Torolan.5816 Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 I am inclined to believe the wvw map completion was abandoned in a time where it was the norm that servers like Underworld were alone and only green once in a blue moon and had no realistic chance to ever take the green homeland main keep or the green EB keep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haleydawn.3764 Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 > @"Torolan.5816" said: > I am inclined to believe the wvw map completion was abandoned in a time where it was the norm that servers like Underworld were alone and only green once in a blue moon and had no realistic chance to ever take the green homeland main keep or the green EB keep. WvW map completion requirements were removed because Anet wanted to add more maps and rotate them. No other reason. Just because it benefit people who didn’t do/like WvW, or were on low population servers, doesn’t mean they were the reason for the change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taygus.4571 Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > @"Noa.7490" said: > > Probably. Truth is, players should not have to resort to those kind of tricks when a simple change from champion to veteran would do just fine. > > Probably. But one should also consider that making changes to the game that reduces the need for players to group up and help each other may be beneficial in each individual case for that particular player but detrimental to the game overall. If players already aren't grouping up, it's just causing aggravation though. Anet needs to tone down maps that are just never going to pull enough players. This is going to be an increasing problem as more maps are added. I agree with the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justine.6351 Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > > > > @"Nick Lentz.6982" said: > > > > > Just do some WvW and use the tokens :p > > > > > > > > The humorous part is that pvers cried and cried about having to do wvw completion so anet removed those maps' as requirements. Now they don't even want to do pve champions that a good player with a good build can solo. > > > > > > Actually, I don’t think thats why WvW requirements were removed at all. WvW requirements were removed because they made a new WvW map and were planning to not only make more maps but to rotate among the different maps. Which means that completing WvW could be much harder as someone could be partway through WvW completion only to have the maps they were working on removed and changed to a new map. So I think it was removed to keep players from unfair WvW requirements. So not only is your remark an unfair characterization of PvE players, WvW completion has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. > > > > Because pvers were not crying to have wvw map completion removed as a requirment? I'm a wvwer and I can probably solo those champs on a pewpew hammer rev. I've done map completion twice, once on a mesmer forever ago and once on ranger/druid last year. Without looking, I'm willing to bet you can kill the adds, lure the champ away and quick get back to channel the hero point without having to even kill it. > > PvE players may have cried to get WvW requirements removed but your statement said ANet removed the requirements for that reason, which is incorrect. If the only reason you are going to post is not to be helpful but to sneer at a class of players at least get your facts right. You assume that your reason is correct too so... and I did post a way to do these hero points so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Healix.5819 Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 > @"Justine.6351" said: > You assume that your reason is correct too so... and I did post a way to do these hero points so... When they announced their plans to remove WvW from world completion, their reasoning was to essentially keep the game modes separate. The new map could have been a factor, but they had likely already planned on removing it very early on. It was simply never a good idea, with both sides complaining about it. PvEers were being forced into PvP and WvWers suffered because of it, since the PvEers were essentially AFKers. ArenaNet only included WvW in world completion to encourage participation, but by only requiring map completion, they were only encouraging to avoid it. The original legendaries were always meant to require WvW for example, but they didn't actually require it until the reward tracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just a flesh wound.3589 Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 > @"Justine.6351" said: > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > > > > > @"Nick Lentz.6982" said: > > > > > > Just do some WvW and use the tokens :p > > > > > > > > > > The humorous part is that pvers cried and cried about having to do wvw completion so anet removed those maps' as requirements. Now they don't even want to do pve champions that a good player with a good build can solo. > > > > > > > > Actually, I don’t think thats why WvW requirements were removed at all. WvW requirements were removed because they made a new WvW map and were planning to not only make more maps but to rotate among the different maps. Which means that completing WvW could be much harder as someone could be partway through WvW completion only to have the maps they were working on removed and changed to a new map. So I think it was removed to keep players from unfair WvW requirements. So not only is your remark an unfair characterization of PvE players, WvW completion has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. > > > > > > Because pvers were not crying to have wvw map completion removed as a requirment? I'm a wvwer and I can probably solo those champs on a pewpew hammer rev. I've done map completion