Mirage Specialization Updates for the Path of Fire Launch

[Mikkel.8427]

I'm happy with the changes overall, but I was hoping they'd just trash "Speed of Sand". The SS feels so worthless, especially in such a small amount. If I'm dodging, I want to use my ambush attack... which means facing my target... which means I can only backpedal or strafe... which means the SS doesn't do anything...

 

I was hoping they'd replace Speed of Sand with Infinite Horizon. IH really feels Espec defining.

 

Then they could have introduced a power oriented trait for a GM.

 

Something like:

 

Sand Trap-

Your Ambush attacks Immobilize your target. You deal bonus damage to Imobilized Foes.

1.5 Sec Imobilize

+10% Damage against immobilized targets

[Esplen.3940]

I forgot about it, but Mirage Mantle is still pretty underwhelming. It feels like a Minor but it's a Major.

[FJSAMA.2867]

Hi Robert. I just have one question: will base mesmer be further adjusted?

 

Also i still think it is an oversight to make clone spawned from Lingering Thoughts to replace a phantasm ( when 3 phantasms out). It needs scepter auto treatment.

[gilles.1642]

I am relieved. Thanks Anet for these changes. This is a good step in the right direction and I am now really looking forward to trying this Friday in the desert. Happy Mesmer

[Trigr.6481]

> @"Robert Gee.9246" said:

 

> * Self-Deception: Now creates a clone if you have at least 1 illusion.

 

 

Just for some clarification, do you need deception skills still to trigger self deception? Or do you just get a clone when you have 1 illusion period?

 

 

[Trigr.6481]

> > @"Robert Gee.9246" said:

>

> > * Self-Deception: Now creates a clone if you have at least 1 illusion.

>

>

> Just for some clarification, do you need deception skills still to trigger self deception now? Or do you just get a clone when you have 1 illusion period? The reason I'm confused because I'm just reading the change solely off face value and I'm assuming you would of added that tid bit of information in there if you want that to be the case.

 

 

 

[Tseison.4659]

I was hoping for Jaunt to have an increased range to atleast 600 but nope...it gets increased by a messily 50. So much for taking up that Elite for my build...

 

Looking at some of these changes, maybe 4 or so we're actually knocked off our feedback list that we requested in the old forums.

 

But this list literally just tells me that you guys read through EVERYTHING else that we poured so much TIME and effort into and just brushed it off.

 

It's pretty disrespectful when you guys ask for feedback during the beta weekends and when all is said and done - our opinions still don't matter in the end. So then why bother when I'm sure there's enough of you guys working enough to test and be "creative" enough to figure out changes on your own.

 

Oh but wait, no you guys need to see the feedback so then you can see how the passionate Mesmer community comes up with these amazing , creative and realistic changes for the class and then take the credit for yourselves....

 

And when few changes ARE made and you have us blindly accepting them. After a year more changes are made and then you'll have some of us thinking "oh that was a great idea", even though there was people who mentioned it in the feedback forms..... pfft, as if....

 

 

[Esplen.3940]

> @Trigr.6481 said:

> > @"Robert Gee.9246" said:

>

> > * Self-Deception: Now creates a clone if you have at least 1 illusion.

>

>

> Just for some clarification, do you need deception skills still to trigger self deception? Or do you just get a clone when you have 1 illusion period?

 

99.99% sure that it changes it from:

 

`Using a Deception skill spawns a clone if you have 2 illusions.`

to

`Using a Deception skill spawns a clone if you have at least 1 illusion out.`

[FJSAMA.2867]

> @Xyonon.3987 said:

> > @"Robert Gee.9246" said:

> > * Split Surge: Increased beam width. Now fires all 3 beams at the same time. Increased clone damage values by 150%.

>

> Aren't clones unable to deal any **power ** damage to begin with? Reading this patch note makes me wonder: 0 damage * 1.5 = still 0 damage. Or am I missing something here?

>

> > @"Robert Gee.9246" said:

> > Most of the changes are aimed at improving the feel of Mirage Cloak and its associated ambush skills though we’ve also made many small tuning changes to various utility and weapon skills.

>

> The biggest fear I have as a minmax Raider is that [Dune Cloak](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dune_Cloak "Dune Cloak") is simply gonna be better than [infinite Horizon](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infinite_Horizon "Infinite Horizon") due to the 20% condi duration. The problem here is that without Infinite Horizon, the whole point of having any clones is irrelevant and therefore leads to the same old boring "set up 3 iDuelists and wait" gameplay instead of the "ambush, shatter, reproduce" gameplay the Mirage would be capable of.

