Coronit.9432 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > @"LaFurion.3167" said: > > > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > > > @"Turk.5460" said: > > > > There are not a lot of builds that will be effective against *every* other build. They all have some weakness to exploit, and most have a build from another profession that directly counters them. > > > This! > > > > > > @OP: > > > Best thing you can do, when you want to have a less frustrating roaming experience is to run a build that can deal with the builds you can expect to encounter when roaming. > > > > > > So roaming is pretty painful, if you can't deal with thieves and mesmers in general. And to deal with these classes you need **at least (!)** a non telegraphed (=instant) burst on a low cooldown (as they will reset the fight a few times). And even then trailblazer/dire condi mirage and condi thief are pure cheese. > > > > > > > What is an example of this on warrior? What spell can just instantly one shot him? Did you see how much I struggled to even be near him? Instant teleports, invis, re teleport, and my only chance is to one shot him? > > imo warrior doesnt have a burst that is fast enough to threaten a thief currently. when i returned at PoF release from my break i found warriors freekills compared to before my break when they had faster burst from their berserk form with GS, there i had to concentrate to dogge properly - but that was removed during my break or for what ever reason noone uses it anymore. now everything is highly telegraphed and most skills dont do enough damage so i can tank a few hits. have you played against the core build currently? That can easily oneshot. Its completely possible to play warri with a lot, if not full, zerker gear currently, so everything hits hard, yet remaining relatively tanky. To the topic: Huge l2p issue mostly imo. I think you wrote in another thread that you completed your ascended stuff just a week ago and it seems you haven´t played that much (you having a legy propably means you made a long pause). Have you played other classes, because knowing how classes work is important. What gear were you using exactly in the video? Together with the thief the deadeye shouldn´t have been any problem. You weren´t exactly failing at hitting your skills, but it looks rather spammy. You even play with bullcharge, but when you miss your CC´s and don´t burst adequately you will and should fail at killing. At least you mostly dodged DJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansau.7326 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Roaming with hammer and without Shield? No Endure Pain or Berserker Stance? Starting with 100blades? Using Whirlwind 2s after the thief stealthes? Using melee attacks at range? Burning bursts when the enemy is far away? Wasting full counter? There are so many things wrong with your performance, thief/mesmer OP'ness becomes secondary... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaFurion.3167 Posted January 11, 2018 Author Share Posted January 11, 2018 > @"Coronit.9432" said: > >have you played against the core build currently? That can easily oneshot. Its completely possible to play warri with a lot, if not full, zerker gear currently, so >everything hits hard, yet remaining relatively tanky. >To the topic: Huge l2p issue mostly imo. I think you wrote in another thread that you completed your ascended stuff just a week ago and it seems you haven´t >played that much (you having a legy propably means you made a long pause). Have you played other classes, because knowing how classes work is important. What >gear were you using exactly in the video? Together with the thief the deadeye shouldn´t have been any problem. You weren´t exactly failing at hitting your skills, but >it looks rather spammy. You even play with bullcharge, but when you miss your CC´s and don´t burst adequately you will and should fail at killing. At least you >mostly dodged DJ. Yes, I do realize that I made mistakes in the fight, I even mentioned some of them. My issue is not that my inexperience is a wall preventing me from performing (well or even decently vs classes), but the mechanics of stealth, mobility, and "fighting style" of dead eye and mirage that requires very little effort or trade off. I know that I am not the best player, running not the best build, but even then, seeing the dead eye teleport infinitely and invis infinitely infuriates me to no end, as it is (for me), literally impossible to fight them; they have way too much lee way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaFurion.3167 Posted January 11, 2018 Author Share Posted January 11, 2018 Also, thank you all for your comments, both sides are refreshing to me. The people agreeing with me does confirm to me that the playstyle at least is legit cancer. The people that have pointed out my mistakes and other factors that could have let me kill him does make me wonder, and realize that I can do better and perhaps kill these types of players, even if only with perfect game play that will only come with more experience. I just wish that nobody ever has to deal with something like that ever again lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDse.7623 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 > @"Coronit.9432" said: > > @"MUDse.7623" said: > > > @"LaFurion.3167" said: > > > > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > > > > @"Turk.5460" said: > > > > > There are not a lot of builds that will be effective against *every* other build. They all have some weakness to exploit, and most have a build from another profession that directly counters them. > > > > This! > > > > > > > > @OP: > > > > Best thing you can do, when you want to have a less frustrating roaming experience is to run a build that can deal with the builds you can expect to encounter when roaming. > > > > > > > > So roaming is pretty painful, if you can't deal with thieves and mesmers in general. And to deal with these classes you need **at least (!)