JayAction.9056 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 > @"Majirah.5089" said: > I can’t take you seriously if you honestly think pistol whips initiative cost needs doubled. How about we make shackling wave cost 80 energy? That basically saying the same thing. ... It's not the same thing. Apples to race cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majirah.5089 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 > @"JayAction.9056" said: > > @"Majirah.5089" said: > > > I can’t take you seriously if you honestly think pistol whips initiative cost needs doubled. How about we make shackling wave cost 80 energy? That basically saying the same thing. > > ... It's not the same thing. Apples to race cars. > > You are right. The revenant wouldn’t be as adversely affected with that change as sword pistol thief would be with yours. It is an apt comparison though. Revenant need energy to use skills. Thieves need initiative to use theirs. You want one skill on thief to use up 66-83% of their resource depending on if they have trickery or not. That is just stupid. Just like it would be stupid for a single revenant skill to use 80% of their resource. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayAction.9056 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 > @"Majirah.5089" said: > > @"JayAction.9056" said: > > > @"Majirah.5089" said: > > > > > I can’t take you seriously if you honestly think pistol whips initiative cost needs doubled. How about we make shackling wave cost 80 energy? That basically saying the same thing. > > > > ... It's not the same thing. Apples to race cars. > > > > > > You are right. The revenant wouldn’t be as adversely affected with that change as sword pistol thief would be with yours. It is an apt comparison though. Revenant need energy to use skills. Thieves need initiative to use theirs. You want one skill on thief to use up 66-83% of their resource depending on if they have trickery or not. That is just stupid. Just like it would be stupid for a single revenant skill to use 80% of their resource. Apples to race cars. Thief has a full bar of initiative. Rev has 50 energy and cool downs. Rev *already* has *multiple* skills the use 75-100% of their energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vieux P.1238 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 > @"Meridian.9103" said: > I think this is a nice write up so far and i want to add some thoughts. > > Mirage: > Another thing that adds to mirages strength is The trait Elusive Mind. The ability to break stun on every dodge is too good leaves mesmers unpunished too often. I suggest changing the stunbreak to the removal of a movement impairing condition. > > Firebrand and Tempest: > Right now FB does everything better than tempest and i am all for defining individual strengths and weaknesses. My suggestion is to reduce the healing of Firebrands, so that its support comes even more from damage mitigation via Aegis, Resistance a.s.o.. On the other hand, define Tempest as the stronger healer, that in turn leaves the group and himself a little more vulnerable. Plus support tempest needs access to stab, that i see as mandatory. I sadly cannot give more specific skill or trait recommendations to these classes. > > Druid: > Signet of Stone is a skill that makes druid so strong to survive in many situations. Either reduce the duration or increase the cooldown of it so it creates nore windows of beeing vulnerable. > > Scourge: > Shades need a casting time with animation. Period. Only then it will offer play and counterplay. Together with nerfs to boon corruption and Firebrands support Scourge will be in a much better spot then now. > > If you gonna nerf Elusive minds that's keeping Mirage alive in melee combat then you gonna have severely compensate with unconditional power & condi damage output. Cuz with out Elusive minds, mirage is just another dead mesmer & just dies instantly. So Mirage might as well kill a few instantly before they go down in 0.5 sec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayAction.9056 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 > @"Vieux P.1238" said: > > @"Meridian.9103" said: > > I think this is a nice write up so far and i want to add some thoughts. > > > > Mirage: > > Another thing that adds to mirages strength is The trait Elusive Mind. The ability to break stun on every dodge is too good leaves mesmers unpunished too often. I suggest changing the stunbreak to the removal of a movement impairing condition. > > > > Firebrand and Tempest: > > Right now FB does everything better than tempest and i am all for defining individual strengths and weaknesses. My suggestion is to reduce the healing of Firebrands, so that its support comes even more from damage mitigation via Aegis, Resistance a.s.o.. On the other hand, define Tempest as the stronger healer, that in turn leaves the group and himself a little more vulnerable. Plus support tempest needs access to stab, that i see as mandatory. I sadly cannot give more specific skill or trait recommendations to these classes. > > > > Druid: > > Signet of Stone is a skill that makes druid so strong to survive in many situations. Either reduce the duration or increase the cooldown of it so it creates nore windows of beeing vulnerable. > > > > Scourge: > > Shades need a casting time with animation. Period. Only then it will offer play and counterplay. Together with nerfs to boon corruption and Firebrands support Scourge will be in a much better spot then now. > > > > > > If you gonna nerf Elusive minds that's keeping Mirage alive in melee combat then you gonna have severely compensate with unconditional power & condi damage output. Cuz with out Elusive