Biff.5312 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 I don't see the difference between this and just charging for an expansion. New/expanded material = additional cost. I have no objection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 > @"Adrian.4857" said: > To be more precise, I can also grind until I get the gold but it would be 800 gold and that is a lot of grinding (The only reason why I started playing PvP was for the gold). I bought this game so I can play occasionally and enjoy the story, not to grind or try to become the best at PvP, and having Living World seasons 1 and 2 locked because you need to pay or grind your time away just takes he whole fun away, why should I pay more to do the story? I can understand asking to pay for cosmetics, but asking the players to pay for the story is lower than what EA did. Path of Fire is what convinced me to buy the game, the landscapes were super awesome, the mounts were fantastic (I actually used a level 80 boost so I could get the mount for my main character) and the story seemed interesting, and unfortunately I was unable to do the story or even step foot in the Crystal Desert with my main because skipping a big chunk of the story does not only ruin it, but it leaves you super confused (Who the hell is Taimi? Who is Elen Kiel? I never met them, all I can do is read about them on the internet). > So yeah, bottom line is: you should make the story free, that's the right thing to do. I would like your house for free. The bottom line is: youu should make the property free, that's the right thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pah.4931 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 I think the flawed logic on Anet's behalf is that charging for each episode could prevent new players from playing and enjoying the game for longer, which could results in MORE profits and a healthier game. 1) This model is different than almost all MMOs, so it's not expected. If I hear GW2 is good, I buy the expansions then find out the "patches" (which is what LS episodes are, especially if you've played just about any other MMO) are not included in that cost... it's a HUGE turn off. Imagine if WoW made players pay for their patches in bewteen expansions (and I know, WoW has a sub... but this is about expectations). 2) The Mastery Points and abilities are locked behind some of this content, which limits your character (As well as ability to play with friends if you've come back to the game). That feels bad for a new player as well, especially when I didn't know that this was a thing. 3) It was suggested above, but there should be communication (and bundling discounts) when buying expansions. I think that would help a lot. But still could be a turn off. Anet doesn't have a sub. They need to make money. But I agree with the OP in the fact that the way Anet handles LS is not great, as it hinders players from coming to and sticking with this amazing game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 > @"pah.4931" said: > I think the flawed logic on Anet's behalf is that charging for each episode could prevent new players from playing and enjoying the game for longer, which could results in MORE profits and a healthier game. > > 1) This model is different than almost all MMOs, so it's not expected. If I hear GW2 is good, I buy the expansions then find out the "patches" (which is what LS episodes are, especially if you've played just about any other MMO) are not included in that cost... it's a HUGE turn off. Imagine if WoW made players pay for their patches in bewteen expansions (and I know, WoW has a sub... but this is about expectations). > > 2) The Mastery Points and abilities are locked behind some of this content, which limits your character (As well as ability to play with friends if you've come back to the game). That feels bad for a new player as well, especially when I didn't know that this was a thing. > > 3) It was suggested above, but there should be communication (and bundling discounts) when buying expansions. I think that would help a lot. But still could be a turn off. > > Anet doesn't have a sub. They need to make money. But I agree with the OP in the fact that the way Anet handles LS is not great, as it hinders players from coming to and sticking with this amazing game. 1) Many games have DLC’s. I think ESO has these on top of expansions. Players are purchasing the content contained within the core game and expansions that they purchase. None of the living story episodes are included with those. 2) None of the core and expansion masteries require the mastery points from the living story episodes. All that those additional mastery points provide is more options in what you choose to go for. I had all HoT masteries and PoF masteries completed before the next living story seasons started. Many others had done the same. 3) There doesn’t need to be any more communication. If it’s not mentioned as included then chances are that you’re not going to get it. It’s no different than me purchasing ESO and then expecting to get all of the DLC’s simply because it wasn’t specifically stated that I wouldn’t get them. A little research before making purchases helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian.4857 Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 > @"Ayakaru.6583" said: > Yes, i find it absurd that a company asks me to pay for their product. Gw2 should be completely free!! I paid for both expansions, what are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 It should be obvious that it's somewhat arbitrary that ANet has chosen to release some elements of their expansions at an additional cost. Certainly, they could have offered LS3 and LS4 included in the price of HoT and PoF respectively. But there are worse alternatives, too. * Living World Seasons (3 and beyond) could cost gems for everyone, including those playing during episode launches. Or they could only be free during the first week (instead of the 2-3 month period they are 'current'). * The expansions could cost an extra US$15-25 each and include the seasons. * Seasons could cost real money only and not be