** a non telegraphed (=instant) burst on a low cooldown (as they will reset the fight a few times). And even then trailblazer/dire condi mirage and condi thief are pure cheese. > > > > > > > > > > What is an example of this on warrior? What spell can just instantly one shot him? Did you see how much I struggled to even be near him? Instant teleports, invis, re teleport, and my only chance is to one shot him? > > > > imo warrior doesnt have a burst that is fast enough to threaten a thief currently. when i returned at PoF release from my break i found warriors freekills compared to before my break when they had faster burst from their berserk form with GS, there i had to concentrate to dogge properly - but that was removed during my break or for what ever reason noone uses it anymore. now everything is highly telegraphed and most skills dont do enough damage so i can tank a few hits. > > have you played against the core build currently? That can easily oneshot. Its completely possible to play warri with a lot, if not full, zerker gear currently, so everything hits hard, yet remaining relatively tanky. yes they can hit hard, but not fast enough therefor too easy to dogge. else you could as well say hammer rev is strong against deadeye as a CoR would onehit me - but guess the chances of that hitting me or a reaper being strong against deadeye as they can kill me in no time if i was melee, but they rarely even get into range to do something. warrior can get rather close with all the gap closers but that is not enough unless i fail to dogge a bulls charge and dont have a stunbreak ready, but that skill is so obvious i would deserve to die if i get hit by it. there are a few warriors tho that i cannot kill, if they dogge all DJ and when i kite them and they miss 2 of their gap closers they turn around and move other direction. so if i want to kill them i have to fight while staying in range of their gap closers so i need to dogge their skills, they simply wont fight me when i outrange them. problem is melee i only have 2 dogges + heal evade and that wont be enough to dogge every thing so i would need to go on more range rather quick again so they would again reset if i attack them from out of their range. there is also the issue that i can hardly go into stealth while in melee as 4 of my 5 ways to get into stealth can be interrupted, if i want to kite without stealth i need to use DR alot wich costs alot of ini and can also be interrupted and it might not even port me 1 unit. so basically in a deadeye vs warrior fight the deadeye will win if he can use is range advantage, when the space is limited the warrior has an advantage if the deadeye can not open a gap. this is mainly the case inside many towers/keeps so there i just hope to oneshot cause everything else is too risky. if i only try oneshots cause the envoirment wont let me kite, alot of warriors will start trying to reflect instead of evade, this i also like to abuse by switching quickly to basi venom. and even the 'best' wont allways dogge, so i either kill the warrior even in limited space or they leave. cause i can avoid their attemps to burst for a short time after the shot, also in melee as they are not instant and then return to stealthcamping. just if possible i kite them visible as i have made the experience, that this lowers the chance of them running away and i will have faster max malice, therefor a longer period to use a oneshotting DJ and can attemp like 3-4 times with one mark or even more if i use esc cancel - havent seen one so far that was able to avoid 3 DJs during one mark period they mostly use an attack after 1. or 2. and fail to cancel it. mostly a gapcloser that can only be canceld with weapon swap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonNeonite.1048 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 So what? Deadeye is a bad elite compared to daredevil, or even the years' old shadow arts build. I've pretty much given up trying to roam anyway, because of so much broken the balance of the game, is in this game mode, not just because of mobility, sustain, burst and stealth - build wars 2. The game mode won't be balanced for 1v1s, especially with different gear and stat choices, and balance patches focusing on PVE/PvP. I think mesmers are stronger than thieves nowadays though, especially the past 4 years, simply because, they don't need to position themselves like a d/p backstab thief does, even we have a cd on backstab these days. At least thieves having mobility and stealth, as they havs been designed for, gives them some chance in certain situations and fights, outside of larger scale fights, where AOE melts. Just remember the mode will never be balanced for