twice, once on a mesmer forever ago and once on ranger/druid last year. Without looking, I'm willing to bet you can kill the adds, lure the champ away and quick get back to channel the hero point without having to even kill it. > > > > PvE players may have cried to get WvW requirements removed but your statement said ANet removed the requirements for that reason, which is incorrect. If the only reason you are going to post is not to be helpful but to sneer at a class of players at least get your facts right. > > You assume that your reason is correct too so... and I did post a way to do these hero points so... They [announced the new map](https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/essential-elements-of-the-new-borderlands/) 4 days after they said they were removing WvW map completion requirements and in that announcement they said they would be bringing back the old map eventually, in other words rotating the maps. Which means that there would be people who would have maps unfinished when the maps were swapped out, both with the new borderlands being put in and when the alpine was returned. > The humorous part is that pvers cried and cried about having to do wvw completion so anet removed those maps' as requirements. Now they don't even want to do pve champions that a good player with a good build can solo. A vague comment about good builds does not make this a helpful post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Lentz.6982 Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > > > > > > @"Nick Lentz.6982" said: > > > > > > > Just do some WvW and use the tokens :p > > > > > > > > > > > > The humorous part is that pvers cried and cried about having to do wvw completion so anet removed those maps' as requirements. Now they don't even want to do pve champions that a good player with a good build can solo. > > > > > > > > > > Actually, I don’t think thats why WvW requirements were removed at all. WvW requirements were removed because they made a new WvW map and were planning to not only make more maps but to rotate among the different maps. Which means that completing WvW could be much harder as someone could be partway through WvW completion only to have the maps they were working on removed and changed to a new map. So I think it was removed to keep players from unfair WvW requirements. So not only is your remark an unfair characterization of PvE players, WvW completion has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. > > > > > > > > Because pvers were not crying to have wvw map completion removed as a requirment? I'm a wvwer and I can probably solo those champs on a pewpew hammer rev. I've done map completion twice, once on a mesmer forever ago and once on ranger/druid last year. Without looking, I'm willing to bet you can kill the adds, lure the champ away and quick get back to channel the hero point without having to even kill it. > > > > > > PvE players may have cried to get WvW requirements removed but your statement said ANet removed the requirements for that reason, which is incorrect. If the only reason you are going to post is not to be helpful but to sneer at a class of players at least get your facts right. > > > > You assume that your reason is correct too so... and I did post a way to do these hero points so... > > They [announced the new map](https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/essential-elements-of-the-new-borderlands/) 4 days after they said they were removing WvW map completion requirements and in that announcement they said they would be bringing back the old map eventually, in other words rotating the maps. Which means that there would be people who would have maps unfinished when the maps were swapped out, both with the new borderlands being put in and when the alpine was returned. > > > The humorous part is that pvers cried and cried about having to do wvw completion so anet removed those maps' as requirements. Now they don't even want to do pve champions that a good player with a good build can solo. > > A vague comment about good builds does not make this a helpful post. When it takes 6 months to finally get that one poi to finish map completion, yeah its a valid reason to cry. Its kinda like how alllllll WvW players cried because they had to do hero challenges for elite specs, the irony in it. Arbitrary rules to fight a champion solo for a hero point is arbitrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffball.8307 Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Core champs are just HP sponges. They barely have any mechanics at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstralDusk.1670 Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 I think it would be a good idea making them all a little more difficult and bumping them up to 10 points. But that's the exact opposite of what you're looking for, so I got nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menadena.7482 Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 It is strange that they are only worth 1/10 of the ones in the expansions. They are usually easier but a few are a pain in the neck if you solo them so are not always 10 times faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffball.8307 Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 > @"Menadena.7482" said: > It is strange that they are only worth 1/10 of the ones in the expansions. They are usually easier but a few are a pain in the neck if you solo them so are not always 10 times faster. I suspect the increased rewards for HCs in the expacs is a result of space conerns; you don't have room for 300 HCs. To compensate for that, I in turn suspect they bumped up the difficulty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarktastic.1027 Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 > @"Healix.5819" said: > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > You