D/D Tempest - viability in WvW vs sPvP?

[skyline.3286]

I'm a returning player - when I last played, D/D ele was meta in WvW. I played the shit out of it and loved every moment. Naturally, it was soon nerfed into the ground.

 

I came back a few months ago, checked Metabattle, and to my happy surprise, the [WET Dagger Tempest Roamer](https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Tempest_-_WET_Dagger_Tempest_Roamer "WET Dagger Tempest Roamer is ") has a 100% rating. My favorite build is back in style, with a new and improved Tempest twist! Great!

 

Before I committed to building all the gear I would need to follow the build, I decided to give it a run in unranked sPvP to see how I liked it. Obviously, I couldn't get the suggested stats with the PvP buid limitations, but I approximated by using the Marauder Amulet with Rune of Water for a bit of healing power. I also tried using the Mender's Amulet with Rune of Rage (more healing power, less ferocity and precision). I also tried picking Air instead of Earth.

 

No matter what I tried, I hit like a wet noodle and my sustain felt mediocre. Even when I pulled off the burst rotation perfectly, even squishy classes walked away laughing at me. I'm hardly a pro, but I consider myself a decent player. I've had plenty of success with the other classes/builds I play in sPvP, even ones I'm not as familiar with. I figured since the build is rated so high, and core D/D is my most played build, I should be getting better results - at the least, it shouldn't be my least successful build.

 

Why is it ranked so high on Metabattle for WvW yet so rare (and ineffectual, at least in my hands) in sPvP? Is there something about it that just doesn't translate to sPvP? Basically - is there a point in me gearing a D/D Tempest for WvW if I'm useless with it in sPvP?

[steki.1478]

Metabattle just doesnt get updated, WET temp build is very old and 100% rating on it means absolutely nothing. Problem with ele is that you can either spec into full support/tank who's durable and offers strong heals or full glass cannon who does damage but barely sustains itself. Most of other classes have both which is why ele in current meta feels weak. Another problem is that tempest doesnt give you any benefits in solo play (overloads hurt you more than they help you), and while strong in groups (as healer) it's still very vulnerable to cc and focus fire, unlike firebrand who's a lot tankier and has superior support capabilities.

 

You'll have more luck roaming on core ele or weaver.

[Razor.6392]

tempest isnt optimal in any game mode atm.

[Svarty.8019]

> @"Razor.6392" said:

> tempest isnt optimal in any game mode atm.

 

HoT classes were crippled to sell PoF.

[Gandalf.1537]

> @"Razor.6392" said:

> tempest isnt optimal in any game mode atm.

 

Idk about that, I use staff backline heal in zerg fights using tempest, and I am loving. Using full Zerk gear, I am squishy but I heal big and been using ele forever and pretty much know how to avoid getting hit.

[steki.1478]

> @"Gandalf.1537" said:

> Idk about that, I use **staff backline heal** in zerg fights using tempest, and I am loving. Using **full Zerk gear**, I am squishy but I **heal big** ...

 

There's no such thing as big heals on zerk staff, or staff in general (when it comes to wvw). Speaking of tempest, it's a complete waste with staff since play style of one contradicts with another.

 

[Mighty Sorceress.2387]

> @"Svarty.8019" said:

> > @"Razor.6392" said:

> > tempest isnt optimal in any game mode atm.

>

> HoT classes we crippled to sell PoF.

 

Yes, it's part of Planned obsolescence, just like cell phones:) Scourge, Firebrand and Spellbreaker continue to be OP despite so many threads complaining about them. In order to be competitive, one must get the latest and brightest from Anet.

 

[Jski.6180]

You can build a super tankly d/d tempest in wvw but the dmg feels lacking. I run a bit of a different version my self more aura aimed and using conja earth shield for counter ranged spam.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAoYncMAFRgdOAGOAcYilBAzd1+avtEbhkwUIIAMAKAA-jlyHQBA4BA8PlBzRJo30B8O1fGiSjXeCAC3+DLRJmX0CQKAW3aB-w

I get the feeling that reaper may simply do melee better for that battle melee mages ideal.

[Gandalf.1537]

> @"steki.1478" said:

> > @"Gandalf.1537" said:

> > Idk about that, I use **staff backline heal** in zerg fights using tempest, and I am loving. Using **full Zerk gear**, I am squishy but I **heal big** ...

>

> There's no such thing as big heals on zerk staff, or staff in general (when it comes to wvw). Speaking of tempest, it's a complete waste with staff since play style of one contradicts with another.

>

 

I don't know, I am pumping out big numbers and I am not having any issues, works very very well for me, :)

[Henrik.7560]

> @"Svarty.8019" said:

> > @"Razor.6392" said:

> > tempest isnt optimal in any game mode atm.