 

 

You forgot that using axe2 will replace a phantasm. So its more like 2 duelists and a bad clone. Oh well... Seems using this for the whirl finisher is a no no.

[Ojimaru.8970]

> @Xyonon.3987 said:

> Imo, Infinite Horizon and Dune Cloak should not be in the same tier, frankly Infinite Horizon is the only selling point of the Mirage and should be considered to become baseline.

 

Even at baseline, I don't see how Infinite Horizon would benefit PVE Condi DPS. In the current Condi Mesmer build, nearly half the build's damage comes from Bleeds generated by Phantasmal Duelists, and I don't see that changing with the Mirage.

[Gambit.9501]

> @"Robert Gee.9246" said:

> * Mirage Thrust: Capped clone generation range to skill range.

 

Aww... I was really hoping that this was saying that it's capping clone generation on the skill when you already have 3 illusions up (like with Scepter's auto attack clone generation). Because as it is, attempting to using Sword's ambush skill with phantasms (phantasmal swordsman being the *only viable way* to do power damage with mesmer) *completely* messes up your ability to keep up any phantasms since the clones generated by Mirage Thrust *will overwrite/replace your phantasms*.

 

also to be fair most of the ambushes feel like they have such low damage that using them feels like a dps loss

 

*Really* hope guys decide to change this some time soon. :(

Was quite happy with the Dueling & Illusions changes to give mesmer a power boost, and I would really hope you guys continue to show some love to that aspect of mesmer gameplay!

[Zenith.7301]

This is not going to make the spec much better in PvE, especially if those damage boosts to axe are to the power component instead of the condition damage.

 

A pity, it will be months before mirage will be a relevant PvE endgame specialization, if it ever gets made one considering power reaper has been non-viable the entire expansion.

 

I wanted to play something other than chronomancer in raids, but mirage's design is clearly only relevant in PvP, as are the utilities.

 

The scary part is that people complaining about chronomancer being the go to raid spec will probably make anet think they can make mirage attractive by nerfing chronomancer to be as bad as mirage will be in PvE.

 

Mirage is a spec with zero group utility and it doesn't even have the damage of a daredevil or dragonhunter or condition berzerker to justify the lack of utility.

[Alpha.1308]

> @Zenith.7301 said:

>but mirage's design is clearly only relevant in PvP, as are the utilities.

>

 

implying anyone in pvp would take Mirage over Chrono with what we get for what we have to lose

 

Mirage is a mess and they need to do it over, and stick back to what they said about e-specs "adding" to the base class

 

EVERY OTHER CLASS GOT A NEW PROFESSION MECHANIC

 

Chronomancer gave mesmer a well-deserved support specialization (arguably too strong with group perma quickness and alacrity but we'll ignore that part)

 

we got a core mesmer trait line this time around

 

this is a duelist..........

 

mesmer was already a duelist...........

 

we did NOT need yet ANOTHER trait line for 1v1ing in pvp, and certainly not one that just adds nothing more than a condi trait line for pve (which barely even adds much more total damage than chrono, at that, plus everything lost from chrono)

 

they need to rework the shatter mechanic and how phantasms behave for Mirage and give us a real elite specialization that isn't nailed into relying on CC-able, kill-able, avoid-able creatures for damage

 

i appreciate that they wanted the mirage theme and went for it, but it's not practical and boosting damage here and there to clean it up it won't solve anything in the long run

 

and i understand chrono is so strong it's hard to hold a candle to.....

 

but just..... give us a REAL "elite specialization", none of this fluff stuff that should have been baked into the base mesmer from the start (ambush, blink elite, re-targeting illusions)

[Shadogate.9124]

It's nice to see some changes being made, but this is no where near enough to make Mirage better than core Mesmer. Let alone the fact that the mechanics of Mirage still do not correct the main issues most people were having. It is truly saddening to read the other elite specialization changes and seeing such drastic changes, then reading these ones to see such minor things. For example, additional 50 range on Jaunt. 50 range is basically nothing and doesn't address the issue this skill has.

[Me Games Ma.8426]

I like the fact that mirages' dodges will be slightly longer than normal dodges.

