Swagg.9236 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 #Life Force Generation Re-work *Necromancers no longer gain life force from the deaths of ambient enemies.* *All skill-specific instances of life force gain are removed (Death Shroud skills and some traits will still generate flat, percentage-based amounts of life force).* > **Soulreap (3s): For each stack, gain 0.5% life force every second.** Whenever a Necromancer successfully strikes a foe in combat, that player gains a stack of **Soulreap** (always a 3-second duration; stacks in intensity up to 5 times baseline). There is no internal cooldown on gaining Soulreap stacks (i.e. if a player strikes 5 foes at once with a single well pulse, that player can gain up to 5 Soulreap stacks). Whenever a player enters into shroud, that player immediately loses all active Soulreap stacks. Players cannot gain Soulreap stacks while in shroud. Certain skills (i.e. spectrals) and power-leaning traits or traitlines can temporarily increase the maximum amount of Soulreap stacks that one can have at a single time. Condition-leaning lines and traits will have minors and some majors embedded with trade-offs which passively (always in effect) reduce (typically by 1 stack per respective trait) the amount of *baseline* Soulreap stacks that a player can have at once. Should a player have a Soulreap stack total that is above that player's respective baseline maximum at the point at which a stack limit increase buff ends, that player's Soulreap stack is immediately reduced to that player's next highest stack limit atural maximum stack limit (i.e. if a player has 8 Soulreap stacks when Spectral Armor ends, and had no other Soulreap stack increase buffs active at the time, that player's stack limit is immediately reset to 5). * Power builds will retain high LF generation through attacking with potential ways to temporarily further increase LF generation by means of conditional triggers or specific actions. Condition builds will still steadily generate LF but at a slower baseline rate than power builds. **SPECTRAL RE-WORKS FOR SOULREAP** >!**[spectral Armor]** >!Recharge: 10s >!Spectral. Gain an initial barrier. Soulreap stack limit is temporarily increased. >!* Initial barrier: 3055 (0.5) >!* Spectral Armor (8s): Soulreap stack limit increased by 3. >!* Maximum Count: 2 >!* Count Recharge: 40s >!* Breaks stun >!**[spectral Walk]** >!Recharge: 25s >!Spectral. Soulreap stack limit is temporarily increased. Gain superspeed at every interval while you are above the Soulreap stack threshold. You may return to your initial position by using Spectral Recall. >!* Spectral Walk (8s): Soulreap stack limit increased by 3; gain superspeed while above the Soulreap stack threshold. >!* Soulreap stack threshold: 5 >!* Interval: 1s >!* Superspeed (1s): Movement Speed is greatly increased >!* Breaks stun >!**[spectral Grasp]** >!Recharge: 15s >!Spectral. Deal increased damage. Soulreap stack is temporarily increased. You may activate Spectral Hale to pull nearby foes to you. >!* Spectral Grasp (10s): +5% Damage; Soulreap stack limit increased by 3. >!**[spectral Hale]** >!Cast-time: ¾s / Recharge: 30s >!Spectral. Pull nearby foes to you. >!* Number of foes: 5 >!* Pull radius: 600 >!* Unblockable >!*Has its own respective cooldown separate from Spectral Grasp.* **DEATH MAGIC RE-WORKS** >!**Putrid Defense** removed and replaced with **Strong Soul** *(Death Magic adept-major)* >!Recharge: 1s >!While at or above the Soulreap stack threshold, gain might at every interval. >!* Soulreap stack threshold: 5 >!* Interval: 1s >!* Might (6s): +30 Power, +30 Condition Damage >!**Soul Comprehension** *(Death Magic master-minor)* >!*Soul Comprehension* (Death Magic major minor) >!When you enter into shroud, you briefly gain life force at every interval. >!* Soul Comprehension (4s): Gain life force at every interval. >!* Interval: 1s >!* Life Force: 3% >!**Deadly Strength** *(Death Magic master-major)* >!If you enter shroud while you are at or above the Soulreap threshold, grant Deadly Strength to nearby allies. >!* Soulreap stack threshold: 5 >!* Number of allies: 10 >!* Deadly Strength (20s): +150 Power, +150 Condition Damage >!* Radius: 300 >!*This effect does not stack in any way. New instances of Deadly Strength will overwrite any active instances.* >!**Corruptor's Fervor** name changed to **Dark Fervor** *(Death Magic grandmaster-major)* >!While at or above the Soulreap stack threshold, pulse increased power to nearby allies at every interval. >!* Number of allies: 10 >!* Soulreap stack threshold: 8 >!* Interval: 3s >!* Dark Fervor (9s): +150 Power >!*Similar to banners, this effect does not stack in any way.* **SOUL REAPING RE-WORKS** >!**Gluttony** *(Soul Reaping adept-minor)* >!* Gain life force for each stack of Soulreap that you lose when you enter into shroud. >!* Life force per Soulreap stack lost: 1% >! **Soul Marks** name changed to **Dark Soul** *(Soul Reaping adept-major)* >! Dark fields last longer. Whenever you execute a blast finisher onto a dark field, you gain life force and damage foes near the blast's location. Entering into shroud now applies a blast finisher at your location. >! * Duration Increase: 2s >! * Life Force: 3% >! * Number of foes: >!**Last Gasp** *(Soul Reaping master-minor)* >!Whenever you are forced from shroud due to a lack of life force, gain a barrier based on your current health. >!* Barrier if above 50% health: 1093 (0.25) >!* Barrier if below 50% health: 1568 (0.25) >!* Barrier if below 25% health: 2043 (0.25) >!**Spectral Mastery** *(Soul Reaping master-major)* >!Spectral skills last longer. Gain bonus power while under a spectral skill's effects. If you are under the effects of a spectral skill while in shroud, you also gain life force at every interval. >!* Duration increase: 2s >!* Spectral Mastery: +180 Power; Gain life force while in shroud >!* Life force gain while in shroud: 1% >!* Life force gain interval: 1s >!**Vital Persistence** *(Soul Reaping master-major)* >! * No longer grants recharge reductions. Recharges adjusted for non-core shroud-related skills (core shroud re-work recharges already take this change into account). >#Unique Necromancer party-support mechanic > **Bloodthirst: Heal for 7.5% of outgoing damage; cannot gain more than a total of 50 (0.5) health in this way per second.** This effect does not stack in any way. Any newly applied instance of Bloodthirst will simply replace older instances. Total potential health gain per second scales directly with the caster's Healing Power regardless of which ally receives the buff. This buff effectively works as a pro-active version of Regeneration (heals in totals which are calculated within 1-second intervals; player must be doing damage to obtain healing). If a player hits the healing cap before a 1-second interval ends, any further damage inflicted during that 1-second interval will not count toward or result in any healing. **BLOOD MAGIC RE-WORKS** >! **Mark of Evasion** name changed to **Ravenous** *(Blood Magic adept-minor)* >!Gain bonus ferocity while under the effects of Bloodthirst. >!* Bonus ferocity: +75 >!**Blood Bond** name changed to **Order of Pain** *(Blood Magic adept-major)* >!Bloodthirst you apply grants increased outgoing damage. >!* Damage Increase: 10% >!*To clarify, this means that Bloodthirst granted from a source with this trait active will grant the recipient 10% increased outgoing damage throughout that instance of Bloodthirst's duration. If this instance of Bloodthirst is overwritten by a source without this trait, then the 10% damage bonus is also removed.* >!**Vampiric** *(Blood Magic master-minor)* >!Bloodthirst heals when it is applied. >!* Healing: 130 (0.125) >!*This healing applies to all allies as well as the user so long as a given instance of Bloodthirst is applied by a user equipped with this trait.* >!**Vampiric Presence** *(Blood Magic master-major)* >!Whenever you grant Bloodthirst to an ally, that ally receives a stacking ferocity bonus. Shroud 4 now applies Bloodthirst to nearby allies. >!* Vampiric Influence (20s): +30 Ferocity >!* Maximum Stacks: 5 >!* Number of allies: 10 >!* Bloodthirst (5s): Heal for 7.5% of outgoing damage; cannot gain more than a total of 50 (0.5) health in this way per second. >!* Radius: 300 >!**Last Rites** *(Blood Magic grandmaster-minor)* >!* Healing Power bonus is now fixed at +150. >!**Vampiric Rituals** *(Blood Magic grandmaster-major)* >!Upon creation, wells grant Bloodthirst to nearby allies. >!* Number of allies: 5 >!* Bloodthirst (3s): Heal for 7.5% of outgoing damage; cannot gain more than a total of 50 (0.5) health in this way per second. >!* Bloodthirst application radius: 300 >!*The radius of this trait's Bloodthirst application is centered at the middle of an associated well's placement location.* **BLOODTHIRST IN NON-WEAPON SKILLS** >!**[blood is Power]** >! Cast-time: ¾s / Recharge: 20s >! Corruption. Grant Might and Bloodthirst to nearby allies. >! * Number of allies: 10 >! * Might|10| (10s): +300 Power, +300 Condition Damage >! * Bloodthirst (5s): Heal for 7.5% of outgoing damage; cannot gain more than a total of 50 (0.5) health in this way per second. >! * Combo Finisher: Blast >! * Radius: 300 >!**[signet of Vampirism]** >! Cast-time: 1¼s / Recharge: 25s >! Passive: While in combat, gain life force over time whenever you are under the effects of Bloodthirst. >! Active: Gain health over time. Mark nearby foes for increased damage and grant Bloodthirst to nearby allies. >! * Passive Combat-Only Bloodthirst life force gain: 0.5% >! * Passive life force gain interval: 1s >! * Self Healing per second: 1620 (0.5) >! * Self Healing duration: 5s >! * Number of allies: 5 >! * Number of targets: 5 >! * Bloodthirst (5s): Heal for 7.5% of outgoing damage; cannot gain more than a total of 50 (0.5) health in this way per second. >! * Vampiric Curse (8s): 15% Incoming Damage >! * Radius: 300 >!**[Well of Suffering]** >!* Recharge reduced from 35s to 15s. >!