>

> HoT classes we crippled to sell PoF.

 

Only some, DH is still working wonderful in all games modes. Berseker stands strong in PvE, Herald is great in WvW, Daredevil is superior to deadeye anywhere, and druid is unique and will always have its uses in both PvE and PvP.

However you're correct they did destroy reaper, tempest and scrapper.

 

And with the current attention anet has shown, I have given up hope of them reviving those specs. Their focus is probably more onto making other PoF specs more enjoyable.

[lLobo.7960]

Tempest is still a great healer and support spec for ele.

- D/w - great healing and defensive support (good for wvw zergling)

- Staff - great healing and condi cleanse (good for pve healing)

- D/f - great healing and survivability (good for pvp)

 

Weaver is great for dps and roaming.

roaming celestial weaver plays similar to old d/d cele. great sustain, decent dmg, good mobility, tons of cleanse.

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"Mighty Sorceress.2387" said:

> > @"Svarty.8019" said:

> > > @"Razor.6392" said:

> > > tempest isnt optimal in any game mode atm.

> >

> > HoT classes we crippled to sell PoF.

>

> Yes, it's part of Planned obsolescence, just like cell phones:) Scourge, Firebrand and Spellbreaker continue to be OP despite so many threads complaining about them. In order to be competitive, one must get the latest and brightest from Anet.

>

 

You are wrong...this goes only for ele not being an anet pet class ...berseker-druid-dh -dd thief- chronomancer.....are all plenty viable still

[zinkz.7045]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"Mighty Sorceress.2387" said:

> > > @"Svarty.8019" said:

> > > > @"Razor.6392" said:

> > > > tempest isnt optimal in any game mode atm.

> > >

> > > HoT classes we crippled to sell PoF.

> >

> > Yes, it's part of Planned obsolescence, just like cell phones:) Scourge, Firebrand and Spellbreaker continue to be OP despite so many threads complaining about them. In order to be competitive, one must get the latest and brightest from Anet.

> >

>

> You are wrong...this goes only for ele not being an anet pet class ...

 

Thanks for the laugh, ele has been between good and top tier for the majority of the game, in all three game modes, and has been broken OP for long periods of time (cele ele in PvP for example).

 

 

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"zinkz.7045" said:

> > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > @"Mighty Sorceress.2387" said:

> > > > @"Svarty.8019" said:

> > > > > @"Razor.6392" said:

> > > > > tempest isnt optimal in any game mode atm.

> > > >

> > > > HoT classes we crippled to sell PoF.

> > >

> > > Yes, it's part of Planned obsolescence, just like cell phones:) Scourge, Firebrand and Spellbreaker continue to be OP despite so many threads complaining about them. In order to be competitive, one must get the latest and brightest from Anet.

> > >

> >

> > You are wrong...this goes only for ele not being an anet pet class ...

>

> Thanks for the laugh, ele has been between good and top tier for the majority of the game, in all three game modes, and has been broken OP for long periods of time (cele ele in PvP for example).

>

>

 

And ? The people who used to win on ele have either rerolled to something else and they keep winning or quitted the game...what it matters to you what's OP or not?

[Razor.6392]

> @"zinkz.7045" said:

> > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > @"Mighty Sorceress.2387" said:

> > > > @"Svarty.8019" said:

> > > > > @"Razor.6392" said:

> > > > > tempest isnt optimal in any game mode atm.

> > > >

> > > > HoT classes we crippled to sell PoF.

> > >

> > > Yes, it's part of Planned obsolescence, just like cell phones:) Scourge, Firebrand and Spellbreaker continue to be OP despite so many threads complaining about them. In order to be competitive, one must get the latest and brightest from Anet.

> > >

> >

> > You are wrong...this goes only for ele not being an anet pet class ...

>

> Thanks for the laugh, ele has been between good and top tier for the majority of the game, in all three game modes, and has been broken OP for long periods of time (cele ele in PvP for example).

>

 

I always laugh when I read nonsense like this. Ele wasn't designed to be overpowered like all of these new specs. Meteor shower is a vanilla ability and cele ele was (read) the ONLY time in 5 years where elementalist had a S tier build in pvp. Granted it lasted a long time (mostly exacerbated by anet's slow balancing and the new traitlines, which actually buffed it) but to say ele has been top tier for "the majority of the game" is laughable tbh. Every single time ele had something good, it has been nerfed - often while taking innocent builds out in the process.

 

 

 

 

 

[zinkz.7045]

> @"Razor.6392" said:

> > @"zinkz.7045" said:

> > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > > @"Mighty Sorceress.2387" said:

> > > > > @"Svarty.8019" said:

> > > > > > @"Razor.6392" said:

> > > > > > tempest isnt optimal in any game mode atm.

