Why did PoF turn the Commander into such a dingus?

[Mewcifer.5198]

> @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> Nor do I wholly disagree with the way the Commander is portrayed - as I've mentioned repeatedly.

>

> My "beef" is with us never getting any explanation as to why this sudden shift in personality occurs.

 

I'm not sure what you expect. Did you want your player character to turn to the camera and be like "You see, I would spend a lot more time around here helping the little guys, but I am so emotionally drained that I can't bother, I really need to sacrifice some of the small things in order to put all my remaining energy into killing the big baddie causing most the problems"

 

Your "explanation" is THE ENTIRE STORY UP TO THIS POINT!

[MarshallLaw.9260]

There's one reasonable explanation. It's the change in diet. Elonian cuisine is clearly heavy on the carbs which is negatively impacting the commanders mood.

 

quote: https://www.healthline.com/health/mood-food-can-what-you-eat-affect-your-happiness#mood-foods

 

"The biggest bad mood culprits are refined carbohydrates, such as sugar. The simple sugars that are in junk foods, such as candy and soda, as well as in everyday foods, such as fruit juice, syrup, and jams, can cause your blood sugar to go up and down like a rollercoaster. Refined white starches such as white rice, white bread, and crackers can have the same effect. Blood sugar spikes and drops can leave you with a short-lived burst of energy followed by a tired, **cranky feeling**."

 

Solution - should have brought a packed lunch from home.

[Lord Kreegan.8123]

I's called "different writers" and "different level design team"... probably guys and gals who themselves had not played the prior expansion.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"MarshallLaw.9260" said:

> There's one reasonable explanation. It's the change in diet. Elonian cuisine is clearly heavy on the carbs which is negatively impacting the commanders mood.

>

> quote: https://www.healthline.com/health/mood-food-can-what-you-eat-affect-your-happiness#mood-foods

>

> "The biggest bad mood culprits are refined carbohydrates, such as sugar. The simple sugars that are in junk foods, such as candy and soda, as well as in everyday foods, such as fruit juice, syrup, and jams, can cause your blood sugar to go up and down like a rollercoaster. Refined white starches such as white rice, white bread, and crackers can have the same effect. Blood sugar spikes and drops can leave you with a short-lived burst of energy followed by a tired, **cranky feeling**."

>

> Solution - should have brought a packed lunch from home.

TL;DR after Trahearne died, its simply no fun eating vegetables anymore.

 

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

Honestly? I blame Braham.

Not just because I hate him, but because the first time I heard my character actually got pissed/annoyed/angry sounding like she was going to jam a knife into someone's eye socket and fling the body over a cliff into quicksand full of sand sharks was when someone just mentioned Braham's name after all the crap he's done and she's in PG terms said she "Frankly my dear, I don't give a Braham."

[Tenrai Senshi.2017]

To be honest, I think the general situation in Path of Fire is different to that in Heart of Thorns. The elder dragons, while being a very serious threat, were also one that has been slow in the brewing, so to speak. There was no immediate world ending catastrophe about to happen, so much as the potential for it to occur further down the line as time progressed and the Elder Dragons expanded their territory and influence. You could say the Pact might have even acted prematurely in their attack against Mordremoth, where they should have rather taken the time to plan and learn more about its weaknesses and strengths beforehand while they still had the opportunity to do so (I do understand they were trying to get the upper hand with a preemptive strike, but it backfired).

 

This is not the case in Path of Fire though. In Path of Fire, the commander is aware of a far more immediate world ending catastrophe, in the sense that if Balthazaar was to kill a single elder Dragon, the world would immediately be doomed beyond any hope of salvaging. The sense of urgency in Path of Fire, therefore, is much more prominent. It wasn't a problem that could be waited out patiently, or solved through time, research or planning. It was a 'do or die' situation. So, you could say that where the battle against the Elder Dragons has been more of a war of attrition, the battle with Balthazaar by comparison is much more urgently paced affair.

 

With that in mind, I guess it's natural for the commander to suffer from a sense of anxiety, paranoia and lack of patience when it comes to dealing with the situation. If the world is about to quite literally explode, but you have people getting in your way of trying to save if because of archaic reasons, then naturally your fuse box is going to light up like a Christmas tree, whether that sentiment would have been justified under normal circumstances or not. Lol.

[Rauderi.8706]

Without trying to dive into lore or the Commander's psychology...

 

Snark.

The writers love to pass sass, and it was all over PoF's writing. Even before it with the Livia story arc. A snappy Commander passes more snippy, pithy lines to amuse and delight!

 

We get it, ANet. You can write one-liners. They can even be cute, sometimes.

