*Upcoming Mesmer NERF(S)*

[musu.9205]

even im not a fan of some changes (taunt on idefender)

the panic in this post is too much to take seriously .

 

if anything , idisenchantist seems to be getting a huge buff from dev post . iwarlock seems to be buffed /changed too

[csquirrelrun.3108]

Clone production was already much higher than shattering cooldowns could keep up with, increasing this production with the phantasm removal still leaves us with more clones than are useful, so I'm hoping there are some changes to take better advantage of shatter skills.

[Bast.7253]

> @"Svarty.8019" said:

> 5 Illusions...

 

Assuming a warrior doesn't breathe in their direction and cleave them down, it will be kind of amusing to have 3 clones up, use phantasms on cooldown, and then hide in stealth while the other person thinks about the fact that there's 5 or so things attacking them at once. I guess if you use the healing signet that refreshes phantasm recharges you could probably come up with a reasonable build, but we'll see.

 

Illusions just die so easily in the current aoe spam meta we have now. Spellbreakers that are immune to damage pretty much the whole fight and yet can still stunlock you and 2 shot you, holo's that can knock everything down in the map with one skill and then aoe, scourge that melt anything in a 30 yard radius.

 

For the current power shatter build in a pvp scene I don't see it making that much of a difference, but I think the biggest impact will be on the condi mirage. The only downside is that you really have to take the grandmaster that gives illusions mirage cloak ambush abilities to really take advantage of the clone changes. Which means you lose a stun break and condition cleanse, which ultimately results in taking a cleanse mantra or inspiration trait line.

 

We'll see. It might be a fun change now that phantasms don't count towards the cap. Biggest gripe I have is how easily clones die and how little damage they do when not traited for ambush.

 

 

 

[Curunen.8729]

> @"MailMail.6534" said:

> I've only read a bit of this thread, but it is CHOCK full of misinformation. I hate being that person who picks a part a person's post, sentence by sentence, but we have to be more responsible when describing our OPINIONS as "FACTS". These are radical changes. Panic is natural. Speculation is exciting. Fact checking should be required before you hit that post button.

>

> Ooo that tea on Azukas is delicious. lol

 

Having read back through this thread, I'm struggling to find anything stated as "facts" that isn't directly referencing the change description (ie Chronophantasma double shattering won't be a thing because no shattering phantasms - that is a fact). The rest is mostly a lot of conditional "maybe/could/likely/possibly" statements - quite responsible in my opinion.

[Pyroatheist.9031]

> @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > @"MailMail.6534" said:

> > I've only read a bit of this thread, but it is CHOCK full of misinformation. I hate being that person who picks a part a person's post, sentence by sentence, but we have to be more responsible when describing our OPINIONS as "FACTS". These are radical changes. Panic is natural. Speculation is exciting. Fact checking should be required before you hit that post button.

> >

> > Ooo that tea on Azukas is delicious. lol

>

> Having read back through this thread, I'm struggling to find anything stated as "facts" that isn't directly referencing the change description (ie Chronophantasma double shattering won't be a thing because no shattering phantasms - that is a fact). The rest is mostly a lot of conditional "maybe/could/likely/possibly" statements - quite responsible in my opinion.

 

Look harder.

 

> @"moutzaheadin.4029" said:

> There's no panic , I'm telling you how it will be. It was clearly explained. It is a huge blanket nerf.

[Curunen.8729]

@pyro - fair enough, I was kind of glossing over the OP's posts.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

Phantasm was a dps low after cha.ge they will be actelly worth a slot but only for clone too shatter

[moutzaheadin.4029]

Oh , pyro I remember you. Aren't you the guy that wanted to 1v1mebr0 in wvw , I accepted and won every time? Was a long time ago. Couldn't be still mad are ya ? Lol..

 

In the old orb spot was it ? ..

 

As for my original post. I know anets track record. Most of the time when they leave information out it's never ever a good sign.

 

I do understand that the Nerf I'm talking about won't affect the mirage bandwagon so I guess that's why most don't even care or understand it.

 

Chrono shatter as we know it is gone.

 

Fact is Tuesday is coming , the spec I play is definitely going to be nerfed. But I'm used to this treatment after 5 years. Why should this time be any different. You White Knight forums kittens and anet fanbois can care less because most of you play mind numbing 1 push pve anyway.

 

Fact.

 

[Curunen.8729]

> @"moutzaheadin.4029" said:

> Oh , pyro I remember you. Aren't you the guy that wanted to 1v1mebr0 in wvw , I accepted and won every time? Was a long time ago. Couldn't be still mad are ya ? Lol..

>

> In the old orb spot was it ? ..

>

> As for my original post. I know anets track record. Most of the time when they leave information out it's never ever a good sign.

>

> I do understand that the Nerf I'm talking about won't affect the mirage bandwagon so I guess that's why most don't even care or understand it.

