Season 10 Matchmaker

[Alatar.7364]

Thank you Ben and Cal (and others involved) for trying to make things better.

I for one, noticed a quality increased in Matches.

The only Flaw now is that one team can get two Scourges and the other team one Reaper (*cough cough*), but at least that is not Matchmakers fault, such issue is now up to Balance.

Thank you once more.

[Ithilwen.1529]

High volatility to separate ranks quickly is essentially the same theory that was used to justify deliberately unbalanced matches. It was allowed to run two full seasons of very one sided matches and it **demonstrably did not work.**

 

*I have not seen a single even match yet this season.*

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/941rh7kwz2ne2yg/gw010a.jpg?dl=0

 

[Yukio blaster.9082]

## Spend some time to make the MMR to:

1. Consider build's and remove the possibility to swap in game so they don't messed up the MMR .

* FB>core gard or DH

* scourge>reaper or core necro

* druid with healing amulet>druid with power amulet

2. A good balance would make pvp a lot more pleasant.

* Condi mirage reduce the damage by 1/3, and make axe 2 to be more a mobility skill and add more range for axe 3 .

* Scourge reduce the corruption ability's by 2/3 .

* Firebrand reduce the stability by 2/3 and self heal by 1/3.

* Druid remove the ability to swap pets if the actual pet is dead or the druid is in combat and druid should play without a pet if the pet is dead until he get out of combat , this will force the bunker druid to get off node if the pet is dead and will change the meta to some other pets with low damage and more survivability.

* Core Thief reduce the damage of the unblockable by 1/3 .

3. The games should be :

* Bronze can play with all bronze (the farming community and bots ).

* Silver 1 and 2 with the range of 200(low silver 1 can play against high silver 2).

* Silver 3 with gold 1 the same range 200 (low silver 3 can play against high gold 1).

* Gold 2 and gold 3 again same range 200 (low gold 2 can play against high gold 3)

* Plat 1 should play with only plat 1

* Pat 2 should only play with plat 2

* Plat 3 and a legendary are considered the same (plat 3 with a rating of 1701 can face a legendary with a rating of 2099) no plat 2 in those games .

> If this is made i'm sure the games gonna be amazing if no lag or dc, and yes this would make the Q time a bit longer depends on the number of players available, for off season the Q time gonna be a lot more .

## Spend some time to change the PVP to:

1. Make a permanent rating for more than250 games, reset the games count for everyone and keep the seasonal rating until the vast majority of the PVP community get to the demanded games then remove the seasonal ranking games and make it permanent and reduce the gold rewords by 1/3 then remove the duo Q possibility for plat1 (gold 3 can still duo q).

2. Add a GvG rating in (unranked) 5v5 10v10 15v15 to be something like this (top 25 guilds in 5v5 are : .... top 25 guilds in 10v10 are : )it's guild wars after all.

3. Add a death match 50 player+ big map that minimise overtime (for fun unranked) the maps are the wvw homelands no need for new maps at the start.---make this for short period of time 1 day per week or in the weekends .

4. Add 2v2 tournaments and add a guild vs guild monthly 15 vs 15(last weekend every month) .

5. Add tournaments notice in the screen if you are in the PVP lobby 15min before it starts( a lot of pvpers miss the tournament because there is no notice about it) .

 

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[Cyczer.7834]

Seems its still broken, out of 10 games I played today 9 had multiple classes stacked in same team.

[rank eleven monk.9502]

> @"Cyczer.7834" said:

> Seems its still broken, out of 10 games I played today 9 had multiple classes stacked in same team.

Seems you still don't really understand the concept of the system.

> @"Cal Cohen.3527" said:

> The matcher considers all compositions with unique profession differences up to 2 (i.e. 2v0 and 3v1 are both viable choices) and picks the best based on ratings. Our first test in unranked used a limit of 1 (1v1 and 2v2 splits only), but this is a pretty harsh restriction and ended up creating worse matches in many cases. We relaxed the limit to 2 early last week in unranked and saw additional improvements in matchmaking, so that's what we went with moving forward.

