of people who work long hours, and play games to relax instead of bang there head against a wall to get a skin. Your demographic may like working hard to get rewards, but some people have more money and less time and those people end up getting left out, particularly if they add a lot of those rewards.

> >

> > Up until raids were introduced, the only reward I didn't get that I wanted was the mini Liadri. But as the game gets harder and harder to get in game rewards, I become less and less interested, because I don't play games for difficulty, nor do I like to repeat a fight many times to learn it. Different people want different things. I'm not sure that what you're saying is even indicative of some sort of majority.

>

> That comment takes a lot of "not looking at the rest of the forum". If it was just me, there wouldn't be constant discussions about lack of rewards, and how about PoF Ascendeds are too expensive, or other related discussions. Heck even the whole "mountgate" comes down to that same issue. If the RNG mounts were sold for 150g in-game mountgate wouldn't happen, at least not that big (that's more or less the cost of the gems), and it wouldn't happen at all, if one set of those more basic skins were available as in-game rewards.

> I'm not saying you should have Liadri-levels of dificulty (also didn't get that one - underestimated the odds of the event never repeating again :p), but having more rewards less based on gold cost. I mean it takes LONGER to get the 600g for the mystic coins than beating the whole set of raids in the game (after you're proficient), so unless you're **buying** rewards, which makes them **not rewards**, having rewards behind **doing things** instead of **farming money** is better for everyone?

> I really don't get your "works long hours" argument. A year ago i was working 12 hours a day, i had less than 2 hours for games, the last thing i wanted to do was to go farm gold. But because so many rewards are gated behind that, i ended up just doing the dailies and closing the game to play XCOM.

 

But you're playing a reward based game based on the idea that rewards are the only way to play a game. I'm not playing a game picking out rewards and trying to get them. That's not how I play at all. Nor do I have to have things as soon as possible. I do what I want, when I want, because I find it fun. The reward is nice, but it's not what I play for, nor has it ever been what I play for.

 

So for me, buying a mount skin is no different than playing for one, because I have other things I play for. The RNG bit is definitely a turn off to me, and to a lot of people (but not all people). Buying skins however, worked perfectly fine for gliders and there was some complaint about it but not much. It was the RNG that blew that whole argument into the storm it was, not the buying skins.

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"Vayne.8563" said:

> > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > @"Vayne.8563" said:

> > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > > > @"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:

> > > > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > > > > > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > > > > > > You said JPs are fun and events are fun. What more than _fun_ is the purpose of playing games?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Even the best thing in the world grows stale if you do it often enough?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Although i believe that there's a ton of stuff to do in the game, in the end, if you really take a step back, it ends up mostly being the same thing. You grind/farm stuff for hours and you're rewarded with a skin, not even a great one, but you do it for the AP, to clear that from the list, and while i can still enjoy it, some might not.

> > > > > > The game sure has deviated from Colin's "Grind isn't fun" statement pre-launch.

> > > > > > I mean, look at just about any prestige thing in the game. And all is hidden behind a gigantic gold sink, material farm, or something akin to that. Or behind terrible odds on a huge RNG that, again requires a ton of gold, or grind to obtain.

> > > > > > I really can't remember the last time i obtained something of significance purely out of playing the game well... Maybe the Fractal and PvP legendary backs... And even those required a bit of farming for mats.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > All in all, while i still enjoy this game, Arena Net ultimately failed at their objective of making the game dynamic, fun, and rewarding without resorting to the exact same tropes as their competitors.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > The reason I go back to old games I've played while in diapers that I've played thousands of times is because I enjoy the games.

> > > > > The issue here is of course if he's just not having fun now, he should either give it a break or something.

> > > > > IF as I've said and think, the issue in why he's not having fun no more is because he can't get any stronger and I guess got the skins that's perfect for one character or something and not in the mood to make another, then it's best he just go to another game as he has accomplished the journey/goal that he was set to do and there's nothing more that can be done for him anymore.

> > > >

> > > > The reason you go back is because nostalgia. Hence you're "going back" not "kept playing".

> > > > Again if you read my post, i still enjoy GW2, but the issues of "lack of meaningful rewards" and "replayability" have been prevalent since launch, and have only grown worse and worse with so much emphasis in the gem store. I mean, last skin i "had to have" and actually actively sought out that reward was the Houndskin Mantle. And, while i like that skin, i mean we had to do 20 Achievements to get that.

> > > > And the "20 Achievements" part is a symptom of the problem. Since like LS2, Arena Net decided on this model of one "meta" achievement that gives the "actual" reward, and kept the same cookie cutter reward structure. I see the appeal for them, they "force" us to play a lot of time for a single reward, which is pretty much the most "bang for their buck" but it gets stale real quick.

> > > > I mean used to be that we did dungeons for the tokens that we could use for rewards exclusive to that dungeon (Sigils, Runes, Armor sets, Weapon Sets, Pots and Gifts for Legendaries).

> > > > Now look at fractals, what does it have that is exclusive? A couple of Challenge Mode rewards - several of these rehashed season 1 rewards, an ascended back, Fractal Weapon SKINS, and the legendary back hidden behind a lot of achievements and collections? The rest USED to be exclusive rewards, but now are available outside Fractals, sometimes more easily.