>

> Chrono shatter as we know it is gone.

>

> Fact is Tuesday is coming , the spec I play is definitely going to be nerfed. But I'm used to this treatment after 5 years. Why should this time be any different. You White Knight forums kittens and anet fanbois can care less because most of you play mind numbing 1 push pve anyway.

>

> Fact.

>

Just wait and see before getting so stressed. As a dedicated Chrono I'm sure you'll manage to adapt.

 

Hell I'm sure there are going to be equally as many "mirage is dead" complaints once we've seen the full list of changes. Keep on playing. :)

[Turin.6921]

> @"moutzaheadin.4029" said:

 

> Fact is Tuesday is coming , the spec I play is definitely going to be nerfed. But I'm used to this treatment after 5 years. Why should this time be any different. You White Knight forums kittens and anet fanbois can care less because most of you play mind numbing 1 push pve anyway.

 

OMG...you are so right. None has ever had the classes they play nerfed ever before in any game. Who could survive from that? Only the mesmer build you play has suffered from this these last 5 years in GW2. The devs have a clear crusade against the class you play. And no one else understands cause they are casuals. What has the world come to.

I feel you brother...

 

> Fact.

>

 

 

[Nepster.4275]

In my earlier posts in a other thread i was angry because they wanted to change mesmer because its "OP" (it isnt).But after reading all those comments in other threads and the Dev´s comments about the changes i just calmed down , MAYBE this could be a good start to make mesmer a bit better class

[moutzaheadin.4029]

> @"Turin.6921" said:

> > @"moutzaheadin.4029" said:

>

> > Fact is Tuesday is coming , the spec I play is definitely going to be nerfed. But I'm used to this treatment after 5 years. Why should this time be any different. You White Knight forums kittens and anet fanbois can care less because most of you play mind numbing 1 push pve anyway.

>

> OMG...you are so right. None has ever had the classes they play nerfed ever before in any game. Who could survive from that? Only the mesmer build you play has suffered from this these last 5 years in GW2. The devs have a clear crusade against the class you play. And no one else understands cause they are casuals. What has the world come to.

> I feel you brother...

>

> > Fact.

> >

>

>

 

The list of builds I've played since the start as a Mesmer then Chrono is quite long. It's been an adaption period to nearly almost every patch/lolupgrade. Not many are left playing , that know what I'm talking about. Care to guess why ? Anets balance team has no direction and uses kneejerk nerfs to hot fix problems.

 

 

I will do what I always do. Find another way to play the profession that I like so much. I sometimes think that if there was no Mesmer profession I wouldn't even play this game.

 

Not that it matters much anyway as the game mode I also enjoy (wvw) is on life support and will probably be dead come the new changes.

 

 

 

[Turin.6921]

> @"moutzaheadin.4029" said:

 

> I will do what I always do. Find another way to play the profession that I like so much. I sometimes think that if there was no Mesmer profession I wouldn't even play this game.

>

 

Which is what everyone does in any game with any balance change. That is true for any class in the game as well. Every balance patch requires people to adapt. It is part of the game anyway...I really do not see the need for the drama.

 

> Not that it matters much anyway as the game mode I also enjoy (wvw) is on life support and will probably be dead come the new changes.

>

You must be very fun at parties. If you think it is in life support but you do not want changes then what do you want?

 

[moutzaheadin.4029]

There's not any drama. Just a big nerf coming. I guess in the game modes you play it doesn't make a difference.

 

As for the changes to wvw.. I'm All for change. When it makes sense. Turning wvw into an eotm ktrain isn't the right change in my mind.

[Curunen.8729]

> @"moutzaheadin.4029" said:

> > @"Turin.6921" said:

> > > @"moutzaheadin.4029" said:

> >

> > > Fact is Tuesday is coming , the spec I play is definitely going to be nerfed. But I'm used to this treatment after 5 years. Why should this time be any different. You White Knight forums kittens and anet fanbois can care less because most of you play mind numbing 1 push pve anyway.

> >

> > OMG...you are so right. None has ever had the classes they play nerfed ever before in any game. Who could survive from that? Only the mesmer build you play has suffered from this these last 5 years in GW2. The devs have a clear crusade against the class you play. And no one else understands cause they are casuals. What has the world come to.

> > I feel you brother...

> >

> > > Fact.

> > >

> >

> >

>

> The list of builds I've played since the start as a Mesmer then Chrono is quite long. It's been an adaption period to nearly almost every patch/lolupgrade. Not many are left playing , that know what I'm talking about. Care to guess why ? Anets balance team has no direction and uses kneejerk nerfs to hot fix problems.

>

>

> I will do what I always do. Find another way to play the profession that I like so much. I sometimes think that if there was no Mesmer profession I wouldn't even play this game.