available for gems. * ANet could make seasons available only to subscribers to the game. On the spectrum of possibilities, the status quo is about as good as one should expect from a for-profit business: * Episodes are free not only to current players, but to anyone who logs on for 20 seconds during the time the episode is current. * The cost is nominal for everyone else: max 200 gems per episode or 1280 gems for LS2, 960 gems for LS3, amounts that can be obtained via in game gold or less than US$30 for LS2-3 tl;dr no, it's not "absurd", it's just one of many possibilities. Not the best one, of course, but far, far from being the worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian.4857 Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 > @"MarkoNS.3261" said: > living story is free if you log in once when the episode is active, if you cant log in for 10 sec once in a month or more you deserve to pay. just my opinion, what is not ok is the mount and glider skins those are out of control. Never thought I haven't played the game back then? I logged in during season 4 so far and I would have logged in back then as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian.4857 Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 > @"IndigoSundown.5419" said: > When reading posts like the OP's, I find myself wondering whether ANet should have bundled LW episodes with the XPac's. For instance: > > HoT (original): $50 > HoT + LS2: $60 > PoF: $30 > PoF + LS3: $40 > PoF + HoT + LS2 + LS3: $65 > > Using this method, they could still offer the current season in the same fashion they do now, and still sell LW seasons in the store (which can be gained via gold). Perhaps the additional (cash only) alternative would offer some perspective and make the gold option seem more attractive. > > As to the question in the thread title... No, I don't find a business asking people to pay for its products absurd. Neither do I find it absurd for said business to offer some product for free as a loyalty reward to ongoing customers. The former practice is universal, the latter fairly common. I paid for their product, I bought both expansions with money I made working, I never said game developers should give their games away for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian.4857 Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > 30 eur every 2 years, yet complaining for everything. Yuk. People that talk before they think. Yuk. You probably don't understand so let me tell you, I bought both expansions, how did you reach the conclusion that I didn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian.4857 Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 > @"Danikat.8537" said: > I think there would definitely be a benefit to offering a bundle where you can buy everything together (or at least each expansion with its relevant Living Story season), but I don't find it strange that we have to pay for them. > > In any other game the Living Story would be called DLC, everyone would have to buy it and no one would think twice about it. But because they came up with a new name and for some reason give each release a promotional period when it's free people expect it to always be free for everyone. > > If I had to choose I'd actually rather they charged everyone for the actual content and included more cosmetics for free. That would be closer to what I think of as the normal system where you buy a game if you want to play it. I do not know the scales of these living world seasons, but they don't seem exactly like DLC's, for example in Witcher 3 both DLCs are just side stories, they are large scale and worth the price but if you don't buy them you still have the main story from start to finish and you do not need to pay extra to see what happens, but Living World seasons sound like essential parts of the story, they are not branching off from the main one, the story from Heart of Thorns is a direct continuation of the second season, missing out on one breaks the whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shirlias.8104 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 > @"Adrian.4857" said: > > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > 30 eur every 2 years, yet complaining for everything. Yuk. > > People that talk before they think. Yuk. > > You probably don't understand so let me tell you, I bought both expansions, how did you reach the conclusion that I didn't? Did i say anything about the fact that you did purchase any expansion or not? No. I just said that people complain in a game where the only fee is the expansion, which occours every 2 years. Now you are complaining about something which has been the way it is since years, and has its sense. Good luck with it, and btw nice try but still not enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian.4857 Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 > @"Lexi.1398" said: > For all the content you can get in one season 3 episode (a huge map and lots of achieves, collections, and even good exotic/ascended gear), 400 gems (100 gold) for two episodes is a steal. Spend a few hours in silverwastes or istan metas or fractal dailies and you'll have them unlocked pretty quick. You don't get as much from season 2 episodes but they're worth it just for mastery points imo. If you just want story, youtube is there. > > Also: "(Who the hell is Taimi? Who is Elen Kiel? I never met them, all I can do is read about them on the internet)" - even if you buy the living season episodes you won't understand this because you meet them in LS1 as far as i understand it. Why should I watch youtube to see the story when I paid for both expansions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 > @"Adrian.4857" said: > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > @"Adrian.4857" said: > > > To be more precise, I can also grind until I get the gold but it would be 800 gold and that is a lot of grinding (The only reason why I started playing PvP was for the gold). I bought this game so I can play occasionally and enjoy the story, not to grind or try to become the best at PvP, and having Living World seasons 1 