The what if WvW was more like PvP

[Ronin.9376]

I know it sounds impossible but what do you all think if wvw was more like pvp and just skill baced not gear baced would it bring newer players would it make it more fun id like everyones thoughts and ideas on the subject

[IndigoSundown.5419]

Imagine the outcry that would ensue if all of the people who had done what was needful to get top tier gear for use in WvW had all of that invalidated by a change to how gear works in WvW. While this might be a good idea, it is long past time where it could be implemented. The ship has sailed.

[Tolmos.8395]

This has come up a lot, and I've tried several times to make a case that WvW should be considered PvP, not PvE as it currently is.

 

Unfortunately, it hasn't been a favored stance thus far, and I don't really see that changing any time soon. I suppose it gives a different feel for different players; sPvP for those who want skill based combat, and WvW for those who want gear based. Since players may be coming from different games, some of which offer either of those styles, this is a way for Guild Wars 2 to offer both at the same time. For those players who are used to grinding their way to the top of the PvP ladder, WvW is for them. For those who are used to hopping in and relying only on their own player skill, sPvP has their needs met.

[Shirlias.8104]

> @"IndigoSundown.5419" said:

> Imagine the outcry that would ensue if all of the people who had done what was needful to get top tier gear for use in WvW had all of that invalidated by a change to how gear works in WvW. While this might be a good idea, it is long past time where it could be implemented. The ship has sailed.

 

They should simply not to care about players complaints.

A more balanced equipment and less runes/sigils would be nice ( a definitely lower powercreep ).

[Ronin.9376]

I just know its hard as hell to get new ppl into wvw lol they avoid it like the black plague lol and pvp no longer fills my needs xD

[Lord Kreegan.8123]

I don't think making it "skill-based" would make a bit of difference... seriously, how much skill to you need to be part of a zerg?

It should be called ZvZvZ, not WvWvW, because players don't fight each other. In truth, the zergs don't fight each other. Zergs go after unoccupied and unprotected forts/outposts and avoid other zergs like the plague. The only time players go after other players is when there's a straggler and then it's 5-to-1 odds with the straggler stunned, knocked down, dazed, and rooted for the brief time he's alive before having to teleport back to some waypoint far from the action, only to go through the drill all over again.

There is no PvP in it...

In all honesty, it is the worst implementation of WvWvW I've ever seen; there is no motivation for zergs to go after one another. Rarely, a zerg might catch an opposing zerg inside a fort, but usually people just teleport out to escape when that happens.

Without some very fundamental changes to how WvWvW is implemented in GW2, it will never be attractive to the general population. Not even ESO is that bad...

[pah.4931]

They need to completely rework it so that zerging is punished. It should be based on well-coordinated, smaller war parties and skirmishing. Large-scale sieges in MMOs always end up being lame zerg-fests.

[TheGrimm.5624]

No, I like that effort I put into acquiring my gear makes a difference in WvW. I also like that PvP s the more level of playing field. IMO there is a natural progression of PvP, PvE and WvW that works today. Both PvP and PvE prep you more for WvW.

[Oglaf.1074]

No, the whole point about WvW is that it isn’t PvP...

[Ronin.9376]

well what if there was a open world pvp map or larger pvp matches I love wvw myself just ik a lot of ppl who don't like it

[Arzurag.7506]

> @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> No, the whole point about WvW is that it isn’t PvP...

 

WvW is basically just PvP in a larger scale.

[Asum.4960]

> @"Lord Kreegan.8123" said:

> I don't think making it "skill-based" would make a bit of difference... seriously, how much skill to you need to be part of a zerg?

> It should be called ZvZvZ, not WvWvW, because players don't fight each other. In truth, the zergs don't fight each other. Zergs go after unoccupied and unprotected forts/outposts and avoid other zergs like the plague. The only time players go after other players is when there's a straggler and then it's 5-to-1 odds with the straggler stunned, knocked down, dazed, and rooted for the brief time he's alive before having to teleport back to some waypoint far from the action, only to go through the drill all over again.

> There is no PvP in it...

> In all honesty, it is the worst implementation of WvWvW I've ever seen; there is no motivation for zergs to go after one another. Rarely, a zerg might catch an opposing zerg inside a fort, but usually people just teleport out to escape when that happens.

> Without some very fundamental changes to how WvWvW is implemented in GW2, it will never be attractive to the general population. Not even ESO is that bad...

 

I have no idea what game you are playing or when you played WvW the last time, but this is completely opposed to my experience in hundreds of hours of WvW.

 

First of all, Zergs clash constantly, and all commanders I know are always looking for fights over taking unprotected objectives if they aren't T3, and second, while things like Raids might require much more skill in terms of rotation, WvW is by far the most complex game mode in the game, especially when it comes to WvW Raids in terms of positioning and timing bombs.

 

If you think a WvW raid is like running a PvE Zerg spamming 1, you have no idea about WvW.

 

Also, no motivation to go after other Zergs?

If you never had to pause to manage inventory mid fight after a 10 minute straight 50v50v50, you haven't experienced WvW.