> > > > Open world, especially the most recent maps, is even more ludicrous, i mean just look at the cost of any ascended item from PoF, then compare it to the cost of buying the same item from a stat selectable vendor and you'll understand just how detached the developers in charge of these things are from the game, and how little they concern themselves with making the game fun and rewarding (because, yes while a few of us might enjoy the game for the game, for A LOT of people rewards are what makes it fun, and the few of us can't sustain the game by ourselves).

> > > >

> > > > I'm not proposing i know the solution for this except from the basic common sense (which is often found lacking):

> > > > - Time gated isn't fun

> > > > - Grindy isn't fun

> > > > - Having rewards cost more in one area than in others as a means to keep people grinding in those areas will have the opposite effect

> > > > - Seeing potential in-game rewards being channeled to the Gemstore is frustrating (frustrating is the polar opposite of fun)

> > > > - Hard to get must mean HARD TO GET, not EXPENSIVE. When stuff is hard to get it's fun, it's rewarding when you get it. The griffon was almost there, although having a few more activities to do instead of the 250g barrier would be fun.

> > > > - And this is how you can see if it's working well: When people stop saying stuff like "the Griffon costs 250g", or "i need 600g in mystic coins for that legendary", and start saying "i need to kill that guy" or "i need to do this hard thing", then people will be focused in playing the game, instead of farming for gold, which increases the odds that they're having fun.

> > >

> > > Talk about generalizing. No I don't think this is right at all. You shouldn't be talking about "people" you should talk about yourself and maybe people like you. I'm willing to wager there's a whole host of people that don't want to do difficult content at all and still want to get shinies. There's a bunch of people who work long hours, and play games to relax instead of bang there head against a wall to get a skin. Your demographic may like working hard to get rewards, but some people have more money and less time and those people end up getting left out, particularly if they add a lot of those rewards.

> > >

> > > Up until raids were introduced, the only reward I didn't get that I wanted was the mini Liadri. But as the game gets harder and harder to get in game rewards, I become less and less interested, because I don't play games for difficulty, nor do I like to repeat a fight many times to learn it. Different people want different things. I'm not sure that what you're saying is even indicative of some sort of majority.

> >

> > That comment takes a lot of "not looking at the rest of the forum". If it was just me, there wouldn't be constant discussions about lack of rewards, and how about PoF Ascendeds are too expensive, or other related discussions. Heck even the whole "mountgate" comes down to that same issue. If the RNG mounts were sold for 150g in-game mountgate wouldn't happen, at least not that big (that's more or less the cost of the gems), and it wouldn't happen at all, if one set of those more basic skins were available as in-game rewards.

> > I'm not saying you should have Liadri-levels of dificulty (also didn't get that one - underestimated the odds of the event never repeating again :p), but having more rewards less based on gold cost. I mean it takes LONGER to get the 600g for the mystic coins than beating the whole set of raids in the game (after you're proficient), so unless you're **buying** rewards, which makes them **not rewards**, having rewards behind **doing things** instead of **farming money** is better for everyone?

> > I really don't get your "works long hours" argument. A year ago i was working 12 hours a day, i had less than 2 hours for games, the last thing i wanted to do was to go farm gold. But because so many rewards are gated behind that, i ended up just doing the dailies and closing the game to play XCOM.

>

> But you're playing a reward based game based on the idea that rewards are the only way to play a game. I'm not playing a game picking out rewards and trying to get them. That's not how I play at all. Nor do I have to have things as soon as possible. I do what I want, when I want, because I find it fun. The reward is nice, but it's not what I play for, nor has it ever been what I play for.

>

> So for me, buying a mount skin is no different than playing for one, because I have other things I play for. The RNG bit is definitely a turn off to me, and to a lot of people (but not all people). Buying skins however, worked perfectly fine for gliders and there was some complaint about it but not much. It was the RNG that blew that whole argument into the storm it was, not the buying skins.

 

I do the same, i also don't care much about rewards. BUT if you take a sound bite out of the game community, you'll understand. If you get to know how most players nowadays play, you'll understand that a huge part of gaming is the pavlovian reflex "do this, get a treat". That's why there's always discussion about these issues... That's why Arena Net misguidedly keeps stepping up the grind requirements.

That's why instead of fixing PvP gear costs when they were too cheap by simply increasing the price but keeping the same currencies, they decided to make crafting a requirement to buy ascended items.

 

[Kako.1930]

I like to run around and talk to NPCs, kill things, and find pretty spots to take screenshots. When I'm feeling extra lazy I run around and gather stuff and do dailies, and when I'm looking for something more challenging I open up the achievements tab and go for one I haven't gotten yet. I still want to get the legendary trinket and the Bifrost though, so I haven't quite reached the point where there's nothing else cosmetic that I want. Even if I do, there will be plenty of things I still want to do, including the story.

[Despond.2174]

When you're trying to gear every prof and build ascended, alongside farming, spvp, wvwv, fracs, others dailies, sitting around playing fashion wars, there's not enough hours for me at the moment. I don't feel I am punished for my effort, the gear I am working hard towards will always be current tier.

 

Sometimes I'll just stare @ Eternity's footfalls, blade trail and blade changing angles to see the inter-dimension, then I'll realize I've been doing this for 15min straight.