* Duration (in seconds) and total pulses reduced from 6 to 5 respectively. >!* No longer inflicts vulnerability. >!* Radius reduced from 240 to 180. >!**[Well of Corruption]** >!* Recharge reduced from 40s to 30s. >!**[Well of Power]** >!* Recharge reduced from 40s to 30s. #Weapons and Death Shroud **DAGGER** >! **[Necrotic Slash]** (1a) >! Cast-time: ½s >! Slash foes. >! * Number of targets: 3 >! * Damage: (0.7) >! * Range: 130 >! **[Necrotic Stab]** (1b) >!* Cast-time increased from [current] to ½s. >!* Number of targets increased from 2 to 3. >! **[Necrotic Bite]** (1c) >!Cast-time: ¾s >!Stab foes and increase your maximum Soulreap stack limit. >! * Number of targets: 3 >! * Damage (1.4) >! * Necrotic Bite (3s): Soulreap stack limit increased by 2. >! * Range: 130 >!*This skill only grants an increase to the user's Soulreap stack limit if it successfully strikes a foe.* >! **[Life Siphon]** (2) >! Cast-time: 2¼s / Recharge: ½s >! Siphon life from foes in front of you. While below the life force threshold this skill's initial strike increases your maximum Soulreap stack limit. If you are above the threshold, your initial strike grants Bloodthirst. >! * Number of targets: 5 >! * Damage (4x): (2.8) >! * Life Force threshold: 30% >! * Life Siphon (3s): Soulreap stack limit increased by 2. >! * Bloodthirst (3s): Heal for 7.5% of outgoing damage; cannot gain more than a total of 50 (0.5) health in this way per second. >! * Maximum Count: 2 >! * Count Recharge: 10s >! * Range: 400 >!*This attack strikes foes in a cone identical to Elementalist [Cone of Cold].* >! **[Dark Pact]** (3) >! Cast-time: 1s / Recharge: 10s >! Leap to the target area and damage foes when you land. Deal more damage based on your life force total. >! * Number of targets: 5 >! * Damage below 25% life force: (0.25) >! * Damage above 25% life force: (0.75) >! * Damage above 50% life force: (1.25) >! * Damage above 75% life force: (1.75) >! * Radius: 180 >! * Combo Finisher: Leap >! * Range: 800 >!*Attack functions identically to Engineer's [Jump Shot].* **FOCUS** >! **[Reaper's Touch]** (4) >! Cast-time: ¾s / Recharge: ½s >! Unleash a barrage of necrotic blades that return to you. These blades damage foes and heal allies. >! * Number of targets: 5 >! * Number of allies: 5 >! * Blades: 3 >! * Damage: (0.75) >! * Healing: 130 (0.125) >! * Maximum Count: 2 >! * Count Recharge: 12s >! * Range: 900 >!*This skill fires “necromancer-green” [Vapor Blade] projectiles which space themselves and travel out in a manner that is functionally equivalent to the 3-blade version of the Poobadoo [Vapor Blade] attack.* >! **[spinal Shivers]** (5) >! Cast-time: 1s / Recharge: 20s >! Curse the ground in front of you, damaging and stripping boons from foes with every pulse. If this field strikes a foe without boons, it also dazes that foe. >! * Number of targets: 5 >! * Damage (5x): (3.0) >! * Boons removed per pulse: 2 >! * Daze vs foes without boons: 1s >! * Field duration: 5s >! * Combo Field: Ice >! * Range: 480 >! * Unblockable >!*Skill functions akin to Revenant [searing Fissure]. The field created by this skill also matches the size of [searing Fissure].* >!*The field strikes immediately upon creation and then at the start of each second of its duration (6 strikes total).* **DEATH SHROUD** >! **[Life Blast]** >! Cast-time: 1s >! Unleash a blast of life force that explodes on impact, damaging nearby foes. If you are above the life force threshold, this blast leaves behind a pulsing field of dark energy which continues to damage foes. >! * Number of blast targets: 3 >! * Blast damage: (1.4) >! * Blast radius: 180 >! * Range: 1200 >! * Life Force Threshold: 75% >! * Number of Field targets: 5 >! * Field damage (2x): (1.6) >! * Field duration: 2s >! * Field radius: 150 >!*Shares the same projectile arc and travel speed as Elementalist [Fireball].* >!*The field strikes foes at the end of each second of its duration.* >!*The pulsing, threshold-conditional field has no combo field typing in order to prevent excessive mono-type field spam.* >! **[Dark Path]** >! Recharge: ½s >! Teleport to the target location. >! * Maximum Count: 2 >! * Count Recharge: 15s >! * Range: 600 >! **[Doom]** >! Recharge: 15s >! Fear foes at the target location. >! * Number of targets: 5 >! * Fear (1s): Involuntary retreat; unable to act; stacks duration >! * Radius: 150 >! * Range: 900 >! **[Life Transfer]** >! * Recharge reduced from 40s to 30s. >! **[Tainted Shackles] (PvP)** >! Cast-time: ¼s / Recharge: ½s >! Reveal and bind nearby foes with your life force, increasing incoming damage on them. If the bind is allowed to expire naturally, it inflicts heavy damage. >! * Number of targets: 5 >! * Initial revealed (3s): You cannot stealth >! * Tainted Shackles (4s): 15% Incoming Damage, 15% Incoming Condition Damage >! * Expiration damage: (1.75) >! * Maximum Count: 2 >! * Count Recharge: 25s >! * Shackle radius: 600 >! * Unblockable >! **[Tainted Shackles] (PvE)** >! Cast-time: ¼s / Recharge: ½s >! Reveal and bind nearby foes with your life force, increasing incoming damage on them. If the bind is allowed to expire naturally, it inflicts heavy damage. >! * Number of targets: 5 >! * Initial revealed (3s): You cannot stealth >! * Tainted Shackles (6s): 15% Incoming Damage, 15% Incoming Condition Damage >! * Expiration damage: (3.0) >! * Maximum Count: 2 >! * Count Recharge: 25s >! * Shackle radius: 600 >! * Unblockable #Other Skill Changes **HEALING SKILLS** >!**[Consume Conditions]** >!Cast-time: 1¾s / Recharge: 20s >!Heal yourself and consume conditions with every pulse. Gain life force whenever you consume conditions in this way. >!* Pulse heal: 1060 (0.15) >!* Conditions consumed per heal: 2 >!* Life force per condition consumed: 2% >!* Pulses: 5 >!**[Well of Blood]** >!* Recharge reduced from 30s to 25s. **UTILITY SKILLS** >!**[Corrosive Poison Cloud]** >!* No longer self-inflicts weakness. >!* Weakness per pulse reduced from 3s to 2s. >!* Recharge reduced from 30s to 25s. >!* Radius reduced from 240 to 180. >!* Cast-time reduced from ½s to 0 (instant). >!* Now breaks stun. >!**[Corrupt Boon]** >!Cast-time: ½s / Recharge: 15s >!Transform foes' boons into bleeding. >!* Number of targets: 5 >!* Boons converted: 3 >!* Bleeding|3| (8s) per boon: [damage] >!* Radius: 180 >!* Range: 1200 >!* Unblockable >!**[signet of Spite]** >!Recharge: 25s >!Passive: Blind nearby foes when you enter into shroud. >!Active: Remove boons from nearby foes and knock them back with a blast of necrotic energy. >!Passive blind (3s): Next outgoing attack misses >!* Number of targets: 5 >!* Boons removed: [stability], [Protection], [Resistance] >!* Knockback: 450 >!* Unblockable >!* Breaks stun >!**[Plague Signet]** >!Cast-time: 2¼s / Recharge: 25s >!Passive: Cure conditions on nearby allies whenever you enter shroud; you suffer from vulnerability for each condition cured in this way. >!Active: Cure conditions on yourself and breathe out a cone of necrotic energy. This cone's damage increases for each condition cured in this way. >!* Passive number of allies: 5 >!* Passive conditions cured: 2 >!* Condition cure radius: 300 >!* Passive vulnerability (5s): 1% Incoming Damage >!* Active conditions cured: 10 >!* Number of targets: 5 >!* Damage (4x): (3.2) >!* Damage bonus per condition cured: 25% >!* Range: 400 >!* Breaks stun **ELITE SKILLS** >!**[Lich Form]** name changed to **[Aura of the Lich]** >!Cast-time: 4s / Recharge: 60s >!Channel a spell which siphons health and vitality from nearby enemies. >!* Number of targets: 5 >!* Life Siphon damage: 440 (0.125) >!* Life Siphon heal 440 (0.125) >!* Vitality per Stack (10s): 40 Vitality >!* Pulses: 5 >!* Radius: 450 >!* Unblockable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeftheWicked.3076 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 This is a forum, so usually you'll get a lor of voices of disagreement rather then agreement. From general overview of things you're too focused on power gains and "tick" boosts, leaving active and unique defensive aspects of necro behind. And i don't like that. Prime example being corrupter's fervor - imho curret fervor is a great trait and a strong highlight of otherwise lackluster death magic line. It's also very unique (20% condi damage reduction + 300 tougness as long as you can keep 10 stacks up). I don't want to see it turned into another generic + power boost, given it's unique functionality and potential (as far a necro is concerned). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 It might be drown into the sea of data but do the shroud still work as an health barrier in your "competitive" redesign? It might be better for the profession as a whole if _unholy martyr_ where to give a flat barrier instead of throwing the player into shroud. Maybe you could add this to death magic? _Soulreap_ "buff" affected by death magic instead of soul reaping feel wrong. I honnestly dislike your idea of _bloodthirst_. Any way, I see a BM/DM/scourge granting 450 extra power, 150 ferocity and 150 condition damage, a good share of might, barrier, boon corruption, health (of course), condition conversion... etc. This is no longer competitive, it's overwhelming... Just 300 extra power would be enough to compete against a warrior, here they are totally overtaken. The game would be fairer if professions that give extra stat saw these ability being replaced, adding more of it will just increase imbalance. Shroud: No to the field on life blast. No to doom. YES to life transfert. I'm torn because it's very attractive but no to tainted shackle, it's just way to strong and lose it's identity as a restraining tool. I disagree with _corrupt boon_ it should be the only ability that properly corrupt boons. It shouldn't be the one that have it's ability nerfed. I like what you did to _signet of spite_, thought it became unfit to work with _signet of suffering_ which mean there is a need to touch the trait. _Plague signet_: Wat? _aura of the lich_: As long as lich form