But can we start writing real people as characters now?

[trianglecubed.3750]

> @"Tenrai Senshi.2017" said:

> To be honest, I think the general situation in Path of Fire is different to that in Heart of Thorns. The elder dragons, while being a very serious threat, were also one that has been slow in the brewing, so to speak. There was no immediate world ending catastrophe about to happen, so much as the potential for it to occur further down the line as time progressed and the Elder Dragons expanded their territory and influence. You could say the Pact might have even acted prematurely in their attack against Mordremoth, where they should have rather taken the time to plan and learn more about its weaknesses and strengths beforehand while they still had the opportunity to do so (I do understand they were trying to get the upper hand with a preemptive strike, but it backfired).

>

> This is not the case in Path of Fire though. In Path of Fire, the commander is aware of a far more immediate world ending catastrophe, in the sense that if Balthazaar was to kill a single elder Dragon, the world would immediately be doomed beyond any hope of salvaging. The sense of urgency in Path of Fire, therefore, is much more prominent. It wasn't a problem that could be waited out patiently, or solved through time, research or planning. It was a 'do or die' situation. So, you could say that where the battle against the Elder Dragons has been more of a war of attrition, the battle with Balthazaar by comparison is much more urgently paced affair.

>

> With that in mind, I guess it's natural for the commander to suffer from a sense of anxiety, paranoia and lack of patience when it comes to dealing with the situation. If the world is about to quite literally explode, but you have people getting in your way of trying to save if because of archaic reasons, then naturally your fuse box is going to light up like a Christmas tree, whether that sentiment would have been justified under normal circumstances or not. Lol.

 

This. This is exactly the reason why we didn't go through the trouble of getting the gang together, why we didn't try to strong-arm Logan into pushing the Pact our way and helping us, and why we came with next to no one to do this.

 

If there's one thing that PoF has taught me it's that it doesn't matter WHO is with you, it only matters WHAT gear you have. In this case, Sohothin. I literally killed a god with that sword. In my hands, it seemed to be immensely more powerful than in the Tribune's. Clearly, the only reason we ever need help doing anything is that everyone is keeping the super special weapons to themselves and not letting us actually have them. Let us keep Sohothin and I bet we could get real darn close to killing a dragon on our own, regardless of whether or not we're supposed to do that anymore.

 

The commander's being short with everyone simply because the commander isn't the hero, instead, they're treated like the invincible minor minion, the one always called upon to do the impossible yet the one that is taxed, billed, and charged every micrometer of the way. There's always people getting in the way, requiring more of this or for us to go handle a few of these.. Etc, etc. Heck, I even have a feeling that the Commander -liked- playing Morden Crescent because everyone was so, in a word, helpful. If they couldn't help immediately they gave the commander a direct reason why and once that was solved.. boom. That was it. The Commander wasn't bothered with logistics, they weren't bothered with rescue parties, they weren't treated like all of their "civilized allies" treat them, as the invincible minor minion that is sent out on all of the tasks, regardless of importance. At this point, death is cheap for the Commander as despite all the things they've done only one (super cheap) thing has been able to do the deed so far and really that was only because of being railroaded into the story station.

 

So, yeah. The Commander keeps getting called upon to do the impossible, only gets minor recognition from their "guild mates," and key story NPCs, and otherwise gets treated like heck. I mean the town NPCs talk more about Kas and Jor than they do the person that's saved their lives a bajillion times. I mean look at all your "companions," their lot in life seems to have improved immensely since they've started traveling around with you, heck even Canach has won, what was it, about 500 gold from the bet on you? What does the Commander get? More missions, more responsibility, more people whining at them, people demanding speeches and inspiration.. The commander does everything, gets nothing for it, and is constantly in a state of bouncing from one legitimately apocalyptic circumstance to the other because no one else seems to be able to do it.

 

This feels a lot like the Opposite of what I felt WoW's problem was around the time of Wrath of the Lich King. At that point in WoW the player character just felt like a generic soldier NPC. Lots of tasks and missions, but they were paid well. However they weren't important to the story, no one really relied on them because they were just another one of many. In this game, however, we're not relied upon for only world-ending stuff, but for legitimately everything as if no one can handle doing anything, this leads to us doing all of the stuff that generic soldiers should be doing.. but not getting paid a darn thing because "The hero doesn't accept payment" and then turning around and literally saving the world and countless lives and then, turning around again, to help a little boy put sandfish back into their poorly constructed pen. The Commander's attitude is completely warranted. Does all of the important stuff, all of the unimportant stuff, and gets next to nothing for any of it. So, yeah. The Commander's becoming an impatient grouch. I mean who can blame them? Even the one time they were invited to a beautiful "beach resort" type place it was full of giant nigh-invulnerable super-crabs... which they, then, had to proceed to kill to make everyone safe, of course.

