Inevitable Useless Nerf

[Aridon.8362]

If they nerf Firebrand to the ground, considering what they've done to the other classes, I may just quit pvp and wvw. There's a lot of classes that burst down guardian even while having a considerable amount of toughness and vitality. In PvP there should be that class that if played properly can counter power at a 1v1 degree, given everything that the other classes have gotten. I sense that in WvW the dynamic will shift from guilds wanting a range of classes, to guilds just wanting necros, firebrands, and revenants, which is sooo stupid..

[Arcaedus.7290]

Keep in mind that nerfing/buffing is relative. If they nerf firebrand healing by 10%, but then nerf everyone's damage by 20%, then we actually got buffed. The current meta honor/valor/Firebrand build in pvp DOES need nerfing as do other things.

[RabbitUp.8294]

Firebrand needs some nerfs in pvp. but its support needs buffs in pve. I hope they remember that.

 

Or at least those "mesmer changes" they talked about include some targeted chrono nerfs.

[Obtena.7952]

The fact you recognize their might be a nerf inc sort of indicates it needs to happen ....

[Saiyan.1704]

> @"Aridon.8362" said:

> If they nerf Firebrand to the ground, considering what they've done to the other classes, I may just quit pvp and wvw. . . . I sense that in WvW the dynamic will shift from guilds wanting a range of classes, to guilds just wanting necros, firebrands, and revenants, which is sooo stupid..

 

I can guarantee you FB and Necro wont be removed from meta. Both are two sides of the same coin. What i'm HOPING for is the necessity of more power classes on a team instead of the usual two Necro for every 1 Firebrand comp [WvW/PvP].

 

I see an upcoming Power creep from the potentially, bursty meta classes -**Ele** / **Rev** buffs. If that's the case, Firebrand and Necro both with be in a butt clinching spot. Out of all the classes though... the ones most concerning are Ele and Thief.... these two have such a high skill cap that an unanticipated buff could make them GOD tier in PvP and WvW.... as history has shown before.

[Aeolus.3615]

It will be a QoL patch more than balance... still i wouldbet Anet will increase damage output on some PoF weapons just because bad players want mor damage ouput..

[narcx.3570]

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> It will be a QoL patch more than balance... still i wouldbet Anet will increase damage output on some PoF weapons just because bad players want mor damage ouput..

 

There's a difference between bad players wanting moaaar damage and it being a little ridiculous that nobody uses any of your newly designed stuff because it's all so inferior... 9 new weapons across the classes and less than half are used in any game mode whatsoever beyond the people who say, "It's a new weapon, I'm using it, I don't care how bad it is."

[Obtena.7952]

> @"narcx.3570" said:

> > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > It will be a QoL patch more than balance... still i wouldbet Anet will increase damage output on some PoF weapons just because bad players want mor damage ouput..

>

> There's a difference between bad players wanting moaaar damage and it being a little ridiculous that nobody uses any of your newly designed stuff because it's all so inferior... 9 new weapons across the classes and less than half are used in any game mode whatsoever beyond the people who say, "It's a new weapon, I'm using it, I don't care how bad it is."

 

To be fair, Anet designs weapons around themes, not performance; the expectation that every or most weapons not be 'inferior' isn't really reasonable to begin with.

[narcx.3570]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"narcx.3570" said:

> > > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > It will be a QoL patch more than balance... still i wouldbet Anet will increase damage output on some PoF weapons just because bad players want mor damage ouput..

> >

> > There's a difference between bad players wanting moaaar damage and it being a little ridiculous that nobody uses any of your newly designed stuff because it's all so inferior... 9 new weapons across the classes and less than half are used in any game mode whatsoever beyond the people who say, "It's a new weapon, I'm using it, I don't care how bad it is."

>

> To be fair, Anet designs weapons around themes, not performance; the expectation that every or most weapons not be 'inferior' isn't really reasonable to begin with.

 

Yeah, but compare it to HoT where every new weapon had and still has (for the most part, rip tempest wh) a meta spec for at least one game mode--if not all three--and it comes off as underwhelming. I could understand why the dev's would want to buff them... Like, hey, we put all this work into making these and nobody's even using them. Not saying they have to be setting new benchmarks or destroying your enemy's dreams in sPvP, but they should at least be useable in any sort of real content beyond open world lulzing.