 

With the new master trait power roaming could become a thing when specced into interrupts. Not sure if I want to drop inspiration though.

._.

[mortrialus.3062]

Distorted Desert in particular is very cool and the increase in the duration of Cloak was needed to make this elite dodge feel elite. All in all these changes are all very good. However there still desperately needs to be something that fixes Mirage's inability to evade properly in 5/8 diresctions.

[Arshay Duskbrow.1306]

Even _I'm_ prepared to admit that this is a step in the right direction, but it still won't be enough. Tweaked numbers can't and don't address the core design problems that this spec has, and I maintain serious doubts that it will ever be anything but a suboptimal toy to mess around with in open world PvE, while continuing to eternally switch back to Chrono when we actually want to do anything serious. Mirage mirrors are still a terrible, terrible mechanic, as is the idea of having to expend our dodges offensively to use ambushes. The damage will still probably be incredibly lackluster since it was so bad to start with, and the spec's complete hostility to phantasm and shatter usage remains.

[OriOri.8724]

> @"Robert Gee.9246" said:

> Hi everyone, we’ve made a bunch of changes to the Mirage specialization since the demo weekend and we wanted to give you a list of all the changes prior to Path of Fire’s release.

>

> Profession Mechanic

> * Mirage Cloak: Increased duration to 1 second.

> * Ambush: Increased window for ambush skill use after gaining mirage cloak to 1.5 seconds. Ambush skills now attempt to interrupt your current action rather than queuing. (Note that certain types of skills, such as healing skills, cannot be interrupted in this way.)

>

> Ambush

> * Ether Barrage: Removed shadowstep. Lowered damage per strike by 35%. You can now move while activating this skill.

> * Split Surge: Increased beam width. Now fires all 3 beams at the same time. Increased clone damage values by 150%.

> * Mirage Thrust: Capped clone generation range to skill range. Clone versions of this skill now proc interrupt traits and Dazzling.

> * Imaginary Axes: Increased damage by 33%.

>

> Axe

> * Axe Auto Attack: Increased damage by 10%.

> * Lingering Thoughts: Increased radius at which a clone will be summoned from 300 to 480.

> * Axes of Symmetry: Increased damage by 16%. Fixed an issue where the player would spawn further away from the target than the clones.

>

> Utility

> * False Oasis: Reduced recharge from 30 seconds to 25 seconds.

> * Mirage Mirrors: Duration increased from 5 seconds to 8 seconds. Added duration skill fact. Increased damage when shattered by 100%.

> * Crystal Sands: Increased projectile width. Adjusted projectiles to be more reliable on uneven terrain.

> * Mirage Advance: Removed line of sight requirement.

> * Mirage Retreat: Removed endurance gain. This skill now leaves behind a clone at your previous location. This skill now breaks enemy targeting.

> * Illusionary Ambush: Reduced recharge from 30 seconds to 20 seconds.

> * Sand Through Glass: Reduced recharge from 30 seconds to 25 seconds.

> * Jaunt: Increased range from 400 to 450.

>

> Traits

> * Renewing Oasis: Fixed a bug that caused this trait to give 3 seconds of regeneration instead of 4.

> * Speed of Sand: Increased superspeed duration to 1 second.

> * Self-Deception: Now creates a clone if you have at least 1 illusion.

> * Shards of Glass: This trait has been removed and replaced with Distorted Desert.

> * Distorted Desert: This trait causes all illusions shattered by Distortion to become Mirage Mirrors for 15 seconds. Additionally it allows allows ambush skills to be used whenever you grant yourself Distortion.

>

> Most of the changes are aimed at improving the feel of Mirage Cloak and its associated ambush skills though we’ve also made many small tuning changes to various utility and weapon skills.

>

> EDIT: Missed a trait change.

 

@"Robert Gee.9246" I agree with Pyro here, overall this is a step in the right direction. But its a fairly small step, and its leaning off to the side a bit as well (reducing forward progress). This addressed some, but not all, of the most glaring issues with mirage. But the mirror mechanic in and of itself is still clunky. The increased duration, as well as 15sec duration of mirrors from the new trait when using F4, are certainly welcomed. But overall the mechanic could use some more work. I won't go over the same things that others have already covered, but I do have some, in my opinion, very critical feedback on these changes.