minds, mirage is just another dead mesmer & just dies instantly. So Mirage might as well kill a few instantly before they go down in 0.5 sec. Or you can learn to use stealth? No? Dang :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witcher.3197 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 > @"Majirah.5089" said: > Just like it would be stupid for a single revenant skill to use 80% of their resource. There are revenant skills that consume up to 100% of their starting energy pool, actually. Like Jade Winds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 > @"Vallun.2071" said: > You gotta be joking man. Rev squishier and less utility than thief? Squishier? No, but rev mobility does not allow it to be compared to thief. Rev is more comprable to guardian or warrior. Both are much better in most scenarios. And in a +1 I would rather have a thief or a mesmer. Also, both herald and shiro heals have significant issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vieux P.1238 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 > @"JayAction.9056" said: > > @"Vieux P.1238" said: > > > @"Meridian.9103" said: > > > I think this is a nice write up so far and i want to add some thoughts. > > > > > > Mirage: > > > Another thing that adds to mirages strength is The trait Elusive Mind. The ability to break stun on every dodge is too good leaves mesmers unpunished too often. I suggest changing the stunbreak to the removal of a movement impairing condition. > > > > > > Firebrand and Tempest: > > > Right now FB does everything better than tempest and i am all for defining individual strengths and weaknesses. My suggestion is to reduce the healing of Firebrands, so that its support comes even more from damage mitigation via Aegis, Resistance a.s.o.. On the other hand, define Tempest as the stronger healer, that in turn leaves the group and himself a little more vulnerable. Plus support tempest needs access to stab, that i see as mandatory. I sadly cannot give more specific skill or trait recommendations to these classes. > > > > > > Druid: > > > Signet of Stone is a skill that makes druid so strong to survive in many situations. Either reduce the duration or increase the cooldown of it so it creates nore windows of beeing vulnerable. > > > > > > Scourge: > > > Shades need a casting time with animation. Period. Only then it will offer play and counterplay. Together with nerfs to boon corruption and Firebrands support Scourge will be in a much better spot then now. > > > > > > > > > > If you gonna nerf Elusive minds that's keeping Mirage alive in melee combat then you gonna have severely compensate with unconditional power & condi damage output. Cuz with out Elusive minds, mirage is just another dead mesmer & just dies instantly. So Mirage might as well kill a few instantly before they go down in 0.5 sec. > > Or you can learn to use stealth? No? > > Dang > > :( > Yes, & i also learn how i still get hit from every class when i go into stealth & often die if i have no evasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayAction.9056 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 > @"Vieux P.1238" said: > > @"JayAction.9056" said: > > > @"Vieux P.1238" said: > > > > @"Meridian.9103" said: > > > > I think this is a nice write up so far and i want to add some thoughts. > > > > > > > > Mirage: > > > > Another thing that adds to mirages strength is The trait Elusive Mind. The ability to break stun on every dodge is too good leaves mesmers unpunished too often. I suggest changing the stunbreak to the removal of a movement impairing condition. > > > > > > > > Firebrand and Tempest: > > > > Right now FB does everything better than tempest and i am all for defining individual strengths and weaknesses. My suggestion is to reduce the healing of Firebrands, so that its support comes even more from damage mitigation via Aegis, Resistance a.s.o.. On the other hand, define Tempest as the stronger healer, that in turn leaves the group and himself a little more vulnerable. Plus support tempest needs access to stab, that i see as mandatory. I sadly cannot give more specific skill or trait recommendations to these classes. > > > > > > > > Druid: > > > > Signet of Stone is a skill that makes druid so strong to survive in many situations. Either reduce the duration or increase the cooldown of it so it creates nore windows of beeing vulnerable. > > > > > > > > Scourge: > > > > Shades need a casting time with animation. Period. Only then it will offer play and counterplay. Together with nerfs to boon corruption and Firebrands support Scourge will be in a much better spot then now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you gonna nerf Elusive minds that's keeping Mirage alive in melee combat then you gonna have severely compensate with unconditional power & condi damage output. Cuz with out Elusive minds, mirage is just another dead mesmer & just dies instantly. So Mirage might as well kill a few instantly before they go down in 0.5 sec. > > > > Or you can learn to use stealth? No? > > > > Dang > > > > :( > > > > Yes, & i also learn how i still get hit from every class when i go into stealth & often die if i have no evasion. So you can't win without multiple invulns on top of stealth and already extremely op damage? :( Dang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majirah.5089 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 > @"witcher.3197" said: > > @"Majirah.5089" said: > > Just like it would be stupid for a single revenant skill to use 80% of their resource. > > There are revenant skills that consume up to 100% of their starting energy pool, actually. Like Jade Winds. > Jade winds does use 50, which is not 100% of the