disappear it's ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagg.9236 Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 > @"ZeftheWicked.3076" said: > This is a forum, so usually you'll get a lor of voices of disagreement rather then agreement. > From general overview of things you're too focused on power gains and "tick" boosts, leaving active and unique defensive aspects of necro behind. And i don't like that. You don't *like* it, and that's just how you feel then. Meanwhile, this thing that you *don't like* is the only means of getting necro back into competitive PvE. > Prime example being corrupter's fervor - imho curret fervor is a great trait and a strong highlight of otherwise lackluster death magic line. It's also very unique (20% condi damage reduction + 300 tougness as long as you can keep 10 stacks up). I don't want to see it turned into another generic + power boost, given it's unique functionality and potential (as far a necro is concerned). Corruptor's fervor is worthless since it's trapped in a line that nobody takes, and it's not creative or engaging since a scourge can max out the stacks with 3 buttons while Unholy Sanctuary is alpha dog in that slot for all other options whichwould contemplate even taking death magic for some reason. This rework would make death magic a meta PvE line without changing anything about any part of the game mode. Death Magic is never used, so any changes to it have zero initial impact on current build set-ups (especially those focused on PvP). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morde.3158 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Gotta think inside anet box sometimes for me personally the only thing I want to see is a Base shroud 2 rework make it ground target and increase the cool down on it to a reasonable number, good brainstorming though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyse.8179 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 This would be epic. I think it's probably beyond Anet's abilities though. I'll settle for "no LF from ambient deaths" and a corresponding rebalance of skill-based LF gain. And also no LF degeneration once those are done. That would be good enough, imo, and more likely to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero.3871 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 and how do you want reg LF in pvp, wvw in a 1 on 1 against mesmers, thiefes etc. you can't hit 90 % of time because of invuls, dodges, invis, blocks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagg.9236 Posted February 5, 2018 Author Share Posted February 5, 2018 > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > It might be drown into the sea of data but do the shroud still work as an health barrier in your "competitive" redesign? It works in the same way. > It might be better for the profession as a whole if _unholy martyr_ where to give a flat barrier instead of throwing the player into shroud. Maybe you could add this to death magic? I think you mean unholy sanctuary? But not a bad idea. > _Soulreap_ "buff" affected by death magic instead of soul reaping feel wrong. That's entirely a flavor-based criticism. Tell me why it would be good to entirely neglect a bad line ripe for improvement instead. Go on, tell me. > I honnestly dislike your idea of _bloodthirst_. OK.jpg > Any way, I see a BM/DM/scourge granting 450 extra power, 150 ferocity and 150 condition damage, a good share of might, barrier, boon corruption, health (of course), condition conversion... etc. This is no longer competitive, it's overwhelming... Just 300 extra power would be enough to compete against a warrior, here they are totally overtaken. The game would be fairer if professions that give extra stat saw these ability being replaced, adding more of it will just increase imbalance. Since all of these bonuses don't stack, they don't compete with the idea of having a diverse party. I probably should have included some of the re-works to soul reaping. The idea was to make core a top contender again. Moreover, just because scourge is an overtuned meme made to help sell PoF doesn't mean that we should take it for granted. It deserves a massive nerfdown and general re-work to how some of its abilities function and trigger. On top of this, core shroud would now provide a party wide damage boost, and the coefficients on the re-worked dagger/focus set would be a huge DPS boost to power necro which might allow it to compete with condi scourge. > Shroud: No to the field on life blast. No to doom. YES to life transfert. You aren't giving any reasons. You're just saying affirmative and negatives, my man. >I'm torn because it's very attractive but no to tainted shackle, it's just way to strong and lose it's identity as a restraining tool. It has no identity if nobody takes core shroud to begin with. Also, it had a trash identity anyway since its original purpose wasn't to be a restraining tool but ratherto showcase the hot new meme condi on the block: torment. You remember? The one that was going to be a necro-unique condi ("unique" despite how it was just another generic damage-over-time source)? But then it just bloated the game even further with its presence? > I disagree with _corrupt boon_ it should be the only ability that properly corrupt boons. It shouldn't be the one that have it's ability nerfed. You are still failing to give any real reasons here. The big effect of corrupt boon, first and foremost, is removing boons. The arbitrary, flavor-based conversion table is mostly an afterthought. This sort of change would be a much welcome step towards less combat clutter since the skill would still do its job of burning off important boons. > I like what you did to _signet of spite_, thought it became unfit to work with _signet of suffering_ which mean there is a need to touch the trait. There would have to be a number of trait changes. I wish the trait system would just get a mass culling to its bulk and then compact what little remained. Reduce the bloat enough, and bad, flavor-based traits like signets of suffering would just disappear entirely, freeing us up from having to deal with them at all. I mean, it says a lot about a trait's combat-complementary importance, design and purpose when it gets like 3 random re-designs over the game's existence and yet it still never sees play (except for that one tiny bit when it corrupted everybody's boons in a huge radius; oh, yeah, very engaging and interesting passive). > _Plague signet_: Wat? More steps toward less combat clutter. Still clears conditions and breaks stuns, buy now positioning is required for its effect to have an impact. > _aura of the lich_: As long as lich form disappear its ok That was the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > It might be drown into the sea of data but do the shroud still work as an health barrier in your "competitive" redesign? > > It works in the same way. In my opinion there will never be a "competitive" necromancer as long as shroud will be used both as offense and defensive mechanism. And it's never been proven wrong these last 5 years. > > It might be better for the profession as a whole if _unholy martyr_ where to give a flat barrier instead of throwing the player into shroud. Maybe you could add this to death magic? > > I think you mean unholy sanctuary? But not a bad idea. Indeed that's what I meant. > > _Soulreap_ "buff" affected by death magic instead of soul reaping feel wrong. > > That's entirely a flavor-based criticism. Tell me why it would be good to entirely neglect a bad line ripe for improvement instead. Go on, tell me. Soul reaping deal with "life" (life force), death magic deal with "death" (minion or anything that mean death). All in all, your soulreap buff is meant to expand the "life" of the necromancer and this belong to soul reaping while death magic is meant to use "death" as an external tool. This is the very reason there exist 2 different traitlines that do the same almost the same job: protecting the necromancer. What you do is just giving a 2nd soul reaping traitline. Now, I personnally think that anet fucked up when they decided to chose blood magic as the support traitline instead of Death magic. Death magic which deal with minions and should deal with reinforcing them (along with our allies) would have been a way more fitting candidate. But ultimately death magic have been designed as a defensive traitline and we have to deal with it. The point is more that for balance purpose we we need to have traitlines that are formated the same way as other professions with a power traitline, a condi traitline, a defensive traitline, a sustain traitline and a special mechanism traitline. Anet chose to give the necromancer a support theme that revolve around dealing with conditions. And to deal with conditions you need to heal your allies, cleanse them, draw conditions from them... etc. The necromancer support theme do not deal with reinforcing our allies it deal with life. Now, yes I do feel it's dumb as... However, as the realm of giving power to other is already claimed by the warrior and that's his support philosophy, whatever we want it's not meant for the necromancer. > > I honnestly dislike your idea of _bloodthirst_. > > OK.jpg Can't help it, not everyone like idea of others. > > Any way, I see a BM/DM/scourge granting 450 extra power, 150 ferocity and 150 condition damage, a good share of might, barrier, boon corruption, health (of course), condition conversion... etc. This is no longer competitive, it's overwhelming... Just 300 extra power would be enough to compete against a warrior, here they are totally overtaken. The game would be fairer if professions that give extra stat saw these ability being replaced, adding more of it will just increase imbalance. > > Since all of these bonuses don't stack, they don't compete with the idea of having a diverse party. I probably should have included some of the re-works to soul reaping. The idea