[Obtena.7952]

OK .. but that doesn't change what I said ... weapons are not introduced as options at the same plateau of the highest performance weapon so it doesn't make sense to complain to Anet that some weapons aren't optimal. It's never been that way. If there is some scenario where Anet introduced a bunch of weapons that established a new or matched an old performance plateau, it's simply a coincidence. I can for sure say that while there were new plateaus in HoT, we can only expect as more especs get released, it will be less and less likely the new weapons achieve or establish the performance plateaus from previous espec releases. I don't think that's honest to claim that people aren't using weapons all kinds of different weapons, even not-optimal ones; think about the reasons people choose weapons to begin with.

[Aeolus.3615]

@Obtena.7952, exactly but in the past Anet have increased damage on waepons that already could do some decent damage to alot of damage.... i dont think Anet cares much about that, that is another placebo, they will increase damage in any weapon they want to becomes meta, and meta in this gae means damage ouput rather than tactic or role.

 

Players want to be carried with damage andhave that has only "meta" and that is what Anet delivers.

 

[pah.4931]

In a world without Scourges, FB are just kinda OP (by themselves, there have been way better bunkers in the history of GW2). In a world with Scourges, FBs are too much.

 

So hopefully they fix the real problem. Scourges. And then just kinda nerf FB (maybe longer recharges, especially the elite mantra).

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> @Obtena.7952, exactly but in the past Anet have increased damage on waepons that already could do some decent damage to alot of damage.... i dont think Anet cares much about that, that is another placebo, they will increase damage in any weapon they want to becomes meta, and meta in this gae means damage ouput rather than tactic or role.

>

> Players want to be carried with damage andhave that has only "meta" and that is what Anet delivers.

>

 

I think there is some correction in order because I don't think Anet buffs a weapon they want to become meta ... they don't care. The game isn't designed in a way that shows they care about what weapon you use. If Anet cared about what weapon should be meta, they wouldn't have given us so much weapon choice in the first place.

 

I honestly am convinced that Anet will change things to fulfill the concept they have for the weapon/skill/trait/whatever. That's not a performance based evaluation (though it might coincide with what players think is) and it's not something we are privy to. That's why lots of the changes we see leave us asking why they made them.

 

We see good examples of this in this thread ... someone associates increased performance from many HoT weapons ... this leads them to think that PoF weapons should have at least or better the HoT weapon performance. If there is no assumption that the weapons from progressive expansions were INTENDED to lead to increased performances, that conclusion wouldn't make sense in the first place.

[Darknicrofia.2604]

The dirty little secret no one wants to talk about:

 

Auramancer support is still way better than FB support in a power meta without scourges pissing aids by simply looking at something.

[narcx.3570]

> @"pah.4931" said:

> In a world without Scourges, FB are just kinda OP (by themselves, there have been way better bunkers in the history of GW2). In a world with Scourges, FBs are too much.

>

> So hopefully they fix the real problem. Scourges. And then just kinda nerf FB (maybe longer recharges, especially the elite mantra).

 

Same could be said the other way around though... Scourges aren't really a problem without their aegis/stability/heals puking, one-guarunteed-rez supplying friend.

[Sandzibar.5134]

Firebrand needs tweaks? So that means DH Longbow nerfs are incoming as usual then ...

[pah.4931]

> @"narcx.3570" said:

> > @"pah.4931" said:

> > In a world without Scourges, FB are just kinda OP (by themselves, there have been way better bunkers in the history of GW2). In a world with Scourges, FBs are too much.

> >

> > So hopefully they fix the real problem. Scourges. And then just kinda nerf FB (maybe longer recharges, especially the elite mantra).

>

> Same could be said the other way around though... Scourges aren't really a problem without their aegis/stability/heals puking, one-guarunteed-rez supplying friend.

 

It COULD be said that, and I see how you'd come to that conclusion. However, a team with two scourges and no FBs is still a scary thing and can wreck teams. And that is because conquest is designed to force people on points. A team with one or two FBs without scourges is not nearly as menacing. (in fact, two FBs is usually not good because lack of damage)

[ArthurDent.9538]

Scourge + firebrand synergy is little more than pairing the best team fight damage build with the best support. Gut firebrand enough then everyone just goes tempest + scourge. Gut scourge enough and everyone just goes holosmith + firebrand. Both scourge and firebrand need nerfs so they don't eclipse their rivals.