 

No vacation, no real downtime, no real thanks, no real recognition other than "You're the sap that can do everything, so go do it all," in five years would make anyone an impatient grump.

[Soggy Biscuit.9372]

This is why I've stopped paying any attention to the story entirely as I'm not at all a fan of the unfunny hulky dingus direction they are going with it. It was around the Lake Doric release that they started to coin our char with the word "smash" (which every NPC autistically screams at us wherever we go - "Commander, shmash!" "Shmash away, Commander!") around which time it was obvious that they were fully intending to turn it into a muscle-brain drone of the deus ex Taimi.

[arenta.2953]

> @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> Yeah, dingus isn't the word I want to use - just imagine another word starting with that letter.

>

> In HoT he cared deeply for the plight of the "common man" affected by Modremoth. The plight of the natives in each of the HoT map seemed to be a big concern for him.

>

> In PoF he is rude and condescending instead. He berates a guard for not wanting to charge head-long into camp of Forged soldiers. Really?

>

> His general attitude and tone of voice also changed to reflect this - instead of the noble Norn I'm used to he has turned into a brutish oaf!

>

> What happened to my character?!

 

guessing it depends on your race....

 

my female asura's dialogue was same as ever. smart, collected, slightly snarky, and confident. props to the voice actor, the voice and words fit the story perfectly

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

That's true. Given the race, it may be more in line to an asura, for example, than maybe a sylvari. After all, the dialogue is the same no matter what.

[Zedek.8932]

Excelsior.

 

Not sure what _exactly_ you are talking about, maybe I am not far enough in the story or maybe the Asura have been voiced more, uh, "stable" and less emotional. Then there is even differences in voice acting through the available languages.

 

I wanted to get a voice sample of Patrick Bach (German Asura) once and recorded an early mission of PoF, I think it's right before entering the Casino when you have to ask "Quais" (I am not on the PC, so I can not replay the clip but at least thats how his name sounds like) about some information and he, that NPC, barked back like: "No, buzz off" and then my Asura goes into a deep voice and calmly says (wonky translation from German) : "Listen, I am here to kill the god of war. And if little people like you step in my way/interfer, I will swat them like flies as well, understand?" and I was like Wowowowow, finally my Asura get to realtalk!

 

I found it a bit odd that my HoT troops consisted of a bunch of guys either waiting for commands (...eh) or doing random BS as if you are a kindergarden teacher and kept calm and friendly all day long. I am being shouted at by Tonn's wife whenever I meet her, trying to keep sane, had a near-death experience nobody could understood and that list goes on and on and on. I would appreciate a rougher commander a lot.

 

[OneYenShort.3189]

> @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> In PoF he is rude and condescending instead. He berates a guard for not wanting to charge head-long into camp of Forged soldiers. Really?

 

*scratches head* I don't recall hearing that myself. (and I could very well just have forgotten such.) Racial thing?

 

[Oglaf.1074]

> @"arenta.2953" said:

 

> Your "explanation" is THE ENTIRE STORY UP TO THIS POINT!

 

Yeah, no it is not. There is no indication that this shift of personality is brewing under the surface of our Commander through-out HoT or pre-PoF LW episodes.

 

It just happens as soon as your Commander sets one foot on Elonian sand - as if he/she stepped on a thorny plant infecting them with Dingusbag Syndrome.

 

[azureai.9764]

> @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> That's true. Given the race, it may be more in line to an asura, for example, than maybe a sylvari. After all, the dialogue is the same no matter what.

 

And this is one of the many problems with the writing as of late. How my charr commander responded to Balthazar's "The Gods have abandoned you!" without immediately proclaiming "THE CHARR NEED NO GODS" is utterly lorebreaking. They already have the line recorded!

 

~~Or at least have him say my response of "I don't give a fuck."~~

[arenta.2953]

> @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > @"Mewcifer.5198" said:

>

> > Your "explanation" is THE ENTIRE STORY UP TO THIS POINT!

>

> Yeah, no it is not. There is no indication that this shift of personality is brewing under the surface of our Commander through-out HoT or pre-PoF LW episodes.

>

> It just happens as soon as your Commander sets one foot on Elonian sand - as if he/she stepped on a thorny plant infecting them with Dingusbag Syndrome.

>

 

uh.....i think you quoted the wrong person for that.....quote.