was to make core a top contender again. Moreover, just because scourge is an overtuned meme made to help sell PoF doesn't mean that we should take it for granted. It deserves a massive nerfdown and general re-work to how some of its abilities function and trigger. On top of this, core shroud would now provide a party wide damage boost, and the coefficients on the re-worked dagger/focus set would be a huge DPS boost to power necro which might allow it to compete with condi scourge. I'm pretty sure it would be more of a pain than anything for the devs to make sure all of those things don't stack. Honestly, It's to much and it does not fit the support thematic of the necromancer. > > Shroud: No to the field on life blast. No to doom. YES to life transfert. > > You aren't giving any reasons. You're just saying affirmative and negatives, my man. The field on life blast is to much and wouldn't really fix the issue which is life blast having a long cast time and a slow projectile. Knowing anet they wouldn't be able to refrain from giving it a bothersome dark field which would hinder even more the skill. That's why it's a no! Doom is fine as is. It's doesn't need to be a copy of our down skill. At best, a cool down reduction would be welcome but that's all. Life transfert deserve this cool down reduction since it does have the weakest effect amongst all specs yet bear the longest cool down. The balance of this skill atm is a nonsense. > >I'm torn because it's very attractive but no to tainted shackle, it's just way to strong and lose it's identity as a restraining tool. > > It has no identity if nobody takes core shroud to begin with. Also, it had a trash identity anyway since its original purpose wasn't to be a restraining tool but ratherto showcase the hot new meme condi on the block: torment. You remember? The one that was going to be a necro-unique condi ("unique" despite how it was just another generic damage-over-time source)? But then it just bloated the game even further with its presence? > Yes torment was sold as the necromancer condition and given in large amount to warriors and mesmers. But no, the identity of this skill is and have always been to be a restraining tool. The main issue of the necromancer being that their foes tend to be more swift than them, anet choose to give the necromancer tools to keep those foes at bay instead of giving them tools to chase them. Tainted shackles is a skill that follow this will. In a way it's the first born of all those nonsense traits and skills that are meant to reduce the necromancer's foes movement yet are useless in PvE and gamebreaking in PvP/WvW leading to numerous nerfs. In short it's the model for reaper's chill and scourge's cripple/torment. It's something I said in another thread but it fit also here: Anet want the necromancer to bring down foes to it's level, not to bring up himself or allies up to it's foes level. > > I disagree with _corrupt boon_ it should be the only ability that properly corrupt boons. It shouldn't be the one that have it's ability nerfed. > > You are still failing to give any real reasons here. The big effect of corrupt boon, first and foremost, is removing boons. The arbitrary, flavor-based conversion table is mostly an afterthought. This sort of change would be a much welcome step towards less combat clutter since the skill would still do its job of burning off important boons. Corrupt boon, the skill, is the precursor of the boon corruption that we know nowadays. It's the father of all boon corruptions. It's not this skills that need to be brought down but other boon corruptions that need to be more specifics. Well anyway, you won't accept my opinion on this so... > > I like what you did to _signet of spite_, thought it became unfit to work with _signet of suffering_ which mean there is a need to touch the trait. > > There would have to be a number of trait changes. I wish the trait system would just get a mass culling to its bulk and then compact what little remained. Reduce the bloat enough, and bad, flavor-based traits like signets of suffering would just disappear entirely, freeing us up from having to deal with them at all. I mean, it says a lot about a trait's combat-complementary importance, design and purpose when it gets like 3 random re-designs over the game's existence and yet it still never sees play (except for that one tiny bit when it corrupted everybody's boons in a huge radius; oh, yeah, very engaging and interesting passive). > > > _Plague signet_: Wat? > > More steps toward less combat clutter. Still clears conditions and breaks stuns, buy now positioning is required for its effect to have an impact. > > > _aura of the lich_: As long as lich form disappear its ok > > That was the idea. > > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 I feel like this is not the first time you have made this post here and i feel like i read it and replied before the idea behind bloodthirst is kind of meh i dont like it because I feel like it wouldn't make necro any better and possible make it less synergetic than alot of its stuff already is not to mention thats a whole lot of rebalancing in itself. not including everything else you typed up. Your ideas for some things on base shroud are horrid for example Changing life blast to be like elementalist staff 1 fireball in terms of projectile arc and speed. It means that against several professions it wouldnt even hit. Not to mention its a profession mechanic it shouldn't be as weak and lacking as something like a standard weapon auto attack. Everyone knows Arc projectiles are fubar in this game unless the move at the speed of long bow arrows. While dark path would give some nice mobility is that all its going to be? A mobility tool with no condition or application what so ever? No thanks ill keep my heavy tracking unblockable with chill application and potential to corrupt boons. If you add more to what it currently does i would be all for a aoe ground teleport. I like the idea of making doom an aoe but you kill its high potential duration as a result and fear is already weak enough as is for a condition that can be killed by breakstun, condi clense, and resistance. On a second note Reaper can already do this. You should include that life transfer needs to be about a 25% cast reduction time allowing it to burst harder and it should also apply a weak nutral condition perhaps poison for 1 second applied on each hit. Tainted shackles should not really need a recharge count or ammo system. Its duration is 3 seconds in which you will likely want to drop shroud to use something more effective to burst with such as axe, (life trans and life blast are currently too slow to be effective tools to make the most of that dps increase effect) In all honestly I say leave shackles as they are and instead of immobilize change the final condition to be a bigger burst of damage and perhaps a different end condition. Torment into immobilize is kind of stupid it itself as it prevents the max dps use of torment being applied. Torment into Fear would be more ideal not only giving necros another much needed fear and stun tool to combo from. it would make the skill = to reapers 5 which is a massive chunk of damage and stun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagg.9236 Posted March 5, 2018 Author Share Posted March 5, 2018 This is really late, but I haven't been on here very much lately. > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > I feel like this is not the first time you have made this post here and i feel like i read it and replied before the idea behind bloodthirst is kind of meh i dont like it because I feel like it wouldn't make necro any better and possible make it less synergetic than alot of its stuff already is not to mention thats a whole lot of rebalancing in itself. not including everything else you typed up. Bloodthirst is sort of up in the air, but the fundamental idea beneath it is reality of how unique buffs and debuffs are what keep certain classes viable in a class-based video game scenario. Consider how Chrono Mesmer has been top tier PvE meta even after the change from alacrity into a boon because Mesmer is the only class that can consistently spam it and grant it to allies. Bloodthirst was conceived as Necromancer's alacrity given how the Blood Magic line was redesigned, but it isn't necessarily vital to the overall changes since the Soulreap mechanic and most of the skill re-works I've laid out generally make playing Necromancer less of a bore, less target-dependent, and provides it with a lot more party utility. You can't really deny, though, that adding another mechanic to balance and juggle for allies' benefit wouldn't liven up what Necro does with its otherwise pretty bland skill set. Bloodthirst was also a way to normalize the stupid life siphon "mechanic" which has no real standard form in any of its incarnations across all classes. It's just a bunch of spaghetti code slathered onto random skills for flavor's sake. At least Bloodthirst provides a way to capitalize on a standardized mechanic similar to applying boons, performing combo finishers or using a healing skill. > > Your ideas for some things on base shroud are horrid for example > Changing life blast to be like elementalist staff 1 fireball in terms of projectile arc and speed. It means that against several professions it wouldnt even hit. Not to mention its a profession mechanic it shouldn't be as weak and lacking as something like a standard weapon auto attack. Everyone knows Arc projectiles are fubar in this game unless the move at the speed of long bow arrows. This game needs skills which reward positioning if it's ever going to stop being a tremendous joke. Ele fireball is also incredibly versatile if you don't just rely entirely on anet's sub-par tab targeting system. It's perfectly good for spamming points (especially if it's going to deal as much damage as this rework), and you can also free-aim it on yourself