> > > > >

> > > > > HoT classes we crippled to sell PoF.

> > > >

> > > > Yes, it's part of Planned obsolescence, just like cell phones:) Scourge, Firebrand and Spellbreaker continue to be OP despite so many threads complaining about them. In order to be competitive, one must get the latest and brightest from Anet.

> > > >

> > >

> > > You are wrong...this goes only for ele not being an anet pet class ...

> >

> > Thanks for the laugh, ele has been between good and top tier for the majority of the game, in all three game modes, and has been broken OP for long periods of time (cele ele in PvP for example).

> >

>

> I always laugh when I read nonsense like this. Ele wasn't designed to be overpowered like all of these new specs. Meteor shower is a vanilla ability and cele ele was (read) the ONLY time in 5 years where elementalist had a S tier build in pvp. Granted it lasted a long time (mostly exacerbated by anet's slow balancing and the new traitlines, which actually buffed it) but to say ele has been top tier for "the majority of the game" is laughable tbh. Every single time ele had something good, it has been nerfed - often while taking innocent builds out in the process.

 

> but to say ele has been top tier for "the majority of the game" is laughable tbh.

 

Talking of what is it laughable, you know what I find laughable, when someone responds to a comment that they haven't read properly, I didn't claim ele has been top tier for the majority of the game, I stated it had "been between good and top tier the majority of the game".

 

> I always laugh when I read nonsense like this. Ele wasn't designed to be overpowered like all of these new specs. Meteor shower is a vanilla ability and cele ele was (read) the ONLY time in 5 years where elementalist had a S tier build in pvp.

 

And again, you've got it wrong... When WvW was at its peak ele was top tier (along with guard) it was considered the carry class in zergs, it has been top tier in PvE for long periods as the best overall DPS (at times by a huge margin and on a class that was stackable, completely broken OP), as for PvP cele ele was the only time it was broken OP (maybe the most broken OP class we ever had in relative terms), but it was also top tier with Tempest after they nerfed rev/chrono bunker, the only two times ele has not been at least good in PvP is for a few months before celestial and arguably now with weaver being one of the weaker PoF specs (though still in a better place than Rev).

 

Other than maybe guard, ele has fared the best among all three game modes over the last 5 years, it has very rarely been considered a bad choice in the way say necro was for years in PvE, or how ranger was in PvP for a massive spell between them nerfing spirit ranger and adding druid with HoT, or how in WvW engy/ranger/thief have basically been considered bad for zergs (and only even had niche roles at the odd time in guild raids) for the entire game.

 

The idea that ele has somehow been hard done by, is laughable.

 

 

 

[zinkz.7045]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"zinkz.7045" said:

> > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > > @"Mighty Sorceress.2387" said:

> > > > > @"Svarty.8019" said:

> > > > > > @"Razor.6392" said:

> > > > > > tempest isnt optimal in any game mode atm.

> > > > >

> > > > > HoT classes we crippled to sell PoF.

> > > >

> > > > Yes, it's part of Planned obsolescence, just like cell phones:) Scourge, Firebrand and Spellbreaker continue to be OP despite so many threads complaining about them. In order to be competitive, one must get the latest and brightest from Anet.

> > > >

> > >

> > > You are wrong...this goes only for ele not being an anet pet class ...

> >

> > Thanks for the laugh, ele has been between good and top tier for the majority of the game, in all three game modes, and has been broken OP for long periods of time (cele ele in PvP for example).

> >

> >

>

> And ?

 

What do you mean 'And?', you make out that ele has been hard done by, when the opposite is true, other than maybe guard it has probably fared better than any other class across all three game modes over the last 5 years.

[idolin.2831]

Is D/D tempest or D/D core still viable then?

[steki.1478]

Tempest for groups, core (or even weaver, havent tried it with daggers) for solo. It's as viable as good you are with it. Just dont expect some sick damage like other classes can do.

[Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2]

there is this guy called sm seven who plays core dagger/dagger in ranked and can reach plat levels in eu. i'd say u lack a bit too much damage in tempest to play dagger/dagger in pvp in wvw it's good. but in pvp play core d/d

[Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2]

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCv81Tjyq5jQ4ff7OCjUUhjw/videos

 

check out his vids.

[Waisenpai.6028]

Playing in NA is different! ^ That's in EU and he is never alone. You can see his friend is a strong meta class. Ele can't take focus fire so someone has to eat it so he can 1 spam to heal back as he rotates into water and dodge roll for healing, Ele has not been meta for along time, you can play a troll tank weaver doing small damage in order to wear out some non meta classes but no.