>

> Not that it matters much anyway as the game mode I also enjoy (wvw) is on life support and will probably be dead come the new changes.

>

>

>

 

That's a bit presumptuous - many on here are fully aware of all the past balance changes.

 

I believe right now mesmer is in a great space compared with the past, possibly the best space (thinking about the first few years of nerf after nerf), and with this coming update mesmer will have a more robust foundation to be built on than over the entire course of this game.

 

As for the wvw changes - we'll just have to wait and see on that one. Sure I'm not too keen if it becomes eotm ktrain 2.0, but I have faith there will still be some good action to be found. At the very least it will solve the population issues and hopefully make for a more consistent and enjoyable experience.

[moutzaheadin.4029]

> @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > @"moutzaheadin.4029" said:

> > > @"Turin.6921" said:

> > > > @"moutzaheadin.4029" said:

> > >

> > > > Fact is Tuesday is coming , the spec I play is definitely going to be nerfed. But I'm used to this treatment after 5 years. Why should this time be any different. You White Knight forums kittens and anet fanbois can care less because most of you play mind numbing 1 push pve anyway.

> > >

> > > OMG...you are so right. None has ever had the classes they play nerfed ever before in any game. Who could survive from that? Only the mesmer build you play has suffered from this these last 5 years in GW2. The devs have a clear crusade against the class you play. And no one else understands cause they are casuals. What has the world come to.

> > > I feel you brother...

> > >

> > > > Fact.

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > The list of builds I've played since the start as a Mesmer then Chrono is quite long. It's been an adaption period to nearly almost every patch/lolupgrade. Not many are left playing , that know what I'm talking about. Care to guess why ? Anets balance team has no direction and uses kneejerk nerfs to hot fix problems.

> >

> >

> > I will do what I always do. Find another way to play the profession that I like so much. I sometimes think that if there was no Mesmer profession I wouldn't even play this game.

> >

> > Not that it matters much anyway as the game mode I also enjoy (wvw) is on life support and will probably be dead come the new changes.

> >

> >

> >

>

 

> I believe right now mesmer is in a great space compared with the past, possibly the best space (thinking about the first few years of nerf after nerf), and with this coming update mesmer will have a more robust foundation to be built on than over the entire course of this game.

>

 

Yes currently the class is in a good place , which makes me question the purpose for a overhaul this big at this stage of the game.

 

There is no doubt that the shatter Chrono will be much worse then it is currently. Also alot of phantasm utilities will be useless now.

 

 

 

[Curunen.8729]

> @"moutzaheadin.4029" said:

> > @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > > @"moutzaheadin.4029" said:

> > > > @"Turin.6921" said:

> > > > > @"moutzaheadin.4029" said:

> > > >

> > > > > Fact is Tuesday is coming , the spec I play is definitely going to be nerfed. But I'm used to this treatment after 5 years. Why should this time be any different. You White Knight forums kittens and anet fanbois can care less because most of you play mind numbing 1 push pve anyway.

> > > >

> > > > OMG...you are so right. None has ever had the classes they play nerfed ever before in any game. Who could survive from that? Only the mesmer build you play has suffered from this these last 5 years in GW2. The devs have a clear crusade against the class you play. And no one else understands cause they are casuals. What has the world come to.

> > > > I feel you brother...

> > > >

> > > > > Fact.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > The list of builds I've played since the start as a Mesmer then Chrono is quite long. It's been an adaption period to nearly almost every patch/lolupgrade. Not many are left playing , that know what I'm talking about. Care to guess why ? Anets balance team has no direction and uses kneejerk nerfs to hot fix problems.

> > >

> > >

> > > I will do what I always do. Find another way to play the profession that I like so much. I sometimes think that if there was no Mesmer profession I wouldn't even play this game.

> > >

> > > Not that it matters much anyway as the game mode I also enjoy (wvw) is on life support and will probably be dead come the new changes.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

> > I believe right now mesmer is in a great space compared with the past, possibly the best space (thinking about the first few years of nerf after nerf), and with this coming update mesmer will have a more robust foundation to be built on than over the entire course of this game.

> >

>

> Yes currently the class is in a good place , which makes me question the purpose for a overhaul this big at this stage of the game.

>

> There is no doubt that the shatter Chrono will be much worse then it is currently.

Yes you won't be able to chronophantasma double shatter - doesn't mean to say there won't be other ways to play chrono.

>Also alot of phantasm utilities will be useless now.

That's currently unknown. But really, do you use iDefender or iDisenchanter in their current form in wvw? Especially if you need the utility slot for blink/stealth/etc...

 

As for phantasm weapon skills that's also largely unknown - yes they won't be double shatter fodder with chronophantasma, but you don't know what kind of damage or abilities they will have, only that they attack once and spawn a clone on death.

 

[moutzaheadin.4029]

Well , want to beat any type of decent warrior 1v1 with condition. Disenchanter is a must. I use it often to strip boons and use it for a fast 2x shatter. Low cool down.