 

0 - (Was originally lower in the list, but I changed my mind and decided it was top priority). Mirage itself has no vigor outside of shattering, and does not enhance vigor's endurance regen capabilities. Considering that a very large part of its theme revolves around mirage cloak, which comes from dodging and mirrors, we really should have an enhanced vigor as a minor trait. At the very least as a major trait somewhere.

1 - Ambush skills were already weak, and the few changes you made didn't change that. I certainly won't underestimate the ability to move while casting ether barrage, but 35% reduction in power damage per hit was excessive for this change in my opinion, considering you didn't increase the attack speed at all. Similarly, increasing the damage that GS clones do with split surge sounds great on paper, but the clones already did so little damage to begin with that it won't be noticed.

1b - (Again, was originally later in the list, but I felt it was more important, so it moved up). You guys still have not added any interaction between mirage cloak and phantasms. None. Not even a temporary damage boost, or flat CD reduction on their attack, simply no interaction at all.

2 - The changes to ambush skills didn't touch the issue of extremely long cast times. As it is, some of them still have a longer cast time than the duration of mirage cloak, even after the duration of mirage cloak was buffed to 1 second. To me, this is a huge issue. Ambush attacks should be entirely covered by mirage cloak's duration if you start casting them immediately. I understand that a quicker ether barrage may have been seen as too powerful in conjunction with malicious sorcery, but its not like mesmer doesn't have access to quickness (though it is significantly more difficult to obtain on demand without chrono). I really hope that you guys go back and take a look at the cast times of some of our ambush skills. I feel that a lot of them should be cast faster than they are. Specifically I think that ether barrage and split surge should have at least 1/4 second removed from their cast time, if not 1/2 second. And mirage thrust, while fantastic for movement, is a fairly clunky cast considering its movement capabilities.

3 - You didn't rework the mirror mechanic. Again, I appreciate a longer duration, and truthfully 66% increase in duration was more than I thought we were going to get, even though I really wanted it to go up to 10-12 seconds. However, a lot of us still see the mechanic itself as a failure due to how we interact with it. Personally, I'd be happy if they were just updated to pulse their damage and weakness every second until shattered (even if this meant lowering the duration a second or two). Its not like they do any significant amount of damage anyway, even with the 100% boost.

4 - While I won't complain about lowering base CDs on the utility skills (and general improvements), simply lowering CDs is not always the answer. Specifically, Sand Through Glass. Now a 25sec stunbreak, fantastic! However, this was a great opportunity to change the evade to a mirage cloak for internal synergy within the spec itself. And you missed this. Not to mention, evading backwards, only to dart back in if you want the mirror for the cloak? That's too easy of counterplay for the other player, they just have to lay some pressure over the mirror and you cannot get to it without burning a defensive utility or dodge, which would more or less defeat the purpose of obtaining mirage cloak. It just doesn't feel good to evade backwards, and then have to leap back in more or less immediately in order to get access to cloak. Please just add cloak to the skill itself, even if you remove the mirror component.

5 - More range on Jaunt is great, but I was really hoping to see 500 units (600 was a dream, but not realistic). 450 units is just barely out of melee range, but I guess you guys want it to be a melee oriented skill.

6 - While, again, I won't complain about the buffs to axe skills (since it desperately needed them). The weapon as a whole still feels weak. And I think its because the skills are designed around the assumption that we are running Mirrored axes (even though they are fairly weak and mostly useful for stacking more torment). This almost shoehorns us into using mirrored axes if we want axe to feel like a weighty and strong weapon. Which I guess is ok, really. But it just makes axe on its own feel pretty weak.

7 - In a similar vein, IH wasn't touched. And by touched I mean either made baseline or removed. Considering the nerf that ether barrage got, and the fact that split surge's "buff" only buffed the clone's damage, it really feels like you guys want us to be running this GM over any other trait. If that's the case, that you want us to always run this trait, then it should be considered for a baseline ability.

7b - Personal ambush attacks are still fairly weak overall, its clear they are designed around running IH and being able to get off multiple ambush attacks simultaneously. Please buff our personal ambush attacks, even if you have to slightly nerf the ones that clones perform.

[OriOri.8724]

I want to point out that my feedback seems overly negative, and that's because I'm answering directly to things I don't agree with, or wished we had received. Overall I do like the changes coming, I just don't want Anet to think that I am content with them. I still think that there is a lot more work to be done. But mirage already feels better to play just knowing that these changes are coming.