[Oglaf.1074]

> @"Arzurag.7506" said:

> > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > No, the whole point about WvW is that it isn’t PvP...

>

> WvW is basically just PvP in a larger scale.

 

No it is not. Blatantly and obviously so.

 

 

[Lord Kreegan.8123]

> @"Asum.4960" said:

> > @"Lord Kreegan.8123" said:

> > I don't think making it "skill-based" would make a bit of difference... seriously, how much skill to you need to be part of a zerg?

> > It should be called ZvZvZ, not WvWvW, because players don't fight each other. In truth, the zergs don't fight each other. Zergs go after unoccupied and unprotected forts/outposts and avoid other zergs like the plague. The only time players go after other players is when there's a straggler and then it's 5-to-1 odds with the straggler stunned, knocked down, dazed, and rooted for the brief time he's alive before having to teleport back to some waypoint far from the action, only to go through the drill all over again.

> > There is no PvP in it...

> > In all honesty, it is the worst implementation of WvWvW I've ever seen; there is no motivation for zergs to go after one another. Rarely, a zerg might catch an opposing zerg inside a fort, but usually people just teleport out to escape when that happens.

> > Without some very fundamental changes to how WvWvW is implemented in GW2, it will never be attractive to the general population. Not even ESO is that bad...

>

> I have no idea what game you are playing or when you played WvW the last time, but this is completely opposed to my experience in hundreds of hours of WvW.

>

> First of all, Zergs clash constantly, and all commanders I know are always looking for fights over taking unprotected objectives if they aren't T3, and second, while things like Raids might require much more skill in terms of rotation, WvW is by far the most complex game mode in the game, especially when it comes to WvW Raids in terms of positioning and timing bombs.

>

> If you think a WvW raid is like running a PvE Zerg spamming 1, you have no idea about WvW.

>

> Also, no motivation to go after other Zergs?

> If you never had to pause to manage inventory mid fight after a 10 minute straight 50v50v50, you haven't experienced WvW.

 

Everything you said is just bunk.

[Odinens.5920]

> @"Lord Kreegan.8123" said:

> I don't think making it "skill-based" would make a bit of difference... seriously, how much skill to you need to be part of a zerg?

> It should be called ZvZvZ, not WvWvW, because players don't fight each other. In truth, the zergs don't fight each other. Zergs go after unoccupied and unprotected forts/outposts and avoid other zergs like the plague. The only time players go after other players is when there's a straggler and then it's 5-to-1 odds with the straggler stunned, knocked down, dazed, and rooted for the brief time he's alive before having to teleport back to some waypoint far from the action, only to go through the drill all over again.

> There is no PvP in it...

> In all honesty, it is the worst implementation of WvWvW I've ever seen; there is no motivation for zergs to go after one another. Rarely, a zerg might catch an opposing zerg inside a fort, but usually people just teleport out to escape when that happens.

> Without some very fundamental changes to how WvWvW is implemented in GW2, it will never be attractive to the general population. Not even ESO is that bad...

 

I'm guessing you don't play much WvW, or are someone that just shadows the zerg or roams, rather than actually being in the squad.

[Asum.4960]

> @"Lord Kreegan.8123" said:

> > @"Asum.4960" said:

> > > @"Lord Kreegan.8123" said:

> > > I don't think making it "skill-based" would make a bit of difference... seriously, how much skill to you need to be part of a zerg?

> > > It should be called ZvZvZ, not WvWvW, because players don't fight each other. In truth, the zergs don't fight each other. Zergs go after unoccupied and unprotected forts/outposts and avoid other zergs like the plague. The only time players go after other players is when there's a straggler and then it's 5-to-1 odds with the straggler stunned, knocked down, dazed, and rooted for the brief time he's alive before having to teleport back to some waypoint far from the action, only to go through the drill all over again.

> > > There is no PvP in it...

> > > In all honesty, it is the worst implementation of WvWvW I've ever seen; there is no motivation for zergs to go after one another. Rarely, a zerg might catch an opposing zerg inside a fort, but usually people just teleport out to escape when that happens.

> > > Without some very fundamental changes to how WvWvW is implemented in GW2, it will never be attractive to the general population. Not even ESO is that bad...

> >

> > I have no idea what game you are playing or when you played WvW the last time, but this is completely opposed to my experience in hundreds of hours of WvW.

> >

> > First of all, Zergs clash constantly, and all commanders I know are always looking for fights over taking unprotected objectives if they aren't T3, and second, while things like Raids might require much more skill in terms of rotation, WvW is by far the most complex game mode in the game, especially when it comes to WvW Raids in terms of positioning and timing bombs.

> >

> > If you think a WvW raid is like running a PvE Zerg spamming 1, you have no idea about WvW.

> >

> > Also, no motivation to go after other Zergs?

> > If you never had to pause to manage inventory mid fight after a 10 minute straight 50v50v50, you haven't experienced WvW.

>

> Everything you said is just bunk.