small scale wvw, not even PvP is balanced these days, but it can be more controlled there. You have to pick and choose your fights or even group up with other players, don't try to 1v1 unless you feel comfortable with your build or class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aridon.8362 Posted January 12, 2018 Share Posted January 12, 2018 Roaming more like rekt by more than one person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneakytails.5629 Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 OP you are not the only one feeling that way in WvW, so do not feel bad. The fact of the matter is that there is almost zero room for counter-play with some of these specs we are seeing now. Condi Mirage to me is the worst offender followed by Scourge and Deadeye. I see small groups now of Scourges, Firebrands, and Mirages all the time now, sometimes a Deadeye is thrown in for just that extra bit of salty taste. At this point coming across a Daredevil, Necro, or Mesmer feels like hitting the lotto. I just dont see much of anything else besides this OP cheese comp BS all the time. It really sucks and it takes the fun out of the game real quick. I miss my fights with Scrappers, Core Warriors, Guardians and even the fuzzy cuddly teefs. Where are you guys? The other night it was so bad all five skills on my bar were anti-condi and it still was not enough with these cheese groups rolling around all over the place. So dont worry, others are suffering and getting frustrated as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaFurion.3167 Posted January 13, 2018 Author Share Posted January 13, 2018 > @"sneakytails.5629" said: > OP you are not the only one feeling that way in WvW, so do not feel bad. The fact of the matter is that there is almost zero room for counter-play with some of these specs we are seeing now. > > Condi Mirage to me is the worst offender followed by Scourge and Deadeye. > > I see small groups now of Scourges, Firebrands, and Mirages all the time now, sometimes a Deadeye is thrown in for just that extra bit of salty taste. > > At this point coming across a Daredevil, Necro, or Mesmer feels like hitting the lotto. > > I just dont see much of anything else besides this OP cheese comp BS all the time. It really sucks and it takes the fun out of the game real quick. I miss my fights with Scrappers, Core Warriors, Guardians and even the fuzzy cuddly teefs. > > Where are you guys? > > The other night it was so bad all five skills on my bar were anti-condi and it still was not enough with these cheese groups rolling around all over the place. > > So dont worry, others are suffering and getting frustrated as well. Yeah condi clear vs condi application is in a laughable spot right now :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ubi.4136 Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 The problem with the Mirage condi build, is it can't be dodged. Even if you time your dodge perfectly, you still have 16 stacks of confusion on you. Swap weapons real quick for the cleanse on swap, and all you did was clear the cover. Can't attack, can't cleanse the endless spam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 > @"Ubi.4136" said: > The problem with the Mirage condi build, is it can't be dodged. Even if you time your dodge perfectly, you still have 16 stacks of confusion on you. Swap weapons real quick for the cleanse on swap, and all you did was clear the cover. Can't attack, can't cleanse the endless spam. Hahaha... I cant even remember the last time I even saw a condi mirage, people dont run that anymore. It's still a one-trick pony in 1v1 vs poor builds with little condi cleanse. Small man groups pretty much all run with a shatter mirage instead (if they have a mesmer) as they are a **far** more dangerous threat against good players on good builds and grouped enemies. At least that's how it seems to be on EU nowadays, the meta has taken a heavy turn toward damn near immortal power bruiser builds backed by dps in a rough 75/25 ratio and for the dps they will probably be either power or hybrid builds with only some scourge running full condi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kovu.7560 Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 > @"LaFurion.3167" said: > 3) Has this type of "wvw roaming" (which it isnt, by the way.... -_-) made other classes very very unviable to roam, unless you have access to very specific skills? The answer is undeniably yes. There are far less necromancers and guardians roaming than there are mesmers, thieves, **rangers, and holosmiths** (all of who utilize stealth + gap closers/escapes to remain roaming viable). I see a lot more spellbreakers, berserkers and even core warriors roaming around in wvw than holosmiths or rangers. They may lack stealth, but don't underestimate their damage immunity options, (both physical and condition), stability, health regeneration, damage, lockdown potential and mobility. The various thief specs are annoying and a little too potent in roaming situations, I agree, but IMO the Mirage spec is the true offender. ~ Kovu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choppy.4183 Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > The problem with the Mirage condi build, is it can't be dodged. Even if you time your dodge perfectly, you still have 16 stacks of confusion on you. Swap