 

it should be Mewcifer.5198

 

 

 

[Oglaf.1074]

> @"arenta.2953" said:

> > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > > @"Mewcifer.5198" said:

> >

> > > Your "explanation" is THE ENTIRE STORY UP TO THIS POINT!

> >

> > Yeah, no it is not. There is no indication that this shift of personality is brewing under the surface of our Commander through-out HoT or pre-PoF LW episodes.

> >

> > It just happens as soon as your Commander sets one foot on Elonian sand - as if he/she stepped on a thorny plant infecting them with Dingusbag Syndrome.

> >

>

> uh.....i think you quoted the wrong person for that.....quote.

>

> it should be Mewcifer.5198

>

>

>

 

Probably. Not really used to how anet does their forum code.

 

My apologies if the wrong person was quoted.

[Sojourner.4621]

> @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > At the end of the day, your beef is with outward expression of emotion, something people have been complaining about for various races and scenarios since nearly day 1.

>

> No.

>

> My "beef" is with this sudden change in character of my, well, character without any rime or reason behind it. I'd be first in line to support my main character finally throwing his hands up and saying something along the lines of the famous quote from Lethal Weapon: "I'm too old for this kitten!"

>

> But that **doesn't** happen. Your character just magically becomes a gruff, cynical dingus **without** any explanation as to why.

>

>

 

It's not that sudden though. It really starts in the Living World story... you start to see it for the first time after Eir's Funeral... sure he keeps trying to be compassionate, especially towards Braham, but Braham keeps giving him crap and blaming him for Eir's death... the cynicism starts growing from there... people keep blaming him for things that are beyond his control, like putting Jormag and Primordus to sleep instead of letting them be destroyed, and more and more he keeps running in to situations where the compassion just won't do it anymore. At the entrance to Vabbi the Commander has a poignant conversation with an Order of Shadows agent that displays what the real problem with compassion towards the Elonians. It's not that he doesn't have it... he does, but he also has a bit of an "enforced will" hero complex. There are people in Elona who don't want to be saved, who genuinely believe that Joko is their god who controls the cycle of life and death, etc. All of this IS in fact talked about in the PoF story. He's not just compassion fatigued, he has his compassion thrown in his face over and over again, not just in Path of Fire but also in the Living World story leading up to it. The cynicism has grown over time, and has really come to a head in the expac, but it was definitely starting to build well before PoF launched.

[Mewcifer.5198]

> @"Sojourner.4621" said:

> > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > > At the end of the day, your beef is with outward expression of emotion, something people have been complaining about for various races and scenarios since nearly day 1.

> >

> > No.

> >

> > My "beef" is with this sudden change in character of my, well, character without any rime or reason behind it. I'd be first in line to support my main character finally throwing his hands up and saying something along the lines of the famous quote from Lethal Weapon: "I'm too old for this kitten!"

> >

> > But that **doesn't** happen. Your character just magically becomes a gruff, cynical dingus **without** any explanation as to why.

> >

> >

>

> It's not that sudden though. It really starts in the Living World story... you start to see it for the first time after Eir's Funeral... sure he keeps trying to be compassionate, especially towards Braham, but Braham keeps giving him crap and blaming him for Eir's death... the cynicism starts growing from there... people keep blaming him for things that are beyond his control, like putting Jormag and Primordus to sleep instead of letting them be destroyed, and more and more he keeps running in to situations where the compassion just won't do it anymore. At the entrance to Vabbi the Commander has a poignant conversation with an Order of Shadows agent that displays what the real problem with compassion towards the Elonians. It's not that he doesn't have it... he does, but he also has a bit of an "enforced will" hero complex. There are people in Elona who don't want to be saved, who genuinely believe that Joko is their god who controls the cycle of life and death, etc. All of this IS in fact talked about in the PoF story. He's not just compassion fatigued, he has his compassion thrown in his face over and over again, not just in Path of Fire but also in the Living World story leading up to it. The cynicism has grown over time, and has really come to a head in the expac, but it was definitely starting to build well before PoF launched.

 

I am really glad I am not the only person who saw the change happening gradually as the commander had to deal with and put up with more and more crap.

[blambidy.3216]

The commander is upset because no one is giving him the respects for what he has done for the planet. all honesty, when chapter 1 of pof happened I was frustrated with the commander being forced to wait at the gate to enter. Are you kidding me? I have to wait for kasmeer and rytlock to help me open the gate? Are you kidding me? We killed zhaitan, mordremoth and White mantle. And I get this kind of respects from my own team not warning them to open the gate for me? Dude give them my description to let me go in.