and 2 locked because you need to pay or grind your time away just takes he whole fun away, why should I pay more to do the story? I can understand asking to pay for cosmetics, but asking the players to pay for the story is lower than what EA did. Path of Fire is what convinced me to buy the game, the landscapes were super awesome, the mounts were fantastic (I actually used a level 80 boost so I could get the mount for my main character) and the story seemed interesting, and unfortunately I was unable to do the story or even step foot in the Crystal Desert with my main because skipping a big chunk of the story does not only ruin it, but it leaves you super confused (Who the hell is Taimi? Who is Elen Kiel? I never met them, all I can do is read about them on the internet). > > > So yeah, bottom line is: you should make the story free, that's the right thing to do. > > > > I would like your house for free. > > > > The bottom line is: youu should make the property free, that's the right thing to do. > > This is not about handouts, I am not trying to bring back communism, I didn't ask for free stuff, I am asking for fairness, I paid for both expansions, you'd expect all of the living world seasons from back then to be included, I would have logged in for those if I played back then, and I did log in for the ones in season 4. This is just a good way to keep new players away from the game because they missed out on those chapters and now they gotta pay more than the others. You pay for a game, you get the story, I can understand cosmetics, and all kinds of bonuses, but locking the story is absurd. But yeah, go ahead and jump to conclusions and make dumb analogies. > > > Those items are products that ANet sells. The company provides for multiple payment options: 1) you can pay with time by logging in during the release period for each chapter. 2) you can pay with time by converting gold to gems and buying from the gemstore. 3) you can pay with money, buying gems with real money to spend in the gemstore. You are asking for the products to be provided to you without any of the accepted forms of payment. That is asking for a handout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian.4857 Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > @"Adrian.4857" said: > > > @"Shirlias.8104" said: > > > 30 eur every 2 years, yet complaining for everything. Yuk. > > > > People that talk before they think. Yuk. > > > > You probably don't understand so let me tell you, I bought both expansions, how did you reach the conclusion that I didn't? > > Did i say anything about the fact that you did purchase any expansion or not? > No. > > I just said that people complain in a game where the only fee is the expansion, which occours every 2 years. > Now you are complaining about something which has been the way it is since years, and has its sense. > > Good luck with it, and btw nice try but still not enough. You just said the only fee is the expansion, yet the whole discussion is about how you have to pay extra for the main story which should be included in the price of both expansions right?. What you get instead, if you are new to the game, is around half of the story and if you want it whole you need to pay extra, Arena Net should have let you know that if you want the full story you will have to pay extra, I wouldn't have bought the game if I knew that, or at least I would have known how things really are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobrakon.3108 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 When you think about it, it makes perfect market sense. People will come check out the game because of a new living story. They will atleast show up to unlock it for free instead of thinking they will do it some day. Then those who have been away from the game longer will have to chalk up some gems. One helps maintain player base, the other gives a bit of revenue. Nothing wrong there especially without a monthly subscription fee. You have to look at this like the daily rewards: Incentivizing coming back to the game and keeping the player base intact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrilana.1396 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 > @"Adrian.4857" said: > > @"Lexi.1398" said: > > For all the content you can get in one season 3 episode (a huge map and lots of achieves, collections, and even good exotic/ascended gear), 400 gems (100 gold) for two episodes is a steal. Spend a few hours in silverwastes or istan metas or fractal dailies and you'll have them unlocked pretty quick. You don't get as much from season 2 episodes but they're worth it just for mastery points imo. If you just want story, youtube is there. > > > > Also: "(Who the hell is Taimi? Who is Elen Kiel? I never met them, all I can do is read about them on the internet)" - even if you buy the living season episodes you won't understand this because you meet them in LS1 as far as i understand it. > > Why should I watch youtube to see the story when I paid for both expansions? Because the story in the living story episodes are not part of the expansion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian.4857 Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > I've never paid to play any part of Living Story or World. . . . Because you started playing when those seasons came out, I bought it this summer, of course I don't have those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 At this point, I'm hoping for the OP to re-read the replies allowing for the possibility that they might change their mind. Perhaps they will come to a different conclusion, perhaps not. Currently, though, it's clear that the OP has a set opinion about ANet's choice of how to profit from new content and that they aren't (currently) willing to consider any other point of view. As I said [above](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/359116/#Comment_359116), > no, it's not "absurd", it's just one of many possibilities. Not the best one, of course, but far, far from being the worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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