pool (starting yes, but you can go over that in combat as I’m sure you are aware). None of revenant weapon skills use of that much though. The most a weapon skill costs is 15 (or 20 aquatic). When they did cost more people were up in arms about it (rightly so). I personally wish that they would change the utility skills a bit, but that is a different matter. It’s not a perfect comparison, but it is close enough to make the point. It’s stupid for revenant skills (weapons or otherwise) to cost an absurd amount of energy just like it is stupid for a thief weapon skill to cost an absurd amount of initiative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeepBoopBop.5403 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 > @"Vallun.2071" said: > > @"JayAction.9056" said: > > > @"Vallun.2071" said: > > > You gotta be joking man. Rev squishier and less utility than thief? > > > > Yeah what makes it tankier? Heavy armor lol? Or the heal that can be completely outplayed? > > > > Thieves cant even go near a team fight without instantly being CC and condi bombed. Revs can go inside team fights much longer especially with support they can make use of their life steal. Not sure what ur issue is, like not using the meta build or you're only 1v1ing, but just watch a good rev twitch.tv/jonasdon1 Lol wut. 500hp POSSIBLY per second stolen from attacking enemies with vulnerability/from behind. Sick sustain. Not to mention the vulnerability uptime has been nerfed from Expose Defenses trait nerf, resulting in less life steal uptime. Can I argue Daredevil has killer sustain from heal on evade trait? What about the fact that power revenant has 2 easily deniable heals? Do revenants not get CC'd and condition bombed in your world? How about we compare how revenants can respond to conditions and CC (Infuse Light or die) vs how thieves can respond to conditions and CC with shadowstep and signet of agility? If your world consists of everyone bombing the thief instantly and revenants with long team fight longevity, you might be a thief main. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeepBoopBop.5403 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 > @"Majirah.5089" said: > > @"witcher.3197" said: > > > @"Majirah.5089" said: > > > Just like it would be stupid for a single revenant skill to use 80% of their resource. > > > > There are revenant skills that consume up to 100% of their starting energy pool, actually. Like Jade Winds. > > > > Jade winds does use 50, which is not 100% of the pool (starting yes, but you can go over that in combat as I’m sure you are aware). None of revenant weapon skills use of that much though. The most a weapon skill costs is 15 (or 20 aquatic). When they did cost more people were up in arms about it (rightly so). I personally wish that they would change the utility skills a bit, but that is a different matter. > > It’s not a perfect comparison, but it is close enough to make the point. It’s stupid for revenant skills (weapons or otherwise) to cost an absurd amount of energy just like it is stupid for a thief weapon skill to cost an absurd amount of initiative. Idk why you typed all that when you just had to point out that revenant energy resets every 10s on swap, thief initiative does not. You can never compare the difference in resource costs because of that detail, as well as the fact that revenant energy also covers utilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vieux P.1238 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 > @"JayAction.9056" said: > > @"Vieux P.1238" said: > > > @"JayAction.9056" said: > > > > @"Vieux P.1238" said: > > > > > @"Meridian.9103" said: > > > > > I think this is a nice write up so far and i want to add some thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > Mirage: > > > > > Another thing that adds to mirages strength is The trait Elusive Mind. The ability to break stun on every dodge is too good leaves mesmers unpunished too often. I suggest changing the stunbreak to the removal of a movement impairing condition. > > > > > > > > > > Firebrand and Tempest: > > > > > Right now FB does everything better than tempest and i am all for defining individual strengths and weaknesses. My suggestion is to reduce the healing of Firebrands, so that its support comes even more from damage mitigation via Aegis, Resistance a.s.o.. On the other hand, define Tempest as the stronger healer, that in turn leaves the group and himself a little more vulnerable. Plus support tempest needs access to stab, that i see as mandatory. I sadly cannot give more specific skill or trait recommendations to these classes. > > > > > > > > > > Druid: > > > > > Signet of Stone is a skill that makes druid so strong to survive in many situations. Either reduce the duration or increase the cooldown of it so it creates nore windows of beeing vulnerable. > > > > > > > > > > Scourge: > > > > > Shades need a casting time with animation. Period. Only then it will offer play and counterplay. Together with nerfs to boon corruption and Firebrands support Scourge will be in a much better spot then now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you gonna nerf Elusive minds that's keeping Mirage alive in melee combat then you gonna have severely compensate with unconditional power & condi damage output. Cuz with out Elusive minds, mirage is just another dead mesmer & just dies instantly. So Mirage might as well kill a few instantly before they go down in 0.5 sec. > > > > > > Or you can learn to use stealth? No? > > > > > > Dang > > > > > > :( > > > > > > > Yes, & i also learn how i still get hit from every class when i go into stealth & often die if i have no evasion. > > So you can't win without multiple invulns on top of stealth and already extremely op damage? > > :( > > Dang > no! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majirah.5089 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > @"Majirah.5089" said: > > > @"witcher.3197" said: > > > > @"Majirah.5089" said: > > > > Just like it would be stupid for a single revenant skill to use 80% of their resource. > > > > > > There are revenant skills that consume up to 100% of their starting energy pool, actually. Like Jade Winds. > > > > > > > Jade winds does use 50, which is not 100% of the pool (starting yes, but you can go over that in combat as I’m sure you are aware). None of revenant weapon skills use of that much though. The most a weapon skill costs is 15 (or 20 aquatic). When they did cost more people were up in arms about it (rightly so). I personally wish that they would change the utility skills a bit, but that is a different matter. > > > > It’s not a perfect comparison, but it is close enough to make the point. It’s stupid for revenant skills (weapons or otherwise) to cost an absurd amount of energy just like it is stupid for a thief weapon skill to cost an absurd amount of initiative. > > Idk why you typed all that when you just had to point out that revenant energy resets every 10s on swap, thief initiative does not. You can never compare the difference in resource costs because of that detail, as well as the fact that revenant energy also covers utilities. As I said not a perfect comparison. Either way the point was that 10 initiave on pistol whip is stupid. Could have just stuck with that I guess. Not that it would really matter to me if they increased the cost of it pvp as I don’t use it in pvp. I don’t know why anyone would use it over sword dagger. I’m sure they wouldn’t change it in pve, which is where I use it sometimes. It would still be a stupid change though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vallun.2071 Posted January 17, 2018 Author Share Posted January 17, 2018 > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > @"Vallun.2071" said: > > > @"JayAction.9056" said: > > > > @"Vallun.2071" said: > > > > You gotta be joking man. Rev squishier and less utility than thief? > > > > > > Yeah what makes it tankier? Heavy armor lol? Or the heal that can be completely outplayed? > > > > > > > Thieves cant even go near a team fight without instantly being CC and condi bombed. Revs can go inside team fights much longer especially with support they can make use of their life steal. Not sure what ur issue is, like not using the meta build or you're only 1v1ing, but just watch a good rev twitch.tv/jonasdon1 > > Lol wut. 500hp POSSIBLY per second stolen from attacking enemies with vulnerability/from behind. Sick sustain. Not to mention the vulnerability uptime has been nerfed from Expose Defenses trait nerf, resulting in less life steal uptime. Can I argue Daredevil has killer sustain from heal on evade trait? What about the fact that power revenant has 2 easily deniable heals? > > Do revenants not get CC'd and condition bombed in your world? How about we compare how revenants can respond to conditions and CC (Infuse Light or die) vs how thieves can respond to conditions and CC with shadowstep and signet of agility? If your world consists of everyone bombing the thief instantly and revenants with long team fight longevity, you might be a thief main. you might be a rev main btw haHAA. Apparently you missed the part where I said with support also rev has so many methods of sustaining in team fights. Most of its big hitting abilities evade or create positioning like sword 3 and staff 5, similarly to how a thief stays in a team fight except thief has very bad natural healing, and infused light is very good in team fights and makes up for most of the revs sustain. Not sure why you're up in arms about me saying that rev has better utility and sustain than thief. This is just a fact brother. Thief has better disengage, but that isnt sustain, thats leaving a fight which i never said rev had better mobility? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majirah.5089 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 > @"Vallun.2071" said: > > @"JayAction.9056" said: > > > @"Vallun.2071" said: > > > You gotta be joking man. Rev squishier and less utility than thief? > > > > Yeah what makes it tankier? Heavy armor lol? Or the heal that can be completely outplayed? > > > > Thieves cant even go near a team fight without instantly being CC and condi bombed. Revs can go inside team fights much longer especially with support they can make use of their life steal. Not sure what ur issue is, like not using the meta build or you're only 1v1ing, but just watch a good rev twitch.tv/jonasdon1 I got side tracked with the pistol whip debate. But thought I’d chime in on this. I find revenant to be just as squishy in a team fight as thief. In my experience, neither really has the tools to just stick it out in a team fight. Both have to jump in, take out a weak target, and jump back out before getting obliterated. I honestly have a much easier time in a team fight with core sword dagger thief than any revenant spec I play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zalt.8937 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 > @"Vallun.2071" said: > Ranger > > Druid is without a doubt the best 1v1 class in the game right now. This is due to it having so much sustain from celestial avatar and troll unguent's ability to bridge the gap between each other. This is all fine because druid needs to have a niche for it to be viable, however there should be a way to counter play their sustain and finish them. As it is now, they have stealth on leaving CA and when