[Sorem.9157]

> @"ArthurDent.9538" said:

> Scourge + firebrand synergy is little more than pairing the best team fight damage build with the best support. Gut firebrand enough then everyone just goes tempest + scourge. Gut scourge enough and everyone just goes holosmith + firebrand. Both scourge and firebrand need nerfs so they don't eclipse their rivals.

 

Problem with this point of view is that firebrand cannot survive in a power meta. If they nerf scourge/mirage and revenants and thieves rise again. Firebrand is very likely not going to be a problem anymore.

[ArthurDent.9538]

> @"Sorem.9157" said:

> > @"ArthurDent.9538" said:

> > Scourge + firebrand synergy is little more than pairing the best team fight damage build with the best support. Gut firebrand enough then everyone just goes tempest + scourge. Gut scourge enough and everyone just goes holosmith + firebrand. Both scourge and firebrand need nerfs so they don't eclipse their rivals.

>

> Problem with this point of view is that firebrand cannot survive in a power meta. If they nerf scourge/mirage and revenants and thieves rise again. Firebrand is very likely not going to be a problem anymore.

 

That point is a bit debatable as I would say that solo killing a bunk firebrand is a bit harder on power rev than soloing a classic auramancer because firebrand has just a lot more healing. However against a full team focus fire you could reasonably give the advantage to ele since they can stall a bit with obsidian flesh then port away with lightning flash, it doesn't buy much time but it is better than firebrand can do. But there is nothing wrong with firebrand being the better support against condi comps while tempest is better against power, however right now firebrand is just better in this meta by too wide of a margin due to significantly superior healing, cleansing, and boon share with only drawback being less damage (negligible in both regards) and struggling against full team power spikes.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > @Obtena.7952, exactly but in the past Anet have increased damage on waepons that already could do some decent damage to alot of damage.... i dont think Anet cares much about that, that is another placebo, they will increase damage in any weapon they want to becomes meta, and meta in this gae means damage ouput rather than tactic or role.

> >

> > Players want to be carried with damage andhave that has only "meta" and that is what Anet delivers.

> >

>

> I think there is some correction in order because I don't think Anet buffs a weapon they want to become meta ... they don't care. The game isn't designed in a way that shows they care about what weapon you use. If Anet cared about what weapon should be meta, they wouldn't have given us so much weapon choice in the first place.

>

> I honestly am convinced that Anet will change things to fulfill the concept they have for the weapon/skill/trait/whatever. That's not a performance based evaluation (though it might coincide with what players think is) and it's not something we are privy to. That's why lots of the changes we see leave us asking why they made them.

>

> We see good examples of this in this thread ... someone associates increased performance from many HoT weapons ... this leads them to think that PoF weapons should have at least or better the HoT weapon performance. If there is no assumption that the weapons from progressive expansions were INTENDED to lead to increased performances, that conclusion wouldn't make sense in the first place.

 

I see your point, but not actually how i feel it is working, Anet try to balance when they feel **forced** to due forum rage, same happens when players rage about damage in certains weapons...cause they want more.

 

This is a only DPS game, every one looks good when playing games like this, that is what Anet wil always deliver, so i am expecting a buff on PoF weapons, right after and HoT or core improvement, PoF weapons are the new toys.

[Ragnarox.9601]

RIP firebrands...they left scourge as is and nerf the shit out of firebrands (and they weren't that good anyway)....still shitty traits 1-1-1 left the same, they nerfed tomes....so again going back to my oooold DH.

 

BTW spirit weapons buffs...bahahaha......

 

so whats the point of F3 #1 skill anymore? you fart stability while they beat the sh*i*t out of you now....

[Aridon.8362]

Anet done goofed it up, we are now useless. Thank you.

[Lynnie.7213]

Yeah, Devs were not kind to us this time. I am cool with some nerfs to FB but not like this. They should get scourge and mirage on par with balances, yet, scourges weren't barely touched. This is a sad day for us, but we shall not give up! :'(

[Darknicrofia.2604]

> @"Ragnarox.9601" said:

> RIP firebrands...they left scourge as is

 

Are you retarded or just being obtuse on purpose?