assume that your reason is correct too so... and I did post a way to do these hero points so... > > When they announced their plans to remove WvW from world completion, their reasoning was to essentially keep the game modes separate. > > The new map could have been a factor, but they had likely already planned on removing it very early on. It was simply never a good idea, with both sides complaining about it. PvEers were being forced into PvP and WvWers suffered because of it, since the PvEers were essentially AFKers. ArenaNet only included WvW in world completion to encourage participation, but by only requiring map completion, they were only encouraging to avoid it. The original legendaries were always meant to require WvW for example, but they didn't actually require it until the reward tracks. > > The original legendary weapons did require wvw participation before achievement point rewards came around. Not only in earning the gift of exploration, but also in earning the 500 badges of honor for the gift of battle. People often forget that badges of honor were once only earned from actively participating in wvw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noa.7490 Posted December 24, 2017 Author Share Posted December 24, 2017 > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > @"Noa.7490" said: > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > @"Noa.7490" said: > > > > Probably. Truth is, players should not have to resort to those kind of tricks when a simple change from champion to veteran would do just fine. > > > > > > Probably. But one should also consider that making changes to the game that reduces the need for players to group up and help each other may be beneficial in each individual case for that particular player but detrimental to the game overall. > > > > The reality is that the Orr maps are severely depopulated since HoT and PoF came out. Apart from certain metas, Orr is empty so I believe that the difficulty pertaining certain areas should be adjusted by taking that in consideration. > > Unless someone needs that hero point right away they can wait till the Orr map has a daily event requirement. At that time there should be plenty of people on the map, some of which will need that hero point also. Even only one more person would be a help and others might join in to get the champ bag from killing it. Like I said previously, I managed to get on the Malchor meta event and ask for help as soon as it was done and no one offered to help. That particular area is tricky because the area is very enclosed and you have to fight a champ and a vet who closely orbit one another. The other risen around notwithstanding. There's absolutely no need to have a champ there, let alone to guard a hero point that's only worth 1 point. Also, yes, the token are good but they give you a HP randomly, not the one you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seera.5916 Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 > @"Noa.7490" said: > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > @"Noa.7490" said: > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > @"Noa.7490" said: > > > > > Probably. Truth is, players should not have to resort to those kind of tricks when a simple change from champion to veteran would do just fine. > > > > > > > > Probably. But one should also consider that making changes to the game that reduces the need for players to group up and help each other may be beneficial in each individual case for that particular player but detrimental to the game overall. > > > > > > The reality is that the Orr maps are severely depopulated since HoT and PoF came out. Apart from certain metas, Orr is empty so I believe that the difficulty pertaining certain areas should be adjusted by taking that in consideration. > > > > Unless someone needs that hero point right away they can wait till the Orr map has a daily event requirement. At that time there should be plenty of people on the map, some of which will need that hero point also. Even only one more person would be a help and others might join in to get the champ bag from killing it. > > Like I said previously, I managed to get on the Malchor meta event and ask for help as soon as it was done and no one offered to help. That particular area is tricky because the area is very enclosed and you have to fight a champ and a vet who closely orbit one another. The other risen around notwithstanding. There's absolutely no need to have a champ there, let alone to guard a hero point that's only worth 1 point. Also, yes, the token are good but they give you a HP randomly, not the one you need. But if you do all of the ones except the ones you have trouble with and then use the tokens, then they'll go towards the ones that you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silencio.2604 Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 > @"Noa.7490" said: > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > @"Noa.7490" said: > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said: > > > > > @"Noa.7490" said: > > > > > Probably. Truth is, players should not have to resort to those kind of tricks when a simple change from champion to veteran would do just fine. > > > > > > > > Probably. But one should also consider that making changes to the game that reduces the need for players to group up and help each other may be beneficial in each individual case for that particular player but detrimental to the game overall. > > > > > > The reality is that the Orr maps are severely depopulated since HoT and PoF came out. Apart from certain metas, Orr is empty so I believe that the difficulty pertaining certain areas should be adjusted by taking that in consideration. > > > > Unless someone needs that hero point right away they can wait till the Orr map has a daily event requirement. At that time there should be plenty of people