landing a longbow attack (current meta build for 1v1s on druid uses long bow and sword, staff doesn't pressure current 1v1 matchups hard enough but certainly makes them much harder to kill) There is arguably no way a competent ranger who rotates through their stealth and sustain CDs appropriately should die. Even in 1v2s the ranger can stealth and reset while wasting time for the outnumber. The solution to this i think is to put a much longer cast time on the longbow 3 which stealths them. As it is now it has barely any cast time or animation so there's no way to prevent them from getting into stealth, then when they are in stealth they can freely cast all of their other sustain skills and get their sustain engine running. Also troll unguent should have a longer cast time to make it more interuptable. These changes should keep ranger in its top spot of 1v1er, but make it much easier to stun lock, disrupt, and plus 1 to actually kill. > Both proposed changes would hurt core ranger and sb. I think there is another solution to this; Simply make pets scale with player stats. If you go sustained with healing, your pet gains similar stats and wont hit like a truck, whilst the druid can staff auto and build astal. This is bad play. If one goes full glass so should the pet. In that way, a support druid will remain support and a damage oriented ranger/druid/soulbeast will remain bursty. A lot of damge from the menders druid comes from the pet since they have stats of their own. Should this change ever go live, the pet stats scaled with mender player stats would make the pet damage mediocre and thus lowering the druids damage. Making them not as strong in 1v1 and having to put aside some sustain in order to actually be bursty. All this while NOT gimping core ranger. Regarding celedtial shadow, its a tricky one. But in conjunction with proposed changes to pet stats it wont be so bad since a sustained druid wont be that much of a threat. And if the druid leans toward damage and burst it wont build astral very fast and wont be able to abuse celestial shadow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaogin.2679 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 So far for Druid suggestions I've seen . . . * Nerf Longbow 3 * Nerf Troll Unguent * Nerf Celestial Shadow * Buff Verdant Etching * Nerf Signet of Stone Can we please not punish Ranger and Soulbeast just because Druid has issues? Is anyone really thinking Ranger and Soulbeast are OP and in need of nerfing? If Druid stealth is the problem, then nerf Celestial Shadow. As for Troll Unguent though, I wouldn't argue against increasing the cast time. It is a strong heal when traited, and a 1.25 sec cast time wouldn't kill it, but it would provide better counterplay. Nerfing the healing is completely unnecessary though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Be careful what you suggest as changes. Try to look at balance game-wide, not just for spvp. Right now players should be focusing on the major issues and not the minor ones. AKA: OP Firebrand Support - OP Scourge Condi which is mainly due to mass AoE boon conversions - OP Mirage Condi pressure in 1v1s considering its wide variety of utility and high survivability. Nothing else even begins to compare to the problems that the above 3 are causing in terms of balance/match making/diversity in choice of what to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link.1049 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 > 2. Thief is more susceptible to being cc'd or condi bombed than rev with all the escapes it has lol? > Yes... why do you think it is that dead thieves always turn up far away from where you last hit them...it's because unless a thief builds HARD for condi clear (sacrificing damage output) then they tend to be awful at clearing conditions. They're hard to hit...but it just takes one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guizao.4167 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 > @"Vallun.2071" said: > While many people are distressed that a balance patch did not come out sooner, many haven't really made any constructive remarks on what specifically should be changed. > > I'm going to try to detail some of the specific mechanics of meta builds that we see all the time that lead to a meta that is uninteractive, that has very little counterplay or skill involved. > > Mesmer > > The meta mirage build specifically involves combining two skills with no animation, jaunt and shatters (clones are good animations, but often the illusionary persona is good enough) to do most of its pressure. Putting some torch burns on top of this combo can do near 1 shots on persons without condi cleanse. The issue is not that they have 1 shot burst potential or that they have enough constant pressure to bait out condi cleanses. It is that most of this has no animation for a class that also has another great mechanic of the mirage cloak. > > So what is the fix for this? Traited torch burns could be lowered from a potential of 7-8 to like 5-6. Landing big burst combos should be rewarding still, but not to the level they are especially when mesmer has access to so many and so constant of cover condis. The internal cd between using stocks of jaunt (not the stock recharge) can be raised and remove 1 stack of confusion from it so that it is used more as a utility skill than a constant burst. > > Engineer - The main problem of interactivity with engineer is the timing of the damage tied to their dodge roll traits. If you compare holosmith to every other dodging trait in the game (daredevil, strength warrior, arcane ele) their effects happen some time after the initial dodge animation. Holo's damage dodge trait happens