 

Rytlock probably one of the biggest dumb asses in our team, unleashed Balthazar. So for commander to not flame up and beat his ass that’s is a big character for commanders part.

 

Another thing. During the whole pof no one believes commander of what he’s done. Most people think Joko killed Balthazar. Like you kidding me?

 

Tami being a bugaboo almost always in danger. Canoch a gambler. Rytlock unleashed Balthazar. Kasmeer.... don’t where she is. And as commander battle the god of war alone because these guys are too slow. But the world is at stake. Do they not know what that means? Twice they were late and one time, we did get killed. Just happened for us to be able to be come back to life.

 

Honestly I’m glad commander is angry. One day we will be getting a better rank because our own pact is a whole bunch of dumb asses And all should be thanking what the commander has done.

[Cuddy.6247]

I think one of the big differences between your other characters of HoT and PoF too are that the natives of PoF play too much into a grey area. There's too much hesitation to act. You can't disrupt the culture Palawa Joko built. You can't go blaspheming a god in the face of humans. In contrast to the Itzel and Nuhoch who were aiding your cause as soon as you helped out their village and the Exalted who put their full force behind your existence when they realized that Glint's second scion really had chosen you as a champion.

 

As Daybreak shows (also a lot of events in PoF maps), the only group of people in all of Elona that actually care to *do* something are the Sunspears, and they're the only group of people that are getting any sort of slack from the Commander.

[Cuddy.6247]

> @"azureai.9764" said:

> > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > That's true. Given the race, it may be more in line to an asura, for example, than maybe a sylvari. After all, the dialogue is the same no matter what.

>

> And this is one of the many problems with the writing as of late. How my charr commander responded to Balthazar's "The Gods have abandoned you!" without immediately proclaiming "THE CHARR NEED NO GODS" is utterly lorebreaking. They already have the line recorded!

>

> ~~Or at least have him say my response of "I don't give a kitten."~~

 

This is definitely the kind of stuff that should have been included in an expansion. Not a lot of changes, just a handful. They were able to make living story missions with unique interactions for each profession - hard to justify they couldn't have made a few tweaks in a story for each race.

[Palador.2170]

> @"Mewcifer.5198" said:

> > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > Nor do I wholly disagree with the way the Commander is portrayed - as I've mentioned repeatedly.

> >

> > My "beef" is with us never getting any explanation as to why this sudden shift in personality occurs.

>

> I'm not sure what you expect. Did you want your player character to turn to the camera and be like "You see, I would spend a lot more time around here helping the little guys, but I am so emotionally drained that I can't bother, I really need to sacrifice some of the small things in order to put all my remaining energy into killing the big baddie causing most the problems"

>

Thank you for the Other M flashback.

 

And you're right, we don't need that. But we could have Rox or someone ask "Commander, you seem a bit short tempered. I know things are bad right now and all, but... care to vent for a minute?"

 

[Leo G.4501]

> @"Palador.2170" said:

> > @"Mewcifer.5198" said:

> > > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > > Nor do I wholly disagree with the way the Commander is portrayed - as I've mentioned repeatedly.

> > >

> > > My "beef" is with us never getting any explanation as to why this sudden shift in personality occurs.

> >

> > I'm not sure what you expect. Did you want your player character to turn to the camera and be like "You see, I would spend a lot more time around here helping the little guys, but I am so emotionally drained that I can't bother, I really need to sacrifice some of the small things in order to put all my remaining energy into killing the big baddie causing most the problems"

> >

> Thank you for the Other M flashback.

>

> And you're right, we don't need that. But we could have Rox or someone ask "Commander, you seem a bit short tempered. I know things are bad right now and all, but... care to vent for a minute?"

>

 

Stoicism.

 

As much as society tells us it's healthy to express our emotions and blah blah blah, there's a time and place for it and usually not while you're executing a timely and dangerous mission which is a good 80% of the time.

 

While I don't disagree with the premise of a lot of posts here in this thread, I still cannot believe people actually think it'd be *better* that a pivotal (or is aimed to be pivotal) role that people look up to or for guidance should be outwardly swayed by their emotions or that small digressions should phase them when they are far easier to move on from. I know it's PC to tell people not to bottle up their emotions, or that it's considered edgy to brood or snap, but a lot of the suggestions in here I don't quite agree with...

[Cragga the Eighty Third.60]

If you need another excuse for the Commander's attitude, try to remember that they spent all that time and effort to kill two elder dragons and save the world, and then found out that killing the elders dragons would actually destroy the world.

 

Kind of like being the guy who got a Nobel prize for inventing the pesticide DDT, then finding out it was poisoning the entire planet.