or in a general direction with decent accuracy (especially considering how 180 radius is a pretty huge hitbox). This re-work is an automatic upgrade to the damage capability of the original set-up once combined with the rest of the core DS rework. On top of all this, considering how life force is just extra HP separate from a necro's true HP bar, relying on a fireball to pull heavy hitting damage isn't as ridiculous as expecting the same from an 11k Elementalist. Face-tanking a fireball-shooting necro could be lethal, especially if that necro had instant mobility and CC such as with the two Dark Path charges and change to Doom. > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > While dark path would give some nice mobility is that all its going to be? A mobility tool with no condition or application what so ever? No thanks ill keep my heavy tracking unblockable with chill application and potential to corrupt boons. If you add more to what it currently does i would be all for a aoe ground teleport. Its utility as a ground-targeted, instantaneous blink which doesn't interrupt skills is far more utilitarian than the current version (even with the current version's slapped-on gimmicks). It can be used to keep on targets, back away or **avoid damage** (the last one is something that Necro really can't do adequately). The re-work I have complements the entire DS redesign far more adequately than a slow, auto-aimed, target-reliant teleport which removes a few boons which will only be slapped back on again. > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > I like the idea of making doom an aoe but you kill its high potential duration as a result and fear is already weak enough as is for a condition that can be killed by breakstun, condi clense, and resistance. On a second note Reaper can already do this. But Reaper's fear is a PBAoE. An instant, ranged, ground-targeted, AoE fear is already powerful enough at 1s, and again, complements the high damage capability of the core DS rework by allowing the Necro to get off or maintain pressure with one or two important abilities. > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > You should include that life transfer needs to be about a 25% cast reduction time allowing it to burst harder and it should also apply a weak nutral condition perhaps poison for 1 second applied on each hit. No more tacked-on conditions. It's just an arbitrary damage bonus (along with your random idea of lowering the cast-time). Considering that the attack is already a 5-target, 600 radius PBAoE, there is no reason why a half-brained necro couldn't use a Dark Path charge to make sure a single one landed adequately onto a certain target group. Given how huge the radius is, it'd even be very possible to start casting it, and then Dark Path behind a target as a means of evading, adding a little more confusion to the field, and still dealing massive damage (don't you realize how high the overall damage coefficient on Life Transfer is already? It's tremendous.). > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > Tainted shackles should not really need a recharge count or ammo system. Its duration is 3 seconds in which you will likely want to drop shroud to use something more effective to burst with such as axe, (life trans and life blast are currently too slow to be effective tools to make the most of that dps increase effect) In all honestly I say leave shackles as they are and instead of immobilize change the final condition to be a bigger burst of damage and perhaps a different end condition. > Torment into immobilize is kind of stupid it itself as it prevents the max dps use of torment being applied. > Torment into Fear would be more ideal not only giving necros another much needed fear and stun tool to combo from. it would make the skill = to reapers 5 which is a massive chunk of damage and stun. This game is already overly burdened with CC. The excessive CC makes PvP less enjoyable, and it serves a very limited purpose in PvE. The party-wide, outgoing damage increase provided by the re-worked version would always be welcome in all situations. It still leaves room for counterplay in PvP while simultaneously increasing the threat factor of a good necromancer, and it also provides a meta-tier debuff in PvE which would constantly see rotation use. All in all, these core DS changes provide a bigger DPS boost, increased mobility, easier-to-aim attacks and also a valuable party damage booster. There's really no fundamental downside here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagg.9236 Posted March 5, 2018 Author Share Posted March 5, 2018 > @"Zero.3871" said: > and how do you want reg LF in pvp, wvw in a 1 on 1 against mesmers, thiefes etc. you can't hit 90 % of time because of invuls, dodges, invis, blocks? The problem with your point is that Soulreap is a fair, active and much more consistent way for a Necromancer to generate life force since it no longer binds LF generation to arbitrary tool-tips randomly scattered across weapon sets. It's not really fair to criticize a good mechanic by putting it side by side with unfair nonsense. One is fair and the other is not; that doesn't make the fair one bad or in need to conform to a bad design. That said, one of the ideas I had at one point was to make it so Necromancers always had at least 25% LF in the tank at all times. Outside of combat, it would regenerate up to 25% max and simply sit there. At least this way, there was a means to open with DS or switch into it quickly if caught by something like a meme class who teleports from 2400 range away and dazes you before spamming 2k autoattacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 > @"Swagg.9236" said: > This is really late, but I haven't been on here very much lately. > > Bloodthirst is sort of up in the air, but the fundamental idea beneath it is reality of how unique buffs and debuffs are what keep certain classes viable in a class-based video game scenario. Consider how Chrono Mesmer has been top tier PvE meta even after the change from alacrity into a boon because Mesmer is the only class that can consistently spam it and grant it to allies. Bloodthirst was conceived as Necromancer's alacrity given how the Blood Magic line was redesigned, but it isn't necessarily vital to the overall changes since the Soulreap mechanic and most of the skill re-works I've laid out generally make playing Necromancer less of a bore, less target-dependent, and provides it with a lot more party utility. You can't really deny, though, that adding another mechanic to balance and juggle for allies' benefit wouldn't liven up what Necro does with its otherwise pretty bland skill set. > > Bloodthirst was also a way to normalize the stupid life siphon "mechanic" which has no real standard form in any of its incarnations across all classes. It's just a bunch of spaghetti code slathered onto random skills for flavor's sake. At least Bloodthirst provides a way to capitalize on a standardized mechanic similar to applying boons, performing combo finishers or using a healing skill. Well another fact of the matter is that not all professions have a life sipon mechanic and the few others that do actually work pretty well often better than the necromancers do. BloodThirst honestly sounds more like a thief, warrior mechanic than a necromancer. Unless they make a new elite spec "Vampire or something" its not really fitting of a dark arts master to be bloodthirsty. Honestly to fix necros siphon they just need to get the numbers right plain and simple. > This game needs skills which reward positioning if it's ever going to stop being a tremendous joke. Ele fireball is also incredibly versatile if you don't just rely entirely on anet's sub-par tab targeting system. It's perfectly good for spamming points (especially if it's going to deal as much damage as this rework), and you can also free-aim it on yourself or in a general direction with decent accuracy (especially considering how 180 radius is a pretty huge hitbox). This re-work is an automatic upgrade to the damage capability of the original set-up once combined with the rest of the core DS rework. On top of all this, considering how life force is just extra HP separate from a necro's true HP bar, relying on a fireball to pull heavy hitting damage isn't as ridiculous as expecting the same from an 11k Elementalist. Face-tanking a fireball-shooting necro could be lethal, especially if that necro had instant mobility and CC such as with the two Dark Path charges and change to Doom. > hmmmmm no.... Having good positioning is not the same thing as a projectile vs projectile bases. Necros generally always must have good positioning because once you engage you cant disengage unless some one peels for you or you kill your targets. What you are saying is that life blast should be ideally nerfed in speed and tracking just to force necros into having better positioning. Have you considered the fact that maybe the reason why this projectile is one of the best in the game is because it does not follow the ground (like most broken projectiles do) and it does not arc (like most broken projectiles do.) By broken i mean they miss 40%-70% of the time. Sorry but i cant agree with your statement. The targeting system in the game is fine in fact its one of the best in an mmo. What determines projectile accuracy is its speed, arc (if it has one), and if it has a blast on hitting another object. ITs the reason you can side step over and over and dodge warrior arrows, thief arrows, ele fire balls at the right distance etc. Fact of the mater is life blast has one of the best tracking codes in the game thats likely even better than Ranger longbow because life blast can actually turn and hit people. Its almost like its some sort of magical projectile o wait it is :U > Its utility as a ground-targeted, instantaneous blink which doesn't interrupt skills is far more utilitarian than the current version (even with