immediately as they dodge, and can add up to around 8k damage if the positioning is right for the other trait. For one of the highest damaging dodges in the game, it has too little counterplay. Either put the damage component at the end of the dodge (but showing an animation at the beginning of the dodge) or lower the damage done significantly. I prefer changing the timing of the dodge because this allows you to pressure a holo by standing on top of them and then moving in the direction opposite of the way they dodge to avoid the damage. Also possibly make the mines that drop from the explosives trait dodge take half a second to deploy fully. > > Necromancer > > Scourge has tons of corrupts on top of its insane damage output. I think that their damage should remain somewhat the same since they are significantly squishier than reaper (and I would propose some nerfs to firebrand which enables scourge to be so strong). That being said, one of the major problems with scourge is that corruptions are much stronger than boon rip because the conditions they apply are very powerful. I would tone down the durations of ALL conditions that are applied by corrupted boons, this is also more in line with the condition duration nerf a few patches ago, that didn't address corrupts. > > Also scourge has very little animation on their F skills. I like that there are combos for necro enabled because they are instant cast, but perhaps give less reward for spamming the shade skills at once. A 2 or 3 second ICD on dhuumfire and the torment applied by shade skills would promote using shade skills for both their supportive AND their damaging aspects rather than just spamming them all at once when you are sure that they will hit. This also wouldn't reduce the potential overall damage scourges do, it would just promote more interactive play by making the scourge think about what skill they use at the time, and allow the opponent some time to decide whether they can handle the pressure instead of being overloaded all at once. > > Guardian > > Firebrand is by far the best support build to ever exist. Combined with scourge it is the most effective 2v2 comp, and by itself it provides the most for a pure support role. It makes outnumbered situations survivable with the amount of condi cleanse and defensive boon uptime, which greatly reduces the viability of any dps class that doesnt provide tons of damage and corrupts or boon removal. The only counterplays to firebrand plus a scourge (note that firebrand is not very good without scourge because it doesnt have enough killing power and vice versa scourges don't have enough survivability) seem to be: play three point comp and rotate around it and make it be in awkward situations where it needs to kill things (but is obviously unable to help much in that regard), focus it with multiple dps classes, or just play firebrand scourge yourself. The first method requires a massive outplay rotationally and a strategy of "completely avoid this person" which is very uninteractive. The second method is extremely risky for little reward because it means outnumbering with a support class or bringing an inferior 2v2 comp to try to beat a scourge firebrand, and the third is not very fun or interactive for the 4 people forced into the 2v2 as fb scourge vs fb scourge. So how do we overturn the firebrand + scourge combo without making both of the classes terrible individually? Give scourge some more defense and less offense and give firebrand more offense and less defense. Out of all my changes proposed this is the one i'm least confident about. I don't really agree with lowering scourge damage that much or making firebrands be more of a bruiser role. However the issue is that firebrand scourge is not very fun and interactive to play, but will exist because it is the best. So somehow make it not the best or make it more fun to play as and against. > > Thief > > The main meta counter for thieves right now is the S/D core build which can deal with a lot of situations, much moreso than D/P daredevil. However it also seems to be the best plus 1 against necros and guards. A lot of this is due to the pure output of larcenous strike when in an outnumbering situation. The 7k crits while also being unblockable and boon ripping create very easy and thoughtless decisions. Of course there is much more counter play to larcenous strike than all of the other classes mentioned above, however precasting flanking strike and then stealing into larcenous still exists for bursts of 5 boon rip plus 9k damage. This is backstab levels of damage on a much more spammable kit. I would nerf it by about 8% both against booned and boonless targets. Otherwise thief is fine. > > Ranger > > Druid is without a doubt the best 1v1 class in the game right now. This is due to it having so much sustain from celestial avatar and troll unguent's ability to bridge the gap between each other. This is all fine because druid needs to have a niche for it to be viable, however there should be a way to counter play their sustain and finish them. As it is now, they have stealth on leaving CA and when landing a longbow attack (current meta build for 1v1s on druid uses long bow and sword, staff doesn't pressure current 1v1 matchups hard enough but certainly makes them much harder to kill) There is arguably no way a competent ranger who rotates through their stealth and sustain CDs appropriately should die. Even in 1v2s the ranger can stealth and reset while wasting time for the outnumber. The solution to this i think is to put a much longer cast time on the longbow 3 which stealths them. As it is now it has barely any cast time or animation so there's no way to prevent them from getting into