weapons real quick for the cleanse on swap, and all you did was clear the cover. Can't attack, can't cleanse the endless spam. > Hahaha... I cant even remember the last time I even saw a condi mirage, people dont run that anymore. It's still a one-trick pony in 1v1 vs poor builds with little condi cleanse. Small man groups pretty much all run with a shatter mirage instead (if they have a mesmer) as they are a **far** more dangerous threat against good players on good builds and grouped enemies. > > At least that's how it seems to be on EU nowadays, the meta has taken a heavy turn toward kitten near immortal power bruiser builds backed by dps in a rough 75/25 ratio and for the dps they will probably be either power or hybrid builds with only some scourge running full condi. Naw man, it's still a thing. It's like training wheels before someone is ready for power shatter, which is itself pretty faceroll. I'd say 20% of roaming or small group mesmers I come across are rolling super defense condi still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
style.6173 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 I'd rather fight a deadeye any day compared to most of the condi spam classes out there today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeolus.3615 Posted January 14, 2018 Share Posted January 14, 2018 > @"style.6173" said: > I'd rather fight a deadeye any day compared to most of the condi spam classes out there today. the only issue with dead eye is due the "defense vs crits power creep", and bad player still can have access to extremelly high damage build rather thant need to have any kind of depth knowledge towards the class/build, that is how i played hammer zerker on WvW, 15k+ aoe plus 4-10k(crit) from the aoe flame blast sigil.. is everything i need to know it will hapen due build gimmick... when i press a button, i didnt even unlocked the elite trait, i only have a normal healing, not even condi cleanses... btw deadeye it is not that bad, there are far far worse imbas on the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesis.7896 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 Endure pain have 60 seconds cooldown. End of debate. Warriors dont teleport, dont have minions, dont stealth, dont range and their attacks are slow and predictable. Theives here should say the truth ; They one shot people while in stealth. How is it fun for anyone to be one shotted in the first place and how is it fun to fight a perma-dodge/stealth ennemy ? Please tell me when was the last time a warrior one shotted someone... Even with 25 power stacks, it is almost impossible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chorazin.4107 Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 > @"Nemesis.7896" said: > Endure pain have 60 seconds cooldown. > > End of debate. > > Warriors dont teleport, dont have minions, dont stealth, dont range and their attacks are slow and predictable. > > Theives here should say the truth ; They one shot people while in stealth. How is it fun for anyone to be one shotted in the first place and how is it fun to fight a perma-dodge/stealth ennemy ? > > Please tell me when was the last time a warrior one shotted someone... Even with 25 power stacks, it is almost impossible... Funflame pre zerker nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasajoe.1509 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 > @"Nemesis.7896" said: > Endure pain have 60 seconds cooldown. > > End of debate. > > Warriors dont teleport, dont have minions, dont stealth, dont range and their attacks are slow and predictable. > > Theives here should say the truth ; They one shot people while in stealth. How is it fun for anyone to be one shotted in the first place and how is it fun to fight a perma-dodge/stealth ennemy ? > > Please tell me when was the last time a warrior one shotted someone... Even with 25 power stacks, it is almost impossible... Great opinion, said like a true man ! (unlike some others) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetoII.3782 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 All I'm gonna say is it took longer to make a gamebreaker than it did to start obliterating everything in my path with it. Wheras all my teef frens are really, really demoralized. I know some really, really good teefs........ You guys keep stumping for nerfs if you must, I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpapasmurf.5623 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 > @"K THEN.5162" said: > As a power stealth spamming mesmer, I actually agree with you! As someone piloting the class on full glass, I feel I have way too many get out of jail free cards via blinks, stealth, and stun breaks with stealth being the worst offender by far. I personally believe that stealth is an incredibly toxic mechanic and if implemented in short durations, is tolerable, but once an individual can start stealthing for +8 seconds especially repeatedly, then it starts to become quite infuriating. To fix this, I always thought that a player would receive the 3 second reveal debuff whenever the stealth effect ends, regardless of whether they damaged someone or not I would LOVE this on my Daredevil. I run Revealed Training so its extra +200 power for me :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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