the current version's slapped-on gimmicks). It can be used to keep on targets, back away or **avoid damage** (the last one is something that Necro really can't do adequately). The re-work I have complements the entire DS redesign far more adequately than a slow, auto-aimed, target-reliant teleport which removes a few boons which will only be slapped back on again. I'll give you this one the shroud 2 skill could be better but at its current state its not the worst skill in necros kit so i would prefer other things get looked at before it. > > But Reaper's fear is a PBAoE. An instant, ranged, ground-targeted, AoE fear is already powerful enough at 1s, and again, complements the high damage capability of the core DS rework by allowing the Necro to get off or maintain pressure with one or two important abilities. Reapers aoe fear is shorter than doom and its not an instant fear either. IT actually has a cast time that can be interrupted. If necro had more access to fears in general i would agree with you but it does not. So having a single target fear that has a potentially longer duration is better imo. What it needs is ammo and it would be perfect. Reaper and Scourge give you access to a aoe fear and ranged aoe fear. Core does not need it in its kit too. > > No more tacked-on conditions. It's just an arbitrary damage bonus (along with your random idea of lowering the cast-time). Considering that the attack is already a 5-target, 600 radius PBAoE, there is no reason why a half-brained necro couldn't use a Dark Path charge to make sure a single one landed adequately onto a certain target group. Given how huge the radius is, it'd even be very possible to start casting it, and then Dark Path behind a target as a means of evading, adding a little more confusion to the field, and still dealing massive damage (don't you realize how high the overall damage coefficient on Life Transfer is already? It's tremendous.). Considering core is not defined as pure condition or pure power yes it needs a condition applied to it. IT does not need to be a strong condition but to fit the rest of the theme as well as almost every shroud 4 skill when looked at the elite specs it needs it. You say its tremendous let me point out a few things. Average power build it will do roughly 6k in a aoe if you finish the full channel. 3.5 seconds Warriors can press 1 button and achive an aoe 6k or higher in not even a third the channel time. Guardian can also do this in one button maybe half the time with a weapon skill Some of ele's skills can do this depending on the spec. Engi can do this. in far less the time. Im not asking for much of a dps increase but it needs a condition to support people who want to play condition builds otherwise you just really dont use the skill & people on power builds the channel time should not be 3.5 seconds. For 3.5 seconds it should be doing much more ideally. > > This game is already overly burdened with CC. The excessive CC makes PvP less enjoyable, and it serves a very limited purpose in PvE. The party-wide, outgoing damage increase provided by the re-worked version would always be welcome in all situations. It still leaves room for counter play in PvP while simultaneously increasing the threat factor of a good necromancer, and it also provides a meta-tier debuff in PvE which would constantly see rotation use. Bruh shakles has easy counter play in pvp you just take about 7 steps away from the necromancer and break the chain. I can promise you if you want to start talking cc reduction start looking every where but necromancer because its got on average 2 fears 1 from shroud skills 1 from staff 5. IF you count reaper then 1 from gs pull. Any other bonus fear comes from converts which can be totally rng when a person is boon spamming themselves. If you think the game has too many cc's tell that to warriors, mesmers, rangers, and thiefs because all these examples have loads more hard cc's than core necro does even when they are spec'ed to core. Not to mention fear is a soft cc. It can be broken by condi clense, ignored by resistance and stability, as well as broken by break stuns. > > All in all, these core DS changes provide a bigger DPS boost, increased mobility, easier-to-aim attacks and also a valuable party damage booster. There's really no fundamental downside here. > Any time you trade a fast non arcing projectile for a slow arcing one just so it can do some splash damage thats a massive down side. Not understanding that torment into immobilize is a design flaw is a down side. Not wanting to give necros more base fear access, how is this not a down side. Now im starting to question if you have actually put any real time into playing core or necro in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagg.9236 Posted March 8, 2018 Author Share Posted March 8, 2018 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > This is really late, but I haven't been on here very much lately. > > > > Bloodthirst is sort of up in the air, but the fundamental idea beneath it is reality of how unique buffs and debuffs are what keep certain classes viable in a class-based video game scenario. Consider how Chrono Mesmer has been top tier PvE meta even after the change from alacrity into a boon because Mesmer is the only class that can consistently spam it and grant it to allies. Bloodthirst was conceived as Necromancer's alacrity given how the Blood Magic line was redesigned, but it isn't necessarily vital to the overall changes since the Soulreap mechanic and most of the skill re-works I've laid out generally make playing Necromancer less of a bore, less target-dependent, and provides it with a lot more party utility. You can't really deny, though, that adding another mechanic to balance and juggle for allies' benefit wouldn't liven up what Necro does with its otherwise pretty bland skill set. > > > > Bloodthirst was also a way to normalize the stupid life siphon "mechanic" which has no real standard form in any of its incarnations across all classes. It's just a bunch of spaghetti code slathered onto random skills for flavor's sake. At least Bloodthirst provides a way to capitalize on a standardized mechanic similar to applying boons, performing combo finishers or using a healing skill. > > Well another fact of the matter is that not all professions have a life sipon mechanic and the few others that do actually work pretty well often better than the necromancers do. BloodThirst honestly sounds more like a thief, warrior mechanic than a necromancer. Unless they make a new elite spec "Vampire or something" its not really fitting of a dark arts master to be bloodthirsty. stop stOP STOOOOP. You're doing the exact thing that has sunk this game into the dirt: flavor-based design. You aren't helping anyone or making any valid points by saying "I think it would *sound* better if...." If that's your only real counter, then rename it yourself. You haven't at all addressed how a standardized life siphon mechanic would allow for a much greater secondary mechanic base and also give the Necromancer a new and powerful buff to invest into and juggle while in combat. Life siphon as utilized by the necro and all other classes right now is just healing. There is no depth to the current life siphon because the "mechanic" is just spaghetti code thrown on top of a skill that inflicts some arbitrary amount of damage. > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > Honestly to fix necros siphon they just need to get the numbers right plain and simple. Again, you're just asking for passive buffs to already-existing skills. You just want to heal more while dealing damage. That's not interesting for anyone because it changes nothing about the limited or finicky nature of the various life siphon skills (So what if Signet of Locusts full heals you when striking a foe? It's still a super boring skill and wouldn't be fair to anyone The issue with life siphon isn't just the fact that the mechanic is shallow spaghetti code; it's also related to how bland and sometimes unfair the life stealing skills themselves are). > > This game needs skills which reward positioning if it's ever going to stop being a tremendous joke. Ele fireball is also incredibly versatile if you don't just rely entirely on anet's sub-par tab targeting system. It's perfectly good for spamming points (especially if it's going to deal as much damage as this rework), and you can also free-aim it on yourself or in a general direction with decent accuracy (especially considering how 180 radius is a pretty huge hitbox). This re-work is an automatic upgrade to the damage capability of the original set-up once combined with the rest of the core DS rework. On top of all this, considering how life force is just extra HP separate from a necro's true HP bar, relying on a fireball to pull heavy hitting damage isn't as ridiculous as expecting the same from an 11k Elementalist. Face-tanking a fireball-shooting necro could be lethal, especially if that necro had instant mobility and CC such as with the two Dark Path charges and change to Doom. > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > hmmmmm no.... Having good positioning is not the same thing as a projectile vs projectile bases. It absolutely is if a certain projectile is more likely to hit based on player positioning when using it. > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > Necros generally always must have good positioning because once you engage you cant disengage unless some one peels for you or you kill your targets. "Good positioning" doesn't exist in GW2 because there are so many mechanics which just let players walk or teleport through hazards and close enormous distances without any effort or time at all. Just because necro doesn't necessarily do any of that doesn't mean that "good positioning" isn't also just a forced meme within the context of GW2 pvp. Necro simply spams from the maximum threshold of whatever weapon he is using--just like every other class. Going in any further means that it's time to pop some sort of defensive cooldown (which in the case of core necro would be DS or maybe spectral armor--which is effectively just more DS anyway). > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > What you are saying is that life blast should be ideally nerfed in speed and tracking just to force necros into having better positioning. Have you considered the fact that maybe the reason why this projectile is one of the best in the game is because it does not follow the ground (like most broken projectiles do) and it does not arc (like most broken projectiles do.) By broken i mean they miss 40%-70% of the time. Giving a projectile a fixed travel arc and speed means that those projectiles are "broken." What an absolute world we live in today, ladies and gentlemen. Tyria is truly a magical place with thoughts like these. > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > *Sorry but i cant agree with your statement.