 

Mind sharing your WvW experience (estimated hours played, rank and how actively you are participating in discord/TS during WvW Raids)?

 

Clearly you know the game mode better than me if you are so stalwart in your convictions.

 

WvW is a gamemode that gives back only as much as you are willing to put in.

If you are following a competent commander in voicechat with proper WvW builds you can have an absolute blast.

If you are pug chasing a friendly zerg around as a Thief or PewPew Ranger, not being clued in what they are trying to achieve, not getting move and bomb commands and not being part of the boon sharing and stab rotations of the Squad, it might be miserable.

 

It absolutely sounds like you never got to experience proper WvW.

[Ronin.9376]

this is not a post to describe wvw its about a theory not one of you hit the point but the first few ppl lol please keep it peacefull

[Ashen.2907]

I think that the hypothetical situation described by the OP would kill WvW participation. It would discourage dabblers, part time wvwers, and the like who already avoid SPVP.

[Ronin.9376]

idk if it would or not well ona side note what would you all think of if they had mounts in wvw and I'm not talking griffon or the bunny maybe just the raptor or a new mount

[Kylden Ar.3724]

> @"Ronin.9376" said:

> I know it sounds impossible but what do you all think if wvw was more like pvp and just skill baced not gear baced would it bring newer players would it make it more fun id like everyones thoughts and ideas on the subject

 

I have said they should do this for a while. With 3 differences from PvP;

 

1) Selection of all stats available (even the defense ones)

2) Selection of stats for 2 slots - Weapons/Armor and Trinkets, allowing for some hybrid stat builds

3) Would still allow for the stat adds from Infusion Slots so the WvW players that have spent the time to get Ascended / Legendary would still get the slight edge from their infusions.

 

> @"Ronin.9376" said:

> idk if it would or not well ona side note what would you all think of if they had mounts in wvw and I'm not talking griffon or the bunny maybe just the raptor or a new mount

 

Well, duh, the Mighty Dolyak mount! Not near the speed of other mounts, but a lot of Health and Stability!

 

[Dawdler.8521]

What if WvW *and* PvE simply had the same stat count as sPvP instead of a thousand extra points?

 

That is the real question.

 

Because there is no real reason as to why WvW and PvE "need" the extra stats - 15K dps or 30K dps as berserker, it doesnt matter. Any balancing would be done on mobs, not players.

[Tolmos.8395]

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> I think that the hypothetical situation described by the OP would kill WvW participation. It would discourage dabblers, part time wvwers, and the like who already avoid SPVP.

 

Could you elaborate on why balancing WvW so every player's stats are normalized, like sPvP, and removing the reliance on gear would discourage dabblers and part time WvWers? Especially those who would have to go into WvW knowing they will be running lower tier gear than their opponents?

[Kylden Ar.3724]

> @"Tolmos.8395" said:

> > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > I think that the hypothetical situation described by the OP would kill WvW participation. It would discourage dabblers, part time wvwers, and the like who already avoid SPVP.

>

> Could you elaborate on why balancing WvW so every player's stats are normalized, like sPvP, and removing the reliance on gear would discourage dabblers and part time WvWers? Especially those who would have to go into WvW knowing they will be running lower tier gear than their opponents?

 

It would not. He's gatekeeping or playing 'no true Scotsman.'

 

If it's competetive, it should be on near even ground. Allow infusion boosts, foods, and utilities, but stat wise it should be the same cost (read zero) for everyone.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Tolmos.8395" said:

> > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > I think that the hypothetical situation described by the OP would kill WvW participation. It would discourage dabblers, part time wvwers, and the like who already avoid SPVP.

>

> Could you elaborate on why balancing WvW so every player's stats are normalized, like sPvP, and removing the reliance on gear would discourage dabblers and part time WvWers? Especially those who would have to go into WvW knowing they will be running lower tier gear than their opponents?

 

1) It is described as, "more like PvP," something that many PvEers will go to great lengths to avoid even if they are willing to give WvW a shot because it isnt as serious a form of PvP as SPvP.

 

2) WvW currently allows the player to enter using the PvE build with which he or she is familiar. Mandating that the player rebuild the character, even if it is not too terribly daunting a process, is a roadblock.

 

3) Part of the draw of WvW, for some people, is seeing how their build holds up in a (semi)PvP(ish) scenario. Take away their reason for entering WvW and they may very well stop doing so.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Kylden Ar.3724" said:

> > @"Tolmos.8395" said:

> > > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > I think that the hypothetical situation described by the OP would kill WvW participation. It would discourage dabblers, part time wvwers, and the like who already avoid SPVP.

> >

> > Could you elaborate on why balancing WvW so every player's stats are normalized, like sPvP, and removing the reliance on gear would discourage dabblers and part time WvWers? Especially those who would have to go into WvW knowing they will be running lower tier gear than their opponents?

>

> It would not. He's gatekeeping or playing 'no true Scotsman.'

 

Nope. Neither.

 

As for your mistaken belief that it would not discourage dabblers...I can show that it would discourage at least one. Can you demonstrate that it would discourage none?