 

Want to fight more then 1 Condi thief or another Condi Mesmer ? Same. Disenchanter is a difference maker in them fights.

 

I defender is the same when facing say a power mirage or lb ranger. It takes away huge chunks of damage. I also use the trait that spawns a idefender on evade. Huge defensive boost. Plus as I'm sure you know you can shatter for added offensive combo shatters.

 

I have/had* an all around build I use that with a few utility changes can face any class and spec in the game with a chance to win depending on skill.

 

 

[Curunen.8729]

> @"moutzaheadin.4029" said:

> Well , want to beat any type of decent warrior 1v1 with condition. Disenchanter is a must. I use it often to strip boons and use it for a fast 2x shatter. Low cool down.

>

> Want to fight more then 1 Condi thief or another Condi Mesmer ? Same. Disenchanter is a difference maker in them fights.

>

> I defender is the same when facing say a power mirage or lb ranger. It takes away huge chunks of damage. I also use the trait that spawns a idefender on evade. Huge defensive boost. Plus as I'm sure you know you can shatter for added offensive combo shatters.

>

> I have/had* an all around build I use that with a few utility changes can face any class and spec in the game with a chance to win depending on skill.

>

>

 

I realise this is digressing a bit but I find Disenchanter good in 1v1/2 relatively stationary fights but pretty useless in medium size fights or if running/chasing as it rarely keeps up. I kind of prefer the Arcane Thievery route to deal with resistance - but that is with mirage and traited manipulations. Either that or let the power component of hybrid stats chip away at them - not very effective but they can't ignore it either.

 

Yeah Mental Defence should get some kind of rework because even as it is right now it is a pretty bad trait for non-Chronos (without Chronophantasma, Mental Defence is currently too weak for a grandmaster).

 

But ok I can see if you do use those two skills with Chronophantasma then it will be a very big change - though I wouldn't panic yet - we don't know exactly how Disenchanter will work, and while we know the Defender will taunt we don't know if there is any other feature or even the cast time/cooldown.

 

Also who knows - maybe Illusionary Reversion will be unnerfed so you can spawn fresh clones more easily for follow up shatters. That would make sense for them to do.

[Cantatus.4065]

> @"Nepster.4275" said:

> In my earlier posts in a other thread i was angry because they wanted to change mesmer because its "OP" (it isnt).But after reading all those comments in other threads and the Dev´s comments about the changes i just calmed down , MAYBE this could be a good start to make mesmer a bit better class

 

I'm hopeful that it will lead to being able to better address other complaints in the future. I think one of the problems they've had with balancing mesmer has been the sort of seesaw of phantasm vs. weapon damage. You can't adjust one without impacting the other or the class as a whole gets pushed too far in one direction or the other power-wise. It's like they haven't been just balancing mesmer against other classes but against itself as well. A time limit on phantasms should ease this up some.

 

I'm also hopeful that it means they can be more creative with elite specs in the future. Mirage and chrono really don't touch phantasms or shatters much, and I would guess that's for a similar reason. It's been too hard to do anything with them that wouldn't leave the spec completely out of whack. I mean, for a while the highest dps mirage build was also just summoning three phantasms and basically using none of its new mechanics.

[Pyroatheist.9031]

> @"moutzaheadin.4029" said:

> Oh , pyro I remember you. Aren't you the guy that wanted to 1v1mebr0 in wvw , I accepted and won every time? Was a long time ago. Couldn't be still mad are ya ? Lol..

 

Fraid I can't say the same, I have no memory of you. Must not have made much of an impact.

[atlashugged.7642]

I'm excited, and I'm heartened to see that this community is for once shaming the hyperbolic no-evidence whiners instead of embracing them.

[Nimon.7840]

Well as a necro main, i saw the mesmer changes, and i have to say, im afraid of them. They sounded pretty op.

So i spoke to a friend of mine. A mesmer main since beginning of the game.

And he said the same thing.

These changes sound more like "buff buff buff buff buff mesmer" to him as well.

 

And he really is hyped for the changes.

[Carighan.6758]

> @"curtegg.5216" said:

> The one-shot phantasm concept lowers our ability to rally. Old Phantasms continued to DPS while the mesmer was downed, so we had a pretty good chance to rally thanks to their assisted DPS. Now that is gone. More mesmer's will be seeing that once they get downed their chance of rallying will be much lower now.

 

Well according to everything the sPvP community has taught me, nothing less than removing Mesmer #2 downed could make us any less broken. :tongue:

[Chorazin.4107]

Remember when Mirage came out and before anyone had really played it and bedded in a good amount of hrs on the class everyone was like 'oh crap class not as good as chrono, pointless addition'. Now everyone is playing mirage and it's busted af lol.

 

Lets see what the changes bring eh?