* The targeting system in the game is fine in fact its one of the best in an mmo. That is an opinion; not a point. > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > What determines projectile accuracy is its speed, arc (if it has one), and if it has a blast on hitting another object. ITs the reason you can side step over and over and dodge warrior arrows, thief arrows, ele fire balls at the right distance etc. Yes, thank you for the obvious note. Moreover, nobody with more than half a brain would attempt to free-cast ele fireballs at max range on moving targets. Thief and warrior arrows have much better tracking, however, nobody uses those abilities anyway since thief shortbow is entirely for teleporting and spamming 2 while warrior shortbow is entirely comprised of blowing every other skill on the bar (and then the one in berserk mode) before being forced to spam a few autos before swapping back to another weapon. The difference with ele fireball is that it's actually the main course once a lava font goes down. Because it is so vital for DPS, it's necessary to position one's self at a point at which it can hit (or CC foes so it hits easier). > > Fact of the mater is life blast has one of the best tracking codes in the game thats likely even better than Ranger longbow because life blast can actually turn and hit people. Its almost like its some sort of magical projectile o wait it is :U > > > Its utility as a ground-targeted, instantaneous blink which doesn't interrupt skills is far more utilitarian than the current version (even with the current version's slapped-on gimmicks). It can be used to keep on targets, back away or **avoid damage** (the last one is something that Necro really can't do adequately). The re-work I have complements the entire DS redesign far more adequately than a slow, auto-aimed, target-reliant teleport which removes a few boons which will only be slapped back on again. > > I'll give you this one the shroud 2 skill could be better but at its current state its not the worst skill in necros kit so i would prefer other things get looked at before it. > > > > > But Reaper's fear is a PBAoE. An instant, ranged, ground-targeted, AoE fear is already powerful enough at 1s, and again, complements the high damage capability of the core DS rework by allowing the Necro to get off or maintain pressure with one or two important abilities. > > Reapers aoe fear is shorter than doom and its not an instant fear either. IT actually has a cast time that can be interrupted. If necro had more access to fears in general i would agree with you but it does not. So having a single target fear that has a potentially longer duration is better imo. What it needs is ammo and it would be perfect. Reaper and Scourge give you access to a aoe fear and ranged aoe fear. Core does not need it in its kit too. > > > > > No more tacked-on conditions. It's just an arbitrary damage bonus (along with your random idea of lowering the cast-time). Considering that the attack is already a 5-target, 600 radius PBAoE, there is no reason why a half-brained necro couldn't use a Dark Path charge to make sure a single one landed adequately onto a certain target group. Given how huge the radius is, it'd even be very possible to start casting it, and then Dark Path behind a target as a means of evading, adding a little more confusion to the field, and still dealing massive damage (don't you realize how high the overall damage coefficient on Life Transfer is already? It's tremendous.). > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > Considering core is not defined as pure condition or pure power yes it needs a condition applied to it. WHY? You're not giving any reason for these claims? If it's not either one, then just adjusting damage coefficients would be absolutely enough (all you're asking for is a bland DPS increase anyway; don't try to make your suggestion seem thoughtful by saying "Oh, but it's POISON, so it's unique and interesting"). > @"ZDragon.3046" said: >IT does not need to be a strong condition but to fit the rest of the theme as well as almost every shroud 4 skill when looked at the elite specs it needs it. > You say its tremendous let me point out a few things. > Average power build it will do roughly 6k in a aoe if you finish the full channel. 3.5 seconds > Warriors can press 1 button and achive an aoe 6k or higher in not even a third the channel time > Guardian can also do this in one button maybe half the time with a weapon skill > Some of ele's skills can do this depending on the spec. > Engi can do this. in far less the time. I've said this before and I will have to say it again later (since this is all you keep going back to as an """argument"""), but just because "CLASS X" features the typical GW2 fare of unfair, brainless nonsense mechanics doesn't mean that the class which doesn't outright have them is "underpowered." > > Im not asking for much of a dps increase but it needs a condition to support people who want to play condition builds otherwise you just really dont use the skill & people on power builds the channel time should not be 3.5 seconds. For 3.5 seconds it should be doing much more ideally. Conditions are just damage. Condition Damage and Power are the exact same thing at the end of the day (otherwise we'd still have zerker meta instead of the viper meta), and stacking them on top of each other only makes the game worse. If a class needs damage, it will get damage, and directly modifying the skill coefficients is enough. Slapping arbitrary conditions onto random skills is just lazy, misguided and damaging. > > > > This game is already overly burdened with CC. The excessive CC makes PvP less enjoyable, and it serves a very limited purpose in PvE. The party-wide, outgoing damage increase provided by the re-worked version would always be welcome in all situations. It still leaves room for counter play in PvP while simultaneously increasing the threat factor of a good necromancer, and it also provides a meta-tier debuff in PvE which would constantly see rotation use. > > Bruh shakles has easy counter play in pvp you just take about 7 steps away from the necromancer and break the chain. I can promise you if you want to start talking cc reduction start looking every where but necromancer because its got on average 2 fears 1 from shroud skills 1 from staff 5. IF you count reaper then 1 from gs pull. Any other bonus fear comes from converts which can be totally rng when a person is boon spamming themselves. Dark Path re-work. Shackles would also be consistently viable in PvE (the place where its debuff would be most desired). > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > If you think the game has too many cc's tell that to warriors, mesmers, rangers, and thiefs because all these examples have loads more hard cc's than core necro does even when they are spec'ed to core. Not to mention fear is a soft cc. It can be broken by condi clense, ignored by resistance and stability, as well as broken by break stuns. Just because necro doesn't have as much CC as other classes doesn't mean GW2 has too much CC. > > > > All in all, these core DS changes provide a bigger DPS boost, increased mobility, easier-to-aim attacks and also a valuable party damage booster. There's really no fundamental downside here. > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > Any time you trade a fast non arcing projectile for a slow arcing one just so it can do some splash damage thats a massive down side. The residual pulsing AoE is a huge DPS boost and area denial. In PvE, fight in melee range. Engage and disengage with quick Dark Paths if you're having trouble. Setting up just one pusling AoE will provide a vital safety zone in which unprotected foes will hesitate to enter while the Necro continues to cast. > Not understanding that torment into immobilize is a design flaw is a down side. > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > Not wanting to give necros more base fear access, how is this not a down side. In the face of stability, teleport and immunity spam, more mobility is always better than more CC. Dark Path addresses this. The fact that you can't see that just shows how limited you are in thinking about these issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 I can't follow the proposal but there is one basic thing missing; if you are completely reworking the concept of core necro to be competitive, you forgot to tell us what the new concept is. You simply launched into a bunch of skill changes that seem at face value, more able to address some deficiencies ... but I don't entirely get that approach because clearly, that's not how Anet works ... or any other game dev. I don't even know why you think what you are proposing is better in a more competitive environment, other than you said so. I don't see any recognition that a concept supports key elements of unique designs, but also supports gaps and deficiencies that are necessary to ensure no class is THE answer to any competitive play problem. There isn't any explanation .... just a list of new skill ideas. I see lots of work, some cool ideas, an attempt to bandaid weaknesses, but I don't see an understanding of what the concept of the class is, and that's not a frivolity to be ignored; it means quite a bit to Anet and players. To be more constructive, your first line is: _Necromancers no longer gain life force from the deaths of ambient enemies._ Why would you do that? OK you replace it with this Soul Reap thing but ... the idea that necros gain LF from deaths is a key part of the concept of the class ... The only reason it would have to be changed is if it was a mechanic that didn't work ... but that's not the case. It does work and the way it works makes sense ... you get rewarded with shroud life from people dying. so what's the deal?