on the map, some of which will need that hero point also. Even only one more person would be a help and others might join in to get the champ bag from killing it. > > Like I said previously, I managed to get on the Malchor meta event and ask for help as soon as it was done and no one offered to help. That particular area is tricky because the area is very enclosed and you have to fight a champ and a vet who closely orbit one another. The other risen around notwithstanding. There's absolutely no need to have a champ there, let alone to guard a hero point that's only worth 1 point. Also, yes, the token are good but they give you a HP randomly, not the one you need. That's the one where if you are stealthed you can just commune with it. So better to just ask 1 thief or whatever other class can help. But agree with you they could change that, now that population is lower there. Tried to solo that one too and didn't go so well, luckily I am a thief.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artemis.6781 Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 I'm on most days. Drop me a line when you're on and I'll help you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoSundown.5419 Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 > @"Menadena.7482" said: > It is strange that they are only worth 1/10 of the ones in the expansions. They are usually easier but a few are a pain in the neck if you solo them so are not always 10 times faster. It's likely that 10 points per challenge in HoT was due to ANet wanting people to do HoT content to unlock Elite specs. When ANet revamped the way characters unlocked skills and traits in core, players who had done world completion and WvW had more than 200 Hero Points left over. If you remember, when HoT debuted the Elite's required 400 points to unlock, and there are 400 points available in the 40 HoT challenges. Of course, ANet rolled that back to 250 points for Elite unlock due to player complaints. Whatever ANet intended, the number of points in HoT challenges has a lot more to do with devaluing the leftover core points than it does with HC difficulty in HoT. After all, it's possible to unlock an entire 250 point elite spec in Hot or PoF without seeing a champion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Healix.5819 Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 > @"Fluffball.8307" said: > I suspect the increased rewards for HCs in the expacs is a result of space conerns; you don't have room for 300 HCs. To compensate for that, I in turn suspect they bumped up the difficulty. Making them group content was likely because they simply wanted to slow progression. They may have also thought that it wouldn't be a problem, considering HoT was designed coming out of season 1, which was temporary and thus always active, which began the zerg-oriented design. Overall however, HoT was an obvious second attempt to appeal to the endgame crowd who they lost back in 2012, after they rushed through the game only to find nothing. > @"Quarktastic.1027" said: > The original legendary weapons did require wvw participation before achievement point rewards came around. Not only in earning the gift of exploration, but also in earning the 500 badges of honor for the gift of battle. People often forget that badges of honor were once only earned from actively participating in wvw. Depends on what you consider actively participating. They could be earned without ever actually PvPing, as they were rewards from the champion events, map completion and the jumping puzzle for example. It wasn't until roughly a year after launch however that the achievement point rewards were introduced, which is when they really became trivial to acquire for PvE players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayumi Spender.1082 Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017  Someone explain to me how the hell I'm supposed to get this stupid thing when I see no way to even do the stupid event to unlock it? I've been trying to get one stupid hero point for 4 hours and now I'm beyond mad. And I don't mean just angry. I must be mad to still be trying to get this kitten thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neworder.7981 Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 There is NO event just kill the jelly fish( if needed) and commune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayumi Spender.1082 Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 > @"Neworder.7981" said: > There is NO event just kill the jelly fish( if needed) and commune. > Wrong Hero Point. That's not the jellyfish one. I got it through glitching though. Now to deal with that same one in Cursed Shore. Will deal with it tomorrow as I don't have another 4 hours to waste right now on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercury ranique.2170 Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 I think the cathedrals in Cursed shore can be done with a spy kit. Atleast Melandru is. I'm not 100% sure about Grenth. But Cursed shore still has an active champion train that even has ads on the LFG (atleast in EU) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neworder.7981 Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 If Verdance is uncontested then it's a simple commune, The 'Grenth' as well, although it's handy to use a mount to get to it, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunTzu.4513 Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 If someone needs help on the EU Servers to do this HP's, send me an ingame massage. If i'm not too busy i can lend you a hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neworder.7981 Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 Same here, if EU message me ingame and I'll lend a hand.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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