 

[Milivoy.4630]

> @"xiProdigyx.9138" said:

> Thank you ANET for that change you made. The matches are playable again. Haven't had 3 of the same class in my matches since the change! :)

 

Youre jocking right? This was one of my placement games at first day

https://i.imgur.com/zTQxIqQ.jpg

and next one was this

https://i.imgur.com/83F7GN7.jpg

[Meteor.3720]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> We made a quick change to the new matchmaker to not allow one team to have more than +1 of a class. Example: You should now never see 2 Scourge vs 0 Scourge. You could see 2 scourge vs 1 scourge. However, as has been previously noted, people can class swap during warmup to get by this restriction.

 

So Devs can hotfix a particular issue that has been raised since Tuesday evening, but then at the same time say they haven't had enough time to fix issues (i.e. balance) that have been raised since the release of PoF 4 months ago? ...

Yes we understand that balance is more complicated than changing a small matchup point, but given the state of balance at the moment I'm sure people would have appreciated small hotfixes to scourge/FB/mirage/holo dodge asap even if a full balance patch wasn't ready to launch.

 

Also I know you don't deal with balance Ben, but seeing as those Devs never communicate with the PvP community, we have to go through you.

[HealAlNite.9658]

Anet should stop listening to the people crying in forums about the matchmaker and analyze their data. For me, the fact that the same group of players keep consistently getting the top 100 spots in the leaderboards every season shows that matchmaker is irrelevant.

 

But i guess its easier for Anet to accept that every problem in pvp is caused by the matchmaker so they can focus in one thing and ignore others. Does anet actually needs a team changing the matchmaker every season because people cant stop complaining about it? Come on, you can do better.

 

 

[xiProdigyx.9138]

> @"Milivoy.4630" said:

> > @"xiProdigyx.9138" said:

> > Thank you ANET for that change you made. The matches are playable again. Haven't had 3 of the same class in my matches since the change! :)

>

> Youre jocking right? This was one of my placement games at first day

> https://i.imgur.com/zTQxIqQ.jpg

> and next one was this

> https://i.imgur.com/83F7GN7.jpg

 

Did you bother to queue up last night or just post your screenshots from the first day? If you bothered to read the thread at all you would see the change occurred yesterday afternoon. I have had zero matches with 3 of the same class since the change. Learn to read and spell it will help you in life.

[Cyczer.7834]

To be fair there is no difference between first day and today. I still getting 2-3 necroes stacking in same team while my team doesnt even have a single one, or mostly we have another stacked class.

[Nightmare.1234]

I've always wondered if the match maker is actually able to tell apart the professions from their elite specs. I am all for class stacking if it was only one elite spec per team so you could have a core ranger and a druid with a scourge and reaper on same team as they both have different play styles. but if I was to guess your system cant do this or we would have the squad icons with the correct specs showing. is it a technical limitation or just something that never got coded when elite specs where created. queue times would be better with a bigger pool of specs it could even force people to use different specs to get a match if most people just queuing with scourges and firebrands since you only be allowed one per team. also swapping at start of matches should just be removed.

 

next issue would be balancing to get the most frequent used professions (elites) less favourable to increase variety.

[xiProdigyx.9138]

> @"Cyczer.7834" said:

> To be fair there is no difference between first day and today. I still getting 2-3 necroes stacking in same team while my team doesn't even have a single one, or mostly we have another stacked class.

 

Unless someone changed to a Necro before the match started, I highly doubt 3 Necros were put there by the matchmaking. 2 is completely normal. Since the change I have not had 3 stacked classes on either side in any match. I've played more than 20 matches since the algorithm change.

[Deth.1698]

@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" @"Cal Cohen.3527" Was playing last night and I have to say that the MM was working very well actually. Never got into a 2:0 scourge match. it was either 2 necro vs 2 necro or 2v1. Same with Mesmers. Even though I got into a match where one player literally sat out 50 points causing a loss. For the several games I played yesterday, I like the changes!