stealth, then when they are in stealth they can freely cast all of their other sustain skills and get their sustain engine running. Also troll unguent should have a longer cast time to make it more interuptable. These changes should keep ranger in its top spot of 1v1er, but make it much easier to stun lock, disrupt, and plus 1 to actually kill. > > Elementalist > > Weaver is in somewhat of a questionable spot with no real role. It doesn't 1v1 better than druid, but it also doesn't do more damage than a holo in a skirmishing role, and doesn't provide that much sustain to its team. The meta is much too role-defined for a jack of all trades class to work well. However, with the mentioned nerfs to other classes it should be in a better spot. I don't think ele really needs any buffs specifically. Tempest could use some buffs to close the distance between it and firebrand in a sustain role. Stability and resistance is one thing that firebrands have that make them above tempests in support. Let tempests have something that guardians don't. Auras do not do much in the way of supporting other than the healing they give. One possibility is to make tempest a more aggressive support and make auras (just add this baseline in one of the tempest minor traits) increase the offensive stats of players as well. For example, 150 power and precision and condition damage while under your auras or might has an increased effect while under your auras. I'm really terrible at weaver so i won't propose any buffs specifically, but I'm sure someone else who wants weaver to be balanced and not overpowered can propose some. > > However, the sword weaver's sustain build with healing power has similarly uninteractive gameplay to a ranger. It of course has less pressure and less kiting abitlity, but it could become a really strong bruiser with constant pressure and on- node-aoe. My only change would be to reduce the amount of healing that the sword 2 in water does, which heals them for a lot more than I think is necessary to sustain 1v1s, but heals them enough to survive outnumbered situations they shouldn't survive. > > Revenant > > Marauders herald is really good at pressuring firebrands, but really bad at surviving scourges. The changes to offhand sword were good but there needs to be more self sustain for a class that requires to be melee to mid range for most of its damage. Compared to other classes, it has very low condition cleanse. I would improve the conditions cleansed by the invoking legend swap from 1 to 2, then increase the cast time of staff 4 so you can get your cleanse when you need it and not take too much extra pressure while trying to cleanse. Otherwise, no other buffs should be necessary if the above nerfs are made. > > Warrior > > Pretty balanced imo. high dps that allows it to be one of the only counters to druid in 1v1, but lacks the presence of a holo or rev in larger fights. I wouldn't change anything. 1. Mirage applies tons of confusion easily, Jaunt + Shatters + Ambush + Interrupts. **Needs balance**. 2. Necromancers in general already have a good quantity of boon corruption. Right now scourge brings it a whole new level. **Needs balance**. 3. Engineers (core) still have most of its skills barely usable in PvP. Grenades used to be OP. Bombs used to be a thing. Gadgets are still useless in most situations. Elixirs are okay. Holosmith is a good burst spec but that dodge roll, which comes from core traitline is, in my opinion, overperforming a little. **Maybe needs a balance**. 4. Guardians also share the same situation as engis. Firebrand outshinies every class in terms of support. I run a zerker staff ele with strength runes and I can keep 25 might stacks + fury and inflict burning onto my targets but firebrands still survive a full Meteor Shower. **Needs balance**. 5. Thieves have a delicate situation. They can't be proper mid fighters because they are squishy just like eles. They have deadeye now but people underestimate its potential. Shortbow's #2 is not reliable to deal AoE dmg so don't count on that for a mid fight. Whenever people see thieves they automatically think that they're built around mobility and that's a bad thing because it discourages many thief players to try something different. Have u ever seen support thieves? They never were a thing because healing power does literally nothing to thieves. Now about power s/d build: I am against thieves having spammable unblockable attacks that hit like a lot and on top of that it steals boons. It's overperforming. **Needs balance**. 6. Rangers never had proper balance either. Core rangers are still too reliant on their pets and their weapon skills are overall in a bad situation. Soulbeast is interesting and I feel people underestimate its potential, but I don't know, maybe I'm saying nonsense since ranger is not my main. About druid: too much sustain coupled with strong pets is virtually the result of inappropriate balance. They have protection on dodge, boon sharing with pets, CC and condi transfer and their pets are very resilient (electrical wyverns don't die to full Meteor Shower + Lava Font, it's ridiculous resilient and it attacks too often). Summing it all you have the best 1v1 class that is resistant to condis, CC and damage altogether. **Needs balance**. 7. Elementalists are also in a delicate situation. Whatever build you come with it won't work because whatever it's supposed to do it performs miserably. Core support ele is worse than support firebrand. Condi eles, be they core, tempest or weaver, are trash because the profession lacks condition output (compare it to a necro, mesmer or even a warrior, condi eles are just bad). Tempests are outshinied by firebrands. Weaver has good burst capability but you can't run zerker or marauder or any dps oriented build without the game reminding you how vulnerable you are and how easily you are killed. **Needs balance**. 