[zealex.9410]

> @Esplen.3940 said:

> > @Spookz.8213 said:

> > I haven't kept up with mirage. Are these changes good enough for the spec to feel good in PvE?

>

> Open world it'll feel better (than in Previews), but high end PvE it's not any better.

 

I dought unless we get to play with it in high end pve we'll be able to tell or not whether is a flat upgrade to the existing condi mesmer. Also we dont know how future encounters will play and we have like 3 elite specs that have torment with them id guess that might be telling us something.

[zealex.9410]

@"Robert Gee.9246" Do you thing something could be done with how superspeed functions when you dont move forwards?

[mortrialus.3062]

> @Xyonon.3987 said:

> > @"Robert Gee.9246" said:

> > * Split Surge: Increased beam width. Now fires all 3 beams at the same time. Increased clone damage values by 150%.

>

> Aren't clones unable to deal any **power ** damage to begin with? Reading this patch note makes me wonder: 0 damage * 1.5 = still 0 damage. Or am I missing something here?

>

> > @"Robert Gee.9246" said:

> > Most of the changes are aimed at improving the feel of Mirage Cloak and its associated ambush skills though we’ve also made many small tuning changes to various utility and weapon skills.

>

> The biggest fear I have as a minmax Raider is that [Dune Cloak](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dune_Cloak "Dune Cloak") is simply gonna be better than [infinite Horizon](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infinite_Horizon "Infinite Horizon") due to the 20% condi duration. The problem here is that without Infinite Horizon, the whole point of having any clones is irrelevant and therefore leads to the same old boring "set up 3 iDuelists and wait" gameplay instead of the "ambush, shatter, reproduce" gameplay the Mirage would be capable of.

>

> Imo, Infinite Horizon and Dune Cloak should not be in the same tier, frankly Infinite Horizon is the only selling point of the Mirage and should be considered to become baseline.

 

Infinite Horizon is a red herring. It is not there to increase your damage, very explicitly. It's there to make you harder to out from your clones, not to make Ambush Attacks do more damage.

[eldenbri.1059]

I really appreciate the update. Theorycrafting is half the fun for me.

 

I also appreciate the changes since they seem focused on the areas of feedback and things that needed tweaking.

 

It's still can't find a build that I would prefer to use for WvW roaming over my current chrono build. It feels like optimizing for the cool cloak plus ambush could possibly create a build where if you played it well, you would have a lot of defense plus some really good offense. But I haven't been able to make anything so far that I love.

 

And the lack of passive runspeed means there's a real tradeoff to get mobility for roaming. The most interesting thing I'm looking at right now is this all celestial build that is hybrid condi-power. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQRArf7anELDFphVLDOqBMMjlXDDNAkTOC+9vAYCssC8biGA-jFiAABAcCAgUJopq/Q4+DJcEAQT53i6H64hAQKgF1pB-w

 

It definitely feels less survivable than my all-trailblazer chrono. It's hard to know if the extra power damage would make up for the loss of condi damage and duration.

[Exciton.8942]

Overall, very very good changes.

 

Increasing mirage cloak duration to 1 sec and giving longer time window for ambush are exactly the game changer mirage needed to be competitive.

 

Mirage mirror duration increase is also nice but we will see if the mechanics will be useful now. The new master trait will be really good if those mirrors turn out to be decent.

[Curunen.8729]

Mmmm.

 

I'm also going to sound a little negative here.

 

The best thing is 1s mirage cloak duration on dodge - this is actually fantastic.

 

I also like illusionary ambush on 20s and Mirage Advance should be more useable now although I still think these two skills should just be combined into one skill and be done with it.

 

The rest of the changes sadly don't resonate with me. Jaunt to 450 is... too small a step. Really sad to not see IH baseline because there's no way to play a few mind games say in pvp or wvw where people __will__ momentarily take time to find the player after detargeting/stealth - yes as much as people scoff at this I do believe it will be possible to buy a few seconds against most players compared with core mesmer or chrono and especially in small teamfights where there is a lot going on.

 

Axe clone spawn range still looks a bit too close and it's a shame not to see an evade on either axe 2 or third hit of axe auto chain.

 

Anyway I hope the pathing and direction issues for axe 3 and illusionary ambush have been fixed.

 

Thankfully the buff to 1s for mirage cloak is giving me a lot of satisfaction that I can currently overlook other issues.