[xiGenocidex.2853]

So let me get this straight.

You people don't want Others to be able to switch after a que pop?

You people don't want us PVPer's to have more then 2 on a team?

I don't get it you drove off the real pvp'ers and turned it into PVE which is BS!

Why can't we have some seasons were we can have 3 people on a team again or god forbid 5 man teams again?

It would be nice to be able to control a match again then watch people fight off point the whole match or tell everyone to run in a zerg at the start of the match.

 

And since the fix ANET did I haven't had 3 on a side anymore.

 

[bud.9246]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> We made a quick change to the new matchmaker to not allow one team to have more than +1 of a class. Example: You should now never see 2 Scourge vs 0 Scourge. You could see 2 scourge vs 1 scourge. However, as has been previously noted, people can class swap during warmup to get by this restriction.

 

People in favor of class swapping before matches are boofs who are inflexible and incapable of adapting to new and different situations. They always have to be able to play that trump card or they start losing it. It's sad and not really the fun part of the game.

[Aden.9306]

You know lately most of my matches are decent. Its almost like people make super bad plays; that cause games to go south like push far and die, feed mid, or my favorite fight til death and don't disengage. It's even better when its a losing match up too! :D Also the lost art of peeling for other players. And my personal favorite misplay is when people team-fight Firebrand & Scourge when they have none while matchmaker gave them the perfect "sides" composition.

 

PS: Research: Portal plays

PS: Research: Stealth before mid and burst Necromancer or some other soft target.

PS: Research: Key-binds

PS: Research: Skill-Clicking

PS: Why does sliver and gold players blame everyone else an whine on the forums(I recognize great players post here too, not talking about you people); when the poor plat player has't to carry the game.

PS: If your below Plat 2 don't even post on the forums about balance cause you know nothing about the game let alone your own class.

PS: Plat 2 players are not balance experts either.^

PS: Don't 1v1 a Firebrand when he has the capture point at mid and wonder? Yep definitely over powered needs nerfing. I'm not at all wasting my time in this at all. It's almost like 2 heavy hitting classes could kill the firebrand real-quick but we hate winning so.......

PS: Learn from your betters instead of crying on the forums.

PS: If you die more than 2 times in a game your dragging your team down.

PS: Granted, all ways try not to die but hey! reasonable goals.

PS: You can't always Bunk! Your way to victory.

PS: Firebrand is not a I win consistent carry class due to your pugs not being able to fight, which sadly is the majority of the player base.

 

[zealex.9410]

Why should arena net further complicate their mm to have it match the same elite against eachother? A player should see when hes at a disadvantage in his current setup and change his loadout. What anet should do is show the elite spec icons tho for when someone has joined a match with one and update then live when the player cahnges it before the match starts.

 

Cut the bs about the mm needing to identify weak matchups thats part of being good at the game.

[zealex.9410]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> We made a quick change to the new matchmaker to not allow one team to have more than +1 of a class. Example: You should now never see 2 Scourge vs 0 Scourge. You could see 2 scourge vs 1 scourge. However, as has been previously noted, people can class swap during warmup to get by this restriction.

 

Is it not possible to not allow ppl to swap to the same class if its gonna break teh +1 rule?

[zealex.9410]

> @"Aenaos.8160" said:

> But since this new MM rule can so easily be circumvented,and players can exploit it

> and stack classes,doesn't it make it short of mandatory to exploit and class stack,and

> doesn't this place everyone who's not willing to use the exploit at a disadvantage?

> That's a rhetorical question.

 

Its not an exploit the devs are awere of it and its working as they intent it to. The draft period is an equally importand part of the match.