8. Revenants are like elementalists right now. **Needs balance**. 9. Warrior is the most linear profession in the game. Support tankish banner warr was a thing of the past. Shout healer was a thing of the past. Core condi warr was a thing of the past. Everything about warriors are things forgotten in a distant past. Just like any other meta class right now, only one build is viable and it outperforms many others. **Needs balance.** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menyus.4610 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 People really want to see thief gettin nerfed again wth? Why the hell it would need a nerf? Ever played it? Do you now how bad larceneous strike, and flaking strikeare? -it has 130 range but feels like 50 if you get cripple or any condi you gonna basically hit the air if u dont have a gap closer skill on cd, and what is this core madness? All i saw in past season was sindrener, sizer wanna be guys contributing nothing to the enemy team i think i aint lost a single match when a core thief was in the enemy team, it deal some damage then its auto invulnerable pops and panic away all the time. Daredevil d/p + s/d is far superior to core thief, but sure lets just nerf thieves damage, but seriously if u have problem with s/d thief what u do against a holo? that class deals more damage then a thief from further away more cc more survivability and thanks to superspeed it nearly catches up with its mobility oh and it deals aoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menyus.4610 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 > @"Majirah.5089" said: > > @"Menyus.4610" said: > > People really want to see thief gettin nerfed again wth? Why the hell it would need a nerf? Ever played it? Do you now how bad larceneous strike, and flaking strikeare? -it has 130 range but feels like 50 if you get cripple or any condi you gonna basically hit the air if u dont have a gap closer skill on cd, and what is this core madness? All i saw in past season was sindrener, sizer wanna be guys contributing nothing to the enemy team i think i aint lost a single match when a core thief was in the enemy team, it deal some damage then its auto invulnerable pops and panic away all the time. Daredevil d/p + s/d is far superior to core thief, but sure lets just nerf thieves damage, but seriously if u have problem with s/d thief what u do against a holo? that class deals more damage then a thief from further away more cc more survivability and thanks to superspeed it nearly catches up with its mobility oh and it deals aoe > > Larcenous strike and flanking strike are not bad at all. How in the world could you possibly think that? Core sword dagger is one the best builds available for theif in pvp right now. It can murder the bunker guardian pretty quickly. I personally don’t want it nerfed, but to claim that it isn’t strong is pretty absurd. > > It is far better than anything deadeye has. In some situations it is better than d/p daredevil. I also think it is better than sword dagger daredevil. > if its so strong why it isnt meta since pof? or since pre pof cos nothing chnaged s/d wise which it would have prevented it being so strong btw im playing it since 2016 in wvw core s/d + d/p but i see no point to run it in pvp especially with the amount of condi in it i chnaged changed pumonary to cleanse condi on evade, and it performs far better then core, anyway why would u take acro? acro is like a lil brother to DrD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menyus.4610 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 > @"Menyus.4610" said: > > @"Majirah.5089" said: > > > @"Menyus.4610" said: > > > People really want to see thief gettin nerfed again wth? Why the hell it would need a nerf? Ever played it? Do you now how bad larceneous strike, and flaking strikeare? -it has 130 range but feels like 50 if you get cripple or any condi you gonna basically hit the air if u dont have a gap closer skill on cd, and what is this core madness? All i saw in past season was sindrener, sizer wanna be guys contributing nothing to the enemy team i think i aint lost a single match when a core thief was in the enemy team, it deal some damage then its auto invulnerable pops and panic away all the time. Daredevil d/p + s/d is far superior to core thief, but sure lets just nerf thieves damage, but seriously if u have problem with s/d thief what u do against a holo? that class deals more damage then a thief from further away more cc more survivability and thanks to superspeed it nearly catches up with its mobility oh and it deals aoe > > > > Larcenous strike and flanking strike are not bad at all. How in the world could you possibly think that? Core sword dagger is one the best builds available for theif in pvp right now. It can murder the bunker guardian pretty quickly. I personally don’t want it nerfed, but to claim that it isn’t strong is pretty absurd. > > > > It is far better than anything deadeye has. In some situations it is better than d/p daredevil. I also think it is better than sword dagger daredevil. > > > > if its so strong why it isnt meta since pof? or since pre pof cos nothing chnaged s/d wise which it would have prevented it being so strong Cant find where can i delete this so i a mod sees it please delete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 General balance threads should and will always be taken with a grain of salt... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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