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 > @"Swagg.9236" said: > stop stOP STOOOOP. You're doing the exact thing that has sunk this game into the dirt: flavor-based design. You aren't helping anyone or making any valid points by saying "I think it would *sound* better if...." If that's your only real counter, then rename it yourself. You haven't at all addressed how a standardized life siphon mechanic would allow for a much greater secondary mechanic base and also give the Necromancer a new and powerful buff to invest into and juggle while in combat. Life siphon as utilized by the necro and all other classes right now is just healing. There is no depth to the current life siphon because the "mechanic" is just spaghetti code thrown on top of a skill that inflicts some arbitrary amount of damage. Thats very hypocritical to say because you did the same thing when you made the first post lol. To say the whole point of people posting here is to voice their ideas and opinions to call me out and say that im not helping anyone by saying "It would be better if" when you basically wrote your whole original post ideally doing the same thing. * Im sorry if unlike you i dont want to change a whole profession when it does have some good things within it. You want to completely rework necro into an inaccurate mess. * Im pretty sure balancing is comparing one profession to another. Yet apparently thats not something worth doing in your opinion. * In your opinion its better to trade a bad projectile when the current one is one of the best in the game. * When you brought up your claim of too much cc i explained what would be a better solution pretty accurately and you gave me a "WELL SO" kind of answer back. * Even with dark path you took the change people are requesting for mostly a pvp situation and flipped it to pve because you likely dont know how the skill works. LOL IF YOU CANT LAND DARK PATH IN PVE you really got some problems going on. You even go on to say that necros should have a weaker projectile that encourages good positioning and when i bring up the fact that necro must always have good positioning because once the engage in a fight and commit they cannot easily leave that fight you come up and tell me **"Good positioning" doesn't exist in GW2"** Its clear you have not put any time into necro, possibly this game in general or at least you are pretending that you havent. I cant take some one who so blandly calls out one person for doing something when they hypocritically are doing the same thing. Im pretty sure i explained my reasoning for my responses 2 times over and im not going to do it again. And with that im done because you are just disrespectful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarrs.4831 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 I've read up to the Death Magic stuff and it all sounds pretty uninteresting. Almost everything removes play and counterplay. I'm gonna pass from there onwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagg.9236 Posted March 9, 2018 Author Share Posted March 9, 2018 > @"ZDragon.3046" said: > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > stop stOP STOOOOP. You're doing the exact thing that has sunk this game into the dirt: flavor-based design. You aren't helping anyone or making any valid points by saying "I think it would *sound* better if...." If that's your only real counter, then rename it yourself. You haven't at all addressed how a standardized life siphon mechanic would allow for a much greater secondary mechanic base and also give the Necromancer a new and powerful buff to invest into and juggle while in combat. Life siphon as utilized by the necro and all other classes right now is just healing. There is no depth to the current life siphon because the "mechanic" is just spaghetti code thrown on top of a skill that inflicts some arbitrary amount of damage. > > Thats very hypocritical to say because you did the same thing when you made the first post lol. To say the whole point of people posting here is to voice their ideas and opinions to call me out and say that im not helping anyone by saying "It would be better if" when you basically wrote your whole original post ideally doing the same thing. > > * Im sorry if unlike you i dont want to change a whole profession when it does have some good things within it. You want to completely rework necro into an inaccurate mess. > * Im pretty sure balancing is comparing one profession to another. Yet apparently thats not something worth doing in your opinion. > * In your opinion its better to trade a bad projectile when the current one is one of the best in the game. > * When you brought up your claim of too much cc i explained what would be a better solution pretty accurately and you gave me a "WELL SO" kind of answer back. > * Even with dark path you took the change people are requesting for mostly a pvp situation and flipped it to pve because you likely dont know how the skill works. LOL IF YOU CANT LAND DARK PATH IN PVE you really got some problems going on. > > You even go on to say that necros should have a weaker projectile that encourages good positioning and when i bring up the fact that necro must always have good positioning because once the engage in a fight and commit they cannot easily leave that fight you come up and tell me **"Good positioning" doesn't exist in GW2"** > > Its clear you have not put any time into necro, possibly this game in general or at least you are pretending that you havent. I cant take some one who so blandly calls out one person for doing something when they hypocritically are doing the same thing. Im pretty sure i explained my reasoning for my responses 2 times over and im not going to do it again. > > And with that im done because you are just disrespectful. > > For real, I'm legitimately sorry if I stepped over some lines, but it's just astonishingly exasperating to continuously encounter SO MANY people who just seemed so *damaged* (there really is no other word for it) by playing GW2 and thinking within it's design philosophies. Equating your opinion on naming conventions to my thorough reconstruction of necromancer's lacking aspects with respect to PvE (and to a lesser extent PvP) is your own flimsy stawman about nothing rather than my own hypocrisy. Don't compare a class' lack of quantitative party-support to what you think the word "bloodlust" means for a class' unrelated flavor. You just don't make any sense when you speak like that (and so many people who play and design this game all speak like that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killfil.3472 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Dear lord I want "Aura of the lich" so bad xD Edit : I Truly like what you've come up with. These changes would be a breath of fresh air. Although it would probably need a lot of time to balance all of this out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svarty.8019 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 > @"Swagg.9236" said: > TL;DR You clearly put a lot of effort into this, I want you to know that someone appreciates the work you've done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagg.9236 Posted March 12, 2018 Author Share Posted March 12, 2018 Added Soul Reaping changes (mostly related to complementing the Soulreap effect and the core shroud re-work). > @"Svarty.8019" said: > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > TL;DR > > You clearly put a lot of effort into this, I want you to know that someone appreciates the work you've done. > > @"killfil.3472" said: > Dear lord I want "Aura of the lich" so bad xD > > Edit : I Truly like what you've come up with. > These changes would be a breath of fresh air. > Although it would probably need a lot of time to balance all of this out... Given the way most of these kinds of threads go, I really do appreciate those words. > @"Sarrs.4831" said: > I've read up to the Death Magic stuff and it all sounds pretty uninteresting. Almost everything removes play and counterplay. > > I'm gonna pass from there onwards. Given that there is no additional stability or direct invulnerability, limited scripted movement and every trait is entirely focused on maintaining self-generated buffs, it's far more play-counterplay designed than anything else in GW2. It's entirely dependent on positioning and timing (on both ends: user and opponent) instead of relying on instant/passive, PvE-rotation-tier effects which allow players to walk through hazards without any sense of timing or thought (thus only promoting spamfests which lead into passive waiting until cooldowns start to cycle). You can opine as hard as you want, but you can't justify how a paradigm of traits as actively-juggled stat buffs built around non-DoT actives with a lot of positioning dependent effects is somehow less play-counterplay oriented than the typical GW2 PvP encounter (and that's considering how most of these re-works are oriented at giving necro a PvE role). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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