[corey.6451]

> @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > @"Cal Cohen.3527" said:

> > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > Zoop and I also had a match where we were placed against 4x Scourges. These people did not swap classes, it just loaded in 4x Scourges against our team that had no Scourges or Firebrands. Needless to say, we lost that match. What felt bad though, is that we were mulching these Scourges all match. Our team seriously outplayed the 4x Scourge team. But because it was a team of 4x Scourges, to be able to kill them, we couldn't stand on the nodes. The 4x Scourge team won the match by repeatedly dying, respawning and walking onto nodes to keep us off nodes, despite the fact that they were being farmed for kills.

> > >

> > > I think that match may have been the biggest demonstration of an imbalanced meta and now imbalanced game mode in general, that I have personally witnessed in all the years of Guild Wars 2.

> > >

> > > **Do not allow class stacking like that if you don't plan on balancing the intra-class dynamics.**

> > >

> >

> > This should literally never happen if no one swapped. I'll track down the match tomorrow and see what's up

>

> 

> 

>

> My first 2 ranked games for the season, no swapsies.

>

> It's happening quite a bit.

>

 

Oh man. Guard and necro master race. This happen after hot release too. So funny those xD.

 

I think to be safe, we all should second main either guard or necro, for the next expansion. Same for wvw people too. BRING ON THE GUARDCRO WAR 2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lilypop.7819]

Maybe better to allow any degree of stacking but a player could select one and only one class they don't what to see in the other team. This approach would punish classes considered OP by ranked players and fix any perceived balance issues - ie OPish classes would have longer Q=times, no effect on PvE Balance ofc.

 

If PvP was balanced the class selection would be random and the mechanism would have no effect on Q=times.

[Crinn.7864]

> @"Trendy.1694" said:

>

>

> > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > We made a quick change to the new matchmaker to not allow one team to have more than +1 of a class. Example: You should now never see 2 Scourge vs 0 Scourge. You could see 2 scourge vs 1 scourge. However, as has been previously noted, people can class swap during warmup to get by this restriction.

>

> You are saying scourge, but it is actually necro, right? It is not bound to elites?

 

The matchmaker does not account for elites as far as I know.

 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> Thank you for the feedback Cal & Ben. Despite wouldbe snarky responses, players do appreciate interaction from the anet team. I'd like to point out that the match maker works great when it is working as intended. You guys have done a great job on that. The major problems with match making occur when players exploit the match making system and deny it of its purpose, "such as logging off the character they loaded in as, and logging back in with something else, to avoid the anti class stacking feature" or "running alt account match manipulation tactics".

>

> I'm sure you are limited in what exactly you can do to solve these issues but if there were any way to discourage such behavior rather than allowing it to be so easy to do, focusing development on those issues would in my opinion be the most effective route towards increasing the quality of match making.

 

I'd like to point out that what I mean by this is not suspensions & bans. I mean some kind of functional in-game developments that discourage these types of things from being so easy to do. Things such as:

* When 4 or 5 accounts hit the que button at the same time, for more than 2 or 3 matches in a row, if the same accounts happen to be doing this over and over, the server should be able to see this and stop placing them in the same match together.

* When the same 4 or 5 IPs keep landing in the same match whether on the same team or not, the server should recognize this and stop placing them in matches together. In fact, it should record all of this history from the entire season and if it looks suspicious, those IPs should never be in the same matches together. It could have some kind of timer like a DR that burns off gradually.

* Add a function that plainly stops a player from logging in as a class that there is already 2 of in his team. <- This one really needs to be implemented.

 

Cutting out even a marginally small amount of the match manipulations like 20% to 30% would make a huge difference In the quality of matches.

Just ideas, if anyone else has anything to add, please do.

 

[primatos.5413]

not that i play pvp that much but could balancing the classes proper help to fix class stacking ? ^^

[rwolf.9571]

> @"primatos.5413" said:

> not that i play pvp that much but could balancing the classes proper help to fix class stacking ? ^^

 

There will always be a OP meta class that ppl will flock to. -> more population playing those classes